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Chopstick
11-14-2009, 05:02 AM
and everyone at Walter Reed knew it. Religious extremism is not currently classified as a mental illness. He totally freaked out the whole staff.

Hasan at Walter Reed (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816)

<span style="color: #000099">ZWERDLING: Earlier today, I spoke to a psychiatrist who worked very closely with Hasan and knows him very well. And he said, you know, from the beginning -and Hasan was there for four years - the medical staff was very worried about this guy. He said the first thing is he's cold, unfriendly. At least that's who he came off. He did not do a good job as a psychiatrist in training, was repeatedly warned, you better shape up, or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. Did badly in his classes, seemed disinterested. But second of all - and this is, perhaps, you know, more relevant. The psychiatrist says that he was very proud and upfront about being Muslim. And psychiatrist hastened to say, and nobody minded that. But he seemed almost belligerent about being Muslim, and he gave a lecture one day that really freaked a lot of doctors out.

They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he - Hasan apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is poured down your throat. </span>

Gayle in MD
11-14-2009, 08:27 AM
AND the question is why the hell didn't they DO anything about it?

That question will be answered as time goes on, since there is an investigation going on.

So far, they are saying the man is psychotic. So far, they are saying that any foreign contacts were without relevance, and without any connection to the eventual act.

The right has one goal, and that is to turn this into some sort of liberal cause, even though, clearly, Military regulations, Military authority, Military oversight, was the rule of the day, and also, failed.

Too bad, Obama didn't get PDB's everyday, for months, "Military Psychiatrist Determined to Kill Soliders Inside The United states"

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

G.

cushioncrawler
11-14-2009, 03:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and everyone at Walter Reed knew it. Religious extremism is not currently classified as a mental illness. He totally freaked out the whole staff.......<span style="color: #000099">ZWERDLING: Earlier today, I spoke to a psychiatrist who worked very closely with Hasan and knows him very well. And he said, you know, from the beginning -and Hasan was there for four years - the medical staff was very worried about this guy. He said the first thing is he's cold, unfriendly. At least that's who he came off. He did not do a good job as a psychiatrist in training, was repeatedly warned, you better shape up, or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. Did badly in his classes, seemed disinterested. But second of all - and this is, perhaps, you know, more relevant. The psychiatrist says that he was very proud and upfront about being Muslim. And psychiatrist hastened to say, and nobody minded that. But he seemed almost belligerent about being Muslim, and he gave a lecture one day that really freaked a lot of doctors out.They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he - Hasan apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is poured down your throat.</span></div></div>Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims.
Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society.
madMac.

cushioncrawler
11-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Religious Tolerance (from Skeptiks annotated Quran)
• 2:286, 3:147 "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk."
• 4:91 "Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant."
• 4:101 "The disbelievers are an open enemy to you."
• 8:39 "Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah."
• 9:5 "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush."
• 9:29 "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah."
• 9:73 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."
• 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you."
• 22:15 "Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself."
• 28:86 "Never be a helper to the disbelievers."
• 66:9 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

cushioncrawler
11-14-2009, 04:24 PM
What the Quran says about Holy War (from the Skeptiks Annotated Quran)
1. Slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out ... if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:191
2. Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you. 2:216
3. Fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. 4:74
4. Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
5. They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them. 4:89
6. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant. 4:91
7. The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom. 5:33
8. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 8:12
9. When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end. Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw. 8:15-17
10. And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. 8:59-60
11. Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence. 8:65
12. It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. 8:67
13. Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5
14. If they ... assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief ... Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first? What! Fear ye them? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them. 9:12-14
15. O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. 9:73
16. Believers ... shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. 9:111
17. O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123
18. Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks. 47:4

cushioncrawler
11-14-2009, 04:27 PM
Atheists havta look out three ways........
madMac.

"......Believers ... shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. 9:111 ....."

cushioncrawler
11-14-2009, 04:36 PM
Christians will point out that the old testament woz from say 600 years before Jesus -- and mostly aint very important to Christians.
But the Quran iz from 600 years after Jesus -- i guess that Muslims are thusly about 600 years or even 1200 years behind in their thinking.
Catholic Priests were prix up untill say 200 years ago -- so, we only havta wait 400 years or praps 1000 years for Muslim Priests to chill'out.
madMac.

cushioncrawler
11-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Terrorism (from The Skeptiks Annotated Quran)
• 3:151 "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve."
4:74 "Fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
• 4:76 "Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil."
• 4:91 "Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant."
• 8:12 "I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."
• 21:97 "Behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve!"
• 33:35-36 "Allah repulsed the disbelievers. ... He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.
• 59:2 "He it is Who hath caused those of the People of the Scripture who disbelieved to go forth from their homes unto the first exile. Ye deemed not that they would go forth, while they deemed that their strongholds would protect them from Allah. But Allah reached them from a place whereof they recked not, and cast terror in their hearts so that they ruined their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers. So learn a lesson, O ye who have eyes!"
• 59:13 "Ye are more awful as a fear in their bosoms than Allah.

Sid_Vicious
11-14-2009, 05:47 PM
I see absolutely no problem if the military induction system, at ANY time, should be able to give a polygraph to a soldier to declare his/her pledge to the USA's doctrine, and I especially AM including Muslims during a 2-war against muslim nations, F-The-political-correctness! IMHO, very sincere opinion...I think the families of the slain kids that day should get a lawyer and sue for millions EACH for dereliction of duties by the US government for avoiding the obvious signs. Between the illegal mexican rapists b@stards abusing 4yr old girls, then being let go in Mexico w/o trial, and this BS activity from our wonderful government protectors in charge, heads should have to seriously roll. Martin

pooltchr
11-14-2009, 07:17 PM
I agree. The guy was a terrorist, pure and simple. The fact that he used guns and not bombs or airplanes doesn't change the facts. Gayle thinks he was deranged. I think the people who flew jets into the WTC were deranged as well, but at least we recognized them for what they were...extremists bent on destroying our country. Trying to coddle this guy, or make excuses for him like he was mentally ill are idiotic.
The guy had a plan to kill innocent Americans on American soil, and he carried out his plan.

He has had documented contact with known terrorists, and terrorist supporters.

There is no doubt he is a terrorist. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or stupid.

Steve

wolfdancer
11-15-2009, 03:25 AM
A Muslim extremist??? an here I thought he was a conservative Republican. Was this one of them threads, where if I didn't read it here, as some poster wrote, I couldn't get educated?
Sometimes when I see a thread like this, I'm reminded of the famous last words of Gen. George Custer.."don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes"...no that wasn't it....now i remember:
"Look at all them f*****g Indians"
You might not see the connection at first to Hasan, but then neither do I.

LWW
11-15-2009, 09:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AND the question is why the hell didn't they DO anything about it?
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G. </div></div>

Actually ... he was, or the people he placed in charge were.

When one starts handing out business cards marked "SOLDIER OF ALLAH" you can't get much more of a warning sign.

The new admin has made it very clear it is now US policy to never offend Islam under any circumstance.

Joe Biden was right. Obama was tested, and he failed. 14 Americans are dead in the name of PC and because of PC the perp won't even be prosecuted for #14.

LWW

Gayle in MD
11-15-2009, 01:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Muslim extremist??? an here I thought he was a conservative Republican. Was this one of them threads, where if I didn't read it here, as some poster wrote, I couldn't get educated?
Sometimes when I see a thread like this, I'm reminded of the famous last words of Gen. George Custer.."don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes"...no that wasn't it....now i remember:
"Look at all them f*****g Indians"
You might not see the connection at first to Hasan, but then neither do I. </div></div>


/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Republicans look pretty shabby, IMO... trying to use what happened in Texas, for political gain, by comparing it to 9/11, they prove their own ignorance. This cannot be a failure on Obama's part, since not one red flag was sent up the poll, to anyone even near the White House...totally different from Bush ignoring unprecedented and specific threats for eight months!

George Bush is the only president who was warned in advance, with unprecedentedm SPECIFIC warnings, from the top Intelligence Agency, CIA AND the Counter Terrorist Czar, and then chose to ignore it completely, having done absolutely NOTHING in response.

Regardless of what they call this sicko in Texas, the fact is that our military has been actively seeking Muslims who can speak Middle East languages. We are short of doctors, particularly psychiatrists, and we have many more suffering from PTSD, than in other wars, due to frequent redeployments, too close together.

These Christians on here apparently hate all Muslims. I guess we can add Muslims to all the other groups they hate.

The Military failed to prevent this disaster. That's the bottom line. They were the ones with the professional relationship to the perp, and their organization failed to secure someone who they should have arrested, or secured inside a psychiatric facility.

There was no intelligence warning to the White House, the Administration, the NSA, nor to President Obama, and hence, no comparison to Bush's fiasco, regardless of what they end up calling this guy...

Their ignorance is stunning. The fact that this religious nut called out the name of his God, has nothing to do with anything. That fact alone, does not make him a terrorist, but it does make him a religious extremist, off his rocker, no doubt.

Now if we were to jail all the religious extremists in this country, the Republican party wouldn't exist! As for me, I'm all for it! Lock up all the religious nuts! Lock up all the fundamentalists, and other religious radicals! Right on! Let's go pick up Palin and Bachmann, Foxx and all the rest of them immediately!

Hey, LETS ROLL! Anyone have llotter's address?

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pooltchr
11-15-2009, 02:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[ This cannot be a failure on Obama's part, since not one red flag was sent up the poll,
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

</div></div>

Keep telling yourself that. I just love to watch you ignore facts so you can maintain your own twisted view of things!

Steve

wolfdancer
11-15-2009, 02:39 PM
I think you have answered the question, nicely, that Steve wanted me to do for him. As to 9/11, it does seem there were overlooked warnings..., on the other hand, President Obama does not oversee keeping tabs on every potential nut case in America, or else he might be camped out in W. Virginia... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-15-2009, 02:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you have answered the question, nicely, that Steve wanted me to do for him. As to 9/11, it does seem there were overlooked warnings..., on the other hand, President Obama does not oversee keeping tabs on every potential nut case in America, or else he might be camped out in W. Virginia... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
</div></div>

Any Southern State would do as well as any wilderness area in the country.... more radical, less educated,...sort of like the Taliban.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cushioncrawler
11-15-2009, 02:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Muslim extremist??? an here I thought he was a conservative Republican. Was this one of them threads, where if I didn't read it here, as some poster wrote, I couldn't get educated? Sometimes when I see a thread like this, I'm reminded of the famous last words of Gen. George Custer.."don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes"...no that wasn't it....now i remember: "Look at all them f*****g Indians"
You might not see the connection at first to Hasan, but then neither do I.</div></div>Woofly -- Custer woz a terrist. On the other hand, can a majority terrize a minority ??????
madMac.

wolfdancer
11-15-2009, 04:08 PM
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pooltchr
11-15-2009, 04:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">President Obama does not oversee keeping tabs on every potential nut case in America,
</div></div>

No, but Commander-in-Chief Obama has the ultimate responsibility for what happens in the military. As Truman so eloquently put it, "The buck stops here".
While he may not have personally known about the warnings and red flags with this particular incident, he is the leader of those who did. That would mean there was either a breakdown in the chain of command, or someone was just following the guidelines passed down the chain regarding treatment of muslims in the military.

Either way, it's Obama's responsibility. That's how the military functions. If a petty officer is at the helm of a ship that runs aground, it's the captain that takes the heat.
Command comes with responsibility. The commander-in-chief has the ultimate responsibility.

Steve

wolfdancer
11-15-2009, 08:28 PM
it's semantics:
Adjective

1. Characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity".
Noun

1. A radical who employs terror as a political weapon.

Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist,and he also had to be deranged.
I believe Gayle thinks as I do, that Hasan acted alone,and was not part of some major plot, that President Obama should have been aware of. 'course we don't have the Red Team's insider info, coming direct from HQ in Dayton.
But if it makes your day to believe that Gayle does not have your understanding of terrorism....then I'm happy for you. At least you don't feel the need to scamper back to that other site, to run up a victory flag.

Qtec
11-15-2009, 10:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree. The guy was a terrorist, pure and simple. </div></div>

So he joined the Army ..........and then like 6 years later he carries out his Al Q inspired terrorist plot!!!!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Q

pooltchr
11-15-2009, 11:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. At least you don't feel the need to scamper back to that other site, to run up a victory flag. </div></div>

It doesn't take a whole lot since more often than not, she and others tend to dig their own graves. I just point out the hypocracy and mis-information when I see it. I can't help it if you guys are the greatest source of it on here.
Nothing to gloat over, since y'all make it so easy!

Steve

pooltchr
11-15-2009, 11:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So he joined the Army ..........and then like 6 years later he carries out his Al Q inspired terrorist plot!!!!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Q </div></div>

It's certainly within the realm of possibilities. Some of us have learned that these terrorists have a lot of patience when it comes to attacking the US.

Steve

wolfdancer
11-16-2009, 12:18 AM
I don't see this as a right/left issue...also can't believe the commentary that is trying so hard to blame Obama for this, and to compare it to 9/11....and then the claim that you are ignoring the facts...say, what?
Well, you have already been blamed for the murders of thousands of unborn babies....you must be the Queen of Mean....
As an intelligent reply on their parts...it ain't necessarily so.
seems that the only way they can pump up the volume on their posts and try to validate their "facts"....is to insult you. Pretty sad

LWW
11-16-2009, 05:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[ This cannot be a failure on Obama's part, since not one red flag was sent up the poll,
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

</div></div>

Keep telling yourself that. I just love to watch you ignore facts so you can maintain your own twisted view of things!

Steve </div></div>
Steve ... the Nadil Malik Hasan was merely a participant on Obama's transition task force handing out business cards labeling him as a soldier of Allah.

How could anyone have possibly known?

LWW

Gayle in MD
11-16-2009, 07:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see this as a right/left issue...also can't believe the commentary that is trying so hard to blame Obama for this, and to compare it to 9/11....and then the claim that you are ignoring the facts...say, what?
Well, you have already been blamed for the murders of thousands of unborn babies....you must be the Queen of Mean....
As an intelligent reply on their parts...it ain't necessarily so.
seems that the only way they can pump up the volume on their posts and try to validate their "facts"....is to insult you. Pretty sad </div></div>

No memo about this man was ever sent to the president. The FBI, and the Military did not see him as a threat, obviously, yet they try to convolute this horrendous tragedy into an attack on Obama. There is really no limit to their disgraceful, unamerican ideologies and hypocracy.

After eight years of their refusals to hand George Bush any single "Buck" on his desk for any of the many FUBAR (s) he committed and created, this overreach is one of their most ridiculous, hypocritical, illogical attempts of them all, and there have been many others.

Our military assures our soldiers the right to worship as they please. These A.H's on here are so uneducated, they think that any reference at all to Allah, should be proof of terrorism. Hence, they highlight the references made by this man, to his God, as proof that he was admitting that he was a dangerous terrorist. Do they think that a sticker on a soldiers car, about God, would prove the same?

They have the same mentality as the radical Muslims, exactly!


This position of hatred, paranoia, demonizing the entire Muslim community, to fit their twisted political interest in demonizing the President, smacks of the very same radical RW rhetoric that helped push this country into eight years of the worst foreign policy decisionsm and disasters, in our history.

They obviously paint all Muslims as terrorists. This is exactly the BUSH, twisted mentality that our country is trying to overturn in the interst of going back to American Principles of religious freedom, and equality in the eyes of our leaders. While they want to blame profiling, and present it as a liberal policy, they simply overlook the fact that our consituttion assures that our citizens from all over the world, will be free of profiling, and equal in the eyes of the law.

We already know, the right has no respect for our laws! Bush, surely proved that, with their approval!

They prove our point of RW hypocracy, every time they call the tenents of our Constitution, liberal ideology.

We can always count on the right to help bin Laden spread his lies about our country and use them as a recruiting tool. Bush did that for eight damn years! We saw the results!

G.

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 08:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
No memo about this man was ever sent to the president.
G.
</div></div>

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>The man was a member of Obama's transition team!!!</span>

Who did they have doing background checks on the team? Bill Ayers?????????

Steve

Qtec
11-16-2009, 09:41 AM
Even if he was a Muslim extremist, it doesn't make him a terrorist.

Q

Qtec
11-16-2009, 09:48 AM
The guy flipped. He went 'Postal'. It happens.

if you ask me, the fault lies with his superiors and Bush. These days, the Armed Forces are so over stretched they will accept anyone and are very reluctant to let anyone go, even psycho Muslim psychiatrists posted to Iraq against their will!

Q

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 09:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if he was a Muslim extremist, it doesn't make him a terrorist.

Q </div></div>

It does when he starts killing innocent Americans!!!

Steve

LWW
11-16-2009, 10:09 AM
That was just precious.

LWW

Gayle in MD
11-16-2009, 10:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy flipped. He went 'Postal'. It happens.

if you ask me, the fault lies with his superiors and Bush. These days, the Armed Forces are so over stretched they will accept anyone and are very reluctant to let anyone go, even psycho Muslim psychiatrists posted to Iraq against their will!

Q
</div></div>

Oh my, Q., rational thought is against RW rules on here! How dare you!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Qtec
11-16-2009, 10:17 AM
Thanks G. That's the best post you have made in a while. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Short, accurate and straight to the point.

Q /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

wolfdancer
11-16-2009, 11:20 AM
Dealing with individual nut cases within the military is not kicked upstairs to the CinC level despite the claims by the USCMJ "e-xperts" here, whose only real knowledge of military legal proceedings is watching "A Few Good Men", and "The Caine Mutiny"

Gayle in MD
11-16-2009, 12:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dealing with individual nut cases within the military is not kicked upstairs to the CinC level despite the claims by the USCMJ "e-xperts" here, whose only real knowledge of military legal proceedings is watching "A Few Good Men", and "The Caine Mutiny" </div></div>

Unable to admit when they are proven wrong, they then go back and prove it further, with questions, and statements already proven false?

These guys are a total waste of time....

The event they reference happened in April 08! Nobody even knew who the presidential candidate would be in April 08!

Hassan did not serve on the Transition Team.

There was absolutely NO contact between Obama's White House, and Hassan.


Just more rightwing lies...and more refusal by the two most uninformed people on this site to admit they have been PROVEN wrong, by the facts...and that as usual, they jumped on a RW lie, spread it around on here, and were then shot down by Granny... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Send them some Depends for me, will ya?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 12:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dealing with individual nut cases within the military is not kicked upstairs to the CinC level despite the claims by the USCMJ "e-xperts" here, whose only real knowledge of military legal proceedings is watching "A Few Good Men", and "The Caine Mutiny" </div></div>

How many years did you serve?

Steve

wolfdancer
11-16-2009, 12:39 PM
I see Steve has replied...I'm flattered of course, that someone who claims to be so smart, while also claiming that you and I are so dumb....would bother to take the time to instruct me.
Since his post would be way over my level of comprehension, I ain't going to even try to make sense of it.
I've mentioned the "Games People Play" bit before....but there is no sense trying to have any dialogue with people who try to "speak down" to you. All they are doing is feeding their own ego...lww being the classic example of that, with Steve now running a close second....imo.
I didn't sign up for his class, so I don't want to be "educated" as he claims he is doing, sheesh, by him.

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 01:50 PM
By the way, there is no such thing as a USCMJ.
You are probably thinking of the UCMJ...Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Steve

Gayle in MD
11-16-2009, 06:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see Steve has replied...I'm flattered of course, that someone who claims to be so smart, while also claiming that you and I are so dumb....would bother to take the time to instruct me.
Since his post would be way over my level of comprehension, I ain't going to even try to make sense of it.
I've mentioned the "Games People Play" bit before....but there is no sense trying to have any dialogue with people who try to "speak down" to you. All they are doing is feeding their own ego...lww being the classic example of that, with Steve now running a close second....imo.
I didn't sign up for his class, so I don't want to be "educated" as he claims he is doing, sheesh, by him. </div></div>

Good. There is absolutely nothing worth reading in any of his posts....



G.

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 06:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Good. There is absolutely nothing worth reading in any of his posts....



G. </div></div>

Unlike yours, which brings to mind the phrase "theater of the absured"!

Steve

Chopstick
11-17-2009, 08:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims.
Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society.
madMac. </div></div>

I think you may have a point. His parents were Palestinian. I imagine that he grew up hearing that killing Jews and Americans is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. This means that he would not have had to be mentally ill in any aspect to do what he did and it also answers another important question.

Doesn't anyone think that it is odd that he could have worked side by side with an entire staff of experienced psychiatrists in the one of the best medical facilities in the world for years and no one picked any symptoms of a problem? He certainly wasn't hiding anything. He expressed his ideas openly to the entire hospital staff and his patients. Does anyone think it is possible for him to slip by undiagnosed?

I don't think so. It was already in his nature to do what he did. He had no mental conflicts, quirks, or qualms about it.

Chopstick
11-17-2009, 08:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy flipped. He went 'Postal'. It happens.

if you ask me, the fault lies with his superiors and Bush. These days, the Armed Forces are so over stretched they will accept anyone and are very reluctant to let anyone go, even psycho Muslim psychiatrists posted to Iraq against their will!

Q
</div></div>

Against their will? What do you think military life is? You do not have will. You have orders. You swear an oath to obey them when you join.

pooltchr
11-17-2009, 09:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Against their will? What do you think military life is? You do not have will. You have orders. You swear an oath to obey them when you join. </div></div>

And these days, you do it volunterily. Nobody is forced to join the military, and you are told right up front before you sign up exactly what you can expect.
There are no excuses in the military. Even family issues are no excuse for disobeying orders. Like they used to say when I was in, "If the military wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one when you enlisted"

Steve

Gayle in MD
11-17-2009, 10:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims.
Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society.
madMac. </div></div>

I think you may have a point. His parents were Palestinian. I imagine that he grew up hearing that killing Jews and Americans is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. This means that he would not have had to be mentally ill in any aspect to do what he did and it also answers another important question.

Doesn't anyone think that it is odd that he could have worked side by side with an entire staff of experienced psychiatrists in the one of the best medical facilities in the world for years and no one picked any symptoms of a problem? He certainly wasn't hiding anything. He expressed his ideas openly to the entire hospital staff and his patients. Does anyone think it is possible for him to slip by undiagnosed?

I don't think so. It was already in his nature to do what he did. He had no mental conflicts, quirks, or qualms about it. </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> His parents were Palestinian. I imagine that he grew up hearing that killing Jews and Americans is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.</div></div>

<span style="color: #000066"> Quite an imagination you've got going there. </span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">one of the best medical facilities in the world for years and no one picked any symptoms of a problem? </div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">Oh, how I wish you had a clue about what you are saying. How I wish you could have stood in the stairways, watching our veterans with PTSD, livng with rats, among those with brain injuries, hardly knowing where they were, slipping all over ice and snow, fighting to just get to their therapy.

If America could have seen what you are calling "one of the best medical facilities" ...if they only had a clue, about how Bush's administration treated ous soldiers, you'd all be screaming to have him lynched, that is, if you actually did have any patriotism, or really did care at all about our soldiers!

If you had any clue about how overstretched we are in trying to fight two wars, care for our many ill and stressed, with as few as we have to do so, and the conditions our vets face, becausse of the shortage of mental health professionals, you'd understand how absurd your statements really are.


There should never be any kind of military invasion, without a draft. There is a whole range of reasons, why we should refuse to go along with our country ever going into any kind of war, without reinstituting the draft. The care of our veterans, is among the most important reasons why a volunteer set up is more costly, less efficient, and grossly inhumane!




G.

</span>

pooltchr
11-17-2009, 11:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[There should never be any kind of military invasion, without a draft. There is a whole range of reasons, why we should refuse to go along with our country ever going into any kind of war, without reinstituting the draft. </div></div>

Absolutely! Let's make sure we get all the muslim terrorists living in the country into uniform! That should make a very effective fighting force!


Steve

Gayle in MD
11-17-2009, 12:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims.
Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society.
madMac. </div></div>

I think you may have a point. His parents were Palestinian. I imagine that he grew up hearing that killing Jews and Americans is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. This means that he would not have had to be mentally ill in any aspect to do what he did and it also answers another important question.

Doesn't anyone think that it is odd that he could have worked side by side with an entire staff of experienced psychiatrists in the one of the best medical facilities in the world for years and no one picked any symptoms of a problem? He certainly wasn't hiding anything. He expressed his ideas openly to the entire hospital staff and his patients. Does anyone think it is possible for him to slip by undiagnosed?

I don't think so. It was already in his nature to do what he did. He had no mental conflicts, quirks, or qualms about it. </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Getty Images There are many unknowns about Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the man authorities say is responsible for the worst mass killing on a U.S. military base.

The family of the suspected Fort Hood shooter calls Hasan's actions "despicable and deplorable."

But some North Texans are jumping on his Muslim faith, carelessly casting all Muslims in a negative light.

In an email sent to NBCDFW: "We apparently don't have too many smart people in the pentagon if they would send a muslim to fight muslims."

Dramatic Photos: The Fort Hood Tragedy
LOOK Dramatic Photos: The Fort Hood Tragedy
To paint all Muslims with the same brush and not allow American citizens who want to fight for this country to serve in the military would go against everything that is American.

Take a look at the picture above. It is the grave of a soldier at Arlington National Cemetery in Section 60, the newest portion of the vast national cemetery in Washington, D.C., that contains hundreds of graves of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Capt. Humayun Saqid Muazzam Khan, 27, a Pakistani-American, of Bristow, Va., died June 8, 2004, after a vehicle packed with an improvised explosive device (IED) drove into the gate of a compound in Baquabah, Iraq. Khan's unit was charged with the day-to-day security and maintenance of the camp.

Khan was laid to rest with full military honors.

According to the Arlington National Cemetery Web site, "His colleagues and superiors remembered him for his courage, honesty, sense of humor and grace while in the field, even under pressure. Khan's colleagues eulogized his exemplary services and praised him for the leadership he provided to his troops."

Khan was posthumously awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. The last time he spoke to his mother in Virginia was on Mother's Day.

Another grave at Arlington honors U.S. Army Special Forces Staff Sgt. Ayman Abdelrahman Taha, who died on Dec. 30, 2005. Taha earned the Bronze Star and Purple Heart fighting in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

These slain soldiers were buried, with military honors, in coffins that were draped with the flag of the United States of America. Their ultimate sacrafices are no less great because they were Muslim.

Those soldiers no doubt lost their lives protecting our country after taking the Oath of Enlistment:

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

That's right, sometimes our enemies are domestic.

Speculation will happen in the hours and days after a mass shooting such as this, it's expected. But before spewing hate speech against all Muslims, consider this, there are extremists in all religions, and hundreds of soldiers of Muslim faith go to battle with fellow soldiers of other faiths because they believe in this country.

MUSLIM REACTION

The Association of Patriotic Arab Americans in the Military, estimates there are about 3,500 Arab Americans serving in the military.

The group, which was set up after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, issued a statement after the Fort Hood shootings:



"At a time of deep sorrow in the midst of this horrific tragedy, our thoughts are first and foremost with the Fort Hood shooting victims and their families. One can only imagine the unspeakable pain and loss they are and will be dealing with in the weeks, months and years to come.

"It is unfortunate that whatever demons possessed Nidal Hasan, that he chose to deal with his problems in this way.

"In the aftermath of this terrible tragedy, it is more important than ever that we not make the same scapegoating and broad stroke mistakes that were evident in the aftermath of previous tragedies. The Association of Patriotic Arab Americans in Military urges the media, government officials and all of our fellow Americans to recognize that the actions of Hasan are those of a deranged gunman, and are in no way representative of the wider Arab American or American Muslim community.

"In fact, thousands of Arab Americans and American Muslims serve honorably everyday in all four branches of the U.S. military and in the National Guard. Additionally, many of us have willingly stepped forward to fulfill our duty with our fellow soldiers in both Afghanistan, Iraq and other locations around the globe, including most of the member of APAAM. Indeed, many of us are today currently deployed in both countries, honorably serving each and every day."



A prominent national Muslim civil rights and advocacy group condemned the attack. In a statement, the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said:



"We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law. No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured."


</div></div>

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/Muslims-in-the-Military-69378682.html


<span style="color: #000066">Ethnic discrimination is a terible thing. It is definitely a reasult of hate, self-hate, and ignorance.

There are thousand of Arabs and Muslims, who have fought, and are fighing alongside our soldiers in Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Spreading around hatred for any ethnic group, is the hallmark of someone who doesn't understand, or accept, what America is supposed to be about.

G. </span>

Gayle in MD
11-17-2009, 12:40 PM
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/hsmkhan.htm

Deeman3
11-17-2009, 02:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/color]</div></div>Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims.
Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society.
madMac. [/quote]

<span style="color: #FF0000">Then all true Muslims are trying to kill us all? Is that the picture of Islam that we are to have? So, where is all the 99% majority of Muslims that are supposed ot be fun loving, non-violent folks? </span>

cushioncrawler
11-17-2009, 02:48 PM
D -- Non-violent muslims aint muslims -- they are something else.
Aktually, that aint quite korrekt.
Muslims that are non-violent will be true muslims on any day when the population of Non'Believers iz zero -- but they will havta be vigilant, there might be a Non'Believer to deal with on the next day.
madMac.

Deeman3
11-17-2009, 03:38 PM
Mac,

Makes pretty good sense to the Muslims, I recon. I wonder how that is going? I mean, we have had about 4,000 killed during 9/11 and the years following, not counting the American and Allied Soldiers which may add 6,000 to that cont. How many Muslims have died? Conservative estimates may be several hundred thousand so they, at this point, are certainly lagging behind in the count. Of course, they themsleves have probably killed more Muslims than we have as our present system of eliminating them is not as effective as it should be. So, it seems they have about a third of the earth to kill off before they really become that peaceful faith they are aiming for.

So, Hassan was just doing his job in Islamic terms?

wolfdancer
11-17-2009, 03:55 PM
Many Americans of Japanese and German heritage, served proudly, gallantly in WWII. I doubt if FDR had the time to keep personal tabs on them, as possible terrorists???
I'm wondering how "they" can keep trying to pin the blame on President Obama....after penning this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't anyone think that it is odd that he could have worked side by side with an entire staff of experienced psychiatrists in the one of the best medical facilities in the world for years and no one picked any symptoms of a problem? He certainly wasn't hiding anything. He expressed his ideas openly to the entire hospital staff and his patients. Does anyone think it is possible for him to slip by undiagnosed? </div></div>
In point of fact..given the time frame "years", I'd a thought GWB
would have "picked up" on him, as a future threat???
What a dumb insinuation trying to blame this POTUS for this lone terrorist actions...but then "all things considered"....SNAFU for them

cushioncrawler
11-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Yes -- muslims kill lots of muslims nowadays.
I think there are 2 major groups -- and i suppoze that each haz its moderates -- that makes at least 4 groups -- karnt all be true.
The truest group iz probly the group that kills more of the other.
madMac.

Deeman3
11-17-2009, 04:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes -- muslims kill lots of muslims nowadays.
I think there are 2 major groups -- and i suppoze that each haz its moderates -- that makes at least 4 groups -- karnt all be true.
The truest group iz probly the group that kills more of the other.
madMac. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Great concept. I can't wait to keep score as one group slowly gets rid of the other.... </span>

pooltchr
11-17-2009, 11:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What a dumb insinuation trying to blame this POTUS for this lone terrorist actions...but then "all things considered"....SNAFU for them </div></div>

Almost as dumb as blaming Bush for 9/11?????


Steve

wolfdancer
11-18-2009, 12:12 AM
seems that comparison "works for you", and since I'm not trying to educate you; you are welcome to that line of thought. Who knows, maybe you also see a comparison between 9/11 and the Hindenburg disaster?
XXX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F54rqDh2mWA)
'Course it doesn't do much to heal authenticate some of your other, er, beliefs.......
but then few here, I'm guessing?, will ever be writing anything like " And I'm not alone in that line of reasoning, Steve agrees with me 100% "

wolfdancer
11-18-2009, 02:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, how I wish you had a clue about what you are saying. How I wish you could have stood in the stairways, watching our veterans with PTSD, livng with rats, among those with brain injuries, hardly knowing where they were, slipping all over ice and snow, fighting to just get to their therapy.

If America could have seen what you are calling "one of the best medical facilities" ...if they only had a clue, about how Bush's administration treated ous soldiers, you'd all be screaming to have him lynched, that is, if you actually did have any patriotism, or really did care at all about our soldiers!
</div></div>
It'll be interesting to see how "they" will attack that statement. I'm sure that lww, Steve, LLotter will have some insider's info , to negate your post.....( they always do...in their own minds)

Gayle in MD
11-18-2009, 05:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">D -- Non-violent muslims aint muslims -- they are something else.
Aktually, that aint quite korrekt.
Muslims that are non-violent will be true muslims on any day when the population of Non'Believers iz zero -- but they will havta be vigilant, there might be a Non'Believer to deal with on the next day.
madMac. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims.
Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society.
madMac. </div></div>

Mac.
I'm disappointed in you. I hope you will read my posts on this thread, and realize that all Muslims are not out to kill.

To say that a group of people, have no place in western society, is really a horrible thing to say.

G.

Gayle in MD
11-18-2009, 05:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, how I wish you had a clue about what you are saying. How I wish you could have stood in the stairways, watching our veterans with PTSD, livng with rats, among those with brain injuries, hardly knowing where they were, slipping all over ice and snow, fighting to just get to their therapy.

If America could have seen what you are calling "one of the best medical facilities" ...if they only had a clue, about how Bush's administration treated ous soldiers, you'd all be screaming to have him lynched, that is, if you actually did have any patriotism, or really did care at all about our soldiers!
</div></div>
It'll be interesting to see how "they" will attack that statement. I'm sure that lww, Steve, LLotter will have some insider's info , to negate your post.....( they always do...in their own minds)

</div></div>

It's obvious they are wrong. Bad enough to be so uninformed on their own inaccuracies, par for the course, for one of them to put it in huge letters, and still FAIL to admit, that his 20 point statements are pure BS.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

G.

Chopstick
11-18-2009, 10:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #000066">Oh, how I wish you had a clue about what you are saying. How I wish you could have stood in the stairways, watching our veterans with PTSD, livng with rats, among those with brain injuries, hardly knowing where they were, slipping all over ice and snow, fighting to just get to their therapy.

If America could have seen what you are calling "one of the best medical facilities" ...if they only had a clue, about how Bush's administration treated ous soldiers, you'd all be screaming to have him lynched, that is, if you actually did have any patriotism, or really did care at all about our soldiers!

If you had any clue about how overstretched we are in trying to fight two wars, care for our many ill and stressed, with as few as we have to do so, and the conditions our vets face, becausse of the shortage of mental health professionals, you'd understand how absurd your statements really are.


There should never be any kind of military invasion, without a draft. There is a whole range of reasons, why we should refuse to go along with our country ever going into any kind of war, without reinstituting the draft. The care of our veterans, is among the most important reasons why a volunteer set up is more costly, less efficient, and grossly inhumane!


G.

</span> </div></div>

Sorry, but after the way you talked to Jose5 the above pattern rant has no credibility at all. I see no reason to read any further.

Gayle in MD
11-18-2009, 11:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #000066">Oh, how I wish you had a clue about what you are saying. How I wish you could have stood in the stairways, watching our veterans with PTSD, livng with rats, among those with brain injuries, hardly knowing where they were, slipping all over ice and snow, fighting to just get to their therapy.

If America could have seen what you are calling "one of the best medical facilities" ...if they only had a clue, about how Bush's administration treated ous soldiers, you'd all be screaming to have him lynched, that is, if you actually did have any patriotism, or really did care at all about our soldiers!

If you had any clue about how overstretched we are in trying to fight two wars, care for our many ill and stressed, with as few as we have to do so, and the conditions our vets face, becausse of the shortage of mental health professionals, you'd understand how absurd your statements really are.


There should never be any kind of military invasion, without a draft. There is a whole range of reasons, why we should refuse to go along with our country ever going into any kind of war, without reinstituting the draft. The care of our veterans, is among the most important reasons why a volunteer set up is more costly, less efficient, and grossly inhumane!


G.

</span> </div></div>

Sorry, but after the way you talked to Jose5 the above pattern rant has no credibility at all. I see no reason to read any further. </div></div>

I was never rude to Jose. Having a difference of opinion isn't the same thing as being rude.

OTOH, seeing no reason to read further, after some of your statements above have been proven totally wrong, makes perfect sense.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.
</div></div>

pooltchr
11-18-2009, 11:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.
</div></div> </div></div>

I think that would apply more to the left wing these days.
Remember "Never let a good crisis go to waste."?

Steve

cushioncrawler
11-18-2009, 02:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">D -- Non-violent muslims aint muslims -- they are something else. Aktually, that aint quite korrekt. Muslims that are non-violent will be true muslims on any day when the population of Non'Believers iz zero -- but they will havta be vigilant, there might be a Non'Believer to deal with on the next day. madMac.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims. Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society. madMac.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mac. I'm disappointed in you. I hope you will read my posts on this thread, and realize that all Muslims are not out to kill. To say that a group of people, have no place in western society, is really a horrible thing to say. G.</div></div>Gayle -- Islam must be the worst sort of cult around -- but no one haz pointed this out.
U do get some people pointing out how bad and stupid religions are -- ie religions that beleev in heaven and hell -- and here they lump together islam and the others -- but they are all cults in theory -- islam (and some others) in praktis.

But only one guy sayd it like it iz -- he woz a Dutchy, running for parliament, and he sayd it loud and often, on TV.
Unfortunately he woz killed, by a disgruntled former co'worker, nothing to do with islam -- and the islam debate haz now been swept under the carpet.
Islam haz no place in western style democracy -- they are like wasps in a bee hive.

Islam iz terryfying. A cult that aktually runs lots of countrys. Their constitution -- the quran iz terryfying.
We hav the fatwah on salmon rushdie -- still in place, forever -- mutterings to the contrary from some muslim quarters cant change the fakt that no'one can cancel the fatwah -- some muslim can still go to islam heaven for killing salmon.
madMac.

cushioncrawler
11-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Wilhelmus Simon Petrus "Pim" Fortuyn (Dutch pronunciation: [pɪm fɔʁtœʏn], (19 February 1948 – 6 May 2002) was a charismatic Dutch politician, author, columnist, public servant, sociologist and professor who formed his own party, Pim Fortuyn List (Lijst Pim Fortuyn or LPF).[1] He was assassinated during the 2002 Dutch national election campaign by militant animal rights activist Volkert van der Graaf, who claimed in court he had murdered Fortuyn to stop him from exploiting Muslims as "scapegoats" and targeting "the weak parts of society to score points" in seeking political power.[2][3][4]

The official spelling of his family name is "Fortuijn"; later in life he used the spelling "Fortuyn".

Fortuyn was the centre of several controversies for his views about immigrants and Islam. He called Islam "a backward culture" and said that if it were legally possible he would close the borders for Muslim immigrants.[5] He was labelled a far-right populist by his opponents and in the media, but he fiercely rejected this label[6] and explicitly distanced himself from far-right politicians such as the Belgian Filip Dewinter, the Austrian J๖rg Haider or Frenchman Jean-Marie Le Pen whenever compared to them.

In The Netherlands he is also mainly seen as a populist, more than a fascist [7]. While Fortuyn compared his own politics to centre-right politicians such as Silvio Berlusconi of Italy, he also admired former Dutch Prime Minister Joop den Uyl, a socialist. Fortuyn however repeatedly described himself and LPF's ideology as pragmatism and not populism.[8] Fortuyn was openly gay.

cushioncrawler
11-18-2009, 03:09 PM
Views on Islam and immigration
In August 2001, Fortuyn was quoted in the Rotterdams Dagblad newspaper, saying, among other things, "I am also in favour of a cold war with Islam. I see Islam as an extraordinary threat, as a hostile religion."[11] In the TV program Business class Fortuyn said that Muslims in Netherlands did not accept Dutch society. Fortuyn appeared several times in the TV program Business class, moderated by his friend Harry Mens. In this program it has been suggested that his words were interpreted rather harshly, if not wrongly. For instance, he said that Muslims in the Netherlands needed to accept living together with the Dutch, and that if this was unacceptable for them, then they were free to leave. His concluding words in the TV program were [...]I want to live together with the Muslim people, but it takes two to tango.[...]


After his death a statue was placed at his home in RotterdamOn 9 February 2002, he made further controversial statements in a Dutch newspaper, this time the Volkskrant.[5] He said that the Netherlands, with a population of 16 million, had enough inhabitants, and therefore, the practice of allowing as many as 40,000 asylum-seekers into the country each year had to be stopped (however, the actual number was not that high and already falling at that time[12]). He claimed that if he became part of the next government, he would pursue a restrictive immigration policy while also granting citizenship to a large group of illegal immigrants.

Remarkably, he said that he did not intend to "unload our Moroccan hooligans" onto the Moroccan King Hassan [13]. Hasan had died three years earlier[14]. Furthermore, he considered Article 7 of the constitution, which asserts freedom of speech, of more importance than Article 1, which forbids discrimination on the basis of religion, life principles, political inclination, race, or sexual preference. However, he distanced himself from Hans Janmaat of the Centrum Democraten, who in the 1980s wanted to remove all foreigners from the country and was repeatedly convicted for discrimination and hate speech.

Fortuyn proposed that all people who already resided in the Netherlands would be able to stay, but he emphasized the need of the immigrants to adopt the Dutch society's consensus on human rights as their own. He said "If it were legally possible, I'd say no more Muslims will get in here", claiming that the influx of Muslims would threaten freedoms in the liberal Dutch society. He thought Muslim culture had never undergone a process of modernisation and therefore still lacked acceptance of democracy and women's, gays', lesbians' and minorities' rights, and feared it would dismiss the Dutch legal system in favour of the shari'a law.

One of Fortuyn's fears was of pervasive intolerance in the Muslim community. In a televised debate in 2002, "Fortuyn baited the Muslim cleric by flaunting his homosexuality. Finally the imam exploded, denouncing Fortuyn in strongly anti-homosexual terms. Fortuyn calmly turned to the camera and, addressing viewers directly, told them that this is the kind of Trojan horse of intolerance the Dutch are inviting into their society in the name of multiculturalism[15]".

When asked by the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant whether he hated Islam, he replied:

“ I don't hate Islam. I consider it a backward culture. I have travelled much in the world. And wherever Islam rules, it's just terrible. All the hypocrisy. It's a bit like those old reformed protestants. The Reformed lie all the time. And why is that? Because they have standards and values that are so high that you can't humanly maintain them. You also see that in that Muslim culture. Then look at the Netherlands. In what country could an electoral leader of such a large movement as mine be openly homosexual? How wonderful that that's possible. That's something that one can be proud of. And I'd like to keep it that way, thank you very much.[16] ”

Fortuyn was author of the book Against the Islamization of Our Culture (in Dutch).[17]

Gayle in MD
11-18-2009, 03:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">D -- Non-violent muslims aint muslims -- they are something else. Aktually, that aint quite korrekt. Muslims that are non-violent will be true muslims on any day when the population of Non'Believers iz zero -- but they will havta be vigilant, there might be a Non'Believer to deal with on the next day. madMac.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops -- hassan iznt a terrist -- he iz a true muslim, thats all -- he did what a muslim iz supposed to do -- muslims that dont do what hassan did arent muslims at all, they are faux'muslims. Muslims belong in muslim society -- they hav no place in western society. madMac.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mac. I'm disappointed in you. I hope you will read my posts on this thread, and realize that all Muslims are not out to kill. To say that a group of people, have no place in western society, is really a horrible thing to say. G.</div></div>Gayle -- Islam must be the worst sort of cult around -- but no one haz pointed this out.
U do get some people pointing out how bad and stupid religions are -- ie religions that beleev in heaven and hell -- and here they lump together islam and the others -- but they are all cults in theory -- islam (and some others) in praktis.

But only one guy sayd it like it iz -- he woz a Dutchy, running for parliament, and he sayd it loud and often, on TV.
Unfortunately he woz killed, by a disgruntled former co'worker, nothing to do with islam -- and the islam debate haz now been swept under the carpet.
Islam haz no place in western style democracy -- they are like wasps in a bee hive.

Islam iz terryfying. A cult that aktually runs lots of countrys. Their constitution -- the quran iz terryfying.
We hav the fatwah on salmon rushdie -- still in place, forever -- mutterings to the contrary from some muslim quarters cant change the fakt that no'one can cancel the fatwah -- some muslim can still go to islam heaven for killing salmon.
madMac. </div></div>

My dear friend,
There are many peace loving Muslims in this world, IMO. Not all of them are religious fanatics, who subscribe to the radicalized ideas of the sickos.

I am against organized religion, and believe that it does a great deal of damage to humanity, but I know that my preferences are only my own, and I always believe, "to each his own."

G.

No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.

cushioncrawler
11-18-2009, 03:28 PM
From WikiIslam...........Islam and Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups......
The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments is from Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups by Janja Lalick, Ph.D. and Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪The group is preoccupied with making money.

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Conclusion............ Perhaps the only reason Islam is not labeled a "cult" by most authorities in the field of cult studies is because over a billion people are members of it.

cushioncrawler
11-18-2009, 03:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......My dear friend, There are many peace loving Muslims in this world, IMO. Not all of them are religious fanatics, who subscribe to the radicalized ideas of the sickos. I am against organized religion, and believe that it does a great deal of damage to humanity, but I know that my preferences are only my own, and I always believe, "to each his own." G. No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.</div></div>Gayle -- Yes, we must all feel sorry for most members of most cults -- inklooding muslims.
But its too late for the western world -- western style democracy iz doomed -- radical islam, ie true islam, iz kumming.
China might survive. madMac.

Gayle in MD
11-18-2009, 03:41 PM
LOL, yes, I can dig all of that, however, it describes all religions, not just Muslim, and all political radicals.

Group think, is a terrible thing, don't you think so?

But, regardless, it is wrong to judge ALL in any group, by a segment of any group. There are thousands of Muslim soldiers fighting for our cou8ntry right now.

I suppose my point is this, in the military, we are supposed to respect the religions of all who serve our country.

To single out Muslims, is not what our country was founded upon.

We were assured the right to our own choices and freedom from religious presecution, to worship, or NOT worship, as we please, and hence, no religion has a right to invade our personal, private decisions, in our lives.

Among those reasons, one's religion, is a personal private matter, just as is one's own body.

Just my 2C, friend...

G.

No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.

cushioncrawler
11-18-2009, 04:30 PM
Gayle -- Christianity in the oldendays would hav i think fullfilled all of the ticks in boxes needed to be called a cult (like islam duz nowadays).
But, modern Christianity duznt it seems get a tick in all of the cult boxes (except that some small seperatist cults do get all the ticks).
But, modern Christianity uzes the same Bible, word for word, az ever (az do the modern seperatist cults).
Hmmmmmmmmmmm -- so, iz the Bible stuff actually cult stuff or not ??????? -- i guess that it depends on the wording.
But the Quran wording duznt provide for any ambiguity -- its a cult. Kontradiktory in places, yes -- ambiguous, no.
madMac.

Gayle in MD
11-19-2009, 01:49 AM
They seem about equal to me, both advise violence...and discrimination, so I'd say half a dozen one way, six the other....etc.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Deeman3
11-19-2009, 08:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, yes, I can dig all of that, however, it describes all religions, not just Muslim, and all political radicals.



</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Some of us might agree if Christians were going around cutting people's heads off, bombing market places and shooting up military bases.

Mac has called out the Muslims for what they have become in their most zealot forms which unfortunately, is a pretty large part of their population. </span>

Gayle in MD
11-19-2009, 08:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, yes, I can dig all of that, however, it describes all religions, not just Muslim, and all political radicals.



</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Some of us might agree if Christians were going around cutting people's heads off, bombing market places and shooting up military bases.

Mac has called out the Muslims for what they have become in their most zealot forms which unfortunately, is a pretty large part of their population. </span> </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmmmmmmm -- so, iz the Bible stuff actually cult stuff or not ??????? -- i guess that it depends on the wording.
</div></div>

We were discussing the wording, Deeman. However, a short trip through history, will prove all the rest, also...

You write often as though you assign those atrocities to all Muslims. Others here, do the same. Is that your overall opinion?

If so, I will remind you, that is also the opinion of the RADICAL Muslims. The one's who do all those horrible things.

If you studied the Crusades, you'd see, as I am sure you must know, Christians were masters at torture.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Deeman3
11-19-2009, 08:41 AM
Gayle,

Respectfully, like with your Bush rantings, the Crusades who most of us have studies, is not current events that now threaten world peace. Do we fo all the way back to Salaman to seek out Muslim atrocities when they are now currently happening?

I think the radical Muslim population is pretty large now and in comparison to a few Christian nuts who may have done terroristic acts in recent years (Abortion Clinic Bombings, murder of a couple of doctors) is not a very valid comparison, even for you. If this was about 10 or even a few hundred radicals doing terror acts around the world, your argument would at least hold water.

I don't think many of us want retaliation against peaceful Muslims but when those who are radical and are dangerous act, we don't want everyone defending them as just poor mental cases or victims of our system.

Gayle in MD
11-19-2009, 09:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle,

Respectfully, like with your Bush rantings, the Crusades who most of us have studies, is not current events that now threaten world peace. Do we fo all the way back to Salaman to seek out Muslim atrocities when they are now currently happening?


<span style="color: #000066">I believe that in this thread, someone else was discussing historical events of Muslims, hence, the discussion we were having, fit my answer.... </span>

I think the radical Muslim population is pretty large now and in comparison to a few Christian nuts who may have done terroristic acts in recent years (Abortion Clinic Bombings, murder of a couple of doctors) is not a very valid comparison, even for you.


<span style="color: #000066">Oh really? And to that I would say that to suggest that abortion bombings are the only atrocities committed by Christians in recent years in this country, and around the world, are all that we have seen in recent years, is most assuredly, not valid, even for you. </span>
If this was about 10 or even a few hundred radicals doing terror acts around the world, your argument would at least hold water.


<span style="color: #000066">I would venture to say that Catholic Priests have molested more children consistantly, over centuries, than Muslims have beheaded people. Mormons, also, have raped and molested, committed incest, and imprisoned children, for centuries. Religious serial killers, who think they are doing God's work, when they murder prostitutes, are far from few, And since you brought up Bush, I'd say he took quite a few lives over the course of his so called WOT, FOR OIL, which he stated he was sent to fight, because GOD told him to do so.

So, don't give me that BS, Deeman...you just like to pick and choose what is comfortable for you to believe, and what justifies your ideology, and that of the RW of your party, and of the wealthy, who are too damn greedy to be willing to pay their share of the pie in the form of taxes, and vote according to that one promise, alone. </span>

I don't think many of us want retaliation against peaceful Muslims but when those who are radical and are dangerous act, we don't want everyone defending them as just poor mental cases or victims of our system. </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066"> We were discussing words in two books of different organized religions. Comparing the two books which Mac and I were discussing, fits very well with our discussion of ancient times, which Mac brought up, BTW.



When have I ever defended the radical Muslims who committed violent acts? What Liberal, or Demorcatic has EVER done so? Your mythology knows no bounds.


It's is part of the RW BS to accuse liberals of being soft on terrorists. They aren't. They just aren't stupid about realizing that honor counts in our own country. Freedom without discrimination, is important, just as honorable self defense, without sacrificing our values, as Americans.

More has surfaced, regarding the negligence of the Army in properly dealing with this individual. It is clear to most experts whom I have heard from, through their statements, that this horrible act did not fit with what we know as an orchestrated terrorist attack.

While the Republicans are keen to distort it in that way, for political purposes, this simply is not a result of political correctness, nor of an organized terrorist attack.

Obviously, the man was mentally off, and to state the reality of the situation, does not require any personal approval of radical muslims, terrorists, or terrorist attacks.


Just as to suggest that there are only a few radical Christian nuts in this country, is completely absurd.

G.
No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.</span>

Gayle in MD
11-19-2009, 10:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, yes, I can dig all of that, however, it describes all religions, not just Muslim, and all political radicals.



</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Some of us might agree if Christians were going around cutting people's heads off, bombing market places and shooting up military bases.

Mac has called out the Muslims for what they have become in their most zealot forms which unfortunately, is a pretty large part of their population. </span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">This also is BS. The radical Muslim element is a very small protion of the Muslim community.

Overall, I see this kind of RW rhetoric as the most dangerous cog in a large wheel, which rolls on and on, and contributes to more of the same, in the long run.

It is clear that the tragedy in Ft. Hood was a result to some degree of just that kind of thinking. It is that kind of thinking, which divides people, and inflames the mentally weak to go rogue.

</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Page Two:

Despite all this, American Muslims have generally resisted radicalization, and have almost universally rejected violent protest or reaction. Post-9/11 fears that a Muslim fifth column would coalesce in this country have not remotely been realized. But the Fort Hood massacre arguably showed that the continued civility of the Muslim population against undeniable pressures cannot be taken for granted. To preserve it, the American public will have to resist the paranoia to which last week's tragedy could potentially lead.

Instead, Barack Obama should use his bully pulpit to fight for the better treatment and monitoring of vulnerable Muslim service-members, to avoid another tragedy. Following his stern and eloquent eulogy, Obama should offer another speech emphasizing that Fort Hood was an anomaly and that the very rareness of such incidents illuminates the overall loyalty of American Muslims and the need to protect that population.

Then, he should follow up his words with policy changes. The fact that Hasan was psychologically disturbed does not negate the larger point that soldiers cannot be expected to function well in the service of their country for a cause that they oppose. Accordingly, with the United States in direct combat with Muslims on two fronts and engaged in a broader global counterterrorism campaign in which the antagonists are Muslims, the attitudes of Muslim service members need to be closely monitored. The sharp opposition to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and the belief that Muslims should not be sent to fight other Muslims voiced by Hasan at Walter Reed Hospital in mid-2007 should have raised a red flag even without evidence of mental imbalance or contact with radical clerics because the military imperatives of unit cohesion and strong morale would have counseled against his continued service. The White House should ensure that the services, the Pentagon, and the Joint Terrorism Task Force institutionalize better interagency early-warning mechanisms for detecting attitudes that render personnel unsuitable for service before they become alienated from their country.

Second, evidence has emerged that Hasan's turn toward radicalism and violence was partly driven by the taunts of fellow soldiers. The relative ease with which the Army was integrated after World War II demonstrates how effective military discipline can be in advancing individual rights when purposefully applied. Since military service is an extraordinarily sensitive issue for Muslims, Obama should immediately direct the chiefs of staff of all of the military services to redouble efforts to enforce antidiscrimination standards. Then a broader antidiscrimination effort, perhaps informed by a General Accountability Office study on anti-Muslim bias, should be extended to other agencies.

Increased vigilance for the few Muslims who may stray from the nonviolent norm is essential. But Fort Hood's principal legacy should be a greater commitment to ensuring, through accommodation of political and religious sensitivity and equality of treatment, that American Muslims don't suffer for their loyalty to their country.

page one:</div></div>
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/11/18/the_real_shock_of_fort_hood

G.

No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.

Deeman3
11-19-2009, 11:08 AM
"No one is better at creating outrage over injustices or threats than the modern-day right wing."


If the killing of innocent soldiers coming home and going to fight in these wars does not cause outrage in any sane person, I guess we have little to discuss. If you beleive they are imagined, please talk to the families of the victims of this most recent "imagined" attack.

pooltchr
11-19-2009, 11:10 AM
It is impossible to make a rational point with an irrational person.

Steve

wolfdancer
11-19-2009, 02:29 PM
I blame Jimmy Carter,the new deal, and the trickle down effect

cushioncrawler
11-19-2009, 03:39 PM
[quote=Gayle in MD][/color]<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Page Two: Despite all this, American Muslims have generally resisted radicalization, and have almost universally rejected violent protest or reaction. Post-9/11 fears that a Muslim fifth column would coalesce in this country have not remotely been realized. But the Fort Hood massacre arguably showed that the continued civility of the Muslim population against undeniable pressures cannot be taken for granted. To preserve it, the American public will have to resist the paranoia to which last week's tragedy could potentially lead..........</div></div>Gayle -- Unfortunately home'grown muslim terrorists hav i think been found and arrested in i think britain and ozz and usofa -- not important.

Important -- Like i allways say -- the real problem with any religions iz priests.
It iz priests that stir up people, and tell people what to think and do.
Koz, priests dont really care about people.
Religion iz of priests by priests for priests.
Islam iznt the problem -- the problem iz ayatollahs and mullahs and imams etc.
madMac.

Gayle in MD
11-19-2009, 04:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"No one is better at creating outrage over injustices or threats than the modern-day right wing."


If the killing of innocent soldiers coming home and going to fight in these wars does not cause outrage in any sane person, I guess we have little to discuss. If you beleive they are imagined, please talk to the families of the victims of this most recent "imagined" attack. </div></div>

Nice try, Deeman, but that is my new standard by-line about REPUBLICANS, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS, AND you rewrote that the same way you rewrite everything else to suit your twisted views..

Where was YOUR outrage when I was on here writing about the way our troops were being treated under the Bush Administration at Walter Reed, for YEARS!

Where was YOUR outrage when they didn't have decent equipment, helmets, socks, beds, because the Bush Administration wanted to run the war in Iraq on a shoestring!

Where was YOUR outrage when our troops were digging around in the trash, trying to weld together armour for their trucks!

Dont give me that BULL****, Deeman. Where was YOUR outrage when it became clear that Bush invaded Iraq on LIES, after which al Qaeda expanded, the Taliban regrouped, and four thousand dead Americans were being laid to rest, flown in in the dark of night, without so much as a horn blowing, hidden like so much refuse from the public eye.

Don't give me your ****!

Hateful rhetoric against all Muslims had more to do with this than anything else, and your hateful message is the worst way for any American to talk.

We have thousands of decent, dedicated MUSLIM soldiers, fighting right alongside of many others, from Mexico, from all those foreclosed homes where you righties think people were so stupid they deserved what they got, thousands, who the Republicans YOU voted for, then voted against helping our soldiers and their families get through Bush's FUBAR in the M.E. Those same soldiers, many of whom were, according to you righties, too stupid to get out of town and away from katrina. many of them have nothing to come home to, and we've been low on mental health doctors for over eight years, while our mentally ill have been housed with rats and roaches.

Where war YOUR outrage every time I got on here and wrote about that?

And what do YOU want from this horrible disaster, just more rhetoric, to spread more hatred, and aim more ridiculous conslusions, (when Gates himself, doesn't yet know enough about this disaster) while YOU are on here writing more of the same kind of hate that your party is famous form just so you can get those Republicans back in there to cut your damn taxes, and dole out more no bid contracts.


Don't you dare ever accuse me of no outrage. I have been outraged ever since YOUR PRESIDENT LIED OUR COUNTRY INTO FIGHTING AN UNNECESSARY WAR, FOR HIS RICH OIL CRONIES, AND HIS WEALTHY ARABIC BILLIONAIRES&lt; AND HIS DA DA'S AND CHENEY's BUSINESS PARTNERS....AND THEN HE TURNED RIGHT AROUND AND F-ED UP THE WHOLE THING....AND DUMPED IT ALL IN OBAMA"S LAP!

"It appears to me, the war in Iraq, was about oil"
Alan Greenspan


Where is YOUR outrage!

G.

No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.

pooltchr
11-19-2009, 06:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[...AND DUMPED IT ALL IN OBAMA"S LAP!


</div></div>

As I recall, Obama WANTED the job and told everyone he could turn things around. So far, all he has done is spend money, take over a major automobile manufacturer, and a couple of banks, attempt a massive takeover of our healthcare, bought an insurance company, and done absolutely nothing about a war where his generals on the ground are begging for more troops to get the job done. (Every day he waits on that one, more of our troops are dying)

Steve

Sev
11-19-2009, 08:17 PM
Looks like he found out he had AIDS.

Sev
11-19-2009, 08:18 PM
Political correctness has a price.

Deeman3
11-20-2009, 10:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Deeman3]"No one is better at creating outrage over
Where is YOUR outrage!

G.

No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.


<span style="color: #FF0000">Don't give us that Gayle. Your outrage is reserved for Bush, any Republican or person who does not share your views. NOw that Bush is gone, everything is great to you and the only outrage you will ever show is in opposition to Bush who you imagine is still in control or those who might defeat Obama and therefore gain control again.

People are starting miss Bush. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>



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Gayle in MD
11-20-2009, 12:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Deeman3]"No one is better at creating outrage over
Where is YOUR outrage!

G.

No one is better at creating outrage over imaginary injustices or threats than the modern-day right-wing.


<span style="color: #FF0000">Don't give us that Gayle. Your outrage is reserved for Bush, any Republican or person who does not share your views. NOw that Bush is gone, everything is great to you and the only outrage you will ever show is in opposition to Bush who you imagine is still in control or those who might defeat Obama and therefore gain control again.

People are starting miss Bush. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>



</div></div> </div></div>


The rest of the country is not as crazy as you are, Deeman. WE know who put us int the mess we're in, on all fronts.

I, like many others, in fact, like the majority of people, like President Obama, and the majority said they never wanted to see Bush again...so hey, don't YOU give me your BS...you supported George Bush through every single careless, F. up he committed, and still you're not man enough to admit how stupidly you behaved on here, attacking others who saw right through Bush et al, while you bought into the fantasy of "Fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here" Yeah, right! Do you know how many more Americans died AFTER 9/11, because of Bush?

Two failed wars
A collapsed economy
Oil through the roof
Deficit doubled, trippled, actually if you count all the interest on his borrowing meltdown!
Tarp... with no oversight
and way behind in addressing our dependence on foreing oil, climate change, renewable energy, he ever raised the Cafe' standards, and ruined our educational system.

Oh, you good Ol' boys, you Southern Bubbas can sure pick em! You folks from Sara's America, are just incredible!

WHA WHA WAH....I don't want to pay taxes, wha wha wha...

what a crock!

Reagan, Bush Bush = Recession, Recession Recession! Bigger Government, Bigger Government, Bigger Government! Lies, Lies, Lies, Law breaking, and pardons, Law breaking and cover ups, Law breaking, and cronies getting richer on all the rest of us, including the bin Ladens, and the saudis, who attacked us on 9/11

Real smart, you righties, voting for people who pal around with terrorists!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Now, you righties have to work overtime, recreating every news story sto suit your own indignation over your own history of absurdity...

Too bad, and too late. I and a few others around here recall your ridiculous statements, and support for the Chimp. Now, you're the monkeys who sutpidly bought into the RW BS that brought the whole country down.

Now you can go back to trying to parlay a mentally ill soldier, who gave ample warning to his collegues and superiors, that he needed psychological help, and then went on a killing spree, into an al Qaeda attack on Obama's watch...

absurd!

G.

pooltchr
11-20-2009, 01:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now you can go back to trying to parlay a mentally ill soldier, who gave ample warning to his collegues and superiors, that he needed psychological help, and then went on a killing spree, into an al Qaeda attack on Obama's watch...

absurd!

G. </div></div>

No "trying" is necessary. Anyone with half a brain could see it for the terrorist attack by a muslim extremist that it was.



Steve

Deeman3
11-20-2009, 01:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now you can go back to trying to parlay a mentally ill soldier, who gave ample warning to his collegues and superiors, that he needed psychological help, and then went on a killing spree, into an al Qaeda attack on Obama's watch...

absurd!

G. </div></div>

No "trying" is necessary. Anyone with half a brain could see it for the terrorist attack by a muslim extremist that it was.


[color:#FF0000] What you wanna bet that if this had been a Christian or a Jew spouting hate speech, that she would be calling them terrorists?

I can't beleive we are even having this argument. It is clear it the origin of the terrorist, not the act that drives this type of thinking for her. /color]



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pooltchr
11-20-2009, 01:34 PM
Don't be too hard on her. She's just trying to keep up with her party's current stand on the issues. It's tough for a senior citizen to keep up with so many changes and lies.

Steve

Gayle in MD
11-22-2009, 06:45 AM
The tragedy is the fact that the right immediately jumped onto this tragedy to attempt to use it for political purposes.

But then, YOU are claiming to have already made your judgement, even though no other expert in the military, Homeland Security, CIA, FBI. or the Pentagon, has had the time to investigate.

Pretty shappy for an American to do so, IMO. Our thoughts should be on why, who is responsible, what can be done to prevent this in the future, not a chance to BASH the president, who obviously, knew nothing about this man, no specific, unprecedents warnings, months in advance...

Twist it around to suit yourself, as usual....

G.

pooltchr
11-22-2009, 08:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The tragedy is the fact that the right immediately jumped onto this tragedy to attempt to use it for political purposes.


G. </div></div>

Do you mean it't kinda like the way the left jumped all over the killing of the abortion doctor to make it a political issue about right wing extremists???????????


Steve

wolfdancer
11-22-2009, 04:26 PM
Oh, how you <s>dofus </s> do fuss, when her posts confuse you. She meant what she wrote, not what you read into her posts.
(She am what she say she am...)
I'll see if I can get her to, t-y-p-e.... m-o-r-e .... s-l-o-w-l-y..., for you next time.