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02-26-2002, 11:18 AM
Predator is the BEST shaft there is! Anyone ever tried them?

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mark23
member: www.easypooltutor.com (http://www.easypooltutor.com)

02-26-2002, 01:01 PM
Alot of people have tried or use Predator. But no, they are not necessarily the best shaft there is. It's all in your head.

cheesemouse
02-26-2002, 01:14 PM
predator: any animal that lives by preying on other animals. The cheesemouse wishes the name was marauder or something less scarey /ccboard/images/icons/shocked.gif.
To many predators in pool halls. Good shaft though /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

02-26-2002, 01:44 PM
Yes, and I don't particularly like them. I really hate the way they feel. And the low deflection feature isn't something that I really get benefit from. I am used to compensating for deflection.

And deflection is only one of the variables that is introduced when english is used. There is also curve, and throw. If I miss a shot when using english, deflection is almost never the reason that I missed it. I will miss it because it throws more or less than I expected (and that can change as conditions change, or as different equipment is used), or because it will curve a bit more or less than I expected (relevant in some shots where the cue ball is struck off center, even if the cue is angled just a little bit; this can also change as conditions or equipment changes). Or I might miss it just because it is a hard shot.

Although I do like the Predator break cue. That's the best break cue I've ever found, by far.

Doctor_D
02-26-2002, 06:12 PM
I have Four (4) Predator shafts, two for each of my Meucci SE12s, as well as two (2) Predator BK Break Cues. I am most pleased with their performance.

Dr. D.

Tom_In_Cincy
02-26-2002, 06:51 PM
Everyone is entitled to an opinion..
I played with a predator shaft on my Meucci for about 4 months and finally sold it. I just could not make it adjust to my 30+year old game. Retired my Meucci and purchased a Joss and am now playing more consistant than ever.

Rod
02-26-2002, 08:32 PM
Yes I have Mark. Never bought one though. I played with
their first series of their shafts. You could see every
splice and had way to much flex for me. I played with
the later series on a Predator cue and it felt pretty
good, but I never noticed any change, as in aiming etc.
Number one, far to expensive for a replacement shaft that
does nothing better than the stock shaft. Number 2, it's
too small in diameter for me.

02-26-2002, 10:53 PM
But still Predator is the BEST!

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mark23
member: www.easypooltutor.com (http://www.easypooltutor.com)

02-27-2002, 03:15 AM
Yeah it must be best at something, the way everyone talks about it. 21st century marketing, I'd say.

(Yep, I've tried their shaft, they are good, but expensive)

Weelie <- I don't think anything is universally the best, cut this crap!

Tom_In_Cincy
02-27-2002, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Doctor_D:</font><hr> I have Four (4) Predator shafts, two for each of my Meucci SE12s, as well as two (2) Predator BK Break Cues. I am most pleased with their performance.
Dr. D.<hr></blockquote>

Dr. D.

Deflection of the shaft and squirt of the cue ball are only reduced with the Predator, not eliminated. All cues have deflection characteristics that are unique to the shaft. Either you learn how to compensate or you cannot advance to the next skill level. With the Predator, the amount of compensation is reduced, but it is still there.
I am sure your coach has you practice inside and outside english for cut shots and position. These shots are the most difficult in the game (IMO). You have to learn how much to compensate for the squirt of the cueball and then practice this for many types of shots.
I believe the Predator is like anyother cue, in that you have to learn to compensate.
Hence, IMO, it is no different than any Cue..
To determine how much you have to compensate for a long table shot, I have a drill on my website to help you make this determination http://www.geocities.com/cincytom314/
Please select "Drills and Template" section and it is Drill #5

02-27-2002, 11:34 AM
The Predator shafts are shaft-to-shaft very consistent. Yes the deflection is reduced too but I'd say the consistency is the key tho their marketablity. You just can't find outstanding shaftwood like you once could, and the splicing gives each shaft "playing similiarity"...sid

cheesemouse
02-27-2002, 12:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SidVicious:</font><hr> The Predator shafts are shaft-to-shaft very consistent. Yes the deflection is reduced too but I'd say the consistency is the key tho their marketablity. You just can't find outstanding shaftwood like you once could, and the splicing gives each shaft "playing similiarity"...sid <hr></blockquote>

This is so true...my dog chewed my Predator shaft in two (yes, he's still alive) I had it replaced. The new shaft required hardly any adjusting too at all. That is a great selling point if you know your going to play this game the rest of your life.

Tom_In_Cincy
02-27-2002, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SidVicious:</font><hr> The Predator shafts are shaft-to-shaft very consistent. Yes the deflection is reduced too but I'd say the consistency is the key tho their marketablity. You just can't find outstanding shaftwood like you once could, and the splicing gives each shaft "playing similiarity"...sid <hr></blockquote>

Predator shafts are not as consistant as you might think. Although, I do agree that they are "more" consistant than the others.

phil in sofla
02-28-2002, 11:11 PM
Tom, I did that test shot when you sent it to me, and my Predator needed no adjustment to the line whatever with maximum center left or right.

I had just gotten the deflection on my original shaft fairly well calibrated when I got the Predator two Christmases back. Now I shoot almost all shots with no adjustments for deflection from English, except the minor line difference of aiming to the same side of the pocket as the English I'm using. Never have to aim actually outside the pocket to significantly over- or under-cut the ball as I did with the stock shaft.

Now, I recently relearned the kick-cut of a ball on the rail, when you're straight in on it, with this shaft. Either deflection or a masse action is involved, or both, as I aim about 1/8th of the object ball, and hit with low inside English, missing the object ball, hitting the rail, and kicking it in with the English. While I don't deny the shaft has some deflection, I use that same stroke in other settings without adjusting the line.

So, contrary to the old song, maybe 97% WILL do?

Fred Agnir
03-01-2002, 08:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Mike:</font><hr>
And deflection is only one of the variables that is introduced when english is used. There is also curve, and throw. If I miss a shot when using english, deflection is almost never the reason that I missed it. I will miss it because it throws more or less than I expected <hr></blockquote>

Although I agree with everything else you said, I personally think that throw, specifically spin-induced throw is the lowest of compensation considerations. IMO, squirt is several feet above spin-induced throw, with swerve a few feet above squirt.

I also think that "missing by throw" either is an excuse (not that you're using it thusly) or a misinterpretation of "missing by swerve." I'd say 9 out of 10 people who think they're missing because of spin-throw are actually missing because of swerve.

Fred &lt;~~~ IMO, of course

03-01-2002, 02:46 PM
I agree with you on spin induced throw. It is usually the least significant variable. Although it depends a lot on the shot, in terms of the speed of the cue ball, and the thickness of the cut. An almost straight in shot, with two tips of english, hit at a slow speed, will throw quite a bit.

But I think your point was discussing the relationship between the significance of the different variables involved in using english. I agree that spin-induced throw usually is the least significant variable.

My point was that for me, playing hours every day, always with the same high-quality cue, deflection isn't much of an issue. I know how much my cue and it's shafts deflect. So usually when I miss a shot where I am using english, it isn't because I didn't know how to compensate for deflection. That, coupled with the fact that I DESPISE how the Predator shaft feels, makes it not a good choice for me.

Fred Agnir
03-01-2002, 03:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Mike:</font><hr> An almost straight in shot, with two tips of english, hit at a slow speed, will throw quite a bit. <hr></blockquote>

Here's a challenge shot:

Start out with a dead straight shot. Hit the cueball with with as much spin as you'd like with what ever speed you'd like such that the cueball *remains dead still and spinning*. I say the object ball still goes in, and that cueball spin-induced throw is almost negligible for this shot. Set it up and see what you get.

Fred

03-01-2002, 03:15 PM
I've done that lots of times. It depends on the conditions of the balls. But usually, it will throw a lot.

But I realized also that we may be talking about different shots. By saying "it still goes in", that can depend a alot on how the shot is set up. If the shot is set up 7 feet from the pocket, "it still goes in" isn't very likely. If the shot it set up a foot from the pocket, "it still goes in" is probably very likely.

It's hard to compare these things in posts over the Internet, because we don't always have a common standard for things like "a lot", "a little", "some", "it still goes in", etc. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

03-01-2002, 04:05 PM
I thought about this some more, and believe that this is HIGHLY dependant on conditions.

At one extreme, you have a brand new set of Aramith Super Pro's, just out of the box and spotlessly clean.

At the other extreme, you have a cheap set of plastic balls, with french fry grease and dried beer all over them. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

I think we could agree that those two would react very differently.

SPetty
03-01-2002, 04:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Here's a challenge shot:

Start out with a dead straight shot. Hit the cueball with with as much spin as you'd like with what ever speed you'd like such that the cueball *remains dead still and spinning*. I say the object ball still goes in, and that cueball spin-induced throw is almost negligible for this shot. Set it up and see what you get.

Fred <hr></blockquote>

Hi Fred,

I know people who believe that spin-induced throw can be rather substantial. The way the challenge is laid out, it sounds like you believe it is minimal. Is that true? I believe that I've seen the object ball throw about four inches over six feet.

I'm hoping you can explain, because I generally understand your explanations. What is it that's happening if it's not spin-induced throw? Although I haven't tried the challenge shot described, I would think that it would throw quite a bit, but the *tone* of your challenge makes me think that you don't think it will throw very much, if at all.

Is there something special about the cue ball "dead still and spinning" aspect of the challenge? Is spin-induced throw more effective on a slight cut shot than on a straight in shot?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

03-01-2002, 04:55 PM
The "dead still and spinning" aspect ensures that the cueball hit the object ball exactly center. So any deviation from straight in would be because of the throw, not because of hitting a contact point on the object ball off of center.

TonyM
03-02-2002, 02:39 AM
How much the object ball will throw in this case (angle not distance) is going to be based on the speed of the shot and the surface condition of the balls. High speeds will cause minimal throw, and dirty scuffed balls will cause mucho throw. Waxed polished balls might not throw at all!

On a 12' Snooker table, if I try this shot with the blue ball (on its spot and aimed at either corner) then I would expect to always miss the pot. By how much would be determined by the speed. High speed, It might rattle the pocket. Slow speed and it might miss by a full 6"!

Of course a stop shot with maximum side spin is the worst case scenario for throw. Normal cut shots with a bit of follow or draw throw very little (except at very slow speeds).

Tony

Tom_In_Cincy
03-02-2002, 11:14 AM
Phil,

For a cue ball to be able to travel from the head spot on a straight line to the middle of the endrail with extreme left or right english, is extremely impressive.

03-02-2002, 02:03 PM
Tom In Cincy wrote:
&gt;For a cue ball to be able to travel from the head spot on a straight line to the middle of the endrail with extreme left or right english, is extremely impressive. &lt;

You can do this easily with any cue, Tom. Just use backhand English. Set up a straight shot from the headspot through the footspot (it helps to set a piece of chalk on the center of the end rail). Keep your bridge hand stable and create right or left English at the equator by moving your back hand left or right. Hit through the ball at that odd angle - the ball will go right over the center of the footspot to the center of the rail, then rebound left or right. There will be no deflection !

phil in sofla
03-03-2002, 06:16 PM
Tom, I agree, and that's exactly what happened, to within the limits of your exercise. That is, maybe, if the deflection were entirely offset by a curve, after the deflection, the cue ball could get to the aim point even though it really did deflect originally.

I didn't see any sign of that, however, and I think, instead, that test showed a very low, to near vanishing, deflection from the Predator shaft.

Rod
03-03-2002, 06:57 PM
Tom I have used the same test but with 3 1\4" between the balls, or 3/8" to each side of the balls. All I can say is that I can fire the c/b with extreme side, or slow it up a little and hit before the side pocket. I have tightened it up to 5/16" on each side with good results. It makes 3 1/2" look like a drive through. I'm sure after all these years
and sometimes using BHE, there is probably some adjustment to my aim, but none the less if one gets results, IMO thats all that matters. Another thought is if I can't shoot thru there, how can I expect to make a ball where the tolerance is much tighter?

Fred Agnir
03-04-2002, 08:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SPetty:</font><hr> Hi Fred,

I know people who believe that spin-induced throw can be rather substantial. The way the challenge is laid out, it sounds like you believe it is minimal. Is that true? I believe that I've seen the object ball throw about four inches over six feet.<hr></blockquote>

I believe that spin-induced throw is overated, and that most people confuse misses caused by swerve as misses caused by spin-induced throw. If you shoot the shot that I suggested, then a dead spinning cueball will give an indication of just how much spin-induced throw there is without too much confusion with swerve or squirt. It's minimal, or at least a lot less than people claim. Especially with clean balls, or even balls that aren't so clean (like my set). The "challenge shot" is more of a jolt of reality than anything else.

Fred &lt;~~~ shoots this shot every day to see if the world has changed