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View Full Version : How much sh!t do I give "Anthony"?



Sid_Vicious
08-22-2008, 03:49 PM
Ok it has been long enough, I played this so-salled friend and player, let's call him Anthony for "maybe" a ficticious name. He and I'd bounced 3-5 hundred trust-wagers over the years, air money if you will, and each payed off afterwards in short order, since Click's Skillman in Dallas was both out home turf for many, many years. "Anthony" and I played one night, he let himself get stuck "6 Jackon's", asked to play for double and was let out with half that eventual bet, $300. "Anthony" lost, making the money owed 900.

After that event, "Anthony" disappeared like a ghost for 4 years, only to show up recently with a reply to me privately "I'll take care of you, don't worry." That was all I needed from a friend so I backed off in respect of "Anthony" for his troublesome reasons of not having the cash at that moment. Since then after the 4 year disappearance, "Anthony" has been accepted back by his ethnic friends as WELCOME, nothing of any manner even suggested by "Anthony" far to me as a payment plan since then, except the under the breath "I'll take care of you, don't worry." I feel like a fool everytime I see "Anthony" playing others there at Click's on Skillman for cash, all the time I sit quietly trying to keep the house peacefull without a big scene of confrontation, having said to me SID VICIOUS, by others, "If you play Sid, you don't have to pay."

Is it time for me to badger and haunt "Anthony"??? Remember that not only did I give "Anthony" the trustworthy time to get to me over those lost 4 years of being a ghost, while at the same time I KNEW "Anthony" still played in south Dallas,,,,to settle a piddlyh bet as "friends", "Anthony" is now back "in-house" for months, still gambling, all the while I trusted his, "I'll take care of you, don't worry."

I know that this ain't worth an all and all fight, but I am beggining to get pissed! sid

How much sh!t do I give "Anthony"? I want my money from my friend, and that's the plain truth...Sid Vicious

Deeman3
08-22-2008, 03:57 PM
I would hound him like Ann Coulter on Obama! Relentlessly... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

skin
08-22-2008, 04:10 PM
I used to play at a Clicks on Skillman back in the 70s. Good to know it is still there if it the same place.

We used to call what you are describing as being "fingered". It happens. Live and learn. Almost nobody, even a best friend, will pay if they lose if you give them an out like paying you later.

Don't play your frineds for money. When you play otherwise, make them show the cash before you play and pay at 3 games ahead. For freeze out, the money has to be put up before play to a trustworthy second party.

Sid_Vicious
08-22-2008, 04:26 PM
"When you play otherwise, make them show the cash before"

My new religion, Thanks. sid

SpiderMan
08-22-2008, 04:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to play at a Clicks on Skillman back in the 70s. Good to know it is still there if it the same place.

</div></div>

Can't be the same place. Until the very late 70s, there was only one Clicks in the entire world. It was located in European Crossroads shopping center, near Bachman Lake in West Dallas. Dick Lane was the manager. Actually, I thought I remembered you saying you were from that part of town. Didn't you used to play at the Mickey Finn's at Northwest and Marsh?

The Skillman Road Click's opened around 1988 or 89, in what was formerly a "Black-Eyed Pea" restaurant. That sticks in my mind because I used to eat there.

The hot place to play on Skillman in the '70s was also a Mickey Finn's. I think it was on the NE corner of Skillman and Abrams. I played in a qualifier for the 8-Ball nationals there in '79. Went 2 and out. But, maybe that's the place you're remembering.

Are you still in the area?

SpiderMan

Sid_Vicious
08-22-2008, 04:41 PM
In all due resect Spiderman, this is a thread about a jerk owing money. Semantics of the history of Click's is secondary. You and me...we played all of the DFW places, D-Lane top level. I purely want the answer to my qyestion, "Do I hammer the guy while he plays others for cash in our home house?....sid

skin
08-22-2008, 04:45 PM
near Bachman Lake in West Dallas.
++++++++++

Bachman Lake was North Dallas, not West Dallas (Oak Cliff, etc.) when I lived growing up there.

Now that I think about it, the Clicks I played at was near the intersection of Greenville Ave. and Mockingbird Lane, right next to the Losers Club where BB King used to play once each year for free, a tribute to where he got started the word was. Clicks became a Mickey Finn's during that time, now that I think about it. So, probably not the same place as the original poster is talking about.

SpiderMan
08-22-2008, 04:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all due resect Spiderman, this is a thread about a jerk owing money. Semantics of the history of Click's is secondary. You and me...we played all of the DFW places, D-Lane top level. I purely want the answer to my qyestion, "Do I hammer the guy while he plays others for cash in our home house?....sid </div></div>

I'd say be always visible, in case the guy has any shame or a decent bone in his body. You've been very absent lately, and it makes it look as if you've conceded. Remember, this is your house as much as his. Let him be the one that's uncomfortable.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
08-22-2008, 04:48 PM
Where are you now?

BTW, we always called Oak Cliff "South Dallas". Guess it depends on where you're from.

SpiderMan

skin
08-22-2008, 04:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are you now?

BTW, we always called Oak Cliff "South Dallas". Guess it depends on where you're from.

Spide rMan </div></div>

East Dallas. Lakewood.

av84fun
08-22-2008, 04:57 PM
Easy. Just get in a match with him...for double the amount he owes you. Don't post...just play...and here's the fun part.

Put on the lemon...lose intentionally (but disguise it well).

Now, just air barrel him by telling him that he made you wait 5 years and now it's his turn!!!

Don't get mad...get even!

(-:

JoeW
08-22-2008, 05:17 PM
I would say, "If I do not see something within a week I will have to ask you in public because other people also know about this." Then I would ask in public. Like any business, there needs to be standards, yours and the one he sets for himself.

Rich R.
08-22-2008, 05:31 PM
Sid, I think you've waited long enough.

When he is trying to make a wager with someone else, and he takes money out of his pocket to post up, go over and ask if he has your money yet. Let the other player know you have been waiting for your money for years.
Get the word out that he owes you money for a long time and he is bad action.
In other words, knock his action in the most serious way you can.
If he can't pay you, a friend, he shouldn't be playing anyone else.

People shouldn't gamble with money they can't afford to lose.

Vapros
08-22-2008, 08:05 PM
Go and talk privately to this guy. Give him ten days, after which you will have your money, or his name becomes 'Welsh', and you will follow him around and tell the world about him. He's not entitled to any more consideration than that. Four years!

However, be sure to be prepared for whatever response he might make. He might be outraged that you would do such a thing. But who cares?

av84fun
08-22-2008, 10:23 PM
Sid, the bottom line IMHO..is that if you don't post, then you lose all foundation to complain.

Hey, if it's just a few bucks, then I don't mind finding out that a guy is a cheat. I would just figure it was a small price to pay for important information.

But for a sum that grinds you as much as this episode, I gotta just "tell it like it is" and say that you didn't post and the outcome of that decision makes it just as much your fault as his.

It is just unwise to "trust" gambler pool players and those who don't post kinda deserve whatever they get.

Just IMHO.

Regards,
Jim

sack316
08-23-2008, 01:06 AM
I'd just rail his matches anytime I see him, making sure he knew I was right there. If he loses see if he pays, and ask him nicely if he has yours too. If he wins, see if he wants to pay at least some of what he owes you to work it down. You know, just kinda be an ass about it without really being an ass about it. Worse comes to worse and nothing ever happens, I'd so just kill his action anytime anywhere I could.

That or slyly set up a good doubles match or backing situation in which yourself and others in on it can take it back.

OR, you can do as I've done before and "sell" his debt to someone else who may not be as understanding as I am with a friend.

Sack

Bambu
08-23-2008, 09:48 AM
The guy has alot of balls playing for money where you hang out, while he still owes you. Rich called it right, just kill his action. By just trying to expose him as a deadbeat, he will have to either pay you, or play somewhere else. And dont feel guilty about it, hes not a true friend.

sack316
08-23-2008, 10:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hes not a true friend. </div></div>

I think that is probably the bottom line here. He chose to not respect or value your "friendship", I see no reason why you should tread lightly out of respect for his. When he wants to act and behave as a friend, then you may feel free to do the same. Until then he's just another deadbeat that owes.

Sack

av84fun
08-23-2008, 12:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd just rail his matches anytime I see him, making sure he knew I was right there. If he loses see if he pays, and ask him nicely if he has yours too. If he wins, see if he wants to pay at least some of what he owes you to work it down. You know, just kinda be an ass about it without really being an ass about it. Worse comes to worse and nothing ever happens, I'd so just kill his action anytime anywhere I could.

That or slyly set up a good doubles match or backing situation in which yourself and others in on it can take it back.

OR, you can do as I've done before and "sell" his debt to someone else who may not be as understanding as I am with a friend.

Sack </div></div>

Hi Sack,

Bottom line, No post, no play. If the cash had been posted, this thread would not exist.

End of story.

Whenever I play for anything other than chump change, I never even discuss posting. I just automatically pull out the cash and put it up on the light when the opponent is watching.

I've never once had an opponent say a word...they just post too. No problem.

(-:
Jim

wolfdancer
08-23-2008, 01:31 PM
there's a name for playing for $$ when you don't have the cash to pay...something like "firing an air barrel"
It reminds me of an old Lee Trevino story. when they asked him about the pressure when playing for the championship and the big $$ that goes with it, he said " Pressure is when you are playing for $10, and you only got $5"
I think the old timers used to put the cash "on the wire"...on the score beads.
I still got a $100 coming from 1989...it's beginning to look like I'll never collect, since the other guy moved back to the Philippines (who moves back to the Philippines?)

Sid_Vicious
08-23-2008, 03:22 PM
I fully understand playing on air and it's poor judgement. My mistake was in letting the game get as steep and not stopping without some serious cash from the player whom I deemed as a friend, following several bouts in the past of both of us paying latter. It never got deeper that 3-4 hundred, but this time it hit near the century mark, and if had to do again...I'd lost that last set on purpose to "keep my fish."

I'll begin to close with this admission, "I'll never shoot pool for money without cash in the hole, well...for nickels and dimes maybe, BUT not with fools still owing me from before, even measely dollars." I make good my debts, but obviously there are a lot of low-lifes around who won't.

Short of a physical altercation, I am set to pose some very strong question next time I see this guy. As stupid as it sounds, I still feel the man isn't a total bum on this debt. I simply don't like feeling like a bigger fool by watching debtors continue to gamble in front of me, and wondering if my Vicious side should be presented. Pool-life is a learning experience, but it bothers me that I ran with someone I called a friend, to only find that even he has a cheap side. I am sure that I sound silly by saying that...sid

wolfdancer
08-23-2008, 04:02 PM
Sid, I'd be pi**ed to, to
A...get stiffed by a friend
B.. to see the guy matching up with others.
cap the mf /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

dg-in-centralpa
08-23-2008, 04:03 PM
Sid,
There are no friends when it comes to money. I would give him two days otherwise I'd call Don Corleone.

DG

sack316
08-23-2008, 05:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: av84fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hi Sack,

Bottom line, No post, no play. If the cash had been posted, this thread would not exist.

End of story.

</div></div>

I think that's pretty well stating the obvious, and is something most any of us have learned over time (and usually the hard way). But the purposes of Sid's post is what to do in this situation now, and telling him what shoulda been done those years ago ain't gonna get much done. I won't play for serious money without seeing it either from my opponent or someone else willing to pay it. Unfortunately Sid's situation is well beyond that moment, and I'm sure he learned his lesson. The task at hand is how to handle this situation in present time.

Sack

Deeman3
08-25-2008, 07:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fully understand playing on air and it's poor judgement. My mistake was in letting the game get as steep and not stopping without some serious cash from the player whom I deemed as a friend, following several bouts in the past of both of us paying latter. It never got deeper that 3-4 hundred, but this time it hit near the century mark, and if had to do again...I'd lost that last set on purpose to "keep my fish."

I'll begin to close with this admission, "I'll never shoot pool for money without cash in the hole, well...for nickels and dimes maybe, BUT not with fools still owing me from before, even measely dollars." I make good my debts, but obviously there are a lot of low-lifes around who won't.

Short of a physical altercation, I am set to pose some very strong question next time I see this guy. As stupid as it sounds, I still feel the man isn't a total bum on this debt. I simply don't like feeling like a bigger fool by watching debtors continue to gamble in front of me, and wondering if my Vicious side should be presented. Pool-life is a learning experience, but it bothers me that I ran with someone I called a friend, to only find that even he has a cheap side. I am sure that I sound silly by saying that...sid </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Sid,

There are non of us breathing that have played this game for serious money that have not been shafted in some way, many times. AV is right, the only way to prevent it is to post up. I always do with strangers but, of course, would not with many I play on a regular basis. In the end, we all just let it go and live and learn.

You'll probably do youself a favor by letting go and just never playing the guy again. I would give him hell once and go on. This crap can eat at you and life is just too short for that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

Sid_Vicious
09-01-2008, 12:02 AM
I made my slow, respectfull college attempt at Anthony tonight, second time since Anthony dissapeared for 2 years, when there was ANY kind of plan for my cash at all, he gave me some limp example NOT even relating to the actual $900 he really owed me, plus the a-hole he was playing(gamblimg with) who also owed me small cash, Kent whom "owes-SID", barked, "I don't owe you anything!" I don't mean to be racist, but both of these black guys are just one of two players who owes me money here in Dallas FT Worth area. I only have one white guy who still owes me cash over the two decades, and he always acknowledges that fact, no excuses.

I was THAT close to using the N-word, REALLY close! and I mean that because I'll call any white guy the same, even worse, after the bullsh!t

I won't tell you what to actually do if and when you come here to Dallas, No. or central Dallaas, and you find yourself against a pudgy, well...fat black guy calling hibself Anthony, wearing a baseball cap, or a thin black fella with no hair, both about 35, make those bastards post! I never thought one(Anthony) but both he and Kent, would have such a crap ending to my knowing them for so long. They're both no-players when it comes down to it, except for playing with no integrity. SID VIVCIOUS

Pics are available for both of these wiesels upon request.

JJFSTAR
09-01-2008, 01:38 AM
Well sid you are probably going to get some comments in this thread cest la vie. You aren’t going to get your $900 and I am not going to get my $160 from Keith. So I am in kind of the same boat that you are here is my plan and it has worked out well. I have $160 credit from him now and from now on I will say to him show me the money and or drop it into the pocket or have a mediator. Play him for it!!! Loose your first $100 or two. Put it out of your mind that you will ever attain your $900 that you are due just use that as leverage against him.

Just put it out of you mind that the normal rules of society are still in effect. In his mind I can guarantee that they are not so yes IMHO if you want your money you will have to win it again. However there is a strong possibility that he will view this as “credit”.

Good luck sounds like you have your work cut out for you.

Rich R.
09-01-2008, 06:44 AM
Sid, at this point, other than resorting to violence, the only thing you can do is make it publicly known that these guys don't pay their debts. If you see them playing, make sure their opponent knows they aren't good for the money. Knock their action the best you can. It is the only leverage you have.

BTW, resorting to violence isn't worth it and I also don't recommend bringing up the "N" word, as it will not help to make things better. It never does.

Bambu
09-01-2008, 07:34 AM
Thats true. The guy can even take the whole N thing, and turn it around on you. Next thing you know, YOU will have the bad rep at the pool room(and still no money).

Once the amount youre playing for goes over a hundred or two, you cant just assume he has that kind of cash on him(especially on double or nothing). On a bet like that its money up, or expect the debt to drag on. Time to either get tough, or chalk it up as your mistake and forget about it.

What gets me though, is the guy who appeased you for 20 years, just by acknowledging his debt. The only way that should happen, is if he at least tried to pay you in dribs and drabs throughout the years. Sucking up just doesnt cut it.

Sid_Vicious
09-01-2008, 04:40 PM
I appreciate the placidity in the replies. Basically I'd watched from the sidelines as the guy continued to gamble after his return to this PH following the immediate disappearance after the loss. It just became a festering within me, and last night I vented sort of loudly once things heated up so that about anyone around who could hear, and most everyone there already knew the whole deal which was why I said to the guy, "You make me look like a fool when you continue to gamble to in front of me!" This is a small, regular gathering as usual on Sundays, so to me the events last evening accomplished something. The one thing I was a ashamed of in the aftermath was allowing myself to get that out of control enough to even think of using that wrong word, but yet I didn't say the word, at least I did find common sence at the right time.

As far as playing him and winning it back,,,I did that with others in the house for years and the whole gamble didn't work for my game, it just ain't the same playing on a debt-tab instead of real money, so I quit letting myself get in that position. I don't gamble with people already owing me, and I am sticking to it.

I don't know what jabs I may give hime in the future but you can be certain that the "eye of the hurricane" has passed from me with last night's event. I made it clear, concise and vocally known. Am I forgetting the debt? Hell No! I have learned some things though, 1. I'll never, ever get that close to violence again over simple money. 2. I won't play anyone anymore without posting cash. 3. This guy is NOT my friend. 4. I have a side of me which I need to control better(see 1.) 5. Most of those regulars I've known for years apparently feel no antimosity at the guy for coming back and being ballsy gambling like it never happened. "There is no honor among thieves."

I will apologize to anyone here who might have been offended that I even thought of calling someone the N-word, you will find that I am about as non-bigoted a person as you'll ever know. I could have left that admission of that word in my mind entirely from the original post, but it was a reality so I told all of the truth, even "my bad.

I have found some level of personal closure by having that encounter last night after sitting quietly all these days of seeing the guy gamble with others, and that's a good thing for the future. You can only be a quiet sheep but for just so long, and then it's time to "do it for your own self-esteem".

I want to thank everyone for reading all of this silliness, which it is. I hope that it's maybe been informative to anyone entering into any kind of money-pool, POST UP, simple as that.
..sid~~~thankful he held back on "that word", the guy's bigger and younger, but Sid was madder, besides the word from anyone is totally out of line, and just wrong, no matter of the circumstance

Sid_Vicious
09-01-2008, 04:51 PM
Just that kind of thing did happen in this PH years back. One quiet afternoon, a gent came in the place, walked directly to a player who owed the wrong guy money, and cold cocked him, then walked out to never be seen again. I guess the front teeth of the owe'r was enough satisfaction to the man he owed money to. Supposedly they could hear "the pop" at the far end of the PH. Who know's, the debt might have been paid after that reality check...sid

Rich R.
09-01-2008, 07:16 PM
Sid, I think you have been more than reserved in this situation, waiting over two years.
If nothing else, you have learned some valuable lessons that will serve you well in the future.

Sid_Vicious
09-01-2008, 08:10 PM
Did you win the whole $160 at one whack from Keith, or over time? Has Keith paid you during past losses or has the debt stacked up? Just curious...sid

Sid_Vicious
09-01-2008, 08:23 PM
Rich...You'd think so about waiting the 2 years plus. Hell I waited for half that time before getting openly vocal with the "friends" in the PH that he'd obviously dodged me after his loss to me. Seriously, I feel "Anthony" was embarrassed to lose this kind of cash to "Sid." Oh well.

First time I actually saw him back at Skillman, I waited to make myself "in-face present", then just asked "Anthony" about his absence, did not pose the 900 dollar question first. You'd think if the guy had any balls he'd come over and gotten me on the side first, NOT! HMMM!

I really thought the guy was honest to a basic degree, besides this was "Anthony's" home turf for small cash...I wasn't that much of a daily troller like him. Surprised the hell out of me. THEN I did find he was a south Dallas player about a year after my not seeing him, South Dallas isn't a place to go barking for his money for my white ass. So here we are today, back at the home PH.

I could easily start a new thread about, "What makes cheap people out of normally honest people." Is the answer that pool debts are different from the other honest monies, or is the PH group who don't pay, totally bums in real life as well? Are we in a low life sport, and that's the way it is? If so, then I totally understand why billiards get the bad rep, it isn't due to nastalga, it is truth. I always paid all of my losses, and I am proud of that fact. Some people just don't care...sid

JJFSTAR
09-02-2008, 10:07 AM
It stacked up quickly and I wised up and figured out he wasnt going to pay me. Yea I have learned some things to you and me both.