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1Time
12-11-2009, 04:21 PM
First of all a pool player may grip a pool cue any way desired.

For those who can't understand that simple sentence, I will elaborate. A pool player is someone who holds a pool cue and plays pool. Their objective while doing so may be to win, improve, have fun, look good, or whatever. Their reason for gripping the cue as they do may be for comfort, simplicity, to maximize shot making, or whatever. There is no one correct way to grip a cue, and there is no wrong way either.

However, if the objective is to play better pool, I've found it beneficial to try different grips and use what works best.

pooltchr
12-11-2009, 05:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no one correct way to grip a cue, and there is no wrong way either.

</div></div>

I might agree with the first part of that statement, but can't quite buy into the second half.

Steve

Soflasnapper
12-11-2009, 07:34 PM
Certain specialty situations call for special grips.

Recently I read somewhere it was considered an old-time tip when cueing at cue balls close to the rail to tighten up the grip considerably (as one wouldn't normally do). Despite it going against normal advice for normal shots, it seems to help (at least me). Avoiding the topping over miscue I think.

1Time
12-11-2009, 09:53 PM
Good thing I explained this... lol.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no one correct way to grip a cue, and there is no wrong way either.

</div></div>

I might agree with the first part of that statement, but can't quite buy into the second half.

Steve </div></div>

BCA Master Instr
12-12-2009, 04:34 PM
I wonder what side of the bed you woke up on today?


There is always a correct way and a wrong way to grip a golf club, baseball bat and tennis racket.

As a matter of opinion, I think the word "grip" is wrong. Grip implies strength. That's the last thing we need in pool.

I do agree to try different things.

Most of our better pool players keep their same "grip" on the cue stick but they do move that location for certain shots.

Happy Holidays

pooltchr
12-12-2009, 05:41 PM
I'm ready to start a campaign to change the use of the word describing how we hold a cue from "grip" to "cradle"!

Steve

cushioncrawler
12-13-2009, 06:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCA Master Instr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....There is always a correct way and a wrong way to grip a golf club, baseball bat and tennis racket.....</div></div>I wouldnt uze the word "correct" -- i would say a "best" way to grip a golf club etc -- and i would say that there aint one "best" -- i would say that it iz different for many of us -- we all hav our own peculiar best.

Gene Sarazan had a peculiar grip -- someone once called it an ugly bunch of bananas. And i saw a champion amateur who uzed a 4 finger overlap -- outdrove Greg Norman.
madMac.

BCA Master Instr
12-14-2009, 10:13 AM
and then there was Moe Norman's grip...

wolfdancer
12-14-2009, 10:58 AM
Moe rescued my game, sort of. Somebody repackaged Moe's "Natural Golf" as "Symple Golf", and that copied grip worked for me!!!
Moe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2FBoHmq_h8)
Now I just "grip it and rip it" (you have to factor in my age though....I remember reading "Mad Ducks and Bears" George Plimpton.
They were going to have a charity Golf Pro-Am tournament, blind draw for the pro. Alex Karras was going to find a midget with a decent golf swing, as one of the "pros" The idea being he would hit one down the middle about 110 yds, then yell out "I ripped that one"....kind of like my "rips"

As for pool...you can play with a death grip, or a holding a teacup grip, but why not play with the grip recommended by most instructors?

BCA Master Instr
12-14-2009, 01:56 PM
Natural Golf has made the game much easier for me also....

cushioncrawler
12-14-2009, 02:30 PM
Me, myself, i took an old 3 metal'wood and an old 1 metal'wood, and i redrilled and glued the shafts about 6deg more closed -- and now, if i try to slice, the ball goze straight -- and, i can hit the 1MW off the fairway higher than an ordinary (non'closed) 3MW -- and, the closed 3MW goze higher than an ordinary 5MW.

In the old dayz i used to do the same sort of thing but by making my own woods uzing laminations of marine ply.
I came within one inch of getting an albatross uzing my home'made driver and home'made 5 wood.

Once i asked the pro at the driving range to try to slice my closed driver -- he couldnt -- with hiz last effort he actually hit the biggest hook of all -- and he gave up.
madMac.

wolfdancer
12-14-2009, 03:05 PM
Mac, when i first began playing, I had a big slice....took a lesson from a PGA certified pro, who couldn't fix my swing, but decided he could "fix my driver. He cut a hook face into it, but ruined the club in the process...I'm hoping "certified" instructor in any sport, means a little more nowadays.
Easiest way to correct a slice was Johnny Miller's method....swing your arms faster then you turn your shoulders. The 1-mw was a "Godsend" as the old saying was that only God and Ben hogan could hit a 1-iron, (and only Ben would try it with the match on the line). I did have a Ping 1-iron that I liked...evidently someone else liked it better then I did, as when I came out from the snack bar, it had flown away.
Golf owes a lot to pool, as a chance meeting at a GC in Carlsbad, Ca between cue maker Richard Helmstetter and Ely Callaway, changed the design of Golf Clubs forever.

cushioncrawler
12-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Woofly -- Yeah, Callaway blew away years of constipated bullshit and its adherants.
Now, a chance meeting between madMac and ????? might take golf to the next level -- non'slice woods.
I think that some guys out there do make closed woods -- wooden but.

I allso bent and grinded my (bought) irons to be non'slice -- they now make Pings look like Hagans.
Actually, i made my own irons (clubheads) for a while -- they looked like Fred Flintstone's.
madMac.

wolfdancer
12-14-2009, 10:46 PM
Mac, Nike now makes an adjustable driver, that allows you to open or close the face angle.
I buy my clubs from golfclubs4less.....he sells knockoffs, and my driver is a copy of the Nike Sasquatch.....my irons are copies of Callaway X-15's
Now they are on the X-22. i just went to their site and they are selling a range finder for just $429.95 (I guess that sounds cheaper then $430 ??? )
I need one of them because I can only track my ball for the first 300 yds, then I lose sight of it. I've been having to hold back some so that wouldn't happen......

Bambu
12-14-2009, 11:31 PM
You know its getting slow in here

....when guys are talking about golf.

BCA Master Instr
12-15-2009, 09:33 AM
If we can't play we can talk.....:-)

cushioncrawler
12-15-2009, 03:00 PM
But, if golf clubs arent the same -- and if cues arent the same -- and if players arent the same -- then grips aint the same.
I slice my Qball -- so, i need a non'slice cue -- or a non'slice grip.
RangeFinders are legal in golf?????????
madMac.

BobN
12-15-2009, 06:21 PM
Been a long time since I've posted on here, but thought I'd throw my 2c in on this one... btw, no worries bout me talking golf. Never did get the game!

I used to, occasionally, work for RandyG at Cue Tech and there is one wrong way to grip a cue... my ex GF's daughter called it "Blue Cue"... she said when i got tired, I'd grip the cue so tightly that it turned blue... Learned to relax that a little and my game went WAY up, especially the late night game.

Good go see you, Randy, Steve...

Bob Nunley
once upon a time BCA Certified Instructor...

BCA Master Instr
12-15-2009, 06:34 PM
Hi Bob

And a hell of good Instructor you were! Miss you out here teaching....

pooltchr
12-15-2009, 07:57 PM
Hey Bob! Good to see you back here. Your mug is still up on the photo gallery of my web site from a class we did a few years ago.
I'm guessing fly fishing took priority over pool?

Steve

JJFSTAR
12-16-2009, 08:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First of all a pool player may grip a pool cue any way desired.

For those who can't understand that simple sentence, I will elaborate. A pool player is someone who holds a pool cue and plays pool. Their objective while doing so may be to win, improve, have fun, look good, or whatever. Their reason for gripping the cue as they do may be for comfort, simplicity, to maximize shot making, or whatever. There is no one correct way to grip a cue, and there is no wrong way either.

However, if the objective is to play better pool, I've found it beneficial to try different grips and use what works best. </div></div>

Irrefutable; however it is also irrelevant to 99.99% of the discussion that goes on here. Because most of the discussion here has the objective of learning how to play pool to the best of ones natural ability given the time they have to devote to it. And once you throw in that qualifier there becomes a right way and a wrong way for 99.99% of the people on earth for almost everything including the grip in pool, golf or whatever.

Bambu
12-16-2009, 09:17 AM
There is no one correct way to grip a cue, and there is no wrong way either.

A pool cue should not be treated as an erogenous zone. Any decent shooter knows the death grip is a no-no. Personally, I think he knows this.....but enjoys stirring the pot.

wolfdancer
12-16-2009, 11:56 AM
Mac....my advice to you is................Get a grip...

BobN
12-16-2009, 06:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Bob! Good to see you back here. Your mug is still up on the photo gallery of my web site from a class we did a few years ago.
I'm guessing fly fishing took priority over pool?

Steve </div></div>

Steve, Actually three knee replacements and a move to the great pool desert of North Central Arkansas have slowed me down. I am doing a lot with the fly rods and fly fishing, but I keep after the pool. I have a note in to Fran about reinstating my certification. I've let that go over the past 3 years or so, but am anxious to get back into the mix.

Back on the subject, I figured out how, at least short term, to relax your grip. Have Carpal Tunnel Release surgery done! Had it last friday and I'm going to play tonight, but there won't be any thunderbolt breaks or "Blue Cue" going on!

Bob

pooltchr
12-16-2009, 06:48 PM
Three knee replacements? I'm sure there is an off color joke in there somewhere if I tried, but I'll let that slide.
I've been kidding Randy about being the bionic man with his hip and knee replacements...I guess you are following the same pattern. Am I missing out on something I should know about??

Steve

BCA Master Instr
12-17-2009, 10:08 AM
Cat's out of the bag. All good poolplayers have three knees....

wolfdancer
12-17-2009, 11:26 AM
I heer'd Randy asked the Doc, after the surgery "will I be able to play golf?"
And he replied "I don't see why not" Then Randy said "Well I've never been able to play before"
Randy, hope the surgery will prove to be a 100% success!!!
I have played some with folks that have had similar surgeries

Scott Lee
12-19-2009, 01:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been a long time since I've posted on here, but thought I'd throw my 2c in on this one... btw, no worries bout me talking golf. Never did get the game!

I used to, occasionally, work for RandyG at Cue Tech and there is one wrong way to grip a cue... my ex GF's daughter called it "Blue Cue"... she said when i got tired, I'd grip the cue so tightly that it turned blue... Learned to relax that a little and my game went WAY up, especially the late night game.

Good go see you, Randy, Steve...

Bob Nunley
once upon a time BCA Certified Instructor... </div></div>

Bob...Good to hear from you again! Seems like you got lost there for awhile. Are you back to playing pool again? Hope so. We need all the good instructors we can get!

Scott Lee

wolfdancer
12-19-2009, 12:24 PM
Scott, best wishes for the Holidays!!!

Scott Lee
12-19-2009, 11:00 PM
Thanks Jack...same to you and yours!

Scott Lee

JoeW
12-20-2009, 01:15 PM
I go back and forth on this one. For me it is definitely better to use the “V” grip where the cue stick is touching or close to the area between the thumb and first finger. This keeps the ringer finger and the little finger off the cue stick and I don’t steer the stroke as much.

On the follow through it seems “better” to grip a little tighter as the cue comes into contact with the cue ball. From a logical perspective it seems that I have better control over the cue stick and follow through with a “positive” grip. Apparently snooker players use something similar as they appear to tighten their grip as they make contact.

I realize that the cue stick is only in contact with the cue ball for a very short period of time. None-the-less the quality of this contact is obviously important. With slightly more pressure at contact I seem to be better able to control the hit.

With a very light grip (a cradle) the momentum, the stroke and must be more accurate and the cue tip’s curvature is more important as there is only the hit based on stroke and cue stick weight. With a slightly tighter grip it seems that I have better control of the tip deformation and hence the direction the cue ball takes.

Currently, it seems to me that I am a little more accurate with increased pressure at contact but it could all be in my head. It seems that the same principles that are at work when cueing high off the rail are also at work when the cue ball is in the middle of the table.

I wonder what others have found when they study the quality of the hit.

BCA Master Instr
12-20-2009, 05:01 PM
I find just the opposite. A little tighter grip causes my cue tip to stray off line. With a relaxed "cradle" I can just let the cue stick do what it was made to do....

The feedback that I get is instant. Any tighter grip and the feedback gets "mooted".....

JoeW
12-20-2009, 06:52 PM
Interesting observation Randy. Now I am going to have to put some real effort into studying these two type of grips to see what happens with my shooting.

pooltchr
12-20-2009, 07:20 PM
I'm not sure I would want to be changing my grip in mid stroke. I tend to agree that a relaxed cradle type grip that remains consistent is most effective for me.

Steve

Scott Lee
12-20-2009, 11:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Currently, it seems to me that I am a little more accurate with increased pressure at contact but it could all be in my head.
</div></div>

That's the most likely answer Joe.

Scott lee

Scott Lee
12-20-2009, 11:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Currently, it seems to me that I am a little more accurate with increased pressure at contact <span style="color: #FF0000">but it could all be in my head. </span></div></div>

Seems the most likely answer Joe!

Scott Lee

Soflasnapper
12-21-2009, 11:16 AM
Interesting, Joe.

I personally never get the cue up into that v-part of the thumb-index finger joined area for a regular shot. Sometimes I'll use that on a power break.

I'm so much the opposite of what you suggest that sometimes, I rest the cue on my little finger alone (with the cue basically off of (above) the rest of the fingers), per a recommendation long ago here from Lenard X, iirc.

But this raises the question of what change in grip, if any, is required and/or recommended as of the contact of the cue tip to the cue ball.

I've somehow become convinced that there ought to be some tightening of grip as of the time of contact, yet I've always known that my most accurate cueing in the past involves getting the hand OFF the cue in a more pure ballistic throwing motion. (which hanging the cue's weight off the little finger alone encourages, as it almost creates a slip-stroke action).

So, question to all: does the grip tighten either naturally or by design as of the contact with the ball, AND same question for the differing condition of executing a power break?

BCA Master Instr
12-21-2009, 11:40 AM
[quote=Soflasnapper]Interesting, Joe.

I personally never get the cue up into that v-part of the thumb-index finger joined area for a regular shot. Sometimes I'll use that on a power break.

I'm so much the opposite of what you suggest that sometimes, I rest the cue on my little finger alone (with the cue basically off of (above) the rest of the fingers), per a recommendation long ago here from Lenard X, iirc.

But this raises the question of what change in grip, if any, is required and/or recommended as of the contact of the cue tip to the cue ball.

I've somehow become convinced that there ought to be some tightening of grip as of the time of contact, yet I've always known that my most accurate cueing in the past involves getting the hand OFF the cue in a more pure ballistic throwing motion. (which hanging the cue's weight off the little finger alone encourages, as it almost creates a slip-stroke action).





<span style="color: #FF0000">So, question to all: does the grip tighten either naturally or by design as of the contact with the ball, AND same question for the differing condition of executing a power break?</span>

A good grip (cradle) should neither tighten nor loosen at contact. That's what makes it a good grip.

POWER BREAK??????? Why would anything change? Maybe a little more stick speed than normal.

A tight grip could cause two things (if not more) to happen.

1. Mis-hit the cue ball.
2. More muscles slow the swing down.

We are talking about 1/1000 of a second here. I sure can't control that. I can control my swing......

Soflasnapper
12-21-2009, 12:07 PM
Randy, that's what I always thought, and thanks for that response.

I got confused by thinking about the instruction that one should accelerate THROUGH the contact time, and deciding that a ballistic throw would obviously DEcelerate as of the contact.

I'm now guessing that the language there is somewhat imprecise, that one DOES stroke THROUGH the contact point without an intentional deceleration (although that does occur regardless), which is another way to say 'follow through, bud!'

I expressed myself wrongly on my power break grip question. I don't exactly try to grip THEN (at time of impact); it's more that I put the cue pretty firmly in the v of the thumb-first finger, and hold it firmly throughout the stroke (and maybe slightly clinch it more as of contact).

I think that does tend to deaden the hit, probably through the muscle tension in the arm/hand mechanism.

JoeW
12-21-2009, 12:24 PM
While I don’t have any study results yet to back up the ideas here are a couple of things that occurred to me.

Striking a cue ball is similar to driving a nail with a hammer. If I have a very light grip on the hammer it is likely to “bounce” off the side of the nail and thus I do not strike through the nail and drive it straight as I desire. It is “better” to have a firm grip on the hammer to “drive” the nail. This type of thinking seems to apply to a cue ball. That is, I am attempting to drive and roll the cue ball in some predetermined way.

BTW one of the things I learned when putting on a barn roof many years ago with a hammer is to drive through the nail to a point inside the wood. There are many fewer misses and the nail can often be driven with one blow.

With a very light grip the stick may bounce / reflect or ricocheted off the cue ball during the strike. While this is a very short period of time the issue is not length of time but accuracy of directing the cue ball exactly as I want it to move. A firm grip can be used to hit through the spot struck with more accuracy along the intended line of travel.

I realize that the stick ways about three times the weight of a cue ball. None-the-less there is cue ball resistance when it is stuck and it seems to me that positive force is needed during this very short period of time to drive the cue stick straight through the intended contact point on the cue ball. BTW a hammer ways 30X the nail and it will reflect but thee is also much more resistance.

It then comes down to how much positive force is needed? It seems that some people use very little force and use the weight of the stick and the stroke to overcome resistance. Others use body muscles to impart “more” positive force. Using stick weight and speed may eliminate any error due to muscle involvement but may lead to less accurate positive force in the direction intended. The addition of muscle control is less likely to involve reflection at contact but may introduce other errors.

I suspect it depends, to some extent on the player and their mastery of their body and the cue stick. One way may be better for some players and another way for other players.

It seems to thast the amount of force applied by the hand is undefined. That is, when some people say hold it lightly their definition may be a death grip in my thinking and vice versa.

Bambu
12-21-2009, 12:30 PM
I think human nature has us think we need a tight grip to add power, but we dont. It's not the hand which supplies the power, its the complete stroke and the force behind it.

I know you guys like golf, but I like comparing this topic to baseball. Ever see a professional hitter accidentally throw his bat into the stands? It happens because good hitters use a loose grip. Hall of famer Dave Winfield was famous for throwing his bat into the stands. New baseball players learn this quickly when a tight grip bruises the palms of their hands.

Pro hitters know they dont need a tight grip to add power to their swing. All that does is add tension to their swing, slowing down their bat speed(or in this case....cue speed). The main reason is, loose muscles are faster than tight muscles. I never played golf, but I bet the approach would be the same.

Soflasnapper
12-21-2009, 01:40 PM
I think Winfield was trying to hit Steinbrenner in the stands!

cushioncrawler
12-21-2009, 03:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think human nature has us think we need a tight grip to add power, but we dont. It's not the hand which supplies the power, its the complete stroke and the force behind it. I know you guys like golf, but I like comparing this topic to baseball. Ever see a professional hitter accidentally throw his bat into the stands? It happens because good hitters use a loose grip. Hall of famer Dave Winfield was famous for throwing his bat into the stands. New baseball players learn this quickly when a tight grip bruises the palms of their hands. Pro hitters know they dont need a tight grip to add power to their swing. All that does is add tension to their swing, slowing down their bat speed(or in this case....cue speed). The main reason is, loose muscles are faster than tight muscles. I never played golf, but I bet the approach would be the same.</div></div>The thing iz, with a golf swing, u apply lots of torq to the stick, ie in addition to a bit of pure'pull.
With pure'pull only, your hand(s) will slip off.
But, with lots of torq, u can apply lots of pull too, ie with zero pure'grip pressure.

With a cue, u dont need no torq on the shot.
With a cue, u need lots of pull.
Hencely, u need to grip fairly tightly, for a forcefull shot.
Or, if u dont grip tightly, u need to apply lots of torq, somehow -- i do.
Sometimes i hav zero grip pressure -- just pure'torq pressure.

Obviously for slow shots the wt of the stick in the "cradle" iz sufficient -- no grip'pressure or torq'pressure needed.
madMac.

JoeW
01-05-2010, 02:34 PM
Over on AZB Greyghost wrote about a warm up drill he uses. The drill is to place the OB one diamond of the foot rail and one diamond off the side rail. Place the cue ball at the other end of the table for a straight in shot.

He evaluates his stroke by pocketing the object ball followed by the cue ball. I thought this was a neat drill that I had never really tried as practice. According to Greyghost it is a good drill to evaluate your stroke.

I refined it a little for cue ball control by attempting to pocket the object ball and leave the cue ball within one inch of the same pocket. The object ball can be placed anywhere from center table to just off the pocket.

I found an interesting thing for my way of playing.

If I use the cradle grip and basically let the weight of the cue stick move the cue ball I tend to miss the shot. It often rolls off line on its way to the object ball. When the shot is made my cue ball does go to the position desired.

If I have a “positive” grip on the cue stick at contact I am more likely to make the object ball and to leave the cue ball close to the target as intended.

So I guess I am confused by the meaning of cradling the cue stick. Apparently the cue stick is more likely to “bounce” off the cue ball when I simply cradle the stick and this leads to a less accurate shot – for me.

It would appear that some amount of grip pressure is needed to gain good control of the cue ball path.

Can I get a few other people to try both ways over 10 – 20 shots alternating a cradle with positive pressure to see if others find the same thing.

I am well aware of the idea that it may just be me who feels a need for a positive grip and thus shoot “better” with this type of grip. If several others try both ways perhaps there is a consensus that one or the other way is definitely better.

Then too, it might just be idiosyncratic.

The too I might be doing something wrong and there is more to the definition of "cradle" that I missed.

JoeW
01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
OK I just ran my own suggested study / drill. Here is what I did and what I found.

I placed the object ball 2 diamonds from the corner pocket. I placed cue ball about one diamond from the rail at the other end of the table for a straight in shot. Shot two shots with a positive grip trying to leave the cue ball about one inch from the pocket. Shot two shots with a cradle grip same position for the cue ball. Change sides of the table and repeat.

Place object ball 3 diamonds from the corner pocket and repeat the above starting on the opposite side of the table with opposite type shooting first.

Place the object ball 4 diamonds from the head rail (center of table) and repeat the above changing as indicated above.

All the changes are what is known as a counterbalanced design and addresses the idea of reducing practice and positional effects in the study.

For me the drill is difficult as it is only the second time I have ever done it. The first time was about an hour ago and I did not track the results.

There are 24 shots in this study, 12 cradle grip shots and 12 positive grip shots. I found that I was successful with the cradle grip on 4 of 12 attempts. I was successful with the positive grip 8 of 12 attempts. Findings are in favor of the positive grip.

I did not keep track of how accurate I was with the positional result for the cue ball. My subjective impression is that I was probably closer to the cue ball target with the positive grip.

For me a positive grip is defined as a slight pinch with the muscle between the thumb and the first finger. This pinching is just enough that I feel like I have control over the direction the cue ball will travel.

After completing the study I tried a few more shots with the positive grip and alternating allowing or not allowing my ring finger and little finger to assist with the shot. Apparently, finger grip contribute to errors in making this shot.

I do not think that I have a bias towards the positive grip. I mean this in the sense that the study was conducted to determine if I should change the way I grip the cue stick. However, In the past I have tended towards a positive grip and this will of course bias the results as this is my “preferred” grip. I should be able to play better with a positive grip because I have more experience with this type of grip.

Further research is needed.

wolfdancer
01-05-2010, 05:09 PM
interesting ideas, Joe...thanks for sharing them
(people been telling me for some time now, that I'm losing my grip)
I saw a comment a while back on either pool or golf?
Someone suggested replacing the word "grip" with "hold", as grip kind of suggests squeezing?

BCA Master Instr
01-05-2010, 05:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">interesting ideas, Joe...thanks for sharing them
(people been telling me for some time now, that I'm losing my grip)
I saw a comment a while back on either pool or golf?
Someone suggested replacing the word "grip" with "hold", as grip kind of suggests squeezing? </div></div>


"CRADLE"

Sid_Vicious
01-05-2010, 06:35 PM
"For me a positive grip is defined as a slight pinch with the muscle between the thumb and the first finger."

I'm the same, except for the introduction of the loose flap of skin in the crotch of the thumb and fore finger to the pinch you describe. It is really the intricate discovery of the exact pressure within that circle of sensation, that makes for each individual's honed perfection. Keeping that remembrance under power shots gets tricky, but done right, works very well. It's off topic but I find the grip in the dart stroke for jumping has exactly the same facets. Just me maybe...sid