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Deeman3
02-01-2010, 08:06 AM
<span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, having goaals that children be actually able to read and write by 2014 is just not fair to the Teacher's Union. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Let's set more modest goals. </span>



The Obama administration is proposing a sweeping overhaul of President Bush’s signature education law, No Child Left Behind, and will call for broad changes in how schools are judged to be succeeding or failing, as well as for the elimination of the law’s 2014 deadline for bringing every American child to academic proficiency.

Educators who have been briefed by administration officials said the proposals for changes in the main law governing the federal role in public schools would eliminate or rework many of the provisions that teachers’ unions, associations of principals, school boards and other groups have found most objectionable.

Yet the administration is not planning to abandon the law’s commitments to closing the achievement gap between minority and white students and to encouraging teacher quality.

Significantly, said those who have been briefed, the White House wants to change federal financing formulas so that a portion of the money is awarded based on academic progress, rather than by formulas that apportion money to districts according to their numbers of students, especially poor students. The well-worn formulas for distributing tens of billions of dollars in federal aid have, for decades, been a mainstay of the annual budgeting process in the nation’s 14,000 school districts.

Peter Cunningham, a Department of Education spokesman, acknowledged that the administration was planning to ask Congress for broad changes to the education law, but declined to describe the changes specifically.

Gayle in MD
02-01-2010, 08:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, having goaals that children be actually able to read and write by 2014 is just not fair to the Teacher's Union. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Let's set more modest goals. </span>

<span style="color: #000066">I don't that that's fair. I don't know how many teachers you are talking to, but I know quite a few, and NCLB is a failure. </span>



The Obama administration is proposing a sweeping overhaul of President Bush’s signature education law, No Child Left Behind, and will call for broad changes in how schools are judged to be succeeding or failing, as well as for the elimination of the law’s 2014 deadline for bringing every American child to academic proficiency.

<span style="color: #000066">Since better education for our students is one of the President's most important goals, I'm quite sure that he will replace whatever he eliminates, with a better way forward in acheiving them. NCLB, was immediately defunded, by Bush, which left schools across our country in chaos, and in more ways than one. </span>

Educators who have been briefed by administration officials said the proposals for changes in the main law governing the federal role in public schools would eliminate or rework many of the provisions that teachers’ unions, associations of principals, school boards and other groups have found most objectionable.


<span style="color: #000066">Excellent! It's high time to undo this Bush Fiasco. It has been a total failure, just like everything else he did to this country. </span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Yet the administration is not planning to abandon the law’s commitments to closing the achievement gap between minority and white students and to encouraging teacher quality. </span>

<span style="color: #000066">Contrary to your appraisal of the intentions, don't you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, having goaals that children be actually able to read and write by 2014 is just not fair to the Teacher's Union. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Let's set more modest goals. </div></div> </span>


<span style="color: #000066"> </span>
Significantly, said those who have been briefed, the White House wants to change federal financing formulas so that a portion of the money is awarded based on academic progress, rather than by formulas that apportion money to districts according to their numbers of students, especially poor students. The well-worn formulas for distributing tens of billions of dollars in federal aid have, for decades, been a mainstay of the annual budgeting process in the nation’s 14,000 school districts.

Peter Cunningham, a Department of Education spokesman, acknowledged that the administration was planning to ask Congress for broad changes to the education law, <span style='font-size: 20pt'>but declined to describe the changes specifically. </span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">Why not wait until the plan is revealed, before you make a judgement about it? Teachers tell me they have been crippled by the NCLB. Testing, is not teaching. My daughter works with the teachers in my grand daughter's school. She knows plenty about what our teachers are up against, and how much Bush's NCLB has hurt the school system, overall.

Teachers and parents are having to come up with the moeny to properly run our public school system. The result, is that the parents who care the most about their children's education, are actually being taxed twice, to correct the mess Bush made with NCLB, which he defunded for the sake of UNPRECEDENTED Republican EARMARKS like highways and bridges to no where....

G. </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

pooltchr
02-01-2010, 09:05 AM
Dee, our public education system is continually lowering the bar in order to be able to meet their goals, and qualify for more money.
There was a local discussion here recently because the state college system released data showing that a large majority of freshmen needed to take a basic algebra class (high school level) in order to get into the freshman level classes. It seems the school systems had lowered the requirements for students to graduate, so their graduation rates would look good. That is what they do. Rather than working on improving education, they just bring down the requirements to be a high school graduate.

When asked about this particular report, our school board chairman admitted that there might be a "disconnect" between the public school requirements and the college requirements!

The dumbing down continues!

Steve

hondo
02-01-2010, 03:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dee, our public education system is continually lowering the bar in order to be able to meet their goals, and qualify for more money.
There was a local discussion here recently because the state college system released data showing that a large majority of freshmen needed to take a basic algebra class (high school level) in order to get into the freshman level classes. It seems the school systems had lowered the requirements for students to graduate, so their graduation rates would look good. That is what they do. Rather than working on improving education, they just bring down the requirements to be a high school graduate.

When asked about this particular report, our school board chairman admitted that there might be a "disconnect" between the public school requirements and the college requirements!

The dumbing down continues!

Steve </div></div>

No, Steve, the dumbing down of posters continues.
Students have more requirements in math and science than they have ever had.
Thus, phys ed, tech ed, music, arts are being dumped cause there is no time in the daily schedule for them anymore.

My county was number one in the state in test scores year after year and always on the cutting edge of State Dept expectations.

But we were burned out,and our students who cared and tried
were run ragged.

I taught 7 classes a day. We arrived at 7:45 and could leave a 3:45. Usually with a ton of papers to grade.
Lesson plans had to be intricate plus a lot of bullshit paperwork. Plus, we had hall duty, lunch duty, clubs ,adviser- advisees.

The quality students worked their ass off.
Most didn't care and had no support at home.

WADR, most of the bitching about the quality of education comes from Right Wingers who seem to hate everything anymore.

Visit some schools. Find out for yourself what's really going on.

Gayle in MD
02-01-2010, 03:37 PM
All very true, Hondo. The NCLB was and is a total disaster.

The pity is that we've lost a lot of good teachers, because of NCLB, and BUSH!

I swear, it will take half a century to undo all the mess that that one man made for our country.

g.

pooltchr
02-01-2010, 06:23 PM
Hondo,
If a high school diploma does not mean the holder meets the minimum requirements to enter a freshman college class, there can only be one of two conclusions. Either they have raised the standards to enter college, or they have lowered the standards to get a diploma.

I've seen the results of the dumbing down of our public education system in the inability of high school graduates to compose a simple paragraph. You may believe it is tougher now, but most adults know better. We teach to the tests, not to give an education. While you will probably deny it here, in your heart, you know it to be true.

Steve

hondo
02-01-2010, 10:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hondo,
If a high school diploma does not mean the holder meets the minimum requirements to enter a freshman college class, there can only be one of two conclusions. Either they have raised the standards to enter college, or they have lowered the standards to get a diploma.

I've seen the results of the dumbing down of our public education system in the inability of high school graduates to compose a simple paragraph. You may believe it is tougher now, but most adults know better. We teach to the tests, not to give an education. While you will probably deny it here, in your heart, you know it to be true.

Steve </div></div>

NCLB started the movement to teach to the test.
Believe me, teachers hated it.

I always said that I would never lower my standards.
Hondo at 2006 would be the same as Hondo was in 1977.
Guess what? None of my students would have passed.
Were the teachers worse?

No, the kids didn't care and the parents didn't support the kids, teachers, or schools.

I know, Bamadawg would blame that on liberals but that's all bullshit.
Families HAVE fallen apart, however, and it has had a profound
effect on the ability of teachers to reach their students.

As for greater requirements to graduate, I stand by my post.
Do a little research, Steve. Don't just post what you THINK is right.

pooltchr
02-02-2010, 08:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No, the kids didn't care and the parents didn't support the kids, teachers, or schools.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I would agree that this is probably the number one problem with schools...and it is one area that the government can do absolutely nothing about.</span>



As for greater requirements to graduate, I stand by my post.
Do a little research, Steve. Don't just post what you THINK is right. </div></div>

I guess we will disagree on that point. When you and I went through school, we got a functional education. Times tables in the 3rd or 4th grade...and you LEARNED them! Sentence structure? We learned nouns, verbs, adverbs,etc and how they needed to work together in a sentence. Remember diagraming sentences? High School graduates today just look at you with a blank stare if you ask them about it.

Kids who didn't learn the lessons FAILED and had to REPEAT that grade. Didn't matter if you were black, white, pink or green, you learned it. Now we have social promotions because it's bad for a kid's self esteem to tell him he failed. So it is possible, and happens quite frequently, that someone graduates from high school without the basic knowledge needed to function at an acceptable level.

NCLB did not do this. It was happening long before anyone even knew who GW was. It was happening long before we even knew who the Clintons were. I can not lay the blame on any one program or administration, but more at a social trend that has gradually been building for many years. The same people who tell us not to keep score in a ball game, or make sure every kid on every team gets a trophy, have caused it. The fact is, some kids do better in school than others. And while it's important to try and help the underachievers as much as possible, it can not be at the expense of those who are willing and capable of working on their education.

You can lead a horse to water...

Steve

Deeman3
02-02-2010, 08:47 AM
With the deteriorating families and the poor choices teachers face of teaching to the students that have interest or to the lowest common denominator, I think we have to, at some point, decide that some students just can't be salvaged and should not be just "passed on" to make numbers.

I see the product of the public school system every day in the knowledge, work ethics and capability of people at the core of what the educational system is for, preparation for work and life.

Maybe, I am wrong and Hondo can help if that is true but would a system that caters to those who do have some family support along with those who behave want to learn make all this more achievable? Face it, most of the kids who are disruptive, violent and disrespectful in the classroom are going to end up doing things that do not require an education. Would it not be wise to spend money and resources on the ones that have some personal discipline and have a decent chance of using an education?

How will Obama's plan, of anyones, help that. It seems, just lowering standards to allow schools to meet targets won't get us there.