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sack316
09-04-2008, 09:58 PM
it was important a week ago, so I figured it must have relevance now as well?

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/04/politics/horserace/entry4417245.shtml

37.2 Million watched Palin's speech last night. That would be roughly 1.1 million less than watched Obama. Not too shabby for the VP speech, especially considering it was shown on four less networks than Obama's was. Of note, that would be 13.2 million more than tuned in to hear what Biden had to say.

Perhaps of more relevance to some recent posts here, 19.5 million women tuned in for the speech. If they are not gonna be "fooled into voting this ticket" they sure are opening their ears to it, at least.

Oddly, more hispanic viewers tuned into this speech as well. That is especially amazing considering Univision and Telemundo didn't carry it.

Who knows if this will translate into votes... but she damn sure has served her purpose of getting the campaign more attention. Obama is no longer the only phenom in the race. She's still a big gamble, I think... but I feel a necessary one as someone like Romney, Lieberman, Rudy, or whoever would have never garnered this kind of attention. The only thing is that now that the eyes are ears are upon you, you have to so something to keep 'em listening. She is quite unlikely to be the best pick for vice president, but she definitely was the best pick for the campaign.



Sack

Gayle in MD
09-04-2008, 10:51 PM
Here are a few more statistics for you,

The latest numbers for the Obama speech were over forty million.

CNN got the most angry e-mails from women from both parties, about her, the morning after her speech, EVER.

Curiosity doesn't win elections. I noticed lots of empty seats during the Republican convention. Sara will excite the base. That's all.

Gayle in Md.

sack316
09-05-2008, 02:53 AM
So I don't get it. Are you now saying that numbers such as rating are not important? Or are you saying they are only something to be exctied about in the case of Obama? Because last week in a few of your posts you made the Olympic Opening ceremony comparison... almost as seemingly a benchmark of sorts. Palin as well eclipsed that mark, and now it's no biggie?

I went looking for the forty million mark for Obama, actually couldn't find that mentioned. But, in my searching of news stories for this, I did manage to come across other estimates of Palin's speech topping the 40 million mark (forbes has one such story, among several others). *** update*** found the difference. The neilsen numbers don't include PBS, so it is unknown-- yet possible-- that either or both candidates topped the 40 million mark. I see a lot of stories on Palin jumping the hurdle, took more digging to find Obama's but couldn't imagine him not topping that as well. It does seem up for debate now, though, as far as who had more viewership. I would venture a guess that Obama still had more viewers overall... but Palin even coming close while being broadcast on fewer networks is quite an accomplishment.

As far as CNN's angry email thing, couldn't find anything on that. Care to share a source? I mean I am sure there were some. I'm sure there were plenty. Just something that is bound to be with a neck and neck campaign with people from each side standing firmly behind their candidate and firmly opposed to the other. But to say the most EVER, well I just don't know about that. Unless you are using clever wording to say they got the most angry emails about Palin ever (in which case ever would consist of like ten days now), but phrasing it in such a way it sounds as if it is a total public outrage.

You are correct though. Curiosity does not win elections. And that's what a lot of this buzz about Palin is. And so is Obama. They are both phenoms... new fresh faces to most of the public, and they are eating it up. And either or both could wind up just being more of a fad than anything. But if Palin will only excite the base, as you say... then that seems to be a much larger base than I had imagined.

Anyway, she beat the opening ceremonies in ratings. That was cause for celebration last week... and so it shall be this week as well. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

wolfdancer
09-05-2008, 03:32 AM
we are still really electing either McCain or Obama, and getting Palin or Biden as bonus picks.( sort of like an "A" entry in horse racing)
I'm sure she is a good woman, and good politician as well. And as Robin Williams said tonite, a woman that can breast feed and fire a shotgun (and maybe at the same time?)
Is she Presidential material?..and there is a chance that McCain might not be able to finish his term (on the off chance that he would be elected)
She may be a fine governor of the 47th ranked state in pop., but I prefer a President to have served a little time in the Congressional, or Senatorial trenches...First term Congressmen, and Senators get their lunches stolen on the hill...and she ain't been "blooded" yet

pooltchr
09-05-2008, 04:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">She may be a fine governor of the 47th ranked state in pop., </div></div>

As opposed to Biden...a senator from the 43rd ranked state in population???

Steve

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 07:11 AM
Sack,
It was Soledad O'Brien's morning program on CNN. There was a good deal of discussion between Republican campaign operatives, women on the right, working to make the case that it is sexist to ask a mother how she can lead a country, if she had to step in and take over, when she has five kids, and the mother of a new born special needs baby, and women who are mothers with special needs children.

The hypocracy of the so called conservative women on this subject is remarkable. Their former position has been to promote mothers stying home to raise their children, probably the one and only thing of their platform that I have ever been in agreeement, but now, all of a sudden, their story has changed, a complete fkip flop. Now it's supposed to be sexist to even bring the subject up to her, and issue which is crucial to the safety of a country in the case of a 72 year old president.

I don't agree with Obama's campaign that Palin's family life, and families present circumstances, should be off the table for discussion. If she's going to promote herself as a super mom, country first, next in line under a 72 year old four times cancer survivor, she should expect criticism from women in this country who know from experience what a special needs child requires, particularly the first few years of life, which for DS babies, is extremely critical and demanding.

Standing up there with a pregnant 17 year old daughter, after fighting against sex education throughout her political career, also should not be off the table for discussion. That is a political position of hers, and she shouold expect to be asked about it.

They can claim till doomsday, that she can put the country first, and still claim family values, no truly dedicated mother will look at her particular circumstance, and buy that argument.

Sally Quinn was on CNN this morning, and as a mother of a special needs child, she had the same criticisms as the many other mothers of S. Needs children who called in yesterday, in outrage, from both political persausions.

Women know the differences between a Mother's touch, and constant emotional involvment with her children, and their completely unpredictable needs at any given time, and a Dad's. The rolse are totally different, and nothing will ever change that.

I dare say had Sara had that kind of devotion and emotional connection with each one of her children, those true family values, even before this move, her 17 year old unmarried daughter would not be standing there pregnant. If she's going to use all the challenging family circumstance which her family faces at this time as a political tool, then she can expect the women of this country to be aware of the hypocracy, and speak their minds, particularly those with children of special needs.

She is the single most inappropriate and disadvantaged wing person for our country's guardianship in history.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
09-05-2008, 07:18 AM
I didn't know that a mother was entirely responsible for her daughter's choices but, in that case, McCain certainly should have conceded last night and gotten this whole ugly thing over with.

Perhaps our laws might be changed to not allow women with children to run for public office until they are barren and the kids are grown. Perhaps Biden, as a man, was just better equiped to take care of his boys alone after his first wife's death than a women would be. I had not known the differences in capability existed as the women's liberation had just not pointed this out to us yet.

Gee, it is heartening that the left has so much concern for a successful women these days. Who would have thought it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 07:30 AM
You can take my statements to the extreme, Deeman, to make some sort of political point, just don't say in one breath that you would never have "allowed" your wife to work when your own kids were little, and then try to turn that position around on behalf of your patry's candidate.

Sara's circumstance are unique. Joe Biden has his sister and mother right there, after the tragic accident which claimed the life of his wife and daughter. He was very lucky to have them. He also had little choice but to continue to provide for him family. There is absolutely no comparison between his situation, and Sara's.

Womens' liberation has nothing to do with this, IMO.

Deeman3
09-05-2008, 07:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can take my statements to the extreme, Deeman, to make some sort of political point, just don't say in one breath that you would never have "allowed" your wife to work when your own kids were little, and then try to turn that position around on behalf of your patry's candidate. <span style="color: #FF0000">Gee, I would have thought a newly minted "Keep 'em in the kitchen" women like yourself would be very supportive of this policy of mine! I am shocked! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I was, of course, baiting you. My wife and I agreed, long before children that she would not work, if I was able to work hard enough to provide a comfortable life for us. My first wife had multiple degrees and was a lifelong volunteer at schools and hospitals. She felt lucky we were able to keep her raising the girls as her first priority. </span>

Sara's circumstance are unique. Joe Biden has his sister and mother right there, after the tragic accident which claimed the life of his wife and daughter. He was very lucky to have them. He also had little choice but to continue to provide for him family. There is absolutely no comparison between his situation, and Sara's.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Perhaps not, but you and I don't know what family resources and level of committment that Todd Palin has as well as other family members. I think a handicapped child is really a lame excuse for anyone but their family to judge as too much. I am willing to concede that I don't know it would not be harmful if you concede that it may not be. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

We might be surprised at the resources available to the V.P of the United States, especially one with a gun. </span>

Womens' liberation has nothing to do with this, IMO. </div></div>

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 08:25 AM
There is no substitution for a Mother's full time, constant emotional involvment in the lives of her small chidren, and I believe, in her older chilldren. Mothering is the most challenging and important role any woman will ever have. No other goal in life is more important. No important endeavor in life can be properly directed while absent and distracted by other overwhelming, copnstantly demanding, and competing responsibilites. How would your own successes have been affected if you weren't there, on the job, throughout?

Mothering is a full time job. No one takes the place of a Mother, ever.

I took care of three Downs babies when I was a teenager, one at a time. They all died before the age of three. Their needs are a full time job. Their medical challenges are incredible. Their constant digestive problems, ear infections, internal muscle challenges, limited head and neck control, things that put their most basic bodily functions in a risk category, and their very lives, require constant, full time attention. Many born to younger women, escape some of those problems, and a very very few, are physically amazing, and a very few are realitvely healthy. The older the mother is at the time they are born, the more serious their limitations. One cannot possibly know early on what any given Downs baby will require.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think a handicapped child is really a lame excuse for anyone but their family to judge as too much. I am willing to concede that I don't know it would not be harmful if you concede that it may not be. </div></div>

I can't agree. Ask amy mother of any handicapped child if she could step in and run this country, and still mother her special needs child, properly.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Chopstick
09-05-2008, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can take my statements to the extreme, Deeman, <span style="color: #3366FF">He doesn't have to they are already there</span> to make some sort of political point, just don't say in one breath that you would never have "allowed" your wife to work when your own kids were little, and then try to turn that position around on behalf of your patry's candidate. <span style="color: #FF0000">Gee, I would have thought a newly minted "Keep 'em in the kitchen" women like yourself would be very supportive of this policy of mine! I am shocked! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>
</div></div>

<span style="color: #3366FF">Well, she obviously doesn't get it. Maybe we should just spell it out for her.</span>

http://www.redneck.org/pix/housewife.jpg

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 08:39 AM
You guys are pretty funny. You should inquire with Scott Lee sometime about my absolute and joyful pleasure in spoiling my own husband, and every other man in my reach. Being a feminist and supporting equal rights for women does not fit into your misguided, false distortions of feminism.

Just another example of how far off you are from the truth.

DickLeonard
09-05-2008, 08:44 AM
Sack316 here is my take on her viewers. At least half wanted to see what made McCain pick such a light weight. Cheney had the same problem with George Bush. It worked for them maybe it will work for McCain/Patlin.

Sack spent 11 days in Alabama, Fay kept me from meeting with Deeman. Where do you get your news down there. Thank God Starbucks sells the New York Times.####

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 08:54 AM
BTW, I commend you for your parental values, having a mother in the home, full time. It takes both parents to raise their children, but men really are from Mars, and women from Venus, and their inclinations, talents and instincts are equally important, but totally different.

I don't agree with all the positions of the feninists, either, btw. Just some of them. As my own dear mother used to tell me, "These women's libbers think they can do as men do and get away with it. They can't. It's a man's world, and that will never change."

Like my mother, who was a strong woman, very firm in her convictions, and also equally tough and soft, under the conditions prevailing, but neither she, nor I, would wish to have the life that men lead, nor would I be stupid enough to imagine that a woman can have both sides of that coin. The option for a choice either way, is still correct, under the conditions prevailing, of course.

"You cannot have it all."

Katherine Hepburn, when asked if she regretted never having a child.

Deeman3
09-05-2008, 08:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DickLeonard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sack316 here is my take on her viewers. At least half wanted to see what made McCain pick such a light weight. Cheney had the same problem with George Bush. It worked for them maybe it will work for McCain/Patlin. <span style="color: #FF0000"> You actually may be right here!</span>

Sack spent 11 days in Alabama, Fay kept me from meeting with Deeman. Where do you get your news down there. Thank God Starbucks sells the New York Times.#### </div></div>

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Dick, I guess you saw all the news we have down here is pretty well right slanted, at least in our newspapers. It was real joy for me to get to talk with you on the phone while you were down here. I am sorry we could not get together but if you ever make it back, let me know.

Deeman3
09-05-2008, 09:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no substitution for a Mother's full time, constant emotional involvment in the lives of her small chidren, and I believe, in her older chilldren. Mothering is the most challenging and important role any woman will ever have. No other goal in life is more important. No important endeavor in life can be properly directed while absent and distracted by other overwhelming, copnstantly demanding, and competing responsibilites. How would your own successes have been affected if you weren't there, on the job, throughout?

Mothering is a full time job. No one takes the place of a Mother, ever.

I took care of three Downs babies when I was a teenager, one at a time. They all died before the age of three. Their needs are a full time job. Their medical challenges are incredible. Their constant digestive problems, ear infections, internal muscle challenges, limited head and neck control, things that put their most basic bodily functions in a risk category, and their very lives, require constant, full time attention. Many born to younger women, escape some of those problems, and a very very few, are physically amazing, and a very few are realitvely healthy. The older the mother is at the time they are born, the more serious their limitations. One cannot possibly know early on what any given Downs baby will require.


I can't agree. Ask amy mother of any handicapped child if she could step in and run this country, and still mother her special needs child, properly.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> I do concede to your experience with the Down's children. I think God every day I was blessed with healthy children and to pretend I know anything about their needs would be foolish. I think we all want what is best for the children and for our country. If she thinks she can handle it, i'll be respectful of her decision but you have made me think about this as an issue. </span>

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 09:13 AM
WHAT!!! You mean to tell my that you can get all the way to Alabama, and you can't get to Maryland!

Dick,
This may be our first squabble! I guess the honeymoon's over! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 09:14 AM
Believe me friend, there are many many women of special needs children, in this country, who are thinking about this as an issue.

Deeman3
09-05-2008, 09:17 AM
Gayle,

Forgive him, I know he'd rather have been with you. He had to see his daughter down here and frighten the crap out of all of us who knew he could give us about 100 balls in a game and still kick our behinds! He is truely a nice and considerate man and you need to help talk him inot letting me write his life story.

He is a National Treasure, I bet we can agree on that!

DickLeonard
09-05-2008, 09:28 AM
Deeman I ended retire at 57 at a perfect time to help my daughter raise her two children. Our days consisted of picnics at Saratoga Race Track for Monday,Wednesday,Thursday,Friday.

Two dollar admission for me,one dollar for two Racing Entries. Free Parking,picnic tables in the Paddock Area, if you were there before 10 O'clock. They would get the Jockeys autographs as they walked to their mounts. My one granddaughter wrote her college essay on her Grandfather and the fun her and her sister had going to Saratoga Race Track with me.

Tuesday was reserved for the Clark Museum in Williamstown Mass. Here they got to see the worlds largest collection of Renoirs and other Impressionists. Picnic on the lawn and then drive thru Pittsfield,Austerlitz and home.

As each one graduated from high school and on to College my daughter and her husband both thanked me for raising their children.

They blamed me for their children excelling in School. Who will Palin Blame?####

Deeman3
09-05-2008, 09:31 AM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 09:34 AM
Hey, don't try and cover for him. He's got some explaining to do! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

sack316
09-05-2008, 10:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DickLeonard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sack316 here is my take on her viewers. At least half wanted to see what made McCain pick such a light weight. Cheney had the same problem with George Bush. It worked for them maybe it will work for McCain/Patlin.

Sack spent 11 days in Alabama, Fay kept me from meeting with Deeman. Where do you get your news down there. Thank God Starbucks sells the New York Times.#### </div></div>

Dick, as deeman said I'm sure you saw our papers /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif but to answer your question on me, I don't generally read any publications such as that down here. I get mine from TV and internet mostly to be honest with ya. I know a lot of people that write and work with our local newspapers... and sometimes that is not a good thing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

And wow, glad you spend 11 days here and let me know nothing about it! Now you are on mine and Gayles sh** list /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Where did ya spend your time while here? I guess the timeframe you spent down here... well I guess all you got to learn bout us is that nobody knows how to drive in the rain (and people wonder why everything shuts down when it actually snows lol), and that we don't like turn signals.

Sack

sack316
09-05-2008, 10:30 AM
Gayle, putting the debates aside here for a moment, just wanted to say kudos for your work before with downs children, especially at an early age. My first go round in college, when I was 18-19, I spent some time doing a program at school we called "Super Sports" where we spent weekends of the event with dozens of special needs children teaching them how to play various sports. I became certified in Adapted Physical Education, and through the last ten years I have always said that it was probably the most heartwarming and rewarding work I have ever done. And I learned quickly that there was no need to "hold back" for the sake of fun or fairness... these kids will go at ya just as hard or harder than anyone else at any sport in which I taught! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 10:49 AM
Dear Sack,
I wish that I could take that kind of honor in my own experience, but I wasn't really involved in that kind of honorable work. I lived across the street from a family with a little girl who was perfectly normal, and healthy, but they had three Down Syndrome babies from the time I was about ten, until I left home, throughout my teens.

The parents were Catholic and didn't believe in birth control. I kept their babies when they went out, as their babysitter, for pay, but because I was also rather close with the Mother in the family, and attached to their litttle girl, who was also close to my little sister's age, I could take her with me when the Mother of these children needed to get things done around her home. In the summertime, I was over there quite a lot, almost every day, in fact, as my own Mom had things she neededd time for, and since I've alwasy loved children, it just sort of happened.

You are lucky to have ahd the opportunity to work with some of the DS children who were not so challenged as these babies were. They are not the majority, i'm afraid, particularly when they are born to older women. The mother had already had one before they moved across from us, and then the three more in succession came along.

These litttle babies were very much disadvantaged. I won't go into all of it, because frankly, I don't much like recalling all of it. It has a different affect on my now at the age of sixty three, than it did when I was a teen, but there were some good moments for them, but few. I took a lot of pride that I was the only one who could make any of them laugh, and there were some rewards, but the demands on the family were extremely challenging, and the overall picture was very grim, and sad. Heartbreaking, in fact.

Kudos to you my friend. I wish I could say that I was led from that experience to offer my time to help more of those poor children, but I cannot.

Gayle in Md.

sack316
09-05-2008, 11:05 AM
Gayle, I don't feel as far as personal experience goes, that mine would be any better for myself than your was for you. As I'm sure you know, getting to spend any time in any way shape or form with special needs children is a completely different and eye opening experience. It's something the vast majority of people will never get to see or deal with personally, and thus difficult to understand. One can read and study about it all they want, but as I'm sure you know, nothing really gives you the true test and visions of what is requires as actually spending quality time with such a child does. And that experience is no greater and no less when comparing taching athletics to babysitting. I got to spend a few weekends a year teaching innovative ways someone with a disability could enjoy various sports. You got to spend most of your teen years caring for DS babies. I personally don't think my experience is any more honorable than yours, nor do I think what you or I took out of our experience would be much different in the grand scheme of things.

So thank you for my kudos, but don't short change yourself, either. We each had the honor and privilege of a learning experience few people get to have. And I can't speak for you, but I know the kids I worked with taught me more and made a bigger impact on me than I'm sure I ever could have for them. I taught them sports, they taught me about life and people in a way I never would have imagined going in.

Sack

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 11:28 AM
Such a beatiful post, Sack. I still take my hat off to you. You went out looking to do some good. I was just doing what came up. Either way, we both got lots out of it as you say.

It's really a lot like seeing the other side of this war. If everyone would volunteer at their local USO, or Veterans hospital, I believe a lot of the Rah Rah war crowd, would change their tune. They would be much more angry over the way this war was prosecutred, for one thing, and they would surely be much more demanding about giving Iraq over to the Iraqis, I can assure you of that.

There is no honor in killing. That is probably the biggest myth of all times, and no one wins, in war. Just hearing McCain speak about "Winning" in Iraq, makes my blood boil. Nothing Can be won in an occupation, and interestingly enough, one lone fellow held up that very sign last night and I was so glad that the cameras captured his statement. He is so right, and he was very brave.

I have no admiration for Sara, at all. McCain was correct when he said he met his soul mate. All that accolade for beling a moose killer, was nauseating to me. In fact, throughout the evening, as I watched, I couldn't help thinking, these folks are definitely the nutty 28%! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Gayle in Md.

sack316
09-05-2008, 11:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Such a beatiful post, Sack. I still take my hat off to you. You went out looking to do some good. I was just doing what came up. Either way, we both got lots out of it as you say.

</div></div>

I'm gonna keep it to just this part for now. But you give me too much credit... as I didn't actualyl go out looking to do some good. Actually, it started as a required thing for a course I was taking. It was something I didn't mind doing, but at first I didn't necessarily choose to go do something wonderful, per say. But the kids kept me coming back after the first and one required weekend. And that's when I went and got my certification for that kind of work, so that one day were the opportunity to come up I could do such work as a possible career. Unfortunately, and perhaps because of liability I'm not sure, but adapted physical education is not something you see much of, at least locally. But at any rate, we both originally just kind of wound up doing that... and I'm sure we are both equally better for the experience.

Sack

wolfdancer
09-05-2008, 01:30 PM
Sack, that is one of, if not the best post that I have ever read here..

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 01:46 PM
And a United States Senator for thirty years, with many of those years involved in National Security issues, and Foreign RElations.

The two can't even be compared. Even the National Gueard states she has absolutely nothing to do with them,. Biden is head and shoulders above all fo them, including McCain, whose own party can't stand his outbursts and his cocky eltitist attitudes.

He a fake, and that is easy to see, atleast for people with open eyes.

Gayle in MD.

wolfdancer
09-05-2008, 02:00 PM
There's a big difference between Governing a State like Alaska, and
dealing with both the nation's problems, and our international policies. And once you get to the "big dance" It doesn't really matter if you represent a small, backwwods state like N. Carolina, or a large state like Cal. your vote counts equally.
How much time would it take to get her up to speed?...and could she push through her agenda on a recalcitrant Congress?
(well maybe with a shotgun?)

Gayle in MD
09-05-2008, 05:34 PM
Hey Sack,
I think you were right after all. Atleast one of the cable news stations said that McCain had more viewers than Obama. I think it was fairly close, though.

Also, Palin gets high approval ratings on likability, but not so good on preparedness to take over for a president, and versus Biden, shes way down on that.... Can't recall exactly, but it was around 30 for her, and over sixty for him, as best qualified to be VP.

Another poll shows her as about a fity percent disapproval rating.

I haven't seen the gallup on her today, but it had Obama still leading McCain, by six points.

Just a little up-date. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

pooltchr
09-05-2008, 06:20 PM
Wolf, you can't win the experience arguement. Assuming for a minute that any kind of experience, be it in the senate, or as a governor, is the same, the Dems put the one with the least experience on the top of their ticket. At least the Reps put theirs at number 2, where she will have the opportunity to learn the job so that in 2012, she will be more ready to take over the white house. Should Obama win, it will be baptism by fire.
Steve

sack316
09-06-2008, 09:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Sack,
I think you were right after all. Atleast one of the cable news stations said that McCain had more viewers than Obama. I think it was fairly close, though.

<span style="color: #3366FF">yeah, I just read that too and was quite surprised to be honest. I actually figured Palin would be the big TV draw, and the McCain speech would get respectable numbers- but nothing like he got. I was closing the night of his speech, and unfortunately didn't get to watch</span>

Also, Palin gets high approval ratings on likability, but not so good on preparedness to take over for a president, and versus Biden, shes way down on that.... Can't recall exactly, but it was around 30 for her, and over sixty for him, as best qualified to be VP.

<span style="color: #3366FF">Not too surprising. Her likability should be high as she is new and fresh, and on the surface really is just plain easy to like. As time goes on and more comes out about her, I could see this number going up or down drastically. Make sure you check the syntax though on these polls, because she may have a high likability but may also have a high lickability /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif And I seriously doubt there would be any way she'd catch Biden on being best qualified unless there is a major Biden blunder</span>

Another poll shows her as about a fity percent disapproval rating.

<span style="color: #3366FF">Again, I think this number could change either way. That part is up to her. But like Obama, the fresh face and newness factore will lure many people in. The inexperience factor will push many away. It'll come down to what she says and how much credibility she can gain that will decide where that number goes</span>

I haven't seen the gallup on her today, but it had Obama still leading McCain, by six points.

<span style="color: #3366FF"> I saw those same numbers. I'm more waiting for Monday to see where it is at. Obama's bump after the DNC didn't really show until the Monday after. I think come monday, we'll probably be neck and neck within the margin of error... but guessing Obama will still have a 1-2 point lead. I think we've all pretty well figured out long ago that the debates will wind up being the breaking point for this election if there will be one at all.

I sometimes wonder if this is why there has been so little of substance and policy being spoken of. As if the campaigns are in sort of a "prevent defense", and just trying to not lose right now rather than trying to win.</span>

Just a little up-date. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

<span style="color: #3366FF">thanks! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</span></div></div>

Sack

pooltchr
09-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Her approval rating as Governor were between 80 and 90%. That's the highest of any governor in the country. While I don't think anyone can get those kind of numbers in Washington, I do believe she can bring them up from the gutter they are in right now for both congress and the white house.
Steve

Gayle in MD
09-06-2008, 05:42 PM
The choice of this woman as VP candidate, is the single most irresponsible decision ever made by any candidate for president in our history.

All we have to do is look at her with her family standing there with her, and it is obvious that her decision making abilities are severly compromised.

pooltchr
09-06-2008, 07:13 PM
Of course, you are right. Why whatever were we thinking? How could a woman and mother EVER be capable of doing anything other than staying home. Hell Yeah! Keep 'em home, barefoot and pregnant! And while your at it, fetch your husband a cold beer!

You spent months on here bashing everyone who didn't like Hillary for being a sexist pig. Now you find out it might not have had anything to do with her anatomy, but more with her politics. How could so many sexist pigs actually come out in support of a woman??? It doesn't fit into your mold, does it?
Do you think, just maybe, you were........WRONG??? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

Steve

Gayle in MD
09-06-2008, 07:51 PM
I think you're a red dog Republican, and that you'd support Minnie Mouse if McCain put her up there next to him. You'd be jumping right on here trying to tell us that she had foreign policy experience because she and Mickey Mouse used to eat cheese at the Pentagon!

Some of the statements about Hillary were sexist, and you know damn well they were.

This woman has political policies that fly in the face of her own circumstances.

Family values? But she leaves a downs syndrone baby before it is even old enough for her to know what kind of challenges he will face, for the second most demanding job in the country?

Family values? Sex education shouldn't be taught, and her pregnant 17 year old unmarried daughter is standing right there next to her?

These are political positions and there is every reason to judge her by her own policies, and the results of her so called family values, in plain vies, that she wants to push onto everybody else. I don't think so Sara dear, they didn't work very well for you!

Hillary is another subject entirely. The accusations made against her were sexist. Statements about her body, her husbands falandering, and you were among the worst one here, although Deemcan ran you a close second. She had years of working for women's and childrens issues, foreign travel, working with foriegn leaders, eight years in the White House, Six years in the Governors Mansion, directing her husband's campaigns, working as a U.S. Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee, and Senator of one of the most populated states in the Union. You said she didn't have enough experience, but you are thrilled with this Moosburger?

BWA HA HA HA...She's even under investigation! BWA HA HA HA. McCain goes all the way to Alaska for a squeeky clean Republican running mate, and she's under investigation! Laden down with earmarks, and in bed with Ted Stevens!

I'd like to hear what you'd all be saying about Obama, if one of his daughters was standing up there pregnant, with her reluctant studmuffin hauled in for photo ops, and had said what this kid said on his internet my space,.... the last sentence...

"I'm an F-ing red neck,....I dont want any F-ing kids!" Among other things.

Gee, Sara must be a grand example of family values! What a fine Mother! If you're going to defend the party that builds its platform on Family Values, and no sex education, and cut the Earmarks, don't expect to put the national Earmark Queen and her unmarried pregnant duaghter up there and expect ever who has listened to you righties bashing democratics for fifteen years, to just sit down and shut up!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

When McCain's campaign, full of corrupt corporate pigs, Like Carley Fiarino, and the entire Washington lobbyist cabal, both sides of K.Street, AND Laura and Cindy, started saying that she had foreign policy experience, because her state was the closest state to Russia, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif This country was laughing its collective ass off!

Go sell your nonsence elsewhere. This is a total joke. Her record isn't very good. She's a virtual Earmark Queen! Left her hometown in debt. Was the 527 Director for Ted STevens. There will be plenty of negative coverage of her because she isn't qualitifed for anything. Nadda, Zilch!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

sack316
09-06-2008, 10:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hillary is another subject entirely.

</div></div>

Yeah, cuz Chelsea's parents were pretty busy during her teen years. And I think she turned out OK. That secret service does a pretty good job, IMO.

Sack

Gayle in MD
09-07-2008, 09:53 AM
Hillary Clinton, by all accounts, including Jackie Kennedy, always put Chelsea first, above everything. She was relatively young when Chelsea was born, and Chelsea was an only child. Your statement has no relevence when compared to a forty-three year old woman with five children, and one of them a special needs baby. No comparison at all!

In spite of McCain calling Chelsea ugly, when she was a young adolecent, and joking that she was a result of an affair between Hillary and Janet Reno, probably THE meanest statement ever made by a sitting politician, Chelsea Clinton has been the picture of results of good parenting. An out of wedlock, pregnant 17 year old daughter, born to a religious nut who is againse sex education, can hardly be compared to Hillary choices, or the results of her choices, namely, Chelsea Clinton.

Now, all of a sudden, HIS kids, and HIS VP selection, are off limits.

HELL NO! The dangers to this country from a McCain presidency call for pulling out all the stops to keep him, and the Republicans, out of our future picture, atleast until they coe to their senses.

If that doesn't tell you what a POS this man is, nothing will. Topped only by his singing of Bom Bom Bom bombomb Iran. About as responsible an action as his VP selection.

You don't get it. He is unbalanced. He will never lead our country into the energy technologies that we MUSt immediately embrace. He is another neocon hawk, in bed with big oil, and the Washington lobbyists most connected to the bad policies responsible for the mess we're in.

He can try till dooms day to separate himself from this administration, but voting 90% of the tima, and signing on to the worst foreing policy disaster of all times, isn't going to go away. Shoving a pretty woman, with no foreign policy experience what-so-ever in fron of the public will only be effective in getting the same stupid people who voted for Bush twice, to vote for McCain, and many of them hav seen the light.

Iraq is a failure. The surge is a failure. The supposed gains, attributed to the surge, are lies.

When you've dug yourself into a hole, stop digging! That pertains to OIL, AND IRAQ! A mess Bush made with best case expectations, which got us worst case results.

The Republicans have got to go! It's essential to our survival. Our future safety, health, and security lies in Energy Technology, and becoming leaders in that field. McCain stand with the administration that censors scientific studies that reveal the truth about global warming, and oil. McCain's "Drill baby Drill" crowd gave us THE most incredible visual example of total ignorance that has ever been projected upon a television screen!

sack316
09-07-2008, 08:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The surge is a failure. </div></div>

I figured you'd all give that up once Obama did. Which, by the way he has in case you haven't noticed. Can't recall the exact quote, but something along the lines of being more successful than they could have dreamed. Just wish he'd go so far to say "I was wrong on this" as he is quick to say "I was right on that".

Sack

eg8r
09-08-2008, 11:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but I prefer a President to have served a little time in the Congressional, or Senatorial trenches...First term Congressmen, and Senators get their lunches stolen on the hill...and she ain't been "blooded" yet
</div></div>You are considering Obama to have spent time in the congressional or senatorial trenches? Any chance you can tell us about this experience?

eg8r

eg8r
09-08-2008, 11:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hillary Clinton, by all accounts, including Jackie Kennedy, always put Chelsea first, above everything. She was relatively young when Chelsea was born, and Chelsea was an only child. Your statement has no relevence when compared to a forty-three year old woman with five children, and one of them a special needs baby. No comparison at all!</div></div>Typical Gayle response. In Gayle's eyes, she is the only one that can make a comparison.

Has anyone checked to see if Obama has sent his brother next months dollar to cover expenses?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
09-08-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't agree with Obama on that. There can be no real success in a completely flawed policy. Woodward's new book will expose that llie, soon. As I have read long ago, and posted here, the turning point came long before "The Surge" McInsane has attributed all the reduction to the surge, but that is just another McInsane lie.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/07/AR2008090701847.html?nav=rss_world