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Qtec
11-05-2009, 12:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There will be much number-crunching tomorrow, but preliminary numbers (at least in Virginia) show that GOP turnout remained the same as last year, but Democratic turnout collapsed. This is a base problem, and this is what Democrats better take from tonight:

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>1. If you abandon Democratic principles in a bid for unnecessary "bipartisanship", you will lose votes.

2. If you water down reform in favor of Blue Dogs and their corporate benefactors, you will lose votes.

3. If you forget why you were elected -- health care, financial services, energy policy and immigration reform -- you will lose votes.</span>

Tonight proved conclusively that we're not going to turn out just because you have a (D) next to your name, or because Obama tells us to. We'll turn out if we feel it's worth our time and effort to vote, and we'll work hard to make sure others turn out if you inspire us with bold and decisive action.

The choice is yours. Give us a reason to vote for you, or we sit home. And you aren't going to make up the margins with conservative voters. They already know exactly who they're voting for, and it ain't you. </div></div> too true (http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/lessons)

Q

LWW
11-05-2009, 02:41 AM
Here's the real lessons:

1 - With a charismatic leader you can hide your true agenda until you gain power.

2 - Once that agenda becomes apparent your base will abandon you.

LWW

Gayle in MD
11-05-2009, 07:56 AM
A lot of truth there, but it's still being blown into more than it was, IMO.

Democratics won in up-state NY in a district that hasn't been Democratic in over a hundred years!

They also won two Republican Congressional seats.

Factor in that the candidate in Virginia operated one of the worst campaigns in history, and it was more like a draw.

But, no doubt, Democratics need to throw the Republicans and the blue dogs, under the bus!

One good thing about all of it, too, is that it was proof that Palin has nobody in her camp! She might as well just STFU!

My dream is that Cheney and his man child will stay out there in the forefront, and the Bachmans, Becks of the right will rev it up reall good! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

CBO has reported two decades of savings from the current bill. While it isn't everything the hard left wanted, it's a start, and will continue to be adjusted...

If Obama will just get out of Iraq, and winde down Afghanistan, Dems have a great chance in 2012, since the exit polls showed quite clearly that this was not a referendum on Obama, and his approvals are still very high for a president during a recession, and this one is the worst we've seen in many a year.

Republicans will have a tough time trying to look moderate, and that's their only hope, and given all their decades of divisive social issues, moraally induced hatespeak, they are still playing with a stacked deck, stacked against them, as is proven by their miserable numbers.

G.

G.

Deeman3
11-05-2009, 08:30 AM
Democrats on Capitol Hill began a nervous debate Wednesday about the course President Obama has set for their party, with some questioning whether they should emphasize job creation over some of the more ambitious items on the president's agenda.

The conversations came as White House officials insisted that the party's gubernatorial defeats in Virginia and New Jersey had few implications for Obama's standing or for Democratic prospects in the 2010 midterm elections.

But moderate and conservative Democrats took a clear signal from Tuesday's voting, warning that the results prove that independent voters are wary of Obama's far-reaching proposals and mounting spending, as well as the growing federal debt. Liberal lawmakers, meanwhile, said the party's shortcoming came in moving too slowly on health-care reform and other items that would satisfy a base becoming disenchanted with the failure to deliver rapid change in government.

Voters in both states cited the economy as by far their top concern, and many lawmakers said the outcomes were a blunt wake-up call to put the issue front and center.

"The question is, do people think we're tending to the things they care about?" said Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV


I appears not all Democrats are as comfortable with the "Victory" on Tuesday night as you guys are. It you think the blue dogs and moderates were spooked before, just wait. Do they really want to stick their political future on a 2,000 page helath care plan that only Nancy has read, or at least scanned? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Problem seems to be that the masses of people who support Obama happen to be the ones who do not vote very often and he certainly was not able to muster any of them this time.

Qtec
11-05-2009, 08:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Can't Win with 'Em...</span>

* Christopher Orr
* November 4, 2009 | 1:38 pm

Dave Weigel's dispatch from NY-23 [1] last night <span style='font-size: 14pt'>describes <u>the evolving message </u>of the Hoffman camp:</span>

Hours before the polls closed, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Hoffman backers were echoing the pundits’ spin–this race would be a referendum on President Obama, and a victory for Hoffman would put the brakes on health care reform by making Democrats worry about challenges to their re-elections in 2010. <u>As a Hoffman victory became more and more remote, the rhetoric changed. The message became the message of two weeks ago. </u>This election wasn’t about showing Republicans that conservatives could win. It was about showing Republicans that they couldn’t win without conservatives.</span>

The irony, of course, is that the race didn't show any such thing. Insofar as it demonstrated anything--and the last week or so was chaotic enough that one could easily maintain it didn't--the message was exactly the opposite of what the Hoffmanites claim. <u>Had Dede Scozzafava stayed in the race, and lost, then perhaps the takeaway would be that Republicans can't win without conservatives. But given that she dropped out, bequeathing the party a head-to-head Hoffman-Owens race, </u><span style='font-size: 20pt'>the only remotely intelligible reading of Hoffman's loss is that Republicans can't win without moderates.</span>
</div></div>

A minority of extremists are trying to take over the GOP. They want to dictate who runs and who doesn't.....sound like Fascism to you?


Q

pooltchr
11-05-2009, 08:35 AM
You just go ahead and keep telling yourself that. Try to see it all with your rose colored glasses.
Your radical left heros will have a rude awakening.

And why would Republicans want to appear moderate? That is what cost them much of their support. Republicans need to move back to more conservative philosophy, and quit trying to be lightweight democrats. The independents move to the Republican candidates this week proves that quite well.

Steve

wolfdancer
11-05-2009, 10:05 AM
After 8 years of Herr Bush and his apparatchiks (a bureaucrat who willingly follows and implements the party line, either in a spirit of blind obedience or one of cynical ambition.)
I thought they had already taken over control of the once, proud Republican Party.
A didn't realize though, that one had to be an extremist, or else he would be considered a "democrat light" I guess that would then exclude, on the part of the "real" Republicans, working out any compromises with the moderate Democrats.
Sounds fair to me.....
We could end up like the Japanese "Senate" where they start punching each other out.

Gayle in MD
11-05-2009, 10:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Democrats on Capitol Hill began a nervous debate Wednesday about the course President Obama has set for their party, with some questioning whether they should emphasize job creation over some of the more ambitious items on the president's agenda.

The conversations came as White House officials insisted that the party's gubernatorial defeats in Virginia and New Jersey had few implications for Obama's standing or for Democratic prospects in the 2010 midterm elections.

But moderate and conservative Democrats took a clear signal from Tuesday's voting, warning that the results prove that independent voters are wary of Obama's far-reaching proposals and mounting spending, as well as the growing federal debt. Liberal lawmakers, meanwhile, said the party's shortcoming came in moving too slowly on health-care reform and other items that would satisfy a base becoming disenchanted with the failure to deliver rapid change in government.

Voters in both states cited the economy as by far their top concern, and many lawmakers said the outcomes were a blunt wake-up call to put the issue front and center.

"The question is, do people think we're tending to the things they care about?" said Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV


I appears not all Democrats are as comfortable with the "Victory" on Tuesday night as you guys are. It you think the blue dogs and moderates were spooked before, just wait. Do they really want to stick their political future on a 2,000 page helath care plan that only Nancy has read, or at least scanned? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Problem seems to be that the masses of people who support Obama happen to be the ones who do not vote very often and he certainly was not able to muster any of them this time. </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">So are you going to post the link to the part you have stolen, and written as you own? Where did it come from, The Weekly Standard, Politico maybe, or was it straight from the WSJ?

The polls showed that the people don't blame Obama, or the Demoratics, for the bad economy...that's what is important.

Recent polls show that if there is no improvement in the economy by the next election, those who would support Obama, would still have a majority by a few points...

hence, you'd better worry about your own, one in five, party....most folks still blame Bush, by far, for this bad economy, and Virginia, was not a win for your party, at all, it was a case of very poor campaigning by the Democratic candidate...who failed to speak out about his policies, and plans...

NJ, also, a local situation, not national at all....and given the blubber of the guy who won, who knows if he'll even last two years before he drops over...LOL, he's going to have a hard time bashing reliable health care, that's for sure... </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Deeman3
11-05-2009, 10:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="color: #000066">So are you going to post the link to the part you have stolen, and written as you own? Where did it come from, The Weekly Standard, Politico maybe, or was it straight from the WSJ?

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Gayle, I have never pretended to have written something I did not. The above, less my paragraph at the bottom, came off the MSNBC page on my browser but was, I think, a Washington Post article. I have never put a lick in any of my posts for over 12 years. </span>

The polls showed that the people don't blame Obama, or the Demoratics, for the bad economy...that's what is important.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Those may be the same polls that showed the NJ race for Govenor neck and neck but, in truth, the pools don't matter. The fact that Obama is losing traction with the electorate is what counts. </span>

Recent polls show that if there is no improvement in the economy by the next election, those who would support Obama, would still have a majority by a few points...

<span style="color: #FF0000">Perhaps, it they were the type to actually go out and vote, it might have impact. </span>

hence, you'd better worry about your own, one in five, party....most folks still blame Bush, by far, for this bad economy, and Virginia, was not a win for your party, at all, it was a case of very poor campaigning by the Democratic candidate...who failed to speak out about his policies, and plans...

<span style="color: #FF0000"> I know you have to flag for the party, like Pelosi, but certainly even you do not believe that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

NJ, also, a local situation, not national at all....and given the blubber of the guy who won, who knows if he'll even last two years before he drops over...LOL, he's going to have a hard time bashing reliable health care, that's for sure... </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well, if he does outweigh our new Surgeon General, it is not by much.

I don't rememebr you saying much about Teddy Kennedy's fat ass very often. You are only respectful of people who share your twisted view of politics and anything that shows a growing rejection of those liberal left policies makes you show your hate for people who have not harmed you but only expressed their views. The overweight governor elect apparently was slim enough to get elected in one the most liberal states in the country showing even their own no longer trust the left o manage money, health care or much else.

Hey, you had your chance, get ready for lame duck time. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span> </div></div>

pooltchr
11-05-2009, 11:10 AM
I wonder how important Virginia and New Jersey would have been, had the Dems won? Do you think they would be playing down the importance of them, or proudly proclaiming that the Dems are all powerful, and the Reps are just dead in the water?

eg8r
11-05-2009, 11:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and given the blubber of the guy who won, who knows if he'll even last two years before he drops over...</div></div>LOL, such nice things coming from someone with her own medical problems.

eg8r

eg8r
11-05-2009, 11:24 AM
Deeman, you hit the nail on the head.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-05-2009, 11:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">So are you going to post the link to the part you have stolen, and written as you own? Where did it come from, The Weekly Standard, Politico maybe, or was it straight from the WSJ?

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Gayle, I have never pretended to have written something I did not. The above, less my paragraph at the bottom, came off the MSNBC page on my browser but was, I think, a Washington Post article. I have never put a lick in any of my posts for over 12 years. </span>

<span style="color: #000066">Generally speaking, no quotes, and no links indicates that you have written the entire post, does it not???? </span>

The polls showed that the people don't blame Obama, or the Demoratics, for the bad economy...that's what is important.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Those may be the same polls that showed the NJ race for Govenor neck and neck but, in truth, the pools don't matter. The fact that Obama is losing traction with the electorate is what counts. </span>


<span style="color: #000066">Thst isnot true as regards these elections, Deeman. The people were asked if their votes reflected anything about the president. As I recall, something like eighty percent, said NO. Almost all of them, stated, the economy was their biggest issues, as as we know, most people blame Bush for the economy, no Obama. Hence, I'd say, you are the one, with the wishful thinking...a member of the only one in five, are Republicans.... </span>
Recent polls show that if there is no improvement in the economy by the next election, those who would support Obama, would still have a majority by a few points...

<span style="color: #FF0000">Perhaps, it they were the type to actually go out and vote, it might have impact. </span>

<span style="color: #000066">Apparently, you have already forgotten the last presidential election, which, as I recall, you pooh poohed, as well, and even tried to dilute the millions all over the world, celebrating his win...but then, you Are, after all, a partisan REpublican, who supports the Party's biggest hatespeakers, against other, decent Amricans, the poor, and the homosexual population...</span>

hence, you'd better worry about your own, one in five, party....most folks still blame Bush, by far, for this bad economy, and Virginia, was not a win for your party, at all, it was a case of very poor campaigning by the Democratic candidate...who failed to speak out about his policies, and plans...

<span style="color: #FF0000"> I know you have to flag for the party, like Pelosi, but certainly even you do not believe that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

<span style="color: #000066">LMAO. Coming from a man who consistantly maintained that the war in Iraq, was distracting al Qaeda from attacking us, during the entire span of time that they orchestrated more and more attacks across the globe, franchised, and spread their training centers, and ramped up their recruitment numbers, I'll just take that accusation as a compliment....from someone without much of a record of accurate expectation. </span>

NJ, also, a local situation, not national at all....and given the blubber of the guy who won, who knows if he'll even last two years before he drops over...LOL, he's going to have a hard time bashing reliable health care, that's for sure... </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well, if he does outweigh our new Surgeon General, it is not by much.


<span style="color: #000066">You have got to be kidding me! Perhaps being a man, you have a double standard about what is OBESE! The man loooks to weigh over three hundred pounds. Now, please, don't try to tell me that she is anywhere near that! He looks like Pluto! His head looks too damn small for his body! Three men standing there, and you call me partisan? BWA HA HA HA...you are so funny, Deeman... </span>

I don't rememebr you saying much about Teddy Kennedy's fat ass very often.
<span style="color: #000066">Teddy Kennedy was never the size of this guy, never, and anyway, Teddy was handicapped, remember, a back broken in many places, which was evident in his slumped figure, as he aged, and could barely get around, and hence, more likely to become overweight, however, he never let that slow him down, and continued to sail, and legislate, until nearly the very end, not to mention, he was FOR universal health care, not against it, which is exactly what I was referring to in the first place... How does a morbidly obeses man, sand against health reform, when obesity costs this country more than any other single thing....????Even more that smoking! Not to mention the mental ilnesses connected to obesity, AND that FACT that even if one loses weight, their damage from an obese childhood, still makes them more likely to develope serious health issues, IOW, Fat kids don't recover from half a lifetime of obesity, the number one cause of disease.</span>

You are only respectful of people who share your twisted view of politics and anything that shows a growing rejection of those liberal left policies makes you show your hate


<span style="color: #000066"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>Uh, just hold on one minute, Deeman, you don't get to lie about me..</span>.I hate no one. And, also, I would think that accusation beneath you, but then, I guess desperation has set in, as I see it all around, coming from the right...

Not to mention, I can prove that I have honored many Republicans on this forum, which you have never done, IIRC.... </span>


for people who have not harmed you but only expressed their views. The overweight governor elect apparently was slim enough to get elected in one the most liberal states in the country showing even their own no longer trust the left o manage money, health care or much else.


<span style="color: #000066">Hey, Deeman, you were the first person on here to attack me for my own views, remember? then, you wrote an entire thread, asking others who they most enjoyed irritating, and named me as your all time favorite.

So, don't give me that Bullsh8t, Deeman, you have no room to accuse anyone of anything around here... </span>

Hey, you had your chance, get ready for lame duck time. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span> [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">We'll see, won't we, and when you're wrong, you'll never admit it, that much we know for sure.... remember Iraq?</span>

eg8r
11-05-2009, 11:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gaylio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uh, just hold on one minute, Deeman, you don't get to lie about me...I hate no one. </div></div> Liar. I guess you are the only one that gets to lie about people?

eg8r