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Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 08:54 AM
<span style='font-size: 11pt'>It is an absolute RIOT to log on here, and see posts, comparing Bush's deficits, to Obama's deficits, when there is no final talley on Obama's deficits!

I notice that the interest on Bush's massive borrowing, and spending, waste and misplaced money, adding up into the multi trillions, the costs of health care for many thousands of American soldiers who have been rendered handicapped, for the rest of their lives, not included, war deficits with interest, which were hidden throughout, simply ignored!


If we were to add up the on-going costs of Bush's two mismanaged failures in the Middle East, plus interest, and resulting on-going health costs, Obama's "No choice but to spend to divert disaster" circumstances would look like a DEAL!

As usual, some who assume they are blessed with "Common sense" still blind to the principles of critical thinking, such as, "Under the conditions prevailing"!


Incredible!

No wonder..."Even among Republicans, only 40 percent express confidence in the GOP congressional leadership to make good choices".
</span>

sack316
10-22-2009, 09:01 AM
and among democrats, approval of our democratic controlled congress dropped 18 points to 36% since last month. (21% overall approval). They ain't faring so hot either.

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 09:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and among democrats, approval of our democratic controlled congress dropped 18 points to 36% since last month. (21% overall approval). They ain't faring so hot either.

Sack </div></div>

Actually, historically, that's pretty good, when in power, during a deep recession.

Republicans are far wworse off than Democratics.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even among Republicans, only 40 percent express confidence in the GOP congressional leadership to make good choices.
</div></div>

sack316
10-22-2009, 09:34 AM
replied to this in the other thread, so will not copy again here.

But would like to say re: "deep recession"... I thought we were saved? I thought signs were we are on our way out of recession... things are looking up and we are on our way out? Shouldn't the numbers at worst hold, and at best rise? Why is approval among independents cut in half over the last few months? Why is approval among their own party declining so sharply over the last month?

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and among democrats, approval of our democratic controlled congress dropped 18 points to 36% since last month. (21% overall approval). They ain't faring so hot either.

Sack </div></div>

I think the country is moving to the left. Congressional Republicans have the lowest approval ratings 15 years.

http://people-press.org/report/551/


There is also a link at this same site for this information...
Liberals represent 17 percent of the American public, and 19 percent of registered voters.

Basic Description
This group has nearly doubled in proportion since 1999, Liberals now comprise the largest share of Democrats and is the single largest of the nine Typology groups, (Strong
Democrat Democrat Independent,
Lean Democrat Independent,
no leaning Independent,
Lean Republican Republican Strong Republican

. They are the most opposed to an assertive foreign policy, the most secular, and take the most liberal views on social issues such as homosexuality, abortion, and censorship. They differ from other Democratic groups in that they are strongly pro-environment and pro-immigration, issues which are more controversial among Conservative and Disadvantaged Democrats.

Defining Values
Strongest preference for diplomacy over use of military force. Pro-choice, supportive of gay marriage and strongly favor environmental protection. Low participation in religious activities. Most sympathetic of any group to immigrants as well as labor unions, and most opposed to the anti-terrorism Patriot Act.

Who They Are
Most (62%) identify themselves as liberal. Predominantly white (83%), most highly educated group (49% have a college degree or more), and youngest group after Bystanders. Least religious group in typology: 43% report they seldom or never attend religious services; nearly a quarter (22%) are seculars. More than one-third never married (36%). Largest group residing in urban areas (42%) and in the western half the country (34%). Wealthiest Democratic group (41% earn at least $75,000).
Lifestyle Notes
Largest group to have been born (or whose parents were born) outside of the U.S. or Canada (20%). Least likely to report having a gun at home (23%) or attending bible study or prayer group meetings (13%).

2004 Election
Bush 2%, Kerry 81%

Party ID
59% Democrat; 40% Independent/No Preference, 1% Republican (92% Dem/Lean Dem)

Media Use
Liberals are second only to Enterprisers in following news about government and public affairs most of the time (60%). Liberals’ use of the internet to get news is the highest among all groups (37%).

sack316
10-22-2009, 09:42 AM
Was that an answer to my question? Or were you in process of posting this when I posed my question?

Sack

p.s. regardless, I don't find any reason to "celebrate" as posted in the other thread, or anything hilarious about the vast majority of the country being dissatisfied... right or left. I think it's just sad, actually.

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 10:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">replied to this in the other thread, so will not copy again here.

But would like to say re: "deep recession"... I thought we were saved? I thought signs were we are on our way out of recession... things are looking up and we are on our way out? Shouldn't the numbers at worst hold, and at best rise? Why is approval among independents cut in half over the last few months? Why is approval among their own party declining so sharply over the last month?

Sack </div></div>

Because jobs are the last to improve in any recession, that's why.

Republicans are at 9% approval? And you think the Dems, at 32%, are in trouble?

BWA HA HA HA...

Good one! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 10:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was that an answer to my question? Or were you in process of posting this when I posed my question?

Sack

p.s. regardless, I don't find any reason to "celebrate" as posted in the other thread, or anything hilarious about the vast majority of the country being dissatisfied... right or left. I think it's just sad, actually. </div></div>

I think the fact that the recession is over, Republicans are at a fifteen year low in approval ratings, Obama still has billions more stimulus money to spend on Job creation, and helping stop foreclosures, and passing the health Care Bill, with a public option, and no addition to the deficit, and that Republicans are down to a 9% approval rating, should all be giving you a little bit of pause....as far as your take on my posts.

As I said, most of us remember who got us into the disasters which Obama is having to address.

Hence, Republicans, the party of NO, are seen for what they are, and your concerns about Democratic approval ratings, should be focused on your own party, particularly given the recent disclosures of their many closeted gays, and their votes against Halliburton, (with protection from Bush's politicized DOJ), being sued for their employees gang rapeing, and drugging, and imprisoning a young twenty two year old woman.

I think Republicans will continue to vote in the interest of corporate America, and against the best interests of the common man. Against the best interests of women, and against the best interests of the country.

Their votes regarding the rape of that young woman, were comdemned in newspapers all over this country!

G.

sack316
10-22-2009, 10:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Because jobs are the last to improve in any recession, that's why.</div></div>

Well then we should probably wait before throwing the ticker tape parade, ya know?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Republicans are at 9% approval? And you think the Dems, at 32%, are in trouble?

BWA HA HA HA...

Good one! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>

I could care less whether democrats or republicans are in trouble. The country is in trouble. It doesn't matter whether an (r) or a (d) is winning or losing "the game"... they are each failing and we all lose then. Hell, if democrats were at 2% and republicans at 1% you'd celebrate that fact that democrats are twice as liked as republicans and blow off the fact that the vast majority of people are unhappy.

YOU posted info on how the country is shifting left, you posted info on how those left leaners are more educated and keep better tabs on the news and goings on in this country. So still, can you explain to me how THAT base dropped in support of democrats by 18%? Surely THEY know "jobs are the last thing to recover". Surely that base knows much of the same information you are celebrating. Why then are 2 out of 3 of y'all disapproving?

Sack

sack316
10-22-2009, 10:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think the fact that the recession is over</div></div>

less than an hour ago in response to my query about why democratic support of the democratic congress is down RIGHT NOW 18 points from last month:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, historically, that's pretty good, when in power, during a deep recession.
</div></div>

Which is it?

Sack

sack316
10-22-2009, 10:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As I said, most of us remember who got us into the disasters which Obama is having to address.
</div></div>

Surprising to me, the other day on Hardball... Matthews actually said TARP and Bush avoided a depression. Of course it was the same Bush who was steering us into it... but my jaw hit the floor when he credited recovery (at least a beginning and part of it) to Bush.

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 10:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As I said, most of us remember who got us into the disasters which Obama is having to address.
</div></div>

Surprising to me, the other day on Hardball... Matthews actually said TARP and Bush avoided a depression. Of course it was the same Bush who was steering us into it... but my jaw hit the floor when he credited recovery (at least a beginning and part of it) to Bush.

Sack </div></div>

Well, I heard his statement, and he said Bush, AND Obama, not just Bush....I do believe.

But, I don't know why you were shocked, even I credited Bush for agreeing to do what had to be done at that time.

I also credited him for firing Rumsfeld, and hiring Gates.

However, we have to take into account, that all of his other decisions, and appointees, led us into that pit, but atleast he listened to the experts, THIS TIME, when the economy hit the wall, unlike the Iraq Fiasco!

Problem is that the TARP was written during the previous April, while he was still suggesting that the Fundamentals of the economy, were strong. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

In fact, we were in a recession for a full year, before the administration would admit it, as I recall.

Mathews, after all, isn't working at FOX. MSNBC is a mix of righties and lefties, and in the mornings, FAR RIGHT! Joe the nose! And his panel of pretend liberals. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Fox is not news, it is propaganda and opinion only.

Even Rupert admitted that.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 12:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think the fact that the recession is over</div></div>

less than an hour ago in response to my query about why democratic support of the democratic congress is down RIGHT NOW 18 points from last month:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, historically, that's pretty good, when in power, during a deep recession.
</div></div>

Which is it?

Sack
</div></div>

According to most economists, the recession is over. Were the poll numbers falling during the recession? Yes. Do you enjoy nit picking? Yes.

Gayle in MD
10-22-2009, 12:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Because jobs are the last to improve in any recession, that's why.</div></div>

Well then we should probably wait before throwing the ticker tape parade, ya know?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Republicans are at 9% approval? And you think the Dems, at 32%, are in trouble?

BWA HA HA HA...

Good one! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>

I could care less whether democrats or republicans are in trouble. The country is in trouble. It doesn't matter whether an (r) or a (d) is winning or losing "the game"... they are each failing and we all lose then. Hell, if democrats That would be Democratics, not Democrats. you wouldn't say, Republics, would you? were at 2% and republicans at 1% you'd celebrate that fact that democrats are twice as liked as republicans and blow off the fact that the vast majority of people are unhappy.

I doubt it, but I can see why someone like you, would like to think that, given the state of your own party.

YOU posted info on how the country is shifting left, you posted info on how those left leaners are more educated and keep better tabs on the news and goings on in this country. So still, can you explain to me how THAT base dropped in support of democrats by 18%?

Here is a littel pcyshology lesson.

We are going through a time of very difficult issues, and people are worried, as well they should be. Although we will continue to see the polls go up and down, overall, Obama has maintained his support, as most polls still show that people do trust him to work on and solve our very serious problems.

As we see more visible improvment in the job market, the polls will cahnge.

Personally, I think that the fact that you choose to ignore the drastic problems of your own party, and seek to attack my pleasure that Americans are seeing the light on the party whose policies caused all of our problems in the first place, leaving them to obama and the Democratics to solve, and still trust Democratics and Obama the most, to solve them, is far more pertinent, that the usual up and down cycles of the polls.

I notice, you compeltely ignore the fact, that in spite of flucutation poll numbers, Democratics are not losing their party numbers.

Hence, you can nit pick, whine and complain, and I'll celebrate.
I am seeing the AMerican people wake up and realize the damage done to this country by Republican Policies. That is exactly what I was hoping for, since IMO, Republicans, and George Bush, practically destroyed us, and being a patriot, I am very ahppy that so many Americans have awakened to that fact, as they surely, obviously have.

Hence, ONLY 9% APPROVE OF REPUBLICANS, and they are leaking party members like crazy!

BRAVO! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
To each his own.


Surely THEY know "jobs are the last thing to recover". Surely that base knows much of the same information you are celebrating. Why then are 2 out of 3 of y'all disapproving?

Sack </div></div>

Are you really that unaware of human psychology?

eg8r
10-22-2009, 02:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is an absolute RIOT to log on here, and see posts, comparing Bush's deficits, to Obama's deficits, when there is no final talley on Obama's deficits!
</div></div>Sure, but I don't think we can afford to wait until Obama borrows all of China's available money to see he is much worse than W ever was.

eg8r

eg8r
10-22-2009, 02:44 PM
LOL, now gaylio is going to tell us she is an expert in human psychology? I guess with hubby doing all the work she has plenty of time to learn everything there is to know about everything.

eg8r

pooltchr
10-22-2009, 03:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [b] [size:11pt]It is an absolute RIOT to log on here, and see posts, comparing Bush's deficits, to Obama's deficits, when there is no final talley on Obama's deficits!

</div></div>

It is an absolute RIOT to log on here, and see that Gayle still can not ignore my posts!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Steve

sack316
10-22-2009, 07:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you really that unaware of human psychology?
</div></div>

Actually I am quite aware of human psychology. That's what makes me wonder so much about ya sometimes my dear /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Republicans are at 9% approval
</div></div>

Where is that BTW, what I see is a 25% approval rating for republicans in congress. Nothing to brag about (for either party), but not 9%

Sack

sack316
10-22-2009, 08:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That would be Democratics, not Democrats. you wouldn't say, Republics, would you?
</div></div>

No I wouldn't. But I still used it properly:

American Heritage defines “Democrat n” as “A Democratic Party member” and “Democratic adj” as “Of, relating to, or characteristic of the Democratic Party”. Hence my use "I don't care if democrats or republicans..." is proper. Democratic would be used in the sense of an adjective (democratic principles) or an adverb (democratically). And actually, in looking through dictionaries, I see no plural form "democratics".

But then again, it's Sack who nitpicks, right? And I did just notice I failed to capitalize the word here, so I'll leave it as-is so you can still have something if ya want.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a littel pcyshology lesson.
</div></div>

Thanks for the lesson, shall I provide you with a spelling lesson in return? Not nit picking, but you must admit misspelling the name of a subject you are claiming to give a lesson is... is funny! Though doubt your lesson would pass any kind of curriculum upon reading it. To sum up your lesson, you answered my question with "people are scared". Quite a fair assertion. But the dip in numbers, under that ideal, would imply that people are MORE scared now than they have been since this admin took over. Are there more, less, or the same amount of things to be worried about today than there was in February, May, September? I contend it's the same... your jubilee over the accomplishments of this admin would actually say there should be LESS worries on this day. So AGAIN, why then would polling among dem registered voters show less approval NOW? There is at worst, the same stuff to be afraid of... at best less things. If fear is the driving motivation in your psychology lesson, then moving to math I'd say something simply doesn't add up in your argument. Logically speaking, of course. If we would like to be illogical, then you may have an argument here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As we see <u>more</u> visible improvment in the job market, the polls will cahnge.
</div></div>

To have more of something one must have some of something. In the job market there has been no improvement, visible or otherwise yet. The only hopeful positive thing to address this is that money is more readily available... unfortunately businesses are afraid to spend those monies out of fear of forthcoming taxes, penalties, etc from new legislation. It may all work out, we may indeed be saved... but I'm still gonna wait to see it before I quit holding my breath on it if ya don't mind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hence, <u>you can nit pick</u>, whine and complain, and I'll celebrate.
</div></div>

Funny this is in the same post in which you incorrectly try to school me on the use of democrat vs. democratic.

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 02:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That would be Democratics, not Democrats. you wouldn't say, Republics, would you?
</div></div>

No I wouldn't. But I still used it properly:

American Heritage defines “Democrat n” as “A Democratic Party member” and “Democratic adj” as “Of, relating to, or characteristic of the Democratic Party”. Hence my use "I don't care if democrats or republicans..." is proper. Democratic would be used in the sense of an adjective (democratic principles) or an adverb (democratically). And actually, in looking through dictionaries, I see no plural form "democratics".

But then again, it's Sack who nitpicks, right? And I did just notice I failed to capitalize the word here, so I'll leave it as-is so you can still have something if ya want.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a littel pcyshology lesson.
</div></div>

Thanks for the lesson, shall I provide you with a spelling lesson in return? Not nit picking, but you must admit misspelling the name of a subject you are claiming to give a lesson is... is funny! Though doubt your lesson would pass any kind of curriculum upon reading it. To sum up your lesson, you answered my question with "people are scared". Quite a fair assertion. But the dip in numbers, under that ideal, would imply that people are MORE scared now than they have been since this admin took over. Are there more, less, or the same amount of things to be worried about today than there was in February, May, September? I contend it's the same...

<span style="color: #000066">LMAO! HA HA HA, You are a real riot!

Now, let me take you back to September of 2008, when we were losing as many as 600,000 jobs a month, and the wheels of the global financial market were about to come off the cart. The credit market was frozen. Huge financial Institutions were teetering o the brink. When every Wall Street Expert, and every well respected economist, were all telling us that we were on the brink of the worst depression in our history, a global depression.

Did you actually think that in under two years our economy would be booming again?

LMAO! HA HA HA...we were losing jobs for years before we got rid of Bush. George Bush destroyed our economy, and our reputation. The manufacturing industry, vanished, with no correction from George Bush! We were robbed blind by the Chinese on the Trade Market, for eight years, under Bush. OUr deficits of choice, Republican choice, BTW, were out of sight. Where were all your complaints then?

Two unfinished wars, bleeding us of our treasure, WITH interest, AND medical costs, which have more than doubled in the last ten years, all under Bush.

Hey, Sonny, I am celebrating, that BUSH is GONE, and Republican policies, have been exposed AGAIN for the devastating failures which they have always been.

</span>


your jubilee over the accomplishments of this admin would actually say there should be LESS worries on this day.

<span style="color: #000066">NO. My celebration is solely over that fact that regardless of what we must all face to reverse the tragedy of a Bush/Republikook-Bushwhacked America, thank heaven, the country has seen through Republican Policies, and Republican Representatives, for what they are, Incompetent Failures, who cannot run the government. BRAVO...That give us all a chance to survive what is going to be a long, slow, recovery, as ALL economists have been saying, ALL ALONG.

</span>



So AGAIN, why then would polling among dem registered voters show less approval NOW? There is at worst, the same stuff to be afraid of... at best less things. If fear is the driving motivation in your psychology lesson, then moving to math I'd say something simply doesn't add up in your argument. Logically speaking, of course. If we would like to be illogical, then you may have an argument here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As we see <u>more</u> visible improvment in the job market, the polls will cahnge.
</div></div>

To have more of something one must have some of something. In the job market there has been no improvement, visible or otherwise yet. The only hopeful positive thing to address this is that money is more readily available... unfortunately businesses are afraid to spend those monies out of fear of forthcoming taxes, penalties, etc from new legislation.

<span style="color: #000066">BWA HA HA HA...you just get funnier by the minute. So you think that's the only reason why businesses aren't spending and hiring and thriving?

Hey, fella, it's going to take some time to recover from the worst legacy every left by any administration in history. We are still teetering in the wake of the Bushwhacked society. Things are improving. BRAVO! </span>

It may all work out, we may indeed be saved... but I'm still gonna wait to see it before I quit holding my breath on it if ya don't mind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hence, <u>you can nit pick</u>, whine and complain, and I'll celebrate.
</div></div>

Funny this is in the same post in which you incorrectly try to school me on the use of democrat vs. democratic.

Sack </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Funny? You are the King of the nit-pickers, Sack. I didn't jump on here and try to tell you what to do. I don't care what you think about the economy, frankly, you are too young, and inexperienced, to match wits with me.

I've seen a number of recessions in my time, and have enough awareness about them to understand that this one was far worse than the others. Further, I am greateful that Democratics are the ones in power right now, because everything they are trying to do to bring more regulation of these thieves on Wall Street, is being voted against by Republicans. Everything Democratics are trying to do to protect consumers, Republicans are Voting NO on it.

As for your little no issues on my grammar, and all the time you take to look up something in order to prove me wrong.....Republicans made a huge effort to call us the Democrat party over the last decade, so our response has been to call ourselves, Democratics. The logic behind that is that Republicans do not call themselves, Republics.

Am I going to argue with you about it? No, silly boy, I'm not. I get to write whatever I like, and you get to nit pick, but in this case, it's not even worth mentioning as far as I'm concerned, because it's just one more example of the consistant effort that you righties are will to make, to throw something which YOU think matters, against me. Just more symbolism of your collective anger over the fact that I was right about Bush, right abut the messes he would leave, right about what Republicans would do to the economy, the Middle Class, the jobs in this country, and all of you were WRONG.

Hence, we have master nit pickers on here, who are, frankly, ridiculous.

I have enough social interaction with Democratics to know what we call ourselves, and some vague understanding of how our language tramsforms itself.

So you can take your nit picking, and irrelevent little arguements somewhere else. Along with your sour disposition, and negative outlook... and if I may, I suggest you focus on your own party failures, instead of trying to blow declinging disapproval numbers for this administration way out of proportion, which, historically, are actually not as bad as usual, UNDER the conditions prevailing, and WHICH were all created by Bush and the Republicans.



Hence, you are excellerating your nit picking fest, typo attacks, and all. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Silly boy, try to handle your emotions a little better in the future.

You don't get to tell me what is funny. That is subjective. This is how it works. I get to laugh my arse off every night, about the fact that only one in five, consider themselves Republican.

BWA HA HA HA....Bravo!

Yep, I get to laugh as much as I like, about the fact that Republicans have become so ridiculous, that even their own elder statesmen, are upset over their party of "NO" tactics and their reputation of obstructionism, and their nutjob media clowns.

I also get to rejoice, over the fact that most Americans see the failures of Republican policies, and they now understand who caused our current multi-disasters. Hence, only one in five....etc.

BRAVO!

And I also get to laugh when people on here work overtime, bashing Democratics, and the president, because after nine months, all multi-level Bush disasters haven't yet been completely solved and fully overturned, and the economy isn't booming yet...

BWA HA HA HA...and their partisan based math formulas regarding our deficits, is even more hilarious!

BWA HA HA HA!

Now, if you think that Bush's "deepest recession since the thirties" "nearly the worst depression in history" Or as Bush stated, "Could last as long as a decade" should have been completely reversed by now, and the economy should be booming, All I can say is, HA HA HA! Silly boy!

If you choose to ignore that job hemmoraging which was at over 600,000 a month under Bush, and is now less than half of that, and ignore as well that many jobs have been saved from that list, and losses are declining monthly, fine, ignore all of it, and whine. A very serious depression has been diverted by Obama's team, economists are telling us the recession is over, yet for you all is gloom and doom, too bad.

I am over here laughing, happy to see that most people know how we got into these mulit level quagmires, from the Economy, to Afghanistan to Iraq....and I am thrilled that the vast Republikook Propaganda machine is finally failing in it's quest to deny reality, twist the truth, and turn the country against itself, has lost steam.

The fact that only one in five Americans call themselves Republican, is something to celebrate, considering the damage they have done, and always do to our economy. and all the hard work that lies ahead of us, in trying to overcome the mess they mae.

G.</span>

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 02:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and among democrats, approval of our democratic controlled congress dropped 18 points to 36% since last month. (21% overall approval). They ain't faring so hot either.

Sack </div></div>


Two entirely different things.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..."Even among Republicans, only 40 percent express confidence in the GOP congressional leadership to make good choices".

</div></div>

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 02:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">replied to this in the other thread, so will not copy again here.

But would like to say re: "deep recession"... I thought we were saved? I thought signs were we are on our way out of recession... things are looking up and we are on our way out? Shouldn't the numbers at worst hold, and at best rise? Why is approval among independents cut in half over the last few months? Why is approval among their own party declining so sharply over the last month?

Sack </div></div>
Two entirely different things.

My original point, and statement....


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..."Even among Republicans, only 40 percent express confidence in the GOP congressional leadership to make good choices".

</div></div>

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 02:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was that an answer to my question? Or were you in process of posting this when I posed my question?

Sack

p.s. regardless, I don't find any reason to "celebrate" as posted in the other thread, or anything hilarious about the vast majority of the country being dissatisfied... right or left. I think it's just sad, actually. </div></div>

The vast majority of the country is disatisfied with Republicans, Sack.

The majority of the country approves of Obama.

Only forty percent of REPUBLICANS, trust REPUBLICANS to handle our problems.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nonetheless, large percentages continue to support many of the essential elements of legislation being considered. Two-thirds (66%) favor mandating that all Americans have health insurance, with the government providing financial help for those unable to afford it. Nearly six-in-ten (59%) favor requiring employers to pay into a government health care fund if they do not provide health insurance coverage to their employees. A similar majority (58%) also favors raising taxes on families with incomes of more than $350,000 as a way to pay for reforms. And 55% say they favor a government health insurance plan to compete with private plans, which is largely unchanged from late July (52%).
</div></div>

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 02:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Because jobs are the last to improve in any recession, that's why.</div></div>

Well then we should probably wait before throwing the ticker tape parade, ya know?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Republicans are at 9% approval? And you think the Dems, at 32%, are in trouble?

BWA HA HA HA...

Good one! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>

I could care less whether democrats or republicans are in trouble. The country is in trouble. It doesn't matter whether an (r) or a (d) is winning or losing "the game"... they are each failing and we all lose then. Hell, if democrats were at 2% and republicans at 1% you'd celebrate that fact that democrats are twice as liked as republicans and blow off the fact that the vast majority of people are unhappy.

YOU posted info on how the country is shifting left, you posted info on how those left leaners are more educated and keep better tabs on the news and goings on in this country. So still, can you explain to me how THAT base dropped in support of democrats by 18%? Surely THEY know "jobs are the last thing to recover". Surely that base knows much of the same information you are celebrating. Why then are 2 out of 3 of y'all disapproving?

Sack </div></div>

Why don't you worry about your own party? You are the ones losing people by the droves, not us. I'm not worried about mine, at all.

Oh, and thanks for high-jacking my thread. You completely ignored all the points in the original post, and used it as another nit-picking rant fest.

Feel any better? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

sack316
10-23-2009, 10:14 AM
Wow, sorry if I set ya off. Seems you have spent this morning defending words that do not exist, replying a second time to things I said that you replied to yesterday, saying "these are entirely different things" just because you said so, basically repeating many of the same things that I did not take issue with in the first place, etc. I wouldn't even know where to begin...

But you are correct, it does seem I hijacked the thread and it moved away from your original post. Of course, you had no problems continuing it, but for my part in the beginning I'm sorry. I should have created another thread on the topics I brought up.

So I will try to go back to your original post for you:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It is an absolute RIOT to log on here, and see posts, comparing Bush's deficits, to Obama's deficits, when there is no final talley on Obama's deficits!</div></div>

You are right. Looking at projections it's likely there will be no comparison. Bush spent and ran up the deficit like a madman. At the current rate, and what it will take to accomplish all the things the current admin says it will, we will be spending and running up the deficit like a... (may have to create a new adjective for this). I have seen no tangible proof of any ideas or plans that will reduce the deficit over the course of this term(s). But I do still think he's a two term president, so there's still plenty of time... I would just like to know how.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I notice that the interest on Bush's massive borrowing, and spending, waste and misplaced money, adding up into the multi trillions, the costs of health care for many thousands of American soldiers who have been rendered handicapped, for the rest of their lives, not included, war deficits with interest, which were hidden throughout, simply ignored! </div></div>

You are dead on the money here. It's a shame, it's irresponsible, and a much overlooked black mark on us. But what is being done to correct this portion of the mess? (seriously asking)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If we were to add up the on-going costs of Bush's two mismanaged failures in the Middle East, plus interest, and resulting on-going health costs, Obama's "No choice but to spend to divert disaster" circumstances would look like a DEAL!</div></div>

I can only hope so.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As usual, some who assume they are blessed with "Common sense" still blind to the principles of critical thinking, such as, "Under the conditions prevailing"!</div></div>

I happen to feel this is simply where difference of opinions come in. I don't recall anyone saying "do nothing" at any point, for any of the crisis, though I could be mistaken. IIRC, most of the debate has been on how we go about addressing the issues, and what impact actions on "conditions prevailing" now will have on conditions in the future. Simply put: I believe you feel saving ourselves presently yields a safe us tomorrow, whereas I worry how we save ourselves today may only lead to the creation of another crisis in the future. Valid points can be made for either opinion, and at this point neither could say it is right or wrong... unfortunately we'd just have to wait and see.

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 10:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, sorry if I set ya off.

<span style="color: #000066">You didn't set me off at all. I was just responding to your points. </span>

Seems you have spent this morning defending words that do not exist,

<span style="color: #000066">LOL, the word, "Democratic" does exist, I am merely pointing out to you that language changes, over time, and using the word as a noun, is very common where I live, and we hope will become the future description of those of us who are Democratics. </span>

replying a second time to things I said that you replied to yesterday, saying "these are entirely different things" just because you said so, basically repeating many of the same things that I did not take issue with in the first place, etc. I wouldn't even know where to begin...

<span style="color: #000066">Sorry you're having such a hard time keeping up. </span>

But you are correct, it does seem I hijacked the thread and it moved away from your original post. Of course, you had no problems continuing it, but for my part in the beginning I'm sorry. I should have created another thread on the topics I brought up.

So I will try to go back to your original post for you:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It is an absolute RIOT to log on here, and see posts, comparing Bush's deficits, to Obama's deficits, when there is no final talley on Obama's deficits!</div></div>

You are right. Looking at projections it's likely there will be no comparison. Bush spent and ran up the deficit like a madman. At the current rate, and what it will take to accomplish all the things the current admin says it will, we will be spending and running up the deficit like a... (may have to create a new adjective for this). I have seen no tangible proof of any ideas or plans that will reduce the deficit over the course of this term(s). But I do still think he's a two term president, so there's still plenty of time... I would just like to know how.

<span style="color: #000066">So would I, and what I hope to see is a severe cut back on defense spending, which is, and has been, totally out of hand for decades.

Why do we need people stationed all over the world?

Why should we stay in Afghanistan, when al Qaeda isn't there?

Why should we waste out time training and arming more illiterate, corrupt people in the middle east?

Why do we allow3 subsidies for corporations that are making record breaking profits?

We are constantly giving money to corporatioons, for purposes which they never live up to in the first place.

Giving away billions to leaders in the Middle East, who never keep their promises.

Allowing certain industries to have an unfair advantage on all of us, American consumers.

Personally, I think we've been getting railroaded for a long time, and it's time to see some transformation, on lots of things.

The hold up, as I see it, is the Republican cabal, trying to block everything for the sake of the corporations, all of the Republicans, and about twelve Democratics.
</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I notice that the interest on Bush's massive borrowing, and spending, waste and misplaced money, adding up into the multi trillions, the costs of health care for many thousands of American soldiers who have been rendered handicapped, for the rest of their lives, not included, war deficits with interest, which were hidden throughout, simply ignored! </div></div>

You are dead on the money here. It's a shame, it's irresponsible, and a much overlooked black mark on us. But what is being done to correct this portion of the mess? (seriously asking)

One thing that Democratics are trying to do is reign in health costs and health insurance costs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If we were to add up the on-going costs of Bush's two mismanaged failures in the Middle East, plus interest, and resulting on-going health costs, Obama's "No choice but to spend to divert disaster" circumstances would look like a DEAL!</div></div>

I can only hope so.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As usual, some who assume they are blessed with "Common sense" still blind to the principles of critical thinking, such as, "Under the conditions prevailing"!</div></div>

I happen to feel this is simply where difference of opinions come in. I don't recall anyone saying "do nothing" at any point, for any of the crisis, though I could be mistaken.

<span style="color: #000066">Well I'm surprised that you would say that, because there were plenty, both here, and on the Senate Floor, saying, just let the banks fail, and let the market correct itself. Total stupidity, given the critical circumstances, don't you think so? </span>

IIRC, most of the debate has been on how we go about addressing the issues, and what impact actions on "conditions prevailing" now will have on conditions in the future. Simply put: I believe you feel saving ourselves presently yields a safe us tomorrow, <span style="color: #000066">If you're going to be the grammar police, the preceeding sentence won't qualify you! </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif whereas I worry how we save ourselves today may only lead to the creation of another crisis in the future. Valid points can be made for either opinion, and at this point neither could say it is right or wrong... unfortunately we'd just have to wait and see.

Sack </div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">I never said all is well, just that I'm glad that Republicans are not running things right now, and that it is ridiculous for some here to be comparing Obama deficit wise, to Bush, when we are only nine months into his administration, and this country is still teetering, trying to fully recover from a very deep recession.

G.</span>

pooltchr
10-23-2009, 11:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[it is ridiculous for some here to be comparing Obama deficit wise, to Bush, when we are only nine months into his administration, </div></div>

What is ridiculous is to see what he has already done in his first 9 months, spending more in one freaking bill than the entire cost of the Iraq war, and not being the slightest bit concerned that he is promising to spend even more if he gets his way.

Do you hate your children and grandchildren, or do you just not care that their future is being sold out by this idiot, and you support him because he is a Democrat?

Steve

sack316
10-23-2009, 11:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #000066">You didn't set me off at all. I was just responding to your points. </span> </div></div>

very well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000066">LOL, the word, "Democratic" does exist, I am merely pointing out to you that language changes, over time, and using the word as a noun, is very common where I live, and we hope will become the future description of those of us who are Democratics. </span> </div></div>

My apologies if I can't keep up with the slang you crazy kids come up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif But in all seriousness, I've never heard the term used as a noun other than from you on here. Not on interviews with democratic representatives (it's proper there), not on statements, not in papers, not anywhere else except from you. I have never heard the words "I am a democratic" or "my fellow democratics", or any similar usage in that form.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #000066">...The hold up, as I see it, is the Republican cabal, trying to block everything for the sake of the corporations, all of the Republicans, and about twelve Democratics. </span> </div></div>

they don't need a single republican to get anything done.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #000066">Well I'm surprised that you would say that, because there were plenty, both here, and on the Senate Floor, saying, just let the banks fail, and let the market correct itself. Total stupidity, given the critical circumstances, don't you think so? </span> </div></div>

I actually agree, spending was necessary. I do believe in a true free market system the market could indeed correct itself, but we are a "free market" system in name only and have been that way for some time. As such, I seriously doubt it would have been allowed to do so, and SOME spending was necessary. Where and how and how much to whom, and what restrictions and rules went along with it is another story entirely, and I believe that was the shortfall in all the bailouts since last year. We didn't say "here's some money to get on your feet, but since it's OUR money this is how it's going to be"... we just said "here's some money", put a band-aid on the problem and didn't address the issues that caused such problems in the first place. And we still haven't.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000066">I never said all is well, just that I'm glad that Republicans are not running things right now, and that it is ridiculous for some here to be comparing Obama deficit wise, to Bush, when we are only nine months into his administration, and this country is still teetering, trying to fully recover from a very deep recession.
G.</span> </div></div>

Truth be told I'm glad republicans aren't running things right now either. I just happen to feel democrat(ic)s aren't going down a much better path either.

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 12:05 PM
You are going to see limits on salaries from those who took the money. It is under review, right now.

You are also going to see more regulations on the financial institutions and on the banks, to prevent this from happenig again, also already under review.

G.

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 01:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and among democrats, approval of our democratic controlled congress dropped 18 points to 36% since last month. (21% overall approval). They ain't faring so hot either.

Sack </div></div>

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Rasmussen Polls slant to the right. Always have, always will. He's as far right as it gets, has a background with the REpublican party, worked for W in the Campaign, and their approval polls are the worst, because of the phrasing.

pooltchr
10-23-2009, 01:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are going to see limits on salaries from those who took the money. It is under review, right now.

You are also going to see more regulations on the financial institutions and on the banks, to prevent this from happenig again, also already under review.

G. </div></div>

Going to see??? It already happened. The government has forced Ken Lewis to <u>pay back his entire 2009 salary. </u> Even by government standards, that is outrageous. If they can tell him he has to work for a year for nothing, is there any limit to what they can do? And you are just fine with it, because he worked for a bank, and you don't like banks. But remember, if they can do it to him, they can do it to anybody...even you!

Steve

sack316
10-23-2009, 09:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are going to see limits on salaries from those who took the money. It is under review, right now.</div></div>

I agree that they should have some level of control over such things IF the institution took money. From what I understand, though, is that the review right now includes any entity under regulation of government. That's a little too broad of a scope, IMO, which would include entities that did not receive money.

Sack

Gayle in MD
10-23-2009, 10:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are going to see limits on salaries from those who took the money. It is under review, right now.</div></div>

I agree that they should have some level of control over such things IF the institution took money. From what I understand, though, is that the review right now includes any entity under regulation of government. That's a little too broad of a scope, IMO, which would include entities that did not receive money.

Sack </div></div>

Well, I'd like to see some documentation for that, as I haven't seen anything about that.

Those who created the Wall Street Scam, require stiffer regulations, obviously. Those who took the taxpayers money, should have to answer for the fact that they are not doing for the country, what they promised to do, with the money, free up credit to small business, for example, and stop taking risks which they cannot back up. No more slicing and dicing, and no more stunningly foolish derivatives trading, hidden from public view.

I have not heard anything about any overall government interference into any corporate financial transactions, salaries or otherwise, other than those to which our tax dollars have been given on loan in the form of bail outs, and those which have always been under the overview of regulatory entities..

Corruption in the financial industry, and health insurance industry, is surely up for regulation, Since Americans are being robbed by both, and the country cannot survive their corrupt practices, even though Greenspan admitted that fraud, for him at least, was no problemo, at all, most of the country wouldn't agree with his take, typically Republican, at all.

Traditionally, consumers are protected by state and government agencies. That goes all the way back to the sweat shops. Real Estate, is regulated, as many other industries, Medicine, Food, banking, etc... I see no reason why comsumer protection, employee protection, and environmental protection, among other things, should not be continue to be legislated, and overseen, by the government and other of our law enforcement and legal agencies.

We are, after all, in this mess because foolish people on the right, Reagan, for one, believed that corporations in the Financial Industry, could be trusted to overcome their own greed and penchant for corruption, and the free market would solve everything, without regulatory intervention. I'd say that myth has been blow away given what we've witnessed.

As Greenspan admitted, a very foolish assumption, just as building our economy upon the service industry alone, was foolish. These people who don't produce anything at all, and take hidden risks with other people's money, without funds to back them up, should be held to account for their dirty dealings, IMO. As for your other statement, I know nothing of that, but would be interested, as I said, in seeng any documentation.

G.

Sev
10-24-2009, 07:38 AM
When did we loose Iraq???
By the media silence things must be going quite well.

Now if Obama would stop voting present on Afghanistan that would be nice.