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TomBrooklyn
08-17-2002, 11:39 AM
It has been said that one can get position to anywhere on the table when shooting at a ball hanging near a pocket.

There are probably a lot of considerations depending on where your shooting the CB from and the exact position of the hanger. What are some of the techniques used on this shot to get to a certain place?

Diagrams can be made on the RSB table at: http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Tom_In_Cincy
08-17-2002, 12:31 PM
Practicing "hanger" shape for anywhere on the table is a very good idea.

I like to try to get to the center of the table (good idea for 14.1 matches) and getting from the "hanger" to the opposite endrail on either side. Speed, angle of hit on the OB and any type of english will have varying effects on the cue ball.

The deeper the OB is in the pocket, the less options you have to get shape. The corner of the pockets come into play.

Diamond tables have a very deep pocket where you can have a ball so deep, that it is almost impossible to play the cue ball off the rail to make contact with the OB..

Scott Lee
08-17-2002, 01:10 PM
Tom...Getting easy position off of balls that are close to a pocket is one thing. Those are NOT hangers. A hanger is a ball VERY close to the pocket, and it something few players practice. When I am teaching someone about hangers, I teach them to NEVER leave them for last...because
you can easily screw up position off of a hanger. Too much overspin, or too much speed, and a hanger can end up killing you. Sorry I don't have time for diagrams...I'm packing to leave on my fall tour today!

Scott Lee

08-17-2002, 01:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> Tom...Getting easy position off of balls that are close to a pocket is one thing. Those are NOT hangers. A hanger is a ball VERY close to the pocket, and it something few players practice. When I am teaching someone about hangers, I teach them to NEVER leave them for last...because
you can easily screw up position off of a hanger. Too much overspin, or too much speed, and a hanger can end up killing you. Sorry I don't have time for diagrams...I'm packing to leave on my fall tour today!

Scott Lee <hr></blockquote>


Hi Scott, some people are living high on the cue,LOL. Maybe I can be you in another life,LOL. Have yourself a good tour. Terry

08-17-2002, 09:19 PM
You've got yourself a cliffhanger, on or near dead center corner pocket, and you are WAAAAY on the other end of the table looking for shape back on your CB's origin launching point. You can almost always count on missing hitting these hangers going rail first, even the points. Do you go for a monster draw or what? Let's hear some ideas...siddd

Tom_In_Cincy
08-17-2002, 09:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Sid Vicious:</font><hr> You've got yourself a cliffhanger, on or near dead center corner pocket, and you are WAAAAY on the other end of the table looking for shape back on your CB's origin launching point. You can almost always count on missing hitting these hangers going rail first, even the points. Do you go for a monster draw or what? Let's hear some ideas...siddd <hr></blockquote>

Here is one way.. for what you describe...

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cheesemouse
08-17-2002, 09:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> Tom...Getting easy position off of balls that are close to a pocket is one thing. Those are NOT hangers. A hanger is a ball VERY close to the pocket, and it something few players practice. When I am teaching someone about hangers, I teach them to NEVER leave them for last...because
you can easily screw up position off of a hanger. Too much overspin, or too much speed, and a hanger can end up killing you. Sorry I don't have time for diagrams...I'm packing to leave on my fall tour today!

Scott Lee <hr></blockquote>
I was told many years ago to never take a jawed OB for granted and to always take the time to go down and look at the ball from the top or with your eyes looking directly down at the ball. You will get some good information everytime.

08-17-2002, 09:48 PM
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Here's the deal Tom,,,sid

08-17-2002, 09:53 PM

Tom_In_Cincy
08-17-2002, 10:02 PM
Sid,

even with ball in hand.. that deep.. a full table length draw is not easy at all..

that is truely a hanger.

I would have to try to play off the tip of the corner pocket and prey... from the original position..

Rod
08-17-2002, 10:39 PM
Take dead aim. Most players will always hit too much o/b. The overspin on the c/b will kill it dead if hit fat. Speed and aim is the answer. Low english will speed up the c/b off the end rail and widen the return angle but it still has to be hit thin. I stay away from any side english if possible because it is a real testy shot. The confusing part is the ball drops and you don't get to see what angle you really hit the o/b at, like you would if it was away from the pocket. In this example you see where you need to hit the one ball, now just put it in the jaws, where the 5 is and use the same appx angle. The c/b will travel towards A, use draw and hit a "little" more ball and it will travel towards B. In either case it is a "finesse" shot.
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They ain't easy but with practice you have a good chance of getting decent position.

Troy
08-17-2002, 10:47 PM
Another idea.... Although I'm not really sure of the CB path without being at a table. I picture the CB coming off the end rail point to the side rail etc..... I think it really depends on pocket size.... 5" will be much different then 4.5" or even smaller..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

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Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Sid Vicious:</font><hr> START(
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Here's the deal Tom,,,sid <hr></blockquote>

Rod
08-17-2002, 11:01 PM
Quote Tom, "I would have to try to play off the tip of the corner pocket and prey... from the original position.. "

HAHA Tom, Praying is not out of the question!! I'd use draw and concentrate on a thin hit to bring the c/b around three rails. No side english because the c/b is going left anyways. A little Left is ok but it cuts down on accuracy. As many posts as I see here about squirt, I'd think that would be a primary concern. When I say draw, it is enough to prevent overspin, because it is not shot that hard. These shots are anything but easy as we know. Aim is so important.

TomBrooklyn
08-17-2002, 11:42 PM
If the OB is too far in the jaws, I don't think it's possible to get position to anywhere on the table. If hanger is the wrong term, then how about when the object ball is very close to the pocket? Can everyone get position to anywhere on the table from any cue ball starting position?

Sid_Vicious
08-18-2002, 07:32 AM
That'd be the natural idea, but in the case I present I am talking about a ball so deep that you are really forced to wonder if there's enough OB outside the tangent of the pocket opening to trust being able to skim. I've seen players better than me totally miss the OB with that attempt when the OB is absolutely hanging off the edge of the pocket. I do have a shot I use for that scenario...sid

Sid_Vicious
08-18-2002, 07:43 AM
Tom...Try this and see what happens. Hit one side, 1/3 of the OB with a firm to fast stroke, high center english. You'll find that the CB sails in 2 general directions depending on which side you hit the OB. There are variances of course(pool, always something new, don't you love it!) of the OB being off center, pocket characteristics, etc., but I'll wager you that you will see the CB ping off one tit or the other, "wingo" to the adjoining rail and then come cruising down table. Work that shot sometime and you'll discover a new weapon, much more dependable than the draw...sid

Fran Crimi
08-18-2002, 08:59 AM
Great question, Tom. If the ball isn't deep in the jaws, I believe you should be able to get the cue ball just about anywhere...but it isn't necessarily easy.

If a ball is hanging in the pocket, I'll go over and take a look at it and decide whether or not I should get to it early (play a combination into the ball) or shoot it directly. In 9 ball, since you're pocketing balls in sequence, it all depends on the layout.

Take this example for instance: Let's say I had BIH on the one ball. I would probably elect to follow for the 2-6 combination and try to leave the 2 hanging for position on the 3. Even if the 2 falls into the pocket during the combination, I'll still have decent posision on the 3 to get to the 4, as long as I run my CB forward when I shoot the shot. Shooting the 6 to get to the 7 is risky and my percentages of getting on the 7 from the 5 are better than from the 6.

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Fran

heater451
08-19-2002, 09:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> ...because you can easily screw up position off of a hanger. Too much overspin, or too much speed, and a hanger can end up killing you.<hr></blockquote>I usually do both, overspin AND overcook. . . .

However, I believe Grady Matthews has a book or video, with info on how to deal with these, but I can't seem to find the specific 411 on his site ( www.poolbilliards.com (http://www.poolbilliards.com) ).

bluewolf
08-19-2002, 10:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> It has been said that one can get position to anywhere on the table when shooting at a ball hanging near a pocket.

There are probably a lot of considerations depending on where your shooting the CB from and the exact position of the hanger. What are some of the techniques used on this shot to get to a certain place?

Diagrams can be made on the RSB table at: <a target="_blank" href=http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html>http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html</a> <hr></blockquote>

a nonexpert opinion. inside eng. after the ball goes in, the cb reverses speed and hits the rail and if you have the angle right, it will bounce off the end rail and hit the long rail and move on up the table.ball speed is critical here. anyway, these are the kind of shots i dream about.

bluewolf