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Kerbouchard
10-21-2009, 10:13 PM
I don't think anybody, here or elsewhere, is against reform. I pay over 700 a month for health insurance for my wife, daughter and myself. I'm all about doing something about that.

The problem is the country is split on what type of reform is necessary. There are the people who cannot afford 700 a month who want me to pay for their health coverage, and the people who can afford it but don't like it. The two groups have a fundamental disagreement on whether my care should be 900 a month and help to cover somebody that cannot afford it.

In any case, what we should all be able to agree on is what is driving the costs up.
1. Better quality care. 50 years ago, we didn't have MRI's, or radioisotopes, or any of the other high tech diagnostic tools that we have today. We have better care and that costs more. It's worth it.

2. Lawsuits. We also didn't have lawsuits regarding a doctor not finding an illness because there is a specialized test somewhere that would have found it. It's not the doctors job to run every possible test, and he should not be sued over something like that. Gross negligence is a different story, but I would rather have a doctor who does the best job he can rather than one who is just operating under the CYA mentality.

3. Government inefficiency. We didn't have the government telling the doctors how much they would be paid for a 'class of illness'. We had doctors who did their best to treat their patients within the ability of the doctor and the means of the patient. When the government stepped in, paperwork went up, billing became much more complicated, and quality of care was substituted for quantity of care.

4. Insurance inefficiency and widespread use. 50 years ago, most people didn't have health insurance. They went to the doctor when they were really sick, worked out a plan with the doctor, got treated and paid for the services. Now we have panicked mobs trying to get a vaccine for a strain of the flu that is more mild than it's common form.

5. Overuse of the health care industry. American's are over-medicated. Period. From the multitude of vaccines and antibiotics that only serve to breed more dangerous diseases to the kid who needs a spanking but is instead given Ritalin. Americans used to know how to take care of themselves. We had an aloe vera plant sitting in the living room when I grew up, and it sure did earn it's keep when cuts, scrapes, bites, or burns came around. Now, there are three aisles at the local walmart selling medications that don't do the job half as well.

6. Illegals. We can't afford it. Just because you snuck across the border does not grant any sense of entitlement. They are criminals. They aren't entitled to be here and they damn sure aren't entitled to free health care.

Let's work on 2-6 before we decide the government needs to completely take over the health care system

Kerbouchard
10-22-2009, 07:28 AM
The sounds of silence; Chirp, chirp.

Does anybody here actually have thoughts of their own about health care or are we still waiting for our politicians to tell us what to think?

pooltchr
10-22-2009, 11:07 AM
I think they have gone to the troth to find out what they are supposed to think about your post.

They are so fond of saying the the conservatives are against HCR. That is just another lie. We all know it needs to be fixed. Some of us just think that Obama/Nancy/Harry may not have a viable plan to fix it.

Steve

Kerbouchard
10-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Guess they haven't found anything yet? It's crazy we can't even have a rational discussion on things we should agree on.

pooltchr
10-22-2009, 06:52 PM
Pride will prevent them from admitting that someone else might have a better idea. They would rather see the country fail than admit that they don't have all the answers.

Rational discussion??? Not going to happen with some of the die-hard Obamatrons.

Steve

Kerbouchard
10-22-2009, 06:56 PM
I don't care anything about them admitting there are better ideas out there. I was actually hoping for criticism in order to refine my own thoughts.

pooltchr
10-23-2009, 08:04 AM
Can't help you there. I think you made some very valid points.
Steve

Sev
10-24-2009, 07:54 AM
Another case of.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/8f7acad2.jpg


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/e4668fad.jpg

Alfie
10-25-2009, 12:00 AM
I want single payer, paid for by the Fair Tax.

Whadyathink?

cushioncrawler
10-25-2009, 04:34 AM
usofa insurance admin costs 22% koz they reward klunts with bonuses.
Dutch gov insurance admin costs 2% -- and not a klunt in sight.
madMac.

Sev
10-25-2009, 08:09 AM
I want the Fair Tax period.

However Paying for health care via the Fair Tax could work but not using a single payer.
Make it the way Soc Sec was originally intended to be. Private Thrift Accounts.

In this case a private HSA and or a catastrophic insurance policy is set up for every US born and or naturalized citizen. These accounts are not touchable nor are they taxable. They will also be willable and transferable.

Issues that need to be addressed as well.

1. Tort reform.
2. Portability across state lines. There are 1700 Ins providers that are not in competition because of the interstate commerce clause.
3. Health care needs to be tax free.
4. Any health care expenses should be Tax deductible.
5. Medical equipment and medicines need to be tax free.
6. Prevention needs to be focused on.
7. Medicaid and Medicare need to taken out of the General Fund. And need to operate within its guidelines.
8. Medicaid and Medicare need to be audited to eliminate both waste and corruption.


A single payer option is not needed if this and more is done. Like so many other things true competition will bring prices down if the market is allowed to operate properly. The government being directly involved in market competition short circuits the process and in the long run be detrimental to over all medical quality.

Remember we already have several public options. Medicare, Medicaid, The VA and Triple Pay being amongst them. The first 3 are government run. Saying very poorly run would be an understatement.

Non of the above require a 2 trillion dollar health care bill.

pooltchr
10-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Your point number 2 is probably one of the best things we could do. Obama himself said that competition benefits the consumers by holding down prices. So why do we have rules that completely restrict competition?

Why are the dems afraid of this one?

Steve

Kerbouchard
10-25-2009, 09:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alfie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want single payer, paid for by the Fair Tax.

Whadyathink?</div></div>

I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but I will pretend like you are serious.

The people who generally want something paid for by a 'single payer' who is funded by other people's money typically believe that they will be afforded what the person who is just ahead of them has. i.e. if you make 40K a year, and we average everything out, then you would have 50K quality.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, this never works out. There are inevitably more people below wanting what you have then there are above who are willing to give what they have.

A single payer system drags everybody down to the lowest common denominator. It does not elevate anybody. The best way to better your position is to seek training and do your job well. The rest will follow.

Too often, the thing that drags people down and keeps them down is the lack of will power for that person to live within his means. Our society is becoming one of 'I wants' instead of 'I have earned'. The youth today moves out of the house their parents spent 40 or 50 years working for and expects to maintain the same quality of life. They refuse to start at the beginning and in attempting to take the short cut, will never reach what they are looking for.

A single payer system paid for by others may seem like a short cut, but you will never have really earned anything you receive. It will always be a charity bestowed upon you by the government at their will. No thanks.

The most efficent way to take away somebodys sense of self worth is to give them something they know they don't deserve and have not earned.