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jjinfla
01-07-2010, 10:14 AM
We have all seen a person take a rack of balls and go to a table and just drop them on the table. Then someone says, "Hey, don't do that you will chip the slate". So what is the chance of damaging the slate? I personally think there is a greater chance of damaging the ball.

Jake

jht1953
01-07-2010, 10:46 AM
That's a good question, I let my 2 and a half year old grand-daughter walk on the table and roll the balls into pockets, sometimes she'll wind up and toss one about 2 feet in the air...ouch, I then tell her "Do that again and the games over"
I think it might nick the slate a little, kind of like the little hollow around the head spot....I'd like to hear a table mechanics take on this

pooltchr
01-07-2010, 10:47 AM
Both are potential problems that can be eliminated by not dropping balls on the table. I hate seeing people abuse the equipment. Seems some people have no respect for the property of others.

Steve

bradb
01-07-2010, 12:44 PM
Thats a good question and my answer is no!.... it does not damage it. BUT... its bad form to do that as it appears careless to the equiptment.


But if bouncing balls off the slate damaged it, they would ban jump shots.

-brad

KellyStick
01-08-2010, 11:57 AM
I say that this could damage the slate as this only makes sense. Slate is hard and therefore has a brittle quality to it. Though, I have no data that supports damage to the slate. On the other hand I tell people not to drop the balls on my table and they don't so I don't have that sort of damage. If not the slate then something has to give right? So why not the cloth? Seems crunching the cloth between to hard surfaces is a way to begin creating a hole. This would be especially true in the rack area where dropping might be most commonly repeated.

Finally, I think you can absolutely damage the fill along the slate piece joints (3 piece slate where each butts up against the other) as well as the fill in the bolt holes near these joints depending on what they are filled with.

Bottom line there is no reason to do it. Damage is done to the equipment so don't do it. Especially on my table! My other rule is that liquids and burning items (Cigarettes) are not allowed to cross the outer plain of the table edge. If you wanna shoot pool with your beer on the table edge and a one inch ash hanging off the Butt that's in your mouth then my house is not the place to do that either.

KellyStick
01-08-2010, 11:58 AM
Now jumping balls is part of the game and therefore part of the expected wear and tear of the equipment. This is ok.

bradb
01-08-2010, 02:13 PM
I don't allow any jump shots on my home table. It marks the cloth as you mentioned Kelly.

I had my table broken down and stored for a while and I noticed the slate is quite hard and won't crack or dent, but an extremely hard hit like a hammer (I was'nt about to try it) looked like it could make an empression.

But ball bouncing does'nt hurt it, plus the cloth helps to soften the contact. Brad

wolfdancer
01-08-2010, 03:39 PM
Brad, I've watched one of the country's top mechanics, do several hundred table setups( I did some of the grunt work)..I'd occasionally call out a reminder, when they were putting a table back together "green side up"
He did both commercial and home repairs, and restorations. He's the best working with cracked and broken slate, chipped slate, warped slate.
For cracked slate you grind out a vee shaped groove, Bondo and sand it. Broken slate requires drilling holes in the matching sides, and inserting metal pins to assist in "rejoining" the pieces. Slate is porous, will absorb moisture and warp, and also warp if it is stored improperly.
Slate also comes in several degrees of hardness, and the best slate comes from Italy.
I used to know a bit more about slate...but that was some 20 years ago...now I'm lucky i can find my way home at night.

Here's something on the various hardness value of slate, but I'd guess it's just the hardest slate that is used for table beds.
?? (http://www.schieferlexikon.de/english/geology/hardn.htm)

bradb
01-09-2010, 08:22 PM
Interesting reading. Yes you are right, you can break or crack it if it should it laid be between to points like those Karate experts do when they break tiles.

It can be fixed fairly easy as you mention. I know they placed a mixed plastic sealing material over the seams of my table and sanded it down smooth.

They told me Italian pool slate is polished and very hard and not as brittle as other slates like roofing tiles.

wolfdancer
01-10-2010, 08:01 PM
problem is, if I remember correctly, that some of the manufacturers were now using cheaper "softer?" slate from Vermont.
We used Durham's water putty for the seams, and the bolt holes, but most people use Bondo. If you have to dissemble the table, Bondo can cause the slate edges to chip

gabeski
01-11-2010, 10:50 AM
having worked with a mechanic years ago, and we set up a lot of tables (Both new and used) I never saw one with chipped slate. But I guess it would be possible if indeed they used a cheaper slate. as far as whatt was used for the seams, we always used plaster of paris. It worked fairly easily but lasted a long time.

bradb
01-11-2010, 01:20 PM
As a comical note to not sealing the joints, we stayed at a RV campground last year that advertised that it had a pool table.

Upon arrivaI I headed on down to the rec room to get some playing time in. The table (which was'nt the best quality) had been moved and reassembled several times by the staff who knew nothing about pool tables

As a result the seams were not level and the two ridges on the suface caused the ball to hop and swerve when it crossed over them. In fact if you shot a ball too softly a ridge would catch the ball and guide it to the rail.

It made for some hilarious but very frustrating pool. brad

Scott Lee
01-13-2010, 05:23 AM
Geez Jack...I learn more about you all the time! LOL<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brad, I've watched one of the country's top mechanics, do several hundred table setups( I did some of the grunt work)..I'd occasionally call out a reminder, when they were putting a table back together "green side up"
He did both commercial and home repairs, and restorations. He's the best working with cracked and broken slate, chipped slate, warped slate.
For cracked slate you grind out a vee shaped groove, Bondo and sand it. Broken slate requires drilling holes in the matching sides, and inserting metal pins to assist in "rejoining" the pieces. Slate is porous, will absorb moisture and warp, and also warp if it is stored improperly.
Slate also comes in several degrees of hardness, and the best slate comes from Italy.
I used to know a bit more about slate...but that was some 20 years ago...now I'm lucky i can find my way home at night.

Here's something on the various hardness value of slate, but I'd guess it's just the hardest slate that is used for table beds.
?? (http://www.schieferlexikon.de/english/geology/hardn.htm)



</div></div>

wolfdancer
01-13-2010, 03:40 PM
I'm a joker, a smoker, and a midnite toker....

Gayle in MD
01-14-2010, 10:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bottom line there is no reason to do it. Damage is done to the equipment so don't do it. Especially on my table! My other rule is that liquids and burning items (Cigarettes) are not allowed to cross the outer plain of the table edge. If you wanna shoot pool with your beer on the table edge and a one inch ash hanging off the Butt that's in your mouth then my house is not the place to do that either.
</div></div>

Good for you. When I make a request of a guest asking them not to do this or that while using my table, and they do it anyway, they are never invited back.

G.

wolfdancer
01-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Ernesto Dominguez, besides being a top rated pro player, is also a great table mechanic. Ernesto does use Bondo for the seams. I've probably watched him do a hundred tables. His son Oscar is also a great player, and was/is? assisting Ernesto in recovering tables.
My memory must be getting weak....the other guy did not use water putty for the seams, but filled them with hot wax instead. Doesn't sound like it would work,but I know 3 room owners that wouldn't let anyone else do their tables, and another room owner has him come up to Alaska to do his tables. Bob also has a collection of over 100 antique tables in storage, and a nice collection of online photos of antique tables.
r.e.b. (http://www.rebcobilliards.com/)
We had several of the Madison's in the room, and one or two Kling's, as I recall.
Billiards used to be THE game, and one room in Detroit had around 90 billiard tables, as pocket pool began getting popular, they just converted the 10 ft billiard tables into pool tables.
Not sure exactly when the switch was made to the 9 ft tables of today, but the old Palace billiards in SF, still had several 10 ft pool tables.
As for Bondo causing the edges of the slate to chip....there is a technique to prevent that from happening, that we used....but what a waste of time, since slate doesn't chip.....

bradb
01-17-2010, 01:41 PM
I've never seen a 10 footer, it would be fun to try one.

I love those old tables they were so solid, the rails would make a soft sound when you hit them and the ball would come off very predictable. I think that depending on what era they were from dictated how loose the pockets were. During the 40's table pockets were wider, as big runs like Mosconnis were crowd pleasers. But In the early part of the century a lot were tight as hell.

I visited an old wild west mining town called Barkerville here in the interior of BC. There was an antique table in a saloon from around 1890. It was a real struggle to make a ball down the rail on that table it was so tight.

Schming
02-03-2010, 01:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjinfla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So what is the chance of damaging the slate? I personally think there is a greater chance of damaging the ball.

Jake </div></div>

A quality phenolic billiard ball can withstand an amazing 5 tons of pressure, because the material can "give" or flex to a certain degree. Slate, while technically "harder" than a billiard ball, is much more brittle. 5 tons of weight parked on a slate would snap it in two.

But in the average billiard room setting - if you just dropped a ball on a table from lets say head height, (assuming neither had any flaws) there would be no damage done.

On the other hand, if the ball was travelling fast enough, the slate would eventually chip or pit where the impact was made.


conclusion?

dont bounce balls on your table from the top of the empire state building /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif