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Qtec
02-28-2010, 06:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These really are just hideous people, any way you look at it:

At yesterday’s health care summit, Rep. Louise M. Slaughter (D-NY-28) related this story from one of her constituents:

I even have one constituent—you will not believe this, and I know you won’t, it’s true. Her sister died, this poor woman had no dentures. She wore her dead sister’s teeth, which of course were uncomfortable and did not fit. Do you believe that in America that that’s where we would be?

What was the reaction from leading members of the conservative media?

* On Twitter, Michelle Malkin wrote: “We need trillion-$ Demcare cuz someone had to wear their sister’s dentures! O: “Terrific conversation”

* On his radio program, Glenn Beck stated, “I’ve read the Constitution … I didn’t see that you had a right to teeth.”

* Author and radio host Laura Ingraham told Bill O’Reilly that Slaughter’s tale was “ridiculous” and a “sob story.”

* Fox Nation, the website maintained by the Fox News Channel, labeled Slaughter’s comments “Summit Insanity.”

I don’t know whether to interpret this response as to them just not believing anything that a Democrat says, their being complete assholes, or the fact that all of these folks are so well off that the concept of hand-me-down clothes, let alone dentures, sounds bizarre and foreign to them. After all, there is no poverty in America- all those welfare queens got their big screens somehow.

It really is amazing, though. I didn’t flinch when I heard this story, but then again, I live in an area where people make the calculation to not do anything about a sore tooth until they can justify getting it pulled- because that is cheaper than a root canal or anything else. I know people who don’t check their blood sugar, or who don’t take their meds, because they simply can not afford the equipment or the treatment. And they all work. They all have jobs.

It is easy to chalk this all up to them being assholes, but I really do think a lot of them are just oblivious. That is why we can have septuagenarian assholes like Andrew Malcolm bleating about people in line for food at a shelter having the nerve to own a cell phone. But then again, they just don’t care to know, so I guess that does, indeed, make them assholes.

On the other hand, thank goodness Rep. Slaughter didn’t mention that woman’s name, or you know who would be on her doorstep giving us a play-by-play about her kitchen counters. </div></div>


The GOP, the party of the common man.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THE PRESIDENT: Let me just -- there’s one thing I've got to -- there are a number of issues, as usual, that I've got significant difference with. I'm just am curious. Would you be satisfied if every member of Congress just had catastrophic care? Do you think we’d be better health care purchasers? I mean, is that a change that we should make?

SENATOR BARRASSO: Yes, I think actually we would. We’d really focus on it. You’d have more, as you say, skin in the game -- and especially if they had a savings account, a health savings account. They could put their money into that --

THE PRESIDENT: Would you feel the same way if --

SENATOR BARRASSO: -- and they’d be spending the money out of that.

THE PRESIDENT: <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Would you feel the same way if you were making $40,000, or you had -- that was your income? Because that's the reality for a lot of folks. I mean, it is very important for us -- when you say, to listen -- to listen to that farmer that Tom mentioned in Iowa; to listen to the folks that we get letters from -- because the truth of the matter, John, is they’re not premiers of anyplace, they’re not sultans from wherever. They don't fly into Mayo and suddenly decide they’re going to spend a couple million dollars on the absolute, best health care. They’re folks who are left out.

And this notion somehow that for them the system was working and that if they just ate a little better and were better health care consumers they could manage is just not the case. The vast majority of these 27 million people or 30 million people that we're talking about, they work every day. Some of them work two jobs. But if they're working for a small business, they can't get health care. If they are self-employed, they can't get health care.

And you know what, it is a scary proposition for them. And so we can debate whether or not we can afford to help them, but we shouldn’t pretend somehow that they don't need help. I get too many letters saying they need help.</span> </div></div>


Q

pooltchr
02-28-2010, 07:26 AM
So the solution to the problem is to force every person in the country to spend 20% of their income to buy health insurance?????

These people who are making $40K bring home after taxes maybe $30K if they are lucky, and probably less than that. Out of that $30K the government is going to fine them if they don't spend $8K a year for health insurance?

Good Plan!!! (at least it is for the insurance companies!!!)

Steve

Gayle in MD
02-28-2010, 10:09 AM
You do an excellent job pointing out the vast Repiglican hypocracy!

Pretty clear, as it has always been to me, Republicans only care about their corporate fascist cronies, the top 1%, for whom they pass tax cuts, launch wars, protect the corporate gougers of Middle Class Americans, and keep all of us from having the same health care protections that many other countries enjoy.

What gets me about them the most, is the way they lie non stop, launching wars for profit, running up huge debts, to communist countries, and then turn around and try to blame the other party for all of it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

If RW voters are too stupid to see the difference between the six year nightmare of chimp Bushand his Republican congressional blankcheck, earmark record breaking, spending and borrowing fiasco, verses Obama having to spend money to divert the resulting global economic collapse, then they shouldn't be voting at all....

Mind you, these are the same people who said, "Debts don't matter" and they are still just as stupid as they were back when they jumped behind Bush and supported the lies he told to push us into the Iraq disaster.

The right is always happy to spend billions upon billions every month on killing people on the other side of the world, but don't expect any Repiglicans to give a **** about forty five thousand Americans dying with no health care, or children in this country going to bed hungry, or a crumbling infrastructure, which Bush and the Repigs totally ignored for years, Bush- 8 years, Republicans - 12 years!

Of course, none of the RW posters on this site, ever wants to address or acknowledge all of the repiglican policies which led to our current multi disasters, created and left by REpiglican policies, so only some sarcastic, snide and petty response will follow my post, likely from one of the more ignorant from the right.



/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

pooltchr
02-28-2010, 10:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty clear, as it has always been to me, Republicans only care about their corporate fascist cronies, the top 1%, for whom they pass tax cuts, launch wars, protect the corporate gouging of Middle Class Americans, and keep them from having the same health care protections that many other countries enjoy.

What gets me about them the most, is the way they lie non stop, launch wars for profit, run up huge debts, and then try to blame the other party for all of it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

If they're too stupid to see the difference between the six year nightmare of the Bush/Republican congressional blankcheck earmark record breaking spending fiasco, and Obama having to spend money to divert complete economic collapse, then they shouldn't be voting at all....mind you, these are the same people who said, "Debts don't matter" and they are still just as stupid as they were back when they jumped behind Bush for the lies he told to push us into the Iraq disaster.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif </div></div>

What does any of that have to do with the healthcare bill? (That was the topic of his post, by the way)

Steve

Qtec
02-28-2010, 08:48 PM
NO. That's what's happing now.
The Senate Bill that you have now was forged by the GOP. Its a GOP plan not a Dem plan! That's why its so crap.

Q

pooltchr
02-28-2010, 11:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NO. That's what's happing now.
The Senate Bill that you have now was forged by the GOP. Its a GOP plan not a Dem plan! That's why its so crap.

Q

</div></div>

You should probably stick to cut and paste. The GOP had nothing to do with writing this bill. They weren't even invited to the closed door sessions. The Dems believe that because they won the election they can do whatever they want to do, totally ignoring the fact that the majority (and it keeps growing) of Americans are against passage of the bill.

Steve

Qtec
03-01-2010, 07:03 AM
Everything you believe is wrong. You are just spouting GOP TPs that are just not true.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>Remarks by the President in Discussion of Insurance Coverage at Bipartisan Meeting on Health Care Reform</span>


Senator McConnal.......REPRESENTATIVE Roskam mentioned what the people in his district think, and I expect all of you are experts on what the people in your districts think. But we know from the polling that's been done in this country how the American people feel about this 2,700-page bill. We know how they feel about it. This is not a close call. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>If you average all of the polls in America, we know that the American people oppose this proposal by -- on an average of 55 to 37 percent.</span>

THE PRESIDENT: I'm just going to make this remark, and then I'm going to call on Patty Murray -- I'm going to save the two lions of the House here for the end -- because there's been a lot of comments from every Republican about the polls and what they're hearing from their constituents. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>And, as I said, I hear from constituents in every one of your districts and every one of your states. <u>And what's interesting is actually when you poll people about the individual elements in each of these bills, they're all for them. So you ask them, do you want to prohibit preexisting conditions? Yes, I'm for that. Do you want to make sure that everybody can get basic coverage that's affordable? Yes, I'm for that. Do you want to make sure that insurance companies can't take advantage of you and that you've got the ability, as Ron said, to fire an insurance company that's not doing a good job and hire one that is, but also, that you've got some basic consumer protections? Yes, we like that.</u> </span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>So polls I think are important in taking a temperature of the public. If you polled people and asked them, is the system working right now and should we move forward with health reform, they'd also say yes to that. And my hope had been, and continues to be, that based on this conversation there might be enough areas of overlap that we could realistically think about moving forward without -- without a situation in which everybody just goes to their respective corners and this ends up being a political fight, because this is something that really has to be solved.</span></div></div>

All the things that people really want, are the things the GOP has fought tooth and nail to deny them.

Like the man said, "you may be entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts."


Q

pooltchr
03-01-2010, 08:41 AM
This is not a close call. If you average all of the polls in America, we know that the American people oppose this proposal by -- on an average of 55 to 37 percent.


What part of this do you fail to understand?????????????

Steve

LWW
03-01-2010, 10:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is not a close call. If you average all of the polls in America, we know that the American people oppose this proposal by -- on an average of 55 to 37 percent.


What part of this do you fail to understand?????????????

Steve </div></div>

The part about why these @*!&#%$'ed stupid Americans won't follow dearest leader's plan to turn the USA into the train wreck that is Eurabia.

LWW

Qtec
03-02-2010, 01:05 AM
We can't have a discussion if you ignore or instantly dismiss everything I say or quote.



Again, <span style='font-size: 20pt'>why do they oppose the bill in its present form when they want all the things Obama mentioned.</span>
They also wanted the Public Option and that's not in the bill because the Dems compromised with the GOP on that. Big mistake.

Many, if not most progressives <u>are against this bill but are for HC reform! How do you explain that.</u>

Q

pooltchr
03-02-2010, 07:31 AM
That one is pretty easy. I personally believe we need some form of healthcare reform, but do not believe the bill in the Senate or the House is the best way to handle it.
First and most important, I do not like the idea that the government will be forcing people to buy insurance. And the cost to a middle income family is going to be a huge percentage of their household income. (this is how they claim to be keeping government costs down)
Have you noticed that the insurance companies aren't fighting the bill? If you were in the business of selling a product and the government was going to make every American buy it, wouldn't you be happy?
I agree that addressing pre-existing conditions is necessary.
I don't like the fact that they won't lift the ban on purchasing insurance across state lines.
Cutting Medicade to fund this bill is simply robbing Peter to save Paul. It does not save money, it just redistributes it.
As a vet, I have access to VA healthcare if I want it. I can tell you that it is very inefficient. Wait times for apporintments are outrageous. There is no reason to think that any government program managing healthcare would be any different.
I do not like the idea of a database of everyone's medical history. That is information I do not want my government to have access to.

I believe that an open and honest look at some regulation of the industry is probably needed, although I'm not a big fan of over regulation. But establishing a huge government boondoggle is counterproductive.

To hold down medical costs, I think tort reform is the best way to address it. Medical insurance is the highest single cost for doctors. They have to cover their costs. If they can't they don't stay in business. And being a doctor is nothing other than a small business. They have to consider their P&L just like any other business. Capping prices for providing medical service for medicare medicade or a government plan simply means doctors will have to determine if providing those services will be cost effective. Already, many of them are determining it is not.

So yes, I believe we need reform, and no, I do not like what the Dems have offered as a solution.

Steve

LWW
03-02-2010, 01:09 PM
Your ideas do not further empower the state and do not blame Bush ... hence you are deemed as dangerous by some.

LWW

eg8r
03-02-2010, 01:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">* On Twitter, Michelle Malkin wrote: “We need trillion-$ Demcare cuz someone had to wear their sister’s dentures! O: “Terrific conversation”

* On his radio program, Glenn Beck stated, “I’ve read the Constitution … I didn’t see that you had a right to teeth.”

* Author and radio host Laura Ingraham told Bill O’Reilly that Slaughter’s tale was “ridiculous” and a “sob story.”

* Fox Nation, the website maintained by the Fox News Channel, labeled Slaughter’s comments “Summit Insanity.”</div></div>I agree with each one of these quotes. When the Reps were in control the lefties said the use of "fear" was reprehensible, yet that is the ONLY thing the left has done in an effort to promote their healthcare bill, of which no one even wants in its current state.

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2010, 01:16 PM
I agree, he really sounds more foolish when he tries to input his own thought. Only an idiot would sit back and actually listen to the words of Pelosi, Reid and Obama and still think the Reps are the driving force in the formulation of this bill.

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2010, 01:17 PM
Do you honestly think Obama is going to be 100% forthcoming with the truth when he is getting slaughtered over this bill? Fear is his MO.

eg8r

LWW
03-02-2010, 01:26 PM
He honestly believes that if dearest leader tells him to honestly believe it then he will honestly believe it.

LWW

Gayle in MD
03-02-2010, 01:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything you believe is wrong. You are just spouting GOP TPs that are just not true.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>Remarks by the President in Discussion of Insurance Coverage at Bipartisan Meeting on Health Care Reform</span>


Senator McConnal.......REPRESENTATIVE Roskam mentioned what the people in his district think, and I expect all of you are experts on what the people in your districts think. But we know from the polling that's been done in this country how the American people feel about this 2,700-page bill. We know how they feel about it. This is not a close call. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>If you average all of the polls in America, we know that the American people oppose this proposal by -- on an average of 55 to 37 percent.</span>

THE PRESIDENT: I'm just going to make this remark, and then I'm going to call on Patty Murray -- I'm going to save the two lions of the House here for the end -- because there's been a lot of comments from every Republican about the polls and what they're hearing from their constituents. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>And, as I said, I hear from constituents in every one of your districts and every one of your states. <u>And what's interesting is actually when you poll people about the individual elements in each of these bills, they're all for them. So you ask them, do you want to prohibit preexisting conditions? Yes, I'm for that. Do you want to make sure that everybody can get basic coverage that's affordable? Yes, I'm for that. Do you want to make sure that insurance companies can't take advantage of you and that you've got the ability, as Ron said, to fire an insurance company that's not doing a good job and hire one that is, but also, that you've got some basic consumer protections? Yes, we like that.</u> </span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>So polls I think are important in taking a temperature of the public. If you polled people and asked them, is the system working right now and should we move forward with health reform, they'd also say yes to that. And my hope had been, and continues to be, that based on this conversation there might be enough areas of overlap that we could realistically think about moving forward without -- without a situation in which everybody just goes to their respective corners and this ends up being a political fight, because this is something that really has to be solved.</span></div></div>

All the things that people really want, are the things the GOP has fought tooth and nail to deny them.

Like the man said, "you may be entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts."


Q </div></div>

The Repiglican misinformation campaign on this bill has surely been an unconscionable effort.

From the "Death Panels, to the "Birthers" our progress as a nation is stunted by political drama and tactics, used by Repiglicans, for political purposes. I'll wager there isn't a single person from the right on this forum, who has actually watched both HCR debates from beginning to end.

Even after the President spent six hours explaining the bill, and the CBO confirmed his statistics, the RW propaganda is still the only thing the right knows about, all lies. The lies about who is for and against this bill are laughable. The majority of people, Democratics, and independents, want the public option. Democratics need to push it through, and totally ignore Repiglicans. That's been their biggest mistake.


Repiglicans made complete fools of themselves in the forum, parroting the same worn out phrases, over and over again, and the "Start Over" bs, just more of thier usual do nothing about any of our pressing issues as a country.

Their BS: "Americans are against this bill" when actually, most Americans want more of the Democratic version, without the Republican ideas, not less, similar to the same BS presented as facts on this forum.


Hilarious and sad, that we as a nation, are plagued with such a painfully misinformed citizenry! Bunning is the typical nutcase Republican. A disgrace.

G.

LWW
03-02-2010, 02:05 PM
Why are you shadow posting behind me again?

LWW

pooltchr
03-02-2010, 03:01 PM
What Republican ideas are in the bill, and when were they involved in crafting the bill?

Steve

Qtec
03-03-2010, 03:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">* On Twitter, Michelle Malkin wrote: “We need trillion-$ Demcare cuz someone had to wear their sister’s dentures! O: “Terrific conversation”

* On his radio program, Glenn Beck stated, “I’ve read the Constitution … I didn’t see that you had a right to teeth.”

* Author and radio host Laura Ingraham told Bill O’Reilly that Slaughter’s tale was “ridiculous” and a “sob story.”

* Fox Nation, the website maintained by the Fox News Channel, labeled Slaughter’s comments “Summit Insanity.”</div></div>I agree with each one of these quotes. When the Reps were in control the lefties said the use of "fear" was reprehensible, yet that is the ONLY thing the left has done in an effort to promote their healthcare bill, of which no one even wants in its current state.

eg8r </div></div>

Once again you are so totally totally wrong.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fear mongering (or scaremongering) <span style='font-size: 14pt'>is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end.</span> The feared object or subject is sometimes <u>exaggerated</u>, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of <u>repetition</u>, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle. </div></div>

Examples of fear mongering.

This Obamacare is a Govt takeover.
Death panels......to kill old ladies and veterans.

Or this,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WASHINGTON - The national Republican Party has mailed a fundraising appeal <span style='font-size: 20pt'>suggesting Democrats might use an overhaul of the health care system to deny medical treatment to Republicans.</span>

A questionnaire accompanying the appeal says the government could check voting registration records, "prompting fears that GOP voters might be discriminated against for medical treatment in a Democrat-imposed health care rationing system."

It asks, "Does this possibility concern you? </div></div>


The poor woman who used the second hand dentures could only have done it out of necessity.......yet the Christian RW mock her.

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Mentioning facts is not fear mongering.
Fear mongering involves predicting something bad is going to happen.....which reflects exactly the tone of every statement uttered by the opposition since Obama became Pres Elect.
It's the end of the world.
</span>

OMG........Obama the terrorist sympathiser [who hangs about with terrorists] wants to take your freedom....kill you.....kill your Gradma.....etc.....because we all know he hates whitey......


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and Beck exclaimed <span style='font-size: 14pt'>that Obama has "over and over again" exposed himself as "a guy who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture. </span>I don't know what it is..."

When Fox's Brian Kilmeadeon pointed out that many people in Obama's administration are white, so "you can't say he doesn't like white people," <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Beck pressed on. "I'm not saying he doesn't like white people, I'm saying he has a problem," Beck said. "This guy is, I believe, a racist."</span> </div></div> .....etc ..etc.

That's you squelched. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif


Q,,,,,,,,, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif

Qtec
03-03-2010, 04:09 AM
Get this clear. The Senate Bill is NOT the bill that the Dems were proposing. Its the bare bones of an effort to control the HC costs that are crippling the USA. Watered down to nothing by the GOP.
Medicare runs at 3% admin costs. 97% is used to treat real patients.

Your average HC Ins Co takes 25/30%. That means only 70% of the money coming in is used to treat real patients.

This is a no brainer.

These are not admin costs any more, these are profits! Its immoral.





Q..BTW....You might have to wait but you will be seen........

pooltchr
03-03-2010, 08:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> these are profits! Its immoral.


</div></div>

And that is the core of our differences. I do not believe that making a profit is immoral. I believe that making a profit is the reason we even have business which is what drives the economy. If profits are not allowed, business will die, and so will the economy.
If profits get out of control, the consumer will not do business with the economy. The only time profits become a problem is when the government gets involved in business and allows business to operate with little or no competition.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Steve

sack316
03-03-2010, 09:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get this clear. The Senate Bill is NOT the bill that the Dems were proposing. Its the bare bones of an effort to control the HC costs that are crippling the USA. Watered down to nothing by the GOP.
Medicare runs at 3% admin costs. 97% is used to treat real patients.

Your average HC Ins Co takes 25/30%. That means only 70% of the money coming in is used to treat real patients.

This is a no brainer.

These are not admin costs any more, these are profits! Its immoral.





Q..BTW....You might have to wait but you will be seen........ </div></div>

Where'd you get that info? When I look up Health insurance companies profit, I find several percentages depending on year and source. Nowhere do I see anything close to 25-30%. In fact, what I see seems to range from 2.2%-3.7% (again, depending on years). Hardly an immoral amount to take in.

Now if ya wanna talk profit villains, look at biotech companies, big pharma, and medical equipment. Oh, and beverages tops the list of industry profits. Dang evil Coca Cola.

Sack

eg8r
03-03-2010, 11:05 AM
qtip, hauling out some chick that is sharing her dead sister's teeth is fear mongering. They are trying to use that person as an example of common occurences rather than use that person as a far outlier. We get your pathetic message, fear mongering is ok if you are a Dem.

eg8r

eg8r
03-03-2010, 11:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get this clear. The Senate Bill is NOT the bill that the Dems were proposing. Its the bare bones of an effort to control the HC costs that are crippling the USA. Watered down to nothing by the GOP.</div></div>A statement like that is ignorance at its best.

eg8r

sack316
03-03-2010, 12:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NO. That's what's happing now.
The Senate Bill that you have now was forged by the GOP. Its a GOP plan not a Dem plan! That's why its so crap.

Q

</div></div>

Just saw this comment. So all along for the last year the problem is that the GOP has no ideas, has no solutions, has no plans for healthcare... other than to just say "no".

Now the bill is as big of a hunk of junk as it has ever been during the process... and suddenly it's because it was "forged by the GOP".

Which one is it? Do they have no ideas, or did they forge this bill? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-03-2010, 05:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NO. That's what's happing now.
The Senate Bill that you have now was forged by the GOP. Its a GOP plan not a Dem plan! That's why its so crap.

Q

</div></div>

Just saw this comment. So all along for the last year the problem is that the GOP has no ideas, has no solutions, has no plans for healthcare... other than to just say "no".

<span style="color: #000066">Well now, that's the most accurate sentence I think you've ever written! </span>

Now the bill is as big of a hunk of junk as it has ever been during the process... and suddenly it's because it was "forged by the GOP".

<span style="color: #000066">No, not suddenly, all along. </span>

Which one is it? Do they have no ideas, or did they forge this bill? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sack </div></div>

The Repubs vote against everything that could save medicare and SS from going bankrupt, and allow Americans to feel safe that if they get ill, they won't end up losing everything.

The Congressional Budget Office has a website. I've already posted it here once. This bill would end being dropped. End not being able to get insurance over some accusation that you, or your baby had a preexisting condition. End insurance companies driving up their premiums as much as 37 percent overnight!

They voted against our country being able to negotiate drug costs. Against allowing the Veterans Administration to negotiate drug prices, against food for hungry children, decent equipment for our soldiers and against additional financial aid for them when they come home.

The biggest problem with the right is that they frame everything and experience everything as though their money is going to be used to take care of lazy people who don't work. That's probably the biggest lie they tell. Those who are losing everything when they become ill are working Americans, who are dumped by their insurance companies after paying for coverage.

They whine about deals behind closed doors, when they all work deals behind closed doors,what do you think the Iraq invasion was, anyway. Cheney cut the deals with the oil companies before we ever invaded, blocking off the refineries between all of them, and then going all the way to the Supreme Court, to keep anyone from finding out about it.


Republicans are nothing but tools for the corporations, always have been, always will be. The right should start to open up their eyes and realize that this is NOT a free market, it is socialism for the wealthy.

Just read the Government charts, and it is more than clear. Republicans in, rich get richer, middle class pays for all of it, including the luxuries of the wealthy.

Republicans voted against stif regulations on the same pigs who bilked the whole country almost into a depression.

It won't matter what's in the bill, Republicans are going to block it because they always block everything unless it is for their wealthy corporate pigs.

They knewwhat was going to happen to Medicare, Medicaid, and jobs while subsidizing the very corporations who sent our manufacturing jobs off to the slaves all over the world! They knew we had to address health costs, prescription costs, etc. They do not care how Americans have to live. They had twelve years, did you ever hear of them doing a single damn thing for the average grunts in this country????

Hell NO!

pooltchr
03-03-2010, 06:15 PM
Sack, I think the left has finally gone off the deep end. They spend a year fighting among themselves trying to draft a bill that most people recognize as being garbage, are willing to sacrafice their political careers to get it passed in the face of public opposition, with no support from the Reps, and then want to blame the Reps for the whole thing!

They must all be Nucking Futs!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

wolfdancer
03-03-2010, 06:26 PM
Yes !!!

sack316
03-03-2010, 11:42 PM
the repubs vote in Washington was worth as much as your or my say up until a few weeks ago.

Did they say "no no no" to nearly everything? Yep, they did. Did it really matter? No, because anything that the dems wanted to pass or do, they could do without any republican support anyway.

The left seems to want to say that republicans somehow succeeded in some sort of sabotage... when the reality is that democrats failed to unite to get anything done when they could have.

Truth be told, I'd say with 99.9% certainty that a republican super majority wouldn't have accomplished much either. For example, I like the idea of selling insurance across state lines. An issue republicans have been pounding home over these months. But fact is, they had plenty of time to do that over many years as well (it's not as if this 'crisis' is a new thing that just came about). They didn't.

If you ask me (which I know you didn't) I say Washington is failing us period. Not just in this issue, but many. And has been for quite some time. They've made running our country a competition, a game of sorts. A tapestry of talking points and divisiveness. And at this rate, from election to election, no matter what side wins in Washington... the country seems to lose. JMHO.

Sack

Qtec
03-04-2010, 05:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">qtip, hauling out <u>some chick that is sharing her dead sister's teeth is fear mongering.</u> </div></div>

I feel your empathy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <u>They are trying to use that person as an example of <span style='font-size: 20pt'>common occurences </span>rather than use that person as a far outlier.</u></div></div>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Eh????????
Where did you get that from this statement?</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“I even have <span style='font-size: 20pt'>one constituent</span> — you will not believe this, and I know you won’t, but it’s true — her sister died. This poor woman had no denture. She wore her dead sister’s teeth, which of course were uncomfortable and did not fit. Do you ever believe that in America that that’s where we would be?”</div></div>
Are you really so dumb that you can't comprehend what you read?
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Read it again.</span>



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2010/02/conservatives-mock-slaughters.html#ixzz0hCk8S6XB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> We get your pathetic message, fear mongering is ok if you are a Dem.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'> Its not fear mongering. Did she say that everyone would be wearing second hand dentures in the future if this bill doesn't pass?</span>


Again,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mentioning facts is not fear mongering.
Fear mongering involves predicting something bad is going to happen.....which reflects exactly the tone of every statement uttered by the opposition since Obama became Pres Elect. </div></div>

Its not a pathetic message, its a pathetic FACT.

Lets face it, you don't give a $hit what is happening to the less fortunate in America.
Q

Qtec
03-04-2010, 05:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What Republican ideas are in the bill, and when were they involved in crafting the bill?

Steve </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Shares of U.S. health insurers rose broadly on Tuesday on hopes a health reform bill would not include a government-run option,</span> which has drawn strong opposition from insurers who fear it would destroy the private marketplace.

The S&P Managed Health Care index of large U.S. health insurers closed 6.5 percent higher.

Aetna rose 12.6 percent, Coventry was up 12.7 percent and Cigna was 7.7 percent higher, all on the New York Stock Exchange. Centene rose 7.9 percent.</div></div>

Without the Public Option its the same ol same ol.nothing will really change. They have a monopoly and they are keeping it. Despite the fact that it has been proven time and time again that they have denied, defrauded and let people die because they want to save some money they are still in control.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Center for Public Integrity :

A Center for Public Integrity analysis of Senate lobbying disclosure forms shows that more than 1,750 companies and organizations hired about 4,525 lobbyists -- <span style='font-size: 20pt'>eight for each member of Congress -- to influence health reform bills in 2009.</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> MLR Medical Loss Ratio (Collection: Managed Care)

The amount of revenues from health insurance premiums that is spent to pay for the medical services covered by the plan. Usually referred to by a ratio, such as 0.96--which means that 96% of premiums were spent on purchasing medical services. The goal is to keep this ratio below 1.00--preferably in the 0.80 range, since the MCO's or insurance company's profit comes from premiums. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Currently, successful HMOs do have MLRs in the 0.70-0.80 range.</span> </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">before most of the insurance companies were publicly traded, they spent <u>95% of premium dollars on health care.</u> That level is comparable to Medicare, which spends <u>97% of premium dollars on care.</u> But once these companies went public and started trading on Wall Street, the relentless drive for profit drove down that percentage to where it sits today, <u>at 81%.</u>

Wall Street pressures directly caused insurance companies to deny more care. Wall Street accelerated the process by which insurance companies deny as much care as they can, which forces more people into bankruptcy (when they have to pay out of pocket for care their insurance company won't cover) and leaves millions uninsured (if you're bankrupt, it's hard to pay premiums). And being uninsured can be a death sentence.

The way Wall Street responds to the health care debate drives these companies. <u>When insurance company stock prices catch fire as the public health insurance option is killed in the Senate, you can bet that these companies are watching and feel supported in their effort to kill any and all health reform that would hurt their bottom line.</u> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):

76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
80.6% - WellPoint
http://www.ama-assn.org/... </div></div>


Businesses are about making a profit, HC Insurance Companies should be about <u>giving health care and not denying it</u>.


Q

LWW
03-04-2010, 06:04 AM
Your lack of understanding is astounding.

LWW

pooltchr
03-04-2010, 07:11 AM
Q. The public option was one of the issues that divided Democrats. But you still avoided the question.
Which Republicans were involved in crafting the legislation, and when were they involved, and what did they put into the bill? I've been told that the Republicans didn't have any ideas on the subject.
Which is it? Did the Republicans have something to add to the legislation, or did they have nothing to offer which resulted in the Dems writing the bill.
The fact is, the Dems know they wrote a bad bill, and now are trying to blame it on the Reps, whom they locked out of all the discussions to design the bill in the first place.
Reps have distanced themselves from this piece of crap legislation from the beginning, and now it all their fault?????

Insanity at it's finest!!

Steve

Qtec
03-04-2010, 07:50 AM
Call me crazy.

I thought that a Senator was in DC to represent the interests of those who voted for them.

If this was a Dem socialist Govt takeover then why this?

stocks soar (http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2009/09/health-insurance-stocks-soar-with-releasse-of-baucus-bill.html)



Q

pooltchr
03-04-2010, 09:40 AM
You still didn't answer the question. Which Republicans were involved, when were they involved, and which parts of the bill did they author????
Or did they actually not have any ideas, as we have been told for the last year????????????

Steve

Gayle in MD
03-04-2010, 02:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the repubs vote in Washington was worth as much as your or my say up until a few weeks ago.

Did they say "no no no" to nearly everything? Yep, they did. Did it really matter? No, because anything that the dems wanted to pass or do, they could do without any republican support anyway.

The left seems to want to say that republicans somehow succeeded in some sort of sabotage... when the reality is that democrats failed to unite to get anything done when they could have.

Truth be told, I'd say with 99.9% certainty that a republican super majority wouldn't have accomplished much either. For example, I like the idea of selling insurance across state lines. An issue republicans have been pounding home over these months. But fact is, they had plenty of time to do that over many years as well (it's not as if this 'crisis' is a new thing that just came about). They didn't.

If you ask me (which I know you didn't) I say Washington is failing us period. Not just in this issue, but many. And has been for quite some time. They've made running our country a competition, a game of sorts. A tapestry of talking points and divisiveness. And at this rate, from election to election, no matter what side wins in Washington... the country seems to lose. JMHO.

Sack </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">First of all, the Congressional Budget Office is a non partisan entity.

Secondly, the Health Care costs, and HC insurance costs, are destroying us. They MUST be addressed, and solutions put into action. The CBO says that this bill, however Democratics mistakenly flawed it by trying to be bi-partisan, with a bunch of obstructionists, it will still save money, provide more coverage, and eliminate the worst of the corporate abuses against Americans, by pharmaceuticals, and Insurance.

None of the Republican suggestions even come near to lowering the money saved, and people covered, that the original House Bill provided.

The underlying issue behind a lot of the obstructionists tactics used by the Republicans, is their corporate cronyism, same thing we saw regarding the lies that led to the Iraq fiasco for oil and corporate crony oil contracts in Iraq, which now we know Cheney outlined and carved up during the same time they were lying us into the war, behind closed doors, with the oil CEO's..

We are being bombarded with Republican lies, and the graphs and finding of the CBO prove it.

The vast majority of our deficit, is still Bush's deficit.

Republicans have blocked efforts to address this serious issue, for decades, and they are STILL doing that.

There is corruption on both sides, I've never denied that, but no party, or president, in our history, has ever hurt this country like the Bush Administration, and the last six of the twelve years that Republicans held a majority.

Unbridled deficit spending, the worst in history, government growth, unprecedented borrowing, and treasonist foreign policy.

The fact is, that without the TARP, and the efforts by President Obama which followed Bush's TARP, including for the automobile industry, we'd be at 25% unemployment right now. Not only Paulson, but every respected economist in this country, says so.

We MUST pass this bill, and improve on it as we go, even though it has been severely damaged, because Democratics didn't push it through from the start, using reconciliation, same way Bush did with both of his tax cuts, and medicare pharmaceutical bill, which combined created a huge additional burden, and increase to the deficit, which this bill does not do. This bill saves money, and covers more people.


G. </span>

pooltchr
03-04-2010, 03:39 PM
Keep telling yourself that when your healthcare premiums go up, and you are forced to pay them or be fined by the IRS.

Steve

Qtec
03-04-2010, 07:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Garrett ignores GOP influence in current health care legislation to say Obama will "start" incorporating GOP ideas

February 10, 2010 3:19 pm ET

SUMMARY: On Fox News' America's Newsroom, Major Garrett said President Obama indicated during a press conference he "will start talking to Republicans and incorporating their ideas in the health care debate." In fact, as Obama recently indicated during his January 29 question and answer session with House Republicans, several GOP ideas have been incorporated into the current health care bill.

From the February 10 edition of America's Newsroom:

GARRETT: The question I asked was about health care reform and whether or not the House and Senate bills that the president was once so proud of in fact could pass. He conceded the Republicans' point that they couldn't, and though he said he wouldn't start from scratch, he will start talking to Republicans and incorporating their ideas in the health care debate.

Obama at House GOP Q & A: "I have" accepted GOP ideas in bill

Obama: "[W]hen you say I ought to be willing to accept Republican ideas on health care, let's be clear: I have." During Obama's question-and-answer period of his House GOP retreat visit on January 29, Obama stated some of the GOP ideas on health care reform that are included in the current Senate bill, such as: "creating a high-risk pool for uninsured folks with preexisting conditions"; "Allowing insurance companies to sell coverage across state lines"; "creating pools where self-employed and small businesses could buy insurance"; "let[ting] kids remain covered on their parents' insurance until they're 25 or 26"; "incentivizing wellness"; and "creating an affordable catastrophic insurance option for young people":

This is a big problem, and all of us are called on to solve it. And that's why, from the start, I sought out and supported ideas from Republicans. I even talked about an issue that has been a holy grail for a lot of you, which was tort reform, and said that I'd be willing to work together as part of a comprehensive package to deal with it. I just didn't get a lot of nibbles.

Creating a high-risk pool for uninsured folks with preexisting conditions, that wasn't my idea, it was Senator McCain's. And I supported it, and it got incorporated into our approach. Allowing insurance companies to sell coverage across state lines to add choice and competition and bring down costs for businesses and consumers -- that's an idea that some of you I suspect included in this better solutions; that's an idea that was incorporated into our package. And I support it, provided that we do it hand in hand with broader reforms that protect benefits and protect patients and protect the American people.

A number of you have suggested creating pools where self-employed and small businesses could buy insurance. That was a good idea. I embraced it. Some of you supported efforts to provide insurance to children and let kids remain covered on their parents' insurance until they're 25 or 26. I supported that. That's part of our package. I supported a number of other ideas, from incentivizing wellness to creating an affordable catastrophic insurance option for young people that came from Republicans like Mike Enzi and Olympia Snowe in the Senate, and I'm sure from some of you as well. So when you say I ought to be willing to accept Republican ideas on health care, let's be clear: I have.

Ezra Klein: <span style='font-size: 17pt'>All four "planks" of GOP health care plan are in the Senate bill

Klein: "I don't think it's well understood how many of the GOP's central health-care policy ideas" are in Senate bill. In a February 8 blog post, Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein wrote that the "four planks" on health care laid out on the House Republican Conference's website are all included in the Senate bill,</span> specifically the website's call to "Let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines," "Allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do," "Give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs" and "End junk lawsuits." Klein also wrote that the excise tax included in the Senate bill "does virtually the same thing" as President Bush's 2007 proposal to cap the tax break for employer-sponsored insurance, and that the bill is "a private-market plan" that does not include the public option.
Previous Senate bills included numerous GOP amendments, reflected bipartisan meetings

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Senate bills had numerous GOP amendments and reflected bipartisan meetings. According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, <u>the final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators [Mike] Enzi [R-WY], [Tom] Coburn [R-OK], [Pat] Roberts [R-KS] and others [that] make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 [HELP Committee document, 7/09]. And according to the Senate Finance Committee's document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill.</u></span>
</div></div>

Q

Qtec
03-04-2010, 08:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q. The public option was one of the issues that divided Democrats. </div></div>



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Democrats who voted against public option got $19 million from healthcare firms

By Muriel Kane
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009 -- 12:38 pm


Healthcare Democrats who voted against public option got $19 million from healthcare firms Five Democratic members of the Senate Finance Committee who voted on Tuesday to shoot down a proposed public option for the health care reform bill -- a measure which <u>polls show is favored by 81% of Democrats</u> -- are coming under close scrutiny for their ties to the health care industry.

According to Intershame.com -- a site which aims to draw attention to misbehavior -- those five senators have collectively been the recipients of over $19 million in donations from health care, pharmaceutical, and health insurance companies over the course of their Congressional careers.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) alone accounts for nearly $8 million of the total. In addition, five of his former staff members -- including two former chiefs of staff -- are now lobbyists representing organizations with a strong interest in the health care bill.
</span>
Joan Walsh of Salon took Baucus to task for his vote, writing, <u>"So let's get this straight: Baucus admits the public option would 'hold insurance companies' feet to the fire,' but he voted against it? Is there any clearer evidence that Baucus is in the pocket of the health insurance industry?"</u>

Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) comes in second on the Intershame list, with about $4 million in health industry donations, and Kent Conrad (D-ND) is third at around $3 million. Like Baucus, both Lincoln and Conrad have former chiefs of staff who are now health industry lobbyists. </div></div>

With the GOP voting No to everything, even their own proposals [ see below] the HC industry just has to buy a few Dems to get what they want.




Q

The No Party.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">McConnell Makes Excuses for Republicans Voting Against Proposal <u>They Co-Sponsored</u>
</div></div> link (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/mcconnell-makes-excuses-republicans-voting)

sack316
03-05-2010, 07:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> because Democratics didn't push it through from the start, using reconciliation....</div></div>

IIRC, they wouldn't have even had to use reconciliation for what? Like the first ten months of the year? They didn't get it done. They couldn't come to agreement amongst themselves... much less be concerned with bipartisanship. If they had gotten their own ducks in a row, I guarantee they wouldn't have cared about a word of what republicans had to say. But since they couldn't all come together in agreement, they tried to sway a few republicans to hit the magic number on votes... and called it an attempt at bipartisanship. Finally, in a last ditch effort bought some votes... which thankfully has now been done away with.

They'll do anything to pass it. And to be perfectly frank, I'd rather the original idea/bill be up there and going through than what we've got now... public option and the whole kit and kaboodle. If we're gonna get deep into it anyway, may as well do it all the way I say.

Sack

pooltchr
03-05-2010, 08:21 AM
Q, we STILL don't know what is in the bill, or what is going to be in the bill. The plan right now is for the house to pass the Senate bill, and then pass another bill to "fix" the senate bill. So what are the "fixes", and why didn't they just do it right the first time???????????

Steve

Gayle in MD
03-05-2010, 09:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> because Democratics didn't push it through from the start, using reconciliation....</div></div>

IIRC, they wouldn't have even had to use reconciliation for what? Like the first ten months of the year? They didn't get it done. They couldn't come to agreement amongst themselves... much less be concerned with bipartisanship. If they had gotten their own ducks in a row, I guarantee they wouldn't have cared about a word of what republicans had to say. But since they couldn't all come together in agreement, they tried to sway a few republicans to hit the magic number on votes... and called it an attempt at bipartisanship. Finally, in a last ditch effort bought some votes... which thankfully has now been done away with.

They'll do anything to pass it. And to be perfectly frank, I'd rather the original idea/bill be up there and going through than what we've got now... public option and the whole kit and kaboodle. If we're gonna get deep into it anyway, may as well do it all the way I say.

Sack </div></div>

Sack,
I think I already stated that Democratics should have gone straight to reconciliation from the gitgo, jammed the bill through, WITH the public option, restoring the original anti-trust legislation on the insurance industry, opened the federal plan to all Americans, included laws to prevent them from dropping policy holders when they become ill, included laws to end denial on the grounds of pre-existing conditions.

The differences between us is that you think legislation is easy to pass just because one party has a majority. That is not true, as I have stated, there are crooks on both sides that are just out to line their own pockets, and it is simple as pie to research who they are. Twelve of them are Democratics, no question, and the grass roots Democratics are working furiously, believe me, to support strong Democratic contenders to get rid of those twelve. There is no question, either, that far more of them are Republicans, hence, they vote no in a block, in spite of all of the people in this country who are literally dying and/or losing everything, because they became ill, and their insurance dropped them.

What is so frustrating to me, as an observer of Washtington D,C,. is the hypocracy of the right.

I watched committee meeting after committee meeting, with Republicans on all of the committees, BI-PARTISAN COMMITTEES! NO matter how much they were given, they still voted no.

They've been invited to talks with the president, which we all watched. Regardless of the common sense FACTS, which he laid out, they continued with their lies, and/or refused any opportunity for negotiations, over and over again.

STatistics on this subject do not single out the whys and wherefores involved in the opinions, but when you take apart the policies which the responders vote either yeh or nay, you find that most of the people are FOR the Democratic policies, many of them angry because there is no public option.

In years past, there were enough statesmen on both sides to pass legislation with some bi-partisanship. Those days are gone. Back then, no party had it's own propaganda cable news source, to scare the public, and spread misinformation 24 hours a day, for one thing. Do you really think that Republicans, touting the lie over and over that the public is against this bill, are worried that the Democratics will get a backlash if this bill is jammed through?

C'on! They twist the polls around to suit their rhetoric. The American public wants health care reform. Reasonable people understand that. They also want a public option. They want to tighten the restrictions on insurance, pharmaceuticals, credit card industry, Financial and banking industry, Food and Drug industry. None of these corrupt industries have coducted themselves decently, they have hurt all of us.

What I can't understand is how any people in this country, regardless of party, can think that they are safe from exactly what happened to 62 % of the people who lost their homes, because of Health Care costs, insurance costs, pharmaceutical costs.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THAT THREAT UNLESS THEY ARE A MULTI-BILLION AIRE, AND yet all the REpublicans blabber about is tort reform! What a crock, less than 3% of the cause of rising prices among those industries!

My Medical Ongologist charges four hundred dollars per office visit! She does not perform surgery! She is in no way under the
risk of being sued! The only thing she does is read the science, and determine the treatment. That ALL! how can she be sued? If the drug is wrong, or one gets a bad drug, She isn't the one who gets sued, the scientists who formulate the treatment are not under scrutiny if someone dies from an alergic reaction.

Doctors, Insurance, Hospitals, they're all bilking all of us. Prices are totally absurd, and all they want is to be exempt from any recourse if they're incompetent????!!!!

Please, tell me the fairness in that request! It's like they're saying, we want to bilk you dry, and if we're wrong, then we want to get away with that TOO!

Voting no in a block, as a party, in the midst of our crumbling economy, crumbling infrastructure, crumbling financial and industrial power in the world, crumbling educational system degraded for the last eight years, partly because it was underfunded, and partly from federal interference straight from Bush's NCLB, which he pushed through, after scaming Ted Kennedy into believing that he would keep his word to finance it, then defunded it!....

These Party of NO SOB's were responsible for every single thing that we are facing, and they have the BALLS, to just say no??

Give me a break!

What colossal NERVE!

G.

Gayle in MD
03-05-2010, 09:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q. The public option was one of the issues that divided Democrats. </div></div>



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Democrats who voted against public option got $19 million from healthcare firms

By Muriel Kane
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009 -- 12:38 pm


Healthcare Democrats who voted against public option got $19 million from healthcare firms Five Democratic members of the Senate Finance Committee who voted on Tuesday to shoot down a proposed public option for the health care reform bill -- a measure which <u>polls show is favored by 81% of Democrats</u> -- are coming under close scrutiny for their ties to the health care industry.

According to Intershame.com -- a site which aims to draw attention to misbehavior -- those five senators have collectively been the recipients of over $19 million in donations from health care, pharmaceutical, and health insurance companies over the course of their Congressional careers.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) alone accounts for nearly $8 million of the total. In addition, five of his former staff members -- including two former chiefs of staff -- are now lobbyists representing organizations with a strong interest in the health care bill.
</span>
Joan Walsh of Salon took Baucus to task for his vote, writing, <u>"So let's get this straight: Baucus admits the public option would 'hold insurance companies' feet to the fire,' but he voted against it? Is there any clearer evidence that Baucus is in the pocket of the health insurance industry?"</u>

Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) comes in second on the Intershame list, with about $4 million in health industry donations, and Kent Conrad (D-ND) is third at around $3 million. Like Baucus, both Lincoln and Conrad have former chiefs of staff who are now health industry lobbyists. </div></div>

With the GOP voting No to everything, even their own proposals [ see below] the HC industry just has to buy a few Dems to get what they want.




Q

The No Party.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">McConnell Makes Excuses for Republicans Voting Against Proposal <u>They Co-Sponsored</u>
</div></div> link (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/mcconnell-makes-excuses-republicans-voting) </div></div>

Wait until you see that sleezy bi*ch's campaign announcement, which basically says.....

"Vote for me, I stopped every single thing that could have helped this country survive the threatening depression, recover from Bush's Recession, or help Middle Class Americans!"

What a sleezebag!

I call that office every single day! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

pooltchr
03-05-2010, 10:38 AM
[quote=Gayle in MDI think I already stated that Democratics should have gone straight to reconciliation from the gitgo, jammed the bill through,

The differences between us is that [/quote]

You just admitted that you think it is correct to impose your will on others, as you just admitted.

Nuff said!

Steve

eg8r
03-05-2010, 02:36 PM
It is fear mongering and since people like you think it is effective you give the lefty fear mongerers a pass.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-05-2010, 03:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is fear mongering and since people like you think it is effective you give the lefty fear mongerers a pass.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">So where does the fear mongering come in, Ed. Do you ever answer any questions? Fear mongering included lies, so what do you think the representatives who are tring to pass this reform, are lying about.

I asked you before, are you of the opinion that YOU and YOUR family are exempt from becoming ill, and being dropped? What if you lose your job, and have to go out and get your health care from somewhere other then the Department of defense, through defense contracts, how do you think you would get health care, if someone in YOUR family became ill with a life threstening disease?

You righties act as though you're invincable. Believe me, you're NOT!

G.</span>

eg8r
03-05-2010, 03:08 PM
Hauling out a woman who is using her dead sister's teeth as an example of what is happening out there is fear mongering for sure. Explain to me, what would be the purpose of going after extremes like that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if you lose your job, and have to go out and get your health care from somewhere other then the Department of defense, through defense contracts, how do you think you would get health care, if someone in YOUR family became ill with a life threstening disease?
</div></div>I don't know, but one thing is for sure I will be working my butt off with as many jobs as needed to make sure our necessities are covered. If one gets sick and we did not have insurance I would be pushing the illegal immigrants out of the way as fast as possible until I got to the front of the line at the emergency room.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-05-2010, 03:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hauling out a woman who is using her dead sister's teeth as an example of what is happening out there is fear mongering for sure. Explain to me, what would be the purpose of going after extremes like that?

<span style="color: #000066">Ed, the story is true. I don't think you understand how bad off many of our senior really are.

</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if you lose your job, and have to go out and get your health care from somewhere other then the Department of defense, through defense contracts, how do you think you would get health care, if someone in YOUR family became ill with a life threstening disease?
</div></div>I don't know,

<span style="color: #000066">No, you don't know, and neither does anyone else on here. None of you folks are exempt from being dropped. Things change, and no one is assured a job, nor the ability to keep up with the ridiculously rqapid rise in health care and insurance costs. </span>



but one thing is for sure I will be working my butt off with as many jobs as needed to make sure our necessities are covered.

<span style="color: #000066">See, there you go, assumming that those who have been dropped, just didn't work hard enough.

Let me tell you a story.

I have a neighbor who is a multi-millionaire. He has lost EVERYTHING in the last year, EVERYTHING. He has worked his A** off his entire life, and he, too, thought he was exempt from worry over health care costs, and/or insurance costs.

His wife, two grown daughters, and one grandchild, were in a horrible accident. It wasn't their fault, either, hit by a huge tractor trailer truck.

He was very well to do, owned commercial property, vacation property. Plenty of sound investments. Held what debts he had for tax purposes only, with plenty laid back to pay off and tax shelters, and retire in Hawaii, which he planned to do in three years.

Now, he is living in a rented house and has lost EVERYTHING. Both his wife, and one daughter, are STILL in the hospital. One on life support, and the other a invalid for the rest of her life. I don't even want to tell you about the grand child, but believe me, Ed, you are no more determined to take care of your family in case of a medical disaster, than he was.

Here's a guy who had everything. In one second, it was gone, all of it.

No one is exempt from the unconscionable tactics for profits that this health care for profit, crisis includes. NO ONE.

</span>
If one gets sick and we did not have insurance I would be pushing the illegal immigrants out of the way as fast as possible until I got to the front of the line at the emergency room.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">And every muscled up mexican, Hatian, Cuban with families of their own, would be thumping your head.

That's not much of a plan, Ed. You'd end up with another hospital bill.

G.</span>

eg8r
03-05-2010, 03:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ed, the story is true. I don't think you understand how bad off many of our senior really are.</div></div>I did not say any differently, I said it was fear mongering.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, you don't know, and neither does anyone else on here. </div></div>Then why do you act like you do?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">See, there you go, assumming that those who have been dropped, just didn't work hard enough.</div></div>I did not assume anything so quit twisting what I said. You asked what I would do and I told you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And every muscled up mexican, Hatian, Cuban with families of their own, would be thumping your head. </div></div>LOL, like you would even have a clue.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-05-2010, 03:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ed, the story is true. I don't think you understand how bad off many of our senior really are.</div></div>I did not say any differently, I said it was fear mongering.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, you don't know, and neither does anyone else on here. </div></div>Then why do you act like you do?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">See, there you go, assumming that those who have been dropped, just didn't work hard enough.</div></div>I did not assume anything so quit twisting what I said. You asked what I would do and I told you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And every muscled up mexican, Hatian, Cuban with families of their own, would be thumping your head. </div></div>LOL, like you would even have a clue.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">LOL, another tantrum, but no response.

You are just as much at risk for financial disaster, as any of those horrible stories you hear about, believe me. Telling the turht about how peole are being affected by this ridiculous, Health care for profit situation we have here, is not fear mongering. It is about a representative, who is show the public how damaging our current system is to any American who happens to be compromised, either through losing out because they became ill, or through someone in their family, becoming ill, or because they had a horrible accident, believe me, you, nor your family is invincible. You are just as much at risk of losing everything, as anyone else in this country.

G. </span>

eg8r
03-07-2010, 06:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are just as much at risk for financial disaster, as any of those horrible stories you hear about, believe me.</div></div>I never said any differently.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Telling the turht about how peole are being affected by this ridiculous, Health care for profit situation we have here, is not fear mongering.</div></div>Bringing out shared tooth lady is fear mongering. The Dems have been hauling out these onesy twosy examples for quite some time now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is about a representative, who is show the public how damaging our current system is to any American who happens to be compromised, either through losing out because they became ill, or through someone in their family, becoming ill, or because they had a horrible accident, believe me, you, nor your family is invincible. </div></div>There is no problem with that except they are choosing the absolute most extreme examples in an attempt to scare people into thinking we need this pork-laden-no-good-for-America garbage bill. On top of that the bill they are putting together still will not cover everyone leaving that poor woman having to pass the teeth down to the next person in line.

eg8r

pooltchr
03-07-2010, 08:01 AM
Ed,
For every "tooth sharing" example they can find, I would imagine there are dozens who have absolutely no such issues.

Imagine if every person of means in this country passed up just one little overseas vacation, or cruise in their boat, and used that money to adopt a homeless dumpster diver instead! We wouldn't need any government intervention.

The liberals, as always, can be so charitable with other people's money!!!!

Come 2013, when they see just how much they are paying for their own healthcare, I would hope they would realize just how bad this plan is. Of course, by then, Obama will be gone, and the damage will have been done.

Steve

LWW
03-07-2010, 08:58 AM
True datt.

LWW

Gayle in MD
03-07-2010, 09:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are just as much at risk for financial disaster, as any of those horrible stories you hear about, believe me.</div></div>I never said any differently.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Telling the turht about how peole are being affected by this ridiculous, Health care for profit situation we have here, is not fear mongering.</div></div>Bringing out shared tooth lady is fear mongering. The Dems have been hauling out these onesy twosy examples for quite some time now.

<span style="color: #000066">Then we have very different opinions about the definition of fear mongering. That lady, is not a far out example of what many seniors in this country are facing at this time. To me, fear mongering ivolves creating fake information, and using it to control public opinion. The publilc already knows by a very wide margin, that we cannot sustain the current system, and thrive as a nation. The health Insurance Industry, as as bad as the predatory lenders, worse, actually, because they are adding to the horrors of those among us who are ill. Nothing wrong with trying to wake up the public about a real threat, a true and present danger to our country. That, in my world, is not fear mongering. Spend a little time in any oncology waiting room, anywhere in this country, Ed, and you will understand the bredth and depth of this threat to the American economy. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is about a representative, who is show the public how damaging our current system is to any American who happens to be compromised, either through losing out because they became ill, or through someone in their family, becoming ill, or because they had a horrible accident, believe me, you, nor your family is invincible. </div></div>There is no problem with that except they are choosing the absolute most extreme examples in an attempt to scare people into thinking we need this pork-laden-no-good-for-America garbage bill.

<span style="color: #000066">Extremes? How do you know that? Didn't you read the percentages of the mortgage defaults which were a direct result of people losing everything because they became ill. There were people who had worked all of their lives, just like you, and lost everything because they became ill. They are no different than you, and you are just as much at risk. I have not seen the eventual bill, as it is still being worked on, but I know it is a start, and know as well, that no bill sruvives into eternity, without being tweaked for improvement. We MUST BEGIN! NOW. </span>

On top of that the bill they are putting together still will not cover everyone leaving that poor woman having to pass the teeth down to the next person in line.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">You must crawl before you can walk, and you must walk, before you can run. It's a start. Better than doing nothing until the country goes bankrupt. Health costs, insurance, and energy, are sucking the life right out of the finances of Middle Class Americans. We have to begin to face that, and if the people who are aware of the threat do not make an impact on average Americans, enough to get them to wake up to the threat, we're in big trouble.


Fear mongering, to me, is when the overall threat is exaggerated or does not even exist, and lies are told to foment a hidden agenda, not when examples are used to give examples of how those already suffereng from the actual threat, are having to deal with it.
G.</span>

eg8r
03-08-2010, 01:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then we have very different opinions about the definition of fear mongering.</div></div>No I don't think our opinions are different, I just don't limit my definition to one party's actions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Extremes? How do you know that? </div></div>How many women do you come across at the marina that are sharing their dead sister's teeth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You must crawl before you can walk, and you must walk, before you can run.</div></div>Well I wish the Dems would take this common sense approach with Healthcare reform. Throw away the 2500 page bill and "Louisiana Purchase" backdoor deals and give us something that will really do some good. Give us something that has actually been READ by those that will be voting. Is that too hard to ask?

How about along those lines give the American public the proper amount of time to read the bill as promised by Obama. Since I am on a roll, if you are going to increase the national debt by an additional $8.5 trillion dollars like the Dems want to why not show us where you are going to get that money from (i.e. other government programs, Pay Go).

Sure I know you are going to say that W went against plenty of things that he promised. Fine. So I guess where we are at is whether you want those types of actions to continue or if you are going to ask your elected politicians to start doing what they say they will do. I am not asking for anything extraordinary here, but if you pass a bill, that says you will not raise any new debt that is not paid for by reducing federal spending somewhere else, then honor it.

eg8r

Qtec
03-11-2010, 06:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If one gets sick and we did not have insurance I would be pushing the illegal immigrants out of the way as fast as possible until I got to the front of the line at the emergency room.

eg8r </div></div>

You are absolutely clueless.

Q

eg8r
03-11-2010, 08:19 PM
This coming from the idiot across the pond that has not spend a single day in our emergency room.

qtip the village idiot, on the prowl.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-12-2010, 02:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This coming from the idiot across the pond that has not spend a single day in our emergency room.

qtip the village idiot, on the prowl.

eg8r </div></div>

That's really uncalled for, Ed.

G.

pooltchr
03-12-2010, 08:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[this ridiculous, Health care for profit situation we have here, </div></div>

When in our history has healthcare ever been anything other than a "for profit" industry? And why are you so against profits? Your entire lifestyle is the result of profits of some sort. In fact, without profit, we would be just another 3rd world country. Profit is the driving force for our entire economy. If you take away profit, you take away any motivation to produce goods or services.

How many doctors do you think would spend 8 years in medical school without the reasonable expectation of getting a monitary return on their investment?

How many insurance companies would have been started or exist today if they were not able to make a profit?

How many home builders would we have if the builders were not allowed to make a profit? Boat builders?

Steve

sack316
03-12-2010, 08:26 AM
Little known or mentioned thing about the US. Health insurance as we know it wasn't even created as a way of protecting consumers from unforeseen medical expenses... it was designed to keep hospitals in business and guarantee them regular income. Look up the school teacher contract with Baylor University Hospital in Dallas from 1929, and there we see the creation of our system.

Sack

eg8r
03-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Maybe so, but it was well earned.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-13-2010, 06:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe so, but it was well earned.

eg8r </div></div>

Fraud is nothing to be applauded, Ed. That's how we got into this mess, people admiring CEO's for their dirty work.

The oil industry, and China, will bury our country if we do not start taking a stand against the corporate theft that is going on in this country. They are smothering out the entire bottom 4/5 of the country.

Record breaking profits in the oil industry, and when we start showing some reagar signs of relief in our economy, BANG, there go the oil prices, back up, and you can bet they will continue back up through the summer.

OPEC and China will burry us. Bush allowed them to bury us for eight years.

You praise medical costs and profits, insurance costs and profits, energy costs and profits, and never take into consideration how much subsidies they are getting from the taxpayers, WHILE they are gouging the hell out of all of us.

Wake up! China has been chearing us for over a decade!

If we hiked up their export tax, we could pay off what we owe them in no time.

Our retail sales go up, and China banks the money.

The Chinese are hoping that the right wing in this country continues to make fun of global warming, when clean renewable energy is a must, global warming, or not! There is nothing that China, OPEC, or al Qaeda would love better than to see another Republican in the White House.

There is nothing that has damaged the Middle Class, more than the idiots who tout Free Market praise, without enough sense to realize that included in their idol, is unlimited fraud, greed, exploitation, and irresponsibility.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

That's not what I call a free marketplace.

G.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Gayle, you were telling me that the words I chose to use in response to qtip were uncalled for. I agreed but said he has derserved it. Then you go back to ranting. Some things never change, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif


eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 11:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, you were telling me that the words I chose to use in response to qtip were uncalled for. I agreed but said he has derserved it. Then you go back to ranting. Some things never change, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif


eg8r </div></div>

Ed,
My post wasn't a rant. I was writing about my views and opinions, and without any personal attacks on anyone.

I do think your use of the name "QTip" is disrespectful, and argumentative. You do it all the time. Do you think that's necessary?

Q adds a lot of good information, with links, to this site, IMO. He doesn't just jump into every thread and try to use it to glorify himself, like some others here, without adding links, and information of substance.

G.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 12:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q adds a lot of good information, with links, to this site, IMO. He doesn't just jump into every thread and try to use it to glorify himself, like some others here, without adding links, and information of substance.
</div></div>LOL, funny you mention him "not" leaving out links. I just noticed a post where you forgot to jump on him for this.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 01:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q adds a lot of good information, with links, to this site, IMO. He doesn't just jump into every thread and try to use it to glorify himself, like some others here, without adding links, and information of substance.
</div></div>LOL, funny you mention him "not" leaving out links. I just noticed a post where you forgot to jump on him for this.

eg8r </div></div>

The information included identification of where it came from...you didn't read what he wrote, did you?

g.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 04:11 PM
LOL, whatever. Give whomever you want a pass, we see your triviality for what it is.

eg8r

Qtec
03-16-2010, 02:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This coming from the idiot across the pond that has not spend a single day in our emergency room.
</div></div>

Have you ever been on the moon?
No?
So I guess you know nothing about it then.

You are the one who thinks you can just barge your way to the front of the line in the ER [ past all the illegals! ]. Idiot.


Q

The problem.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"A decent number of folks who come to the hospital ought not to need to come here," says Jon Howard, 40, a nurse who also volunteers as a paramedic. "We have patients who have a known diagnosis of seizures who are out of seizure medication. Since he doesn't have insurance, he doesn't have a doctor, so he comes to the emergency department for routine prescriptions. <u>It's wildly inefficient</u>." </div></div>

wolfdancer
03-16-2010, 02:26 AM
Q, my sister is a nurse and works in the emergency room of a hospital....and has told me similar stories. It's a step up though from her last job, working in a mental hospital...(true story)
There have been stories in the past about the illegals who cross over at the border towns down south and seek non emergency medical help, in the emergency centers, and I imagine with the high cost of health ins, and affordable HC,that is happening everywhere.....oops, did I mention HC....hope that didn't offend....

Gayle in MD
03-16-2010, 12:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, whatever. Give whomever you want a pass, we see your triviality for what it is.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">You are unable to debate, without slurs and attacks.
You are unable to present any linked, researched, factual information.

Your "premises" are without any merit.

G. </span>

eg8r
03-16-2010, 06:17 PM
What part of my post was a slur or attack?

You want links for me but qtip does not have to provide them. Sounds like I am right about your triviality.

eg8r

eg8r
03-16-2010, 06:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever been on the moon?
No?
So I guess you know nothing about it then.</div></div>LOL, I guess then if I google it enough I could be considered an expert in your little mind, right?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-18-2010, 08:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What part of my post was a slur or attack?

<span style="color: #000066"> we see your triviality for what it is.

eg8r </span>

You want links for me but qtip does not have to provide them. Sounds like I am right about your triviality.

eg8r </div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">Q. posts factual information. You jump in and create illogical premises, deny facts, refuse to respond to those who blow away your presumptions, which make no sense whatsoever, and then insult the intellect, intentions, and values of all the people whose informative posts, you high-jack with your non stop, juvenile insults, and false presumptions...

In the end, you add nothing to the debate. Q., does, and most of the time he provided links, or there is information included in his quote, which is easy to locate.

The country, btw, voted for the current President's promises, and the right accuses him of not keeping his promises, while at the same time, pretends that he is taking away other people's rights, which he is not doing. He is, in fact, keeping his promises, and it was very clear, that Americans want Helth Care Reform, which is exactly what he is sworking to provide.

Supporting a president, when he is busy keeping the promises he made to the majority of voters, who put him in office, based on the issues he is currently working to solve, is not forcing anything, on anyone. Elections have consequences.

There is nothing wrong with the bill which was approved, that cannot be improved upon, as we go along.

Republicans did not provide any clear solutions for providing health care to more people, addressing the fraud and waste in the HC and HCI industries, and reducing the deficit by any measurable amount, so, no, in spite of Democratics including, certain aspects which they didn't really want, or not including other aspects which they did want, in order to get a bi-partisan vote, Republicans consistantly refused to work toward compromise, and said, NO NO NO! Start Over. Throw it out.

That isn't compromise, and that isn't providing clear, concise ideas to solve the problem, WITH the ways to pay for them included. This, THEY DID NOT DO!

No answer is necessary, since as with most other political issues, you are not informed on the subject.

Everytime you call Q, by your insulting name, you lose credibility, and prove your nasty nature, and the fact that you are not armed with enough facts, to be able to do anything other than prove that you lack enough facts, to be able to debate the subject.

The same tactics used by several other righties on thie site. Accusations and insults, based on undocumented opinions, and misinformation.

G. </span>

eg8r
03-19-2010, 11:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q. posts factual information. </div></div>I am not asking you whether or not you think he is posting factual info or if you even agree with his info. What I am referring to is your consistent "inconsistency" as to whom you request links from.

eg8r