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View Full Version : Pelosi crying "Uncle" on bloated HCR



Deeman3
01-21-2010, 01:55 PM
WASHINGTON - Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she lacks the votes to quickly move the Senate's sweeping health overhaul bill through the House, a potentially devastating blow to President Barack Obama's signature issue.

Pelosi, D-Calif., made the comment to reporters after House Democrats held a closed-door meeting at which participants vented frustration with the Senate's massive version of the legislation.

Her concession meant there was little hope for a White House-backed plan to quickly push the Senate-approved health bill through the House, followed by a separate measure making changes sought by House members, such as easing the Senate's tax on higher-cost health plans. Such an approach would be "problematic," she said, though Democrats haven't completely ruled out pursuing it.


<span style="color: #FF0000">Source: MSNBC Homepage

Well, on the positive side, if they can, somehow, start over with an eye toward real cost savings and a porkless bill, perhaps we, as a nation, can pressure them into real change, keeping the good parts (more coverage, voiding pre-existing conditions clauses, etc) and bring drug pricing policy, malpractice abuses and even State competition into the mix.

Sure, on the downside, many Blue states will lose sweetheart deals on avoidance of paying their fair share of Medicade and Louisanna will have to find new cash flow steams for their graft and corruption payoffs but there really could be a good bill out there if the Dems don't play it alone. If they then really have open doors and make a bi-partisan deal and the Repubilcans whimp out, the Dems will not be slaughtered as badely in the next couple of elections.

If they truely tried to make a bill that helped all the people to reduce costs and increase coverage, besides the American public seeing them as human, they might actually do something no politician has done in many, many years, make a bill that actually helps people not in Government. O.k. O.k. I may be in fantasy land but it could happen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

What do you think?</span>

eg8r
01-22-2010, 09:25 AM
I don't want this question to be perceived as being cynical, but I think the answer to it is really the roots of why we have a bloated bill to begin with.

Is there one single major project/program enacted from Congress that completed the majority of its lifecycle on budget and on time? I have worked on many programs in the past decade and I have my bias, but was just wondering if anyone knew of a successful program.

Another way to ask this is what events/bills/programs in our Congress's recent past gives you the warm fuzzy that they can handle Healthcare Reform to the extent of the current 2k page bill?

eg8r

sack316
01-22-2010, 10:28 AM
Hoover dam I guess... seems like it's been a while /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
01-22-2010, 10:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WASHINGTON - Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she lacks the votes to quickly move the Senate's sweeping health overhaul bill through the House, a potentially devastating blow to President Barack Obama's signature issue.

Pelosi, D-Calif., made the comment to reporters after House Democrats held a closed-door meeting at which participants vented frustration with the Senate's massive version of the legislation.

Her concession meant there was little hope for a White House-backed plan to quickly push the Senate-approved health bill through the House, followed by a separate measure making changes sought by House members, such as easing the Senate's tax on higher-cost health plans. Such an approach would be "problematic," she said, though Democrats haven't completely ruled out pursuing it.


<span style="color: #FF0000">Source: MSNBC Homepage

Well, on the positive side, if they can, somehow, start over with an eye toward real cost savings and a porkless bill, perhaps we, as a nation, can pressure them into real change, keeping the good parts (more coverage, voiding pre-existing conditions clauses, etc) and bring drug pricing policy, malpractice abuses and even State competition into the mix.

Sure, on the downside, many Blue states will lose sweetheart deals on avoidance of paying their fair share of Medicade and Louisanna will have to find new cash flow steams for their graft and corruption payoffs but there really could be a good bill out there if the Dems don't play it alone. If they then really have open doors and make a bi-partisan deal and the Repubilcans whimp out, the Dems will not be slaughtered as badely in the next couple of elections.

If they truely tried to make a bill that helped all the people to reduce costs and increase coverage, besides the American public seeing them as human, they might actually do something no politician has done in many, many years, make a bill that actually helps people not in Government. O.k. O.k. I may be in fantasy land but it could happen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

What do you think?</span> </div></div>

The reason why the bill was so complex in the first place, is that it had to include measures which would block the Health Insurance industry from passing on higher costs to consumers.

Taking the bill apart, is difficult to do because of that.

If, for example, Insurance industry is required to accept people with pre-existing conditions, additional markers must be included in the bill that would pre-empt tactics by the insurance industry to simply raise the prices for those accepted subscribers with pre-existing coditions to such high levels that they would not be able to afford the premiums anyway.

My personal opinion is that Republicans are going to continue to vote in a block as obstructionists, regardless of what is in any legislation that comes before them, in their partisan vow to see the President fail, and in their party's usual protection of the very corporate pigs who are destroyed the Middle Class's opportunities.

Democratics should try their best to single out the most obvious helpful aspects, forcing Republicans to vote on one part, at a time, in the open, one effort, at a time that will serve to benefit Americans, and show the people who they are, and just whom it is that they seek most to protect, obviously, IMO that would end up being corporate interests.

The Administration should have placed more emphasis on the number of jobs which would come from covering all Americans. Obviously, the health care industry would have to grow jobs, in order to service more Americans.

According to the CBO, removing malpractice suits, or tort reform, doesn't even make a ripple, in the overall costs.

Unless we force Republicans to show their hand, one health care issue at a time, they will just continue to obstruct.

Misinformation is the enemy. When a simple statement like this true statement of fact, by our president:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> People are angry, and they're frustrated. Not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years.

</div></div>

Is used and twisted into the accusation that the President was blaming someone else, for his own actions, it sould be obvious that many are so partisan, they cannot remain clear headed about the facts of the issue.

Cutting the bill into parts, would helpt to cripple the right's usual attempts to muddy up the waters with social issues, many of which didn't even exist in the bill, in the first place, but the misinformation, and scare tactics, will still be the enemy, as long as the Republicans, and the corporate interests continue to spend huge amounts of money to decieve and scare the public.

The difficulty lies in the fact that as government legislates to benefit the country, working class Americans, by trying to get costs under control, the corporate powers figure out ways to pass on any losses which evolve, to consumers, effectively canceling any progress for consumers, or order to maintain their multi-million dollar salaries, and huge proft margins.

Hence, the vastly complicated process of bringing about changes through legislation, which could help working class Americans. it up against human greed, and human greed, is ever so powerful..

Cutting costs, overall, for example, is quite real, when people can get the necessary testing in time to cure their illnesses. Many, never have the money for this, and in the long run, sicne they have no insurances at all, they end up in emergency rooms, costing far more in the long run, to all of us, than a public option would cost us.

Medical insurance companies, in their on-going quest to avoid covering their own customers, cause tremendous additional costs to the health care industry, in red tape, which does not contribute at all to curing illnesses. too many of the dollars spent on health, and health insrucance, do nothing to really promote, or protect, our health.

Without clauses which ban the insurance industry from refusing to cover those with pre-existing conditions, hundreds of thousands of people would still be left out, and in dire need, which in the long run, is the single greatest cause of rising costs in the first place.

Without a public option, the HCII still has a shared monopoly, and can continue to mistreat the consumer. going across state lines, is a joke, since most people who cannot afford health care, also cannot afford to travel to another state when they become ill, and state by statem the laws are different, so there we have just another opportunity for corporate money, spent to buy local politicians, and create the regulations they want, to force people to only get health care inside the state where they live.

What good is insurance, if they can drop you right when you need to collect on the assurances of the very safety net, which you have paid for, for decades?

Corporate America will never do the right thing, unless they are forced to do it. In order to force them to do it, legislation has to predict their course of corruption. Hence, the winding path, or complication, cause great confusion, and complicated legislation.

If they (Corporate America) had it in them to do what is right, legal, fair, and with conscience, we wouldn't be so ill as a nation, to begin with. Air, water, and food contamination, dangerous chemicals, the multi faceted corporate pollution of our environment, all of which are results of profit based, non regulated, enterprise. All of it, is making more and more of us ill.

Corporations make us sick, then corporations dump us when we fall ill.

Now, the RW USSC, has given them even greater opportunity for buying off any accountability. They will now have the unlimited opportunity to buy their own representatives.

As the President stated, a big win for oil, insurance, big pharma, etc....

Improvments would be very simple, if everyone had a conscience, and if people were not just out for lining their own pocketbooks, and to hell with the lasting impact on the current, and future generations of the world, and of this country. As in the economic collapse, the corporate CEO's care only about their love of money. They have no conscience. Their only God, is greed.

There are always exceptions to statments such as those I make above. Overall, when discussing corporate America, they are few.

G.