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pooltchr
11-21-2009, 07:20 AM
Our government is telling us that Obamacare will cost the government around $180 billion per year starting in 2013.
Canada estimates the cost of their healthcare will be $186 billion this year converted to USD.
The population of the US is 300 million, 10 times the 33 million population of Canada.

Even being generous and saying that our government can be twice as efficient at Canada's, one might conclude that the total cost in the US would be more like a trillion dollars.

Who is picking up the tab for the balance? Might it be the individual, who might expect to spend a full 20% of their income to pay for mandatory healthcare? (That, on top of the increase in taxes that the CBO suggests will be necessary for the government to pay their part)

Can we even begin to afford this massive project?

Oh yeah, the Senate vote is tonight on the 2000 page bill. I checked the White House web site so I could read the bill they are voting on as Obama promised I would be able to do. I couldn't find it. Does anyone have the link?

Steve

Qtec
11-21-2009, 09:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Health care reform (SEE: Popular Documents category for Senate Democrats' draft bill and other health care reform documents) </div></div>
link (http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm#hot_documents)

Good luck. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Q

Qtec
11-21-2009, 09:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our government is telling us that Obamacare will cost the government around $180 billion per year starting in 2013.
Canada estimates the cost of their healthcare will be $186 billion this year converted to USD.
The population of the US is 300 million, 10 times the 33 million population of Canada.

Even being generous and saying that our government can be twice as efficient at Canada's, <span style='font-size: 20pt'>one might conclude that the total cost in the US would be more like a trillion dollars.</span> </div></div>

LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>Health care costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in the United States on health care surpassed <u>$2.2 trillion in 2007, more than three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight times the $253 billion spent in 1980.</u> Stemming this growth has become a major policy priority, as the government, employers, and consumers increasingly struggle to keep up with health care costs </span></div></div>

So, according to your own calculations, in comparison, the US spends double what Canada does and Canada insures everyone!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most everyone would be required to purchase insurance under Reid's legislation, and billions in new taxes would be levied on insurers and high-income Americans to help extend coverage to 30 million uninsured. Insurance companies would no longer be allowed to deny coverage to people with medical conditions or drop coverage when someone gets sick. </div></div>

Get it now? It will cost 180 B to insure the 35 million who are not presently insured. Also, if your combined income is lower than $250,000, it won't cost you a cent.

Real costs of health care for the Govt?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Government Funds 60% of U.S. Healthcare Costs - Far Higher than Previously Believed

Harvard Study Shows Government Health Spending in U.S. Exceeds Costs in any Nation With National Health Insurance

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"We Pay for National Health Insurance but Don't Get It"</span>

Government expenditures accounted for 59.8% of total U.S. health care costs in 1999, according to a Harvard Medical School study published today in the journal Health Affairs. At $2,604 per capita, government spending was the highest of any nation - including those with national health insurance. Indeed, government health spending in the U.S. exceeded total health spending (government plus private) in every other country except Switzerland. (Estimated total U.S. health spending for 2002 is $5,427 per capita, with government's share being $3,245.)

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Taxes fund care for those most vulnerable to illness and expense - the elderly, the disabled, the poor, patients with end-stage kidney disease, severe mental illness, certain cancers and rare diseases, and now, Alzheimer’s (75.8% of tax-financed health expenditures). Taxes also fund coverage for all public employees, veterans, and the military (e.g. all members of Congress have publicly-funded insurance)(9.1%). And businesses get large tax-breaks for providing coverage to their employees (15.1%).
</span>
<span style='font-size: 20pt'>“We have a system in which we’ve “privatized the profits, and socialized the risks,”</span> said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, a co-author of the study and Associate Professor of Medicine at Harvard. “Insurance companies reap the profits and pay their executives millions while drowning our health system in paperwork at public expense. For their part, businesses complain bitterly of rising health care costs, yet they pay only 19% of total U.S. health costs, insure the mostly healthy and wealthy, and reap large tax-breaks (subtracting tax-breaks reduces employers share of health spending to just 11%).”

“It would be much better – for both business and the American public - to get employers out of the business of providing health insurance altogether,” continued Dr. Woolhandler. If we put everyone – young and old – healthy and ill – in the same risk pool, we could save enough on bureaucracy ($154 billion) to cover all the 40 million uninsured. We could also end “job-lock” for employees and effectively control rising health costs – something no individual business can do.”</div></div> link (http://www.pnhp.org/news/2002/july/government_funds_60.php)

All Americans are being ripped off by the HC industry. Something had to be done.

Q

http://www.kaiseredu.org/uploadedImages/Topics/Health_Systems/IssueModule/Health_Costs/National%20Health%20Expenditures%20distribution,%2 02007.jpg

pooltchr
11-21-2009, 10:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, according to your own calculations, in comparison, the US spends double what Canada does and Canada insures everyone!


</div></div>

Canada insures one tenth of the population of the US. Our costs are going to far exceed the numbers the government is talking about.

Steve

Gayle in MD
11-21-2009, 10:06 AM
Thanks Q,
I always get the best links from you!

I really enjoy your posts.

G.

pooltchr
11-21-2009, 06:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also, if your combined income is lower than $250,000, it won't cost you a cent.

</div></div>

Well, there you go. We will all get healthcare, and only the ultra rich will pay for it!

I'm so glad to learn that my family will qualify for healthcare that won't cost me a cent!!!!!

Thanks for straightening me out.

Steve

llotter
11-21-2009, 08:35 PM
It just doesn't seem right that some people are entitled to take the property of others....Life, Liberty and the property of others...sounds like a plan.