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View Full Version : Who agrees with Bellicheck's call on 4th down?



eg8r
11-16-2009, 03:52 PM
I think he definitely gave a bad sign to his defense that he did not trust them to stop Peyton especially after Peyton stuffed two drives down pretty quick.

eg8r

wolfdancer
11-16-2009, 04:10 PM
It looks pretty bad now, but I guess he still had faith in his defensive unit. When Peyton's career is over,wonder where he will be rated amongst the greats?
I go all the way back to Otto Graham, watching QB's. Joe Montana is my favorite, Jim Plunkett a close second, and for excitement, Daryle Lamonica. Tom Brady is on my top 10 list, as well
If the NFL championship game was on the line, with time for one final drive....Joe or Peyton??? I'd have to consult their horoscope to decide.
Good game; really questionable decision

sack316
11-16-2009, 04:17 PM
I was gonna make a thread on this also. I just didn't get it. I mean, yeah IF you make it then you put the game on ice. But if you don't, odds are that Manning was gonna make him pay, just like they did.

IMHO, it should have been by the numbers. What were the percentages of making your 4th and 2 vs. the percentages that your opponent could drive 70+ yards in 2 minutes with (IIRC) only 1 timeout? Obviously statistically the latter is the way to go, even with Manning on the other side.

Decision itself put aside, what horrible time management at the end too. Wasting their timeouts cost them a key challenge on that 4th down play. They may not have gotten it anyway, but still woulda been nice to have been able to give it a look.

I'm happy with the end result... but for such a good coach and a traditional game management team, that Pats sure looked bad in last night's instance.

Sack

sack316
11-16-2009, 04:22 PM
Also wanna add, that I don't fault the IDEA of trying to let your offense ice it. Especially after the D just got torched the previous drive. But also, the offense had their shot as well, having the ball back and needing to burn some clock. Ten yards woulda put it away. They didn't get it done on the first three plays. IMO, their shot was over. Punt and let the D redeem themselves.

Sack

eg8r
11-16-2009, 04:23 PM
I bet Peyton will be rated pretty highly amongst the greats. If he could just run a little, I don't think he would ever lose. The only team he could never beat was the Gators. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
11-16-2009, 04:28 PM
I agree, they blew it on a few different ends. Burning all the timeouts was surprising.

Since I am a Dolphin fan I want everyone to lose one game and because I am a Gator fan it is in my blood to hate Peyton. Having said all of that I think Peyton is one awesome QB and consider it a pleasure to watch him play for all these years.

I still remember sitting in the stands at Ben Hill Griffith stadium and taunting Peyton relentlessly (with the rest of those in the section) until he actually walked all the way down to the 20 yard line for the rest of the game (about 3rd quarter). Fat Fulmer had to walk all the way down the field just to chat with Peyton because he was getting unnerved near our section. Ha ha, gotta love college football.

eg8r

eg8r
11-16-2009, 04:30 PM
Agreed. What a great game.

Is it me or is there an uncanny amount of games being won in the file minute of a game this season? I don't remember it happening so often in years past but maybe I am just paying more attention to it now.

eg8r

sack316
11-16-2009, 05:01 PM
lol, yeah about the only thing I don't like about Manning is that he is a Vol. Strange to me actually, but I think Tennessee is about the only SEC team that is hated everywhere else except home. I mean, Auburn and Bama have fans all over. Florida has fans all over. Even Vandy and Miss St get love for being perennial underdogs. But Tenn? Just universally hates it seems. I dunno, just my personal observation.

All that said, he is just a pleasure to watch operate. It's like having another head coach sitting in your backfield. He is just so aware of what's going on, and not sure I've ever seen anyone manage a 2 minute drill as effectively as he does. Seems like they always score at the end of the half, and/or game when needed. Definitely one of the greats. And by the end, may well be the greatest ever.

Brady, I give him his props. The guy just wins. But last season made me wonder if it's as much him or the system. When he went down, the Pats still went 11-5 I think (though that didn't get them in the playoffs amazingly) with Cassell at QB. But Cassell did great and was a winner. Now Cassell goes away, and what has he done elsewhere? Don't get me wrong, I think Brady is a good QB... but if I have Welker and Moss running patterns for me, I could probably do well myself /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

IMHO, Manning is the top dog of this generation of players. The only shadow that gets put over that are the rings Brady and Big Ben have compared to Manning's. If Peyton had the defense of a Pittsburgh or New England all these years, I'd bet he'd have 5 rings by now.

Sack

sack316
11-16-2009, 05:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it me or is there an uncanny amount of games being won in the file minute of a game this season? I don't remember it happening so often in years past but maybe I am just paying more attention to it now.

eg8r </div></div>

Oh, and yeah seems to be a lot of that. I've also noticed an amazing number of kickoffs being returned all the way too, both in Pro and College ball. May be just me, but I don't seem to recall ever seeing it happen as frequently as it has this year.

Sack

wolfdancer
11-16-2009, 05:26 PM
How could I forget Ken Stabler. "the Snake" could run in college, but a couple of injuries took that away from him.
That 1977 Superbowl team cost me a job. I did the maintenance work for the Marines Memorial Hotel...the head housekeeper, would give me a list of repairs to be done...and working on Sundays, I'd watch the game in the room I was working on. They finally caught on that it didn't take 45 min to change a light bulb, and....That ruined the Superbowl game for ma as I wanted to get paid to watch it.

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 06:50 PM
The NFL today has 2 outstanding quarterbacks and several good ones.
Back in the day we had the likes of Stabler, Unitas, Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Starr and my personal favorite, Tarkenton. Best QB to never win a Super Bowl!

Steve

pooltchr
11-16-2009, 07:14 PM
Oh yeah, and there was a guy named Joe up in New York that was pretty good too.

Steve

sack316
11-17-2009, 01:26 AM
yeah, but so hard to compare through the decades and changes of the game.

The classic guys you mentioned probably didn't have to face a series of linebackers blitzing at them with nearly world-class speed.

But also, today's guys have a lot more rules protecting them from getting beat up as bad as those guys did.

Saw the other day that Cheerleading is now the #2 most dangerous sport behind football. We're only about another rule change or two away from those switching places I fear.

Forget who it was, but yesterday a defensive player LEAPED over a lineman superman style to get the the QB. An outstanding athletic play, and beautiful to watch. And he got flagged for it because technically he led with his helmet (not sure what else he COULD lead with being airborne and all). Is it too late for the AFL to make a comeback? NFL lives up the the no fun league name more and more each season it seems.

Sack

wolfdancer
11-17-2009, 04:05 AM
I'm still waiting for the A.A.F. C. to stage a comeback. That was my first pro game ever...my Uncle Ed, back home about a year or so from WWII, took me there. Uncle Ed is still going strong at around 92 now, but does have failing eyesight.
George Ratterman was our QB back then.
" He played college football at the University of Notre Dame from 1944 through 1946, primarily as a backup to quarterbacks Frank Dancewicz and Johnny Lujack. He was the last of only four students in Notre Dame history to earn letters in four different sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis). Legendary football coach Frank Leahy called him "the greatest all-around athlete in the history of Notre Dame."

" After retiring from football, he ran for Sheriff in Ky.
"On May 9, 1961, while campaigning as a candidate for sheriff of Campbell County, Kentucky, he was drugged with chloral hydrate and put in bed with stripper April Flowers in an attempt to blackmail him and force him to drop from the race."
(though April Flowers may come your way...) , and I think George was a missionary position guy... (you'll need a shower after you play) ...(I should have been a lyricist)

"The plot was uncovered, and publicity from the botched frame-up attempt catapulted him and his party to victory in the election. While sheriff, with cooperation from federal agents and personal interest of then-U.S. Attorney General Robert Kennedy, he was able to rid the county, and particularly the city of Newport, of gambling, prostitution and vice businesses that had dominated the area since the Civil War." (typical democrat, interfering with free enterprise)

When the AAC folded they took Cleveland and the 49'rs into the NFL. ( The Browns beat the Rams that season in the title game)
We went without a team until the AFL came into existence, and what players we ended up with during that period.... some guy named O.J at running back, Cookie Gilchrist at FB, and the mad bomber, Daryl Lamonica at QB, we traded him away for Tom Flores and a Stripper to be named later... but Darryl wasn't our starting QB. He played behind a ...a...a Republican WT*, Jack Kemp. Jack was a great man, great player, great congressman, and might have made a great President.He passed away earlier this year, and
was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Barack Obama.
The AFL was really fun to watch in them days...more of a wide open game compared to the "3 yds and a cloud of dust" (almost) NFL
We also had Elbert Dubenion as wide receiver, great player, awesome stats:
"As a rookie for the American Football League's Buffalo Bills in 1960, DuBenion had seven touchdowns and 752 receiving yards on 42 catches, a 17.9 yd/catch average. He ran 16 times for 94 yards and a touchdown, a 5.6 yd/carry average. In 1961, facing tighter and deeper coverages, he upped his production as a runner, rushing for 173 yards and a touchdown on just 17 carries, a 10.3 yd/carry average. He had 31 catches for 461 yards and six touchdowns.

In 1964, Duby had one of the most sensational seasons of any receiver in pro football history, scoring 10 touchdowns among his 42 receptions for 1,139 yards, while collecting 27.1 yards per catch. In nine seasons, he totaled 296 receptions for 5,424 yards and 36 TDs for a career average of 18.3 yd/catch, and rushed for 360 yards and three touchdowns on 48 carries, a career average of seven yds/carry."

But never send the guy out for the coin flip....
In one Championship, as co captain, he won the flip for the O.t. period. He called out which goal they wanted to defend, thinking he would also get the chance to elect to receive....
worst coin flip call in the history of the game, maybe...but our team won....
I can remember a lot of this stuff( with some help from Google, ok, lots of help) from many years back,,,,but the other day I put something in the microwave, set the timer for 2 minutes, and forgot what I had put in it. Never did remember until I opened the door. It was my cat....nah, just some coffee I was reheating.
..Now thanks to Google...I just learned something that I never knew.....
I grew up listening to Frank Merriwell on radio every Sat morn( Frank=honest and direct...Merri= always in good humor, and well= He didn't drink, didn't smoke, didn't chew, and didn't go with girsl that do) Frank played QB for Yale. Frank would usually get kidnapped the morning before a big game,then free himself and rescue a damsel in distress, was was also being held for ransom, getting her back home, etc and getting to the game just in time to engineer a couple of come from behind 4th quarter TD's, winning the game in the last minute...he usually ran 73 yards for one, through both their team and their marching band (nah, even the writers then couldn't have made the band part believable)... and maybe flipped an 59 yd pass for the other while standing one one foot and singing:
Whiffenpoofs (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl26cvuuXC8)

AND...looking at this picture, Frank looked like he was being inducted into Yale's Skull and Bones Society...that might be GWB under one of them hoods
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/Merriwelly.jpg