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cushioncrawler
11-22-2009, 04:05 PM
One of the oppozing team last week , Paul, apparantly had a bad case of "billiards yips".
I only saw Paul play one shot -- he tryd to pot a ball -- and i saw him line up the shot -- then hesitate -- then half stand up -- then hesitate -- then lurch foreward and up on the stroke (if u could call it that) -- and (naturally) missed.
My team'mates sayd that Paul played like that on allmost every shot -- and he lost the game by a mile.
I remember that only a few years ago Paul woz improoving heaps and woz very impressiv -- he iz about 50yrs old.
We sat next to each other at supper -- but i forgot to ask him about it.

I hav seen 2 other bad cases of "billiards yips" -- ie where the player had trouble starting the stroke, or similar -- and both were happy to discuss the problem, but were short on solutions.
In one case the player changed to playing right'handed for a year -- which seemed to help a bit when he returned to being left'handed.
In the other case the player tryd hitting without delay -- ie before even finishing getting down on the shot.

I guess that 100% of players suffer from a little yip of some sort.
Some karnt stop lifting their head.
Some karnt pause at the end of their backswing.
Some pull a funny face.
Etc etc etc etc etc.
One solution might be to wind some tape around the shaft of your cue.

What causes the yips ?????????
What iz the best medicine ?????????
What should i tell Paul when next we meet ?????????
madMac.

JoeW
11-22-2009, 07:05 PM
There are probably many reasons for the yips. One of the primary ones is the need to play our best in competition. Because of this strong desire we skip or forget to emphasize some part of our routine. Generally we want to see the result before the process has completed. The yips can be caused by anxiety --- or “stress” if you don’t like the psychological terms . The simple but powerful, desire to win is the primary cause for “normal” people.

When I get the yips it usually has to do with watching the object ball go where I intended. The hand follows the eye and I am looking at or toward the pocket just slightly before CB – OB contact is made. This tends to throw the aim off. I am so concerned with making the shot and getting position that I let slip a very important part of the shooting routine in the interest of seeing the result. In my style of play if I want to be consistent I must see the OB-CB contact to keep everything in line. While I “know” this to be true I sometimes get caught up in the competitive atmosphere and this destroys my game. It was a prophecy of doom for the match and I would just resign myself to beating myself.

The way I mostly (it still happens from time to time) resolved this problem was to take my game apart and find all of the things that are necessary for me to have a consistent run. Then I attempted to find out what happens when I abused some part of my game. In this way I could recognize what it was that I was doing wrong in competition after one or two shots. Recognition of the problem leads to a resolution. Note that a minor shift in eye placement is one source of the yips and this is difficult for team members to pick up. There are many other small problems that can destroy one’s stroke.

I doubt that I am unique, there are many causes of the yips in my own game, let alone anyone else’s game. Therefore I need multiple solutions.

The root problem is anxiety, that can come from many sources. If there were no anxiety or stress of some sort I probably would find playing pool boring so competitive anxiety is part of the game and my problem is finding the solutions.

I can see where this whole idea is far too much work for some people and so their game can’t get to the next level or their game might even deteriorate over time. Others like the fight with our limited abilities.

Give your buddy a hard copy of my Competitive Anxiety article. It is one place to begin.

Competitive Anxiety (http://www.sunburstselect.com/PBReview/Competitive_Anxiety.htm)

--
A lady told me the best definition I have ever heard of "normal." It is a setting on her washing machine.

JoeW
11-22-2009, 07:34 PM
BTW it is very common in western culture with regard to masculinity to say that “nothing bothers me.” Even Clint Eastwood is not the character he played in his man with no name movies as evidenced by his later movies. If playing pool did not affect us in any way and it really did not bother us to lose or to be recognized as a good player we would never compete with others. But then too even if one only plays at home the competition is with one’s self and “beating” our last best score. If you don’t keep score in some way the whole thing becomes boring and why do it.

I have little interest in many things in life because I have already mastered them and while others may find them fun I do not. Like everyone else I want to take on the next level of competition – that is where the real fun is. But it would not be competition if it did not involve some sort of risk.

When I was young (and stupid) it was cliff diving, now its pool -- Different but yet in some ways the same.

cushioncrawler
11-22-2009, 07:40 PM
Joe -- Thanx for that stuff.
I wonder if relaxation etc iz likely to help someone who haz allready managed to hard'wire some sort of bad action into their game.
I know that i had a hard time with golf -- especially with the take'away -- i had a sort of lurch, even in praktis.
The way i fixed it woz i totally change my style -- my grip, stance etc.

I read that one snooker pro (Patsy Fagan i think) gave it away koz he koodnt uze the rest -- koodnt do the foreward stroke. Years later when giving someone a lesson he found that he no longer had any trouble -- so then he wondered whether he had wasted years unnecessaryly.

And that snooker pro Rex Williams took one year off, koz he koodnt start the backswing. He saw a phsychologist (i think) -- anyhow whatever he did worked koz he went ok later.

In golf they say that once u've had'em u've gott'em.
I wonder whether any billiards player haz ever fixed hiz'her yips.
madMac.

Brian in VA
11-22-2009, 07:46 PM
While they do say that about golf, that once you've had, you've got 'em, I can tell you they are curable. I managed to get rid of mine by changing my pre-shot routine and focusing my mind on something unrelated to golf to short circuit the synapses that were involved. (I don't know if that's what it is but it did fix it, with a lot of work.)

As Joe said, it required breaking down the entire sequence to determine what was causing the yip and then retraining myself to break the habit.

I hope your friend is able to make changes. It's a maddening problem to have.

Brian in VA

JoeW
11-22-2009, 07:54 PM
I have "fixed" some of mine. But there is always another one around the next corner.

So long as you care about your game something will creep in. I suspect that what makes the pro -- the pro aside from talent, is his or her ability to have reduced the yips to a minimum. But even so, when you watch the pro matches you see the yips creep in from time to time. Seems they raise their ugly head when the stress is high enough and deep enough.

I agree that once you have had them, because you care enough about your game, they will show up again, especially when you care too much (?) about the outcome.

JoeW
11-22-2009, 08:01 PM
CushionCrawler said, "I wonder if relaxation etc iz likely to help someone who haz all ready managed to hard'wire some sort of bad action into their game."

The answer for me is definitely yes. I made part of my living doing just that for 25 years. Of course it all depends on which game we are talking about!

cushioncrawler
11-22-2009, 08:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have "fixed" some of mine. But there is always another one around the next corner. So long as you care about your game something will creep in.</div></div>Joe -- I agree, they allways come back, albeit in a different form.
madMac.

cushioncrawler
11-22-2009, 08:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brian in VA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While they do say that about golf, that once you've had, you've got 'em, I can tell you they are curable. I managed to get rid of mine by changing my pre-shot routine and focusing my mind on something unrelated to golf to short circuit the synapses that were involved. (I don't know if that's what it is but it did fix it, with a lot of work.) As Joe said, it required breaking down the entire sequence to determine what was causing the yip and then retraining myself to break the habit. I hope your friend is able to make changes. It's a maddening problem to have. Brian in VA</div></div>One guy i played golf with occasionally got the putting'yips worse and worse. It woz horrible to watch him in the end.
I say in the end but in fakt i dont know what aktually happened with him koz i gave golf up. He woz a recently retired CEO, in the pine-forestry bizness -- a smart guy, and rich -- and hiz retirement golf turned to shit -- hope he had some other sport -- can u get the yips when fishing.
madMac.

Scott Lee
11-23-2009, 03:31 AM
Like Brian said, the cure for the "yips" is to be able to trust your stroke. Without that deep-seated trust, you'll never get rid of them. Trust in your stroke builds confidence in pocketing, which brings more consistency...which builds more trust. It's a circle...

Scott Lee

Soflasnapper
11-23-2009, 12:41 PM
I think the yips are a specific kind of thing-- not just dogging a shot, or choking on game/set/match ball-- because I think you can do those things and not necessarily have the yips. It isn't a one-off kind of thing, but an enduring pattern that recurs when you're in yip mode.

Yips to me means a psychological reaction to a game situation that destroys playing accuracy once you get into that situation-- either particular parts of the game (say, the key ball before the winning ball, or the winning ball alone, or the dreaded break yips which are very bad!), particular kinds of shots (long straight in, or using the bridge, etc.) or all your play once you get into that mode.

I think it's almost the equivalent of getting very flustered, and then trying to play through that level of upset, plus the psychic pain of prior failures that color the expectations of further humiliation one has in that situation.

Pretty tricky since it is all about what goes on in the head.

Here's one thought, echoing what was said about confidence in the repeatable stroke: Don't make the kind of embarrassing miss that can trigger a yips session in the first place.

By which I mean situations such as when you have very easy shape, or perhaps ball in hand, and you take it so lightly that you short-circuit your full pre-stroke routine (it's so EASY, why would you have to aim, check your alignment, and do your SPF for THIS shot???) But experience shows ANY shot is missable if you do not give it full attention and use your entire pre-shot routine, and IF you miss such a shot, it can harm your confidence and result in an inability to pocket for a while or longer.

I had some trouble with making some relatively easy 9s in 9-ball because I wasn't putting in my full effort on such 'easy' shots, and began shooting earlier than usual to end the anxiety I was experiencing more quickly. Took too long to analyze it, but now with reminding myself to take a complete pre-shot routine, those yips are gone for me for the time being at least.

cushioncrawler
11-23-2009, 02:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott Lee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like Brian said, the cure for the "yips" is to be able to trust your stroke. Without that deep-seated trust, you'll never get rid of them. Trust in your stroke builds confidence in pocketing, which brings more consistency...which builds more trust. It's a circle...Scott Lee</div></div>Scott -- Exaktly, but i reckon that the yips are due to a bad'circle.
And the yips i am talking about iz really the kind where everyone in the room can see that u havem -- really ugly.

I suspekt that a person who suddenly (iz it sudden???) gets the yips might in fakt sometimes hav been improoving out of sight beforehand (not important). He'she might hav had lots of good'circles on the go -- but there woz one bad'circle in there all the time, and it won.

Perhaps the yips are like a bad stammer.
I remember stammering on at least one occassion -- ie just for a few brief seconds -- but it never ever developed into a permanent thing.
Do people with stammers hav more problems with other sorts of yips ?????? (not important).
madMac.

KellyStick
11-24-2009, 09:01 AM
This won't be very helpful. Maybe... But let me recite the wisdom found in the "Tao" of Hee Haw. You know that fabulous TV show from the 70's or so? I have modified this to match this situation.

Pool Shooter with the yips:
Doc, I karnt make a ball as I stand and squink my eyes and make all sorts of faces and body languages whilst I shoot?

Pool Dr:
Well, don't do that.

There is wisdom in those words.

bradb
11-24-2009, 02:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KellyStick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Pool Shooter with the yips:
Doc, I karnt make a ball as I stand and squink my eyes and make all sorts of faces and body languages whilst I shoot?

Pool Dr:
Well, don't do that.

There is wisdom in those words. </div></div>

Hi Kelly, some very good posts here especially from doc Joe, but you hit the nail on the head!

I'm the classic yips player... or I was! I was able to conquer it (not completely but close.)

We come to the table on a critical situation and we know that trouble is brewing the second we get down on the shot. We feel a tightness in our chest... its like an animal in fear when in danger. We know we have to execute but our body is saying "know way!" and the tendency is to quickly hit it and just get it over with.

What I finally figured out to do was "back away!".... get up from the shot and walk to another angle and study it. Then come back and try it again.... if its still there... get back up and Walk around again. Focus your mind on relaxing. What you are doing is giving your body time to drain off the adrenelin. (my amatuer term.) Also you are giving your mind a chance to ignore the suroundings and settle in.

Keep doing this until you can get down on the shot and your body finally feels comfortable.... then you sort of say to yourself... this is'nt so tough, I've made this shot a thousand times... I know what to do.

This routine has saved my bacon many times. I don't worry about what people watching will think, I saw Johnnie Archer do this for about 5 minutes, we are all human.

Brad

cushioncrawler
11-24-2009, 02:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bradb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......Keep doing this until you are down and the fear is leaving and your body finally is comfortable.... then you sort of say to yourself... this is'nt so tough, I've made this shot a thousand times... I know what to do.......</div></div>Me, myself, i sort of say to myself... this is so tough, I've missed this shot a thousand times... I dont know what to do.
madMac.

bradb
11-24-2009, 02:55 PM
Then get back up Mac. You know you can do it.

JoeW
11-24-2009, 03:03 PM
When I think about it some more, I agree with Brad. Slowing down is one of the primary ways I get out of the Yips. I think that I start trying to figure out what I am doing that is making me miss. This of course requires me to slow down and more closely observe what I am doing.

Yeah, that is one of the solutions

bradb
11-24-2009, 03:10 PM
Thats right Joe, I find once I have conquered the yips situation I then can get back into a comfortable routine at my regular pace... but getting past that first hurdle is the key. If you don't you are toast for the rest of the match. Brad

BCA Master Instr
11-26-2009, 10:13 AM
Mumble-Mumble-Mumble

wolfdancer
11-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Mac, I once knew a player in his 50's, that couldn't pull the trigger....his pre-stroke count was was up in the twenties, and the sweat would be pouring off of his forehead, and then he might lift up, and begin all over. I've mentioned it before, but he knew and worked with Dr.R. Oppenheimer,in the past, and he then worked at the Lawrence Livermore Lab as a scientist.
Charles Barkley has a hitch in his swing, that Hank Haney can't seem to fix, wonder if that could be a relative of the yips?....I've never seen anyone with either putting or stroking yips, although Tom Watson went from the best putter on tour, to the worst, and despite getting help from the best instructors, didn't solve the problem. He did almost win the Senior Open this year...but I seem to remember another key, makable putt that he missed that cost him. I read in the past that it is the "fine motor skills"....the small muscles, that are affected. Maybe it is a psychosomatic illness, or disorder, that there is no cure for except Dr. Jim Beam's magic Elixir.
This also won't cure the yips, but at least you can temporarily forget that you have them.

Cornerman
11-27-2009, 07:46 AM
I've discussed my problems with the yips over the years. It's bad. And it's a reason why I don't play as much anymore. No mantra chanting, no relaxation techniques, and no trust in my stroke will get rid of them. In my case, the yips are a carry over from my daily life of anxiety/panic attacks that have plagued me all of my life.

I feel your opponent's pain. Many of these helpful things people are saying on this thread, it might help many cases, but not the real yips. It's more than some "mental thing."

Fred

Qtec
11-27-2009, 08:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's more than some "mental thing."

Fred
</div></div>

What else can it be?

Q

JoeW
11-27-2009, 08:12 AM
AT times there can be physiological problems. Those who have these conditions are worked with individually.

Qtec
11-27-2009, 08:30 AM
Are you saying it could be a medical problem? If that's the case, he needs a Doctor not a coach or a trainer.



Q

JoeW
11-27-2009, 08:32 AM
BTW RandyG really does use the mumble, mumble thing. Course you have to be there to hear him tell the why of it. He may be cryptic, but there too is a technique that works.

Well lets say there are conditions more like stuttering, part physiological and part emotional. Over long periods of times these can become engrained and require medical and psychological intervention. In a few cases our knowledge is not sufficient to remove the problem.

Cornerman
11-27-2009, 08:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's more than some "mental thing."

Fred
</div></div>

What else can it be?

Q </div></div>Chemical imbalance related to depression and anxiety conditions.

Fred &lt;~~~ not a pychiatrist, just a patient

bradb
11-27-2009, 11:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cornerman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've discussed my problems with the yips over the years. It's bad. And it's a reason why I don't play as much anymore. No mantra chanting, no relaxation techniques, and no trust in my stroke will get rid of them. In my case, the yips are a carry over from my daily life of anxiety/panic attacks that have plagued me all of my life.

I feel your opponent's pain. Many of these helpful things people are saying on this thread, it might help many cases, but not the real yips. It's more than some "mental thing."

Fred </div></div>

Fred, I hear you on this.

I posted a comment in another thread that I have ATD with high anxiety and have been struggling with it most of my life. I've tried all the medication, been to counceling, done it all, but basically I've just learned to live with it even though the older I get the worse it has become... too many demons to live with.

I once had to forfiet a match because of a anxiety attack and I swore I would never play again, but I love the game so much I could'nt stay away.

I know what you mean by its "more than mental". The pain in my chest when I have an attack is real... its not imagined... its a real physical problem as a result of a phycological condition and it has to approched as a coping process, and that comes from the brain.

I said to myself I'm not going to let this s___ defeat me. Its pacing that helped me, plus a sort of set routine I use to get out of it as mentioned above. I think each of us need to find what it is we can use and try it till it works.

I like what the character said in the movie A perfect mind. When asked how he overcame the voices that kept talking to him he said, "I told them I'm ignoring them and to go away."

Brad

Brian in VA
11-27-2009, 12:05 PM
Fascinating discussion.

I agree that it's not a one time thing. It truly develops over a period of time so that, even if it goes away briefly, you can be standing over a shot and feel it coming on again. (I haven't had this happen in pool but it did in golf. It was if I was having an out of the body experience and watching myself, just waiting for the flinch. It was painful for everyone. My playing partners would look the other way so as not to get it themselves. Can't blame them, that's how I got it in the first place.)

The technique of slowing down, restarting, waiting until one is absolutely ready and then pulling the trigger are what got me out of it on the golf course. As I said, I had to rebuild my process from the start of he shot. Truth is, I still get it when I'm chipping although it's not all the time; I'll go months without it happening and then-----here it comes!

To Fred, I never heard of something that was caused by a physical issue but it certainly makes sense that one exists. Any way to change the medication?

Stay the course and don't give up!

Brian in VA

bradb
11-27-2009, 12:30 PM
Good points there Brian. In the case of the yips, time is the healer.

A pro golfer in trouble will spend a lot of time walking all around the shot from every angle...but they know what to do... they are not really studying the shot so much as they are giving themselves time to get their mind and body used to the situation and disapate the fear.

brad

Cornerman
11-27-2009, 02:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brian in VA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To Fred, I never heard of something that was caused by a physical issue but it certainly makes sense that one exists. Any way to change the medication?

</div></div>I'm taking semantic liberties with the physical and chemical aspect of psychology. However, I can say that although I have struggled with anxiety and mild panic attacks all my life, I might be able to connect an arm injury I had several years ago that may have helped coax that sad portion of my life into my game.

I've gone through normal daily meds that would normally treat anxiety as well as having a prescription to a beta blocker. Though they "help," they don't cure.

Fred

bradb
11-28-2009, 12:14 PM
There is a recent treatment where a therapist places small electrodes on each knee, then they repeat over and over the positive aspects of your mental make up. The constant interaction of the vibrations as they talk re-focuses your anxiety so that you can be grounded and you go into a sort of calmness.

Later when you are in a stressful stituation, you tap your hands on your shoulders and mimic the treatment repeating the words in your mind. I was sceptical as hell but it actually helped.

This treatment has proved useful for survivors of accidents who have PTS.

Joe would know about this, I can't rememeber the exact name.

Brad

Cornerman
11-28-2009, 12:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bradb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a recent treatment where a therapist places small electrodes on each knee, then they repeat over and over the positive aspects of your mental make up. The constant interaction of the vibrations as they talk re-focuses your anxiety so that you can be grounded and you go into a sort of calmness.

Later when you are in a stressful stituation, you tap your hands on your shoulders and mimic the treatment repeating the words in your mind. I was sceptical as hell but it actually helped.

This treatment has proved useful for survivors of accidents who have PTS.

Joe would know about this, I can't rememeber the exact name.

Brad




</div></div>THanks for the info Brad. I'm not sure I love this game enough to undergo this, but I might have to think about it.

Fred

cushioncrawler
11-28-2009, 04:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bradb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a recent treatment where a therapist places small electrodes on each knee, then they repeat over and over the positive aspects of your mental make up. The constant interaction of the vibrations as they talk re-focuses your anxiety so that you can be grounded and you go into a sort of calmness.
Later when you are in a stressful stituation, you tap your hands on your shoulders and mimic the treatment repeating the words in your mind. I was sceptical as hell but it actually helped.
This treatment has proved useful for survivors of accidents who have PTS. Joe would know about this, I can't rememeber the exact name. Brad</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cornerman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THanks for the info Brad. I'm not sure I love this game enough to undergo this, but I might have to think about it. Fred</div></div>Fred -- If it were big electrodes, on testicles, i think i would take up fishing too.
madMac.

Chilled
11-29-2009, 12:19 AM
No doubt the person who does find a cure for the yips is going to make a lot of money out of it.

I have a friend who is an elderly but still very competent ex pro golfer who is poetry in motion until he has to chip from anywhere between 10 to 30 yds from the green. As soon as he prepares to get over the ball you can see his whole body language change and it's as if somebody has thrown a switch. The silky scratch golfer who drove it and ironed it that point suddenly becomes the worst hacker imagineable.

To me that means it is almost certainly in his case 99% mental as he's already expecting the worst before he even addresses the ball.

On the funny side we were playing a few months ago when he hit it in 2 up to within 12 yds or so of the edge of the greeen and 30 yds from the pin on a long par 5. You could see him shake as he got over the chip.He took an ugly jerky swing at it and half chunked it, his clubhead hit the ball for a second time as it followed through and sent the ball straight up in the air. He stood there bewildered and looking around for where the ball had gone.

At that point gravity had one more laugh at him as the ball descended, bounced off the top of his head and came to rest on the edge of the green.We needed help to work out the penalties involved lol.

cushioncrawler
11-29-2009, 02:28 PM
Chilled -- Probly the shanks (in golf) iz a form of yips sometimes. I remember a mate told me he suffered from the shanks so much that one time in matchplay he shanked 3 chips in a row and ended up where he started in front of the green.
I hadta address the golfball outside the toe of my irons else i shanked too.
Penaltys -- I think 2 kontakts = 2 -- Plus ball in motion = 1 -- plus hitting self = 2 -- total of 5 for the shot.
I hav double hit a lot -- and i hav hit myself -- but not at same shot.
madMac.

Chilled
11-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Yes crawler it would seem very possible that the shanks are a form of yips for some people. For others shanks are just slightly bad timing because as you probably know a shank is very close to being a good contact/shot, far closer for example than most chunking or thinning is to being good contact. It would probably be almost impossible to double hit a true shank, even if it was a chip shot.

Re the ruling I wouldn't put a lot of money on it but I'm pretty sure the correct number of shots counting in the case I described was 3 shots not 5....... bad enough at that lol.

I think that a total of 3 shots was arrived at by counting 2 shots for the double hit and only a 1 shot penalty for him deflecting a ball in motion when it hit his head on the way down (not a 2 shot penalty). An accidental double hit in the course of playing one stroke definitely doesn't incur an additional penalty for hitting a moving ball.

cushioncrawler
11-29-2009, 04:52 PM
I made my own full set of shankless irons -- hencely shanks were no longer a problem for me.
They last used to make shankless irons back in about 1900.
If anyone markets shankless irons they would make a killing.
Later, i simply got my hands on the largest irons i kood buy -- and theze blades were long enuff that shanking woz nearnuff eliminated.
madMac.

wolfdancer
11-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Mac, I never had the shanks in Golf, but found a couple of other ways to embarrass myself. I had just begun to play at age 21, and I'm on about my 3 rd or 4th round. I didn't know that my Uncle was a starter on the GC, and being a warm day, they were sitting outside on a picnic table just yards away from the first tee. Wanting to impress my Uncle, I hit my drive, pulled it, and it hit a large elm tree just to the right of the fairway about 40-50 yards away, bounced backwards off it and onto the clubhouse roof. I used to say it ran down the drainpipe and came out near him....but I think i added that part in.
Another time, in another city, Cleveland...I was teeing off by myself on the first hole, and the foursome behind me included the Bar owner and bartender, where I often drank. I swung, missed most of the ball except for the very top, and it just fell off the T.
I did just about the same thing on my second attempt....and then let the foursome play through.
The golfing story being circulated in that era was about how football great Jim Brown, an amazing athlete, who was also All American at Syracuse University at La Crosse...and I think had been offered a minor league baseball contract....
Jim had taken up golf, and was playing in the 70's in his first year. He reportedly had won, say ...$100k? from some construction firm owner.
Jim was the best back that I have ever seen. He could run over you, or around you, or do the halfback option pass accurately....
And with Paul Warfield as the other running back, they couldn't key on Jim anymore. They traded Paul away for the rights to another great All-American from Syracuse, Ernie Davis....but Ernie never did get to play as he developed Leukemia, before the season started.
what was this thread about...the yips???

bradb
11-29-2009, 10:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chilled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No doubt the person who does find a cure for the yips is going to make a lot of money out of it.

I have a friend who is an elderly but still very competent ex pro golfer who is poetry in motion until he has to chip from anywhere between 10 to 30 yds from the green. As soon as he prepares to get over the ball you can see his whole body language change and it's as if somebody has thrown a switch. The silky scratch golfer who drove it and ironed it that point suddenly becomes the worst hacker imagineable.

To me that means it is almost certainly in his case 99% mental as he's already expecting the worst before he even addresses the ball.

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When I was back in the snooker league our best player was a very good ball striker. He liked to hit every shot with strong pace. Every shot would hit the back of the pocket dead center with a resounding bang!

Then one time he was presented with a delicate safety that required a very soft hit to roll up behind another ball. He looked extremely nervous standing over the shot and did about 30 practice swings. We were all looking at each other wondering what the problem was... it was a simple little shot?

Finally he pulled the cue back and released only to jerk it up short and not hit the Qb! He backed off, composed himself and got back down again.

He lined up the shot again and then for some unexplainable reason pulled his cue back much too far for the hit, he realized his mistake coming forward and stopped short again.

By now it was sheer agony to watch, but we did'nt know what to do.

His arm was shaking so much by now we knew a disaster was coming! Sure nuff he pulled the cue back way too far and slashed at the QB sideways sending it off the table where it careened off the bar and smashed the mirror!

Some wag yelled FOUL! as the glass fell from its frame.

It was funny as hell but the poor guy was really suffering, we bought him a beer and told him to warn us next time he trys a safety so we can all take cover.

Brad

Chilled
11-30-2009, 04:48 AM
Excellent bradb, can picture it! Foul!!!! lol.

Way back I remember the pro snooker player Patsy Fagan having horrendous yips when using the rest. He simply couldn't release to complete the shot and just kept sawing away at the rest with his cue.

Eric bristow the pro dart player also had a similar problem. He couldn't actually let go of the dart. He just kept making the proper throwing motion without actually letting go.

Apologies if anyone has already mentioned those, I haven't read the whole thread.

bradb
11-30-2009, 11:27 AM
Those are new ones Chilled, very funny... and strange! It reminds me of that bowler on America's funniest who did'nt let go of the ball and wound up sliding down the alley on his stomach!

To this day I'll never know why our player hit the ball hard like that, its as if his arm took over and defied his brain.