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Qtec
03-12-2010, 06:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
March 12, 2010
Johann Hari: Palestinians should now declare their independence
Benjamin Netanyahu has responded to the US request with a big concrete slap

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Could the Israeli government make it any more obvious they have no intention of sharing the Over-Promised Land with its other inhabitants?</span>

This week the Obama administration - who give Israel $3bn a year, more than they dole out to any other nation on earth - made a meek and craven request for Israelis to simply have a pause in seizing even more land, and to sit down with the Palestinians. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded with a big concrete slap: the announcement of 1,600 more homes to be built on occupied Palestinian land from which Arabs will be forcibly kept out. He has made it plain he will not loosen his grip by an inch, announcing: "Even if [Palestinian President] Abu Mazen comes along and says he's ready to sign a peace deal on the spot, we will restore settlement construction to its previous levels." No compromise. Never.

How does this look to the Palestinians? Their story is so rarely explained without disinformation that it still seems startling when it is stated plainly. Until 1948, the Palestinians were living in their own homes, on their own land - until they were suddenly driven out in a war to make way for a new state for people fleeing a monstrous European genocide. They lived huddled and dazed in the 20 per cent of their land they were allowed to keep. They hardly fought back: they wept and dreamed of return. Then in the 1967 war, even these small strips were conquered with tanks and platoons.

Day by day since then, the remaining Palestinian land has been taken and given to fundamentalist settlers who claim it was given to them by God. They watched while Israeli Prime Ministers said they didn't exist - "there are no Palestinians", announced Golda Meir - or described them as animals: Menachem Begin called them "beasts walking on two legs", while Yitzhak Shamir said they should be "crushed like grasshoppers... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." They tried peacefully resisting, launching a programme of sit-downs and civil disobedience. Yitzhak Rabin responded by ordering the occupying Israeli army to "break their bones." After decades of this treatment, they fought back with violence - some of it targeted horribly and unacceptably at Israeli civilians.

And so today - with the active support of the governments of the Western world - the Palestinians live in a permanent military headlock. They are split in two. The Gaza Strip is blockaded on all sides, its population of 1.5 million imprisoned in a cramped, collapsing concrete maze the size of the Isle of Wight. For nearly three years, the essentials of life have been slowly choked off, in a process one Israeli official described with a chuckle as "putting the Palestinians on a diet". The items blocked from coming in include pasta and children's exercise books. The UN has shown that 70 per cent of Gazans are living on less than $1 a day, and 60 per cent have no daily access to clean water. Every time I go there, I think it can't be worse, yet it is. They used to use cars. Now it's donkeys.

On the West Bank, the land-theft continues. To protect the settlers and their programme of taking Palestinian land, there is a huge military infrastructure, made up of check-points and random searches and settler-only roads. The Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Richard Ben Cramer offers one story he witnessed that typifies and distils life on the West Bank: "One school headmaster, a dignified elder man, who passed the same checkpoint on his way to school every morning, was made to undress - not once but often - and stand naked while his students passed by. </div></div>

Also.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Israel's decision to approve 1,600 new homes in an ultra-Orthodox East Jerusalem neighborhood is undermining Middle East peace talks, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

Earlier Tuesday, the Interior Ministry approved the building of 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo, with a ministry official saying the plan will expand the ultra-Orthodox East Jerusalem neighborhood to the east and to the south.

"I condemn the decision by the government of Israel to advance planning for new housing units in East Jerusalem," Biden said.


The American vice president added that the "substance and timing of the announcement, particularly with the launching of proximity talks, is precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now and runs counter to the constructive discussions that I've had here in Israel."</div></div>


The US, by funding Israel is ensuring the continuation of a system that inflicts suffering on millions of people every day...........God will be pleased.






Q..........

Deeman3
03-12-2010, 08:13 AM
I think they should have waited a week, then expanded the settlements. No need to show up Biden in this way. He was playing nice in his trip but I guess the Jews were sending a message as they often do.

I think Israel is just tired of having to deal with these terrorists and are preparing to get tough with Hamas as well as the others in the region.

LWW
03-12-2010, 08:36 AM
I think they are tired of Obama and his anti Israel polocy.

LWW

eg8r
03-12-2010, 01:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Israel is just tired of having to deal with these terrorists and are preparing to get tough with Hamas as well as the others in the region. </div></div>Israel knows and understands the terrorists very well. Better than Biden, Obama and our very own, qtip.

eg8r

hippiepool
03-12-2010, 01:25 PM
Why Larry ....I'm not sure I recall you ever being facetious .....! good one ....!

Gayle in MD
03-13-2010, 06:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they should have waited a week, then expanded the settlements. No need to show up Biden in this way. He was playing nice in his trip but I guess the Jews were sending a message as they often do.

I think Israel is just tired of having to deal with these terrorists and are preparing to get tough with Hamas as well as the others in the region. </div></div>

I'd say more often than not, it's the Israelis who are the aggressors. How can you just take a broad brush and paint an entire people as terrorists?

From Wall Street, to the Gaza strip, when will our country admit to the pain and suffering they cause others. And why do we call them allies, when they take our money, and thumb their noses at us, refusing to compromise for peace in the region.

Their stubborn refusals and aggressive activities, were originally the lynchpin of our problems with radical muslims.

Tell me, what does the United States get out of turning a blind eye to everything they do, regardless of how inhumane it is?

I'd really like to understand that.

G.

Qtec
03-14-2010, 06:23 AM
http://media.nowpublic.net/images//04/4/0442f7dfb7d69111860f7f0fec8246ca.jpg

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the use of the solid, waxy synthetic chemical -- also known by the military as WP or Willie Pete -- against civilians is prohibited under international law, there is evidence that Palestinian civilians have been subjected to the chemical weapon. </div></div>

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//75/b/75bb4ff355396b61f40b516525db6595.jpg

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Effects on people

White phosphorus can cause injuries and death in three ways: by burning deep into tissue, by being inhaled as a smoke, and by being ingested. Extensive exposure by burning and ingestion is fatal.
[edit] By burning
Injuries from white phosphorus.[48][49]

Incandescent particles of WP cast off by a WP weapon's initial explosion can produce extensive, deep second and third degree burns. One reason why this occurs is the tendency of the element to stick to the skin. Phosphorus burns carry a greater risk of mortality than other forms of burns due to the absorption of phosphorus into the body through the burned area, resulting in liver, heart and kidney damage, and in some cases multiple organ failure.[50] These weapons are particularly dangerous to exposed people because white phosphorus continues to burn unless deprived of oxygen or until it is completely consumed. In some cases, burns are limited to areas of exposed skin because the smaller WP particles do not burn completely through personal clothing before being consumed.
[edit] By inhalation of smoke

Burning WP produces a hot, dense, white smoke consisting mostly of phosphorus pentoxide. Most forms of the smoke are not hazardous in the likely concentrations produced by a battlefield smoke shell. Exposure to heavy smoke concentrations of any kind for an extended period (particularly if near the source of emission) does have the potential to cause illness or even death.

WP smoke irritates the eyes, mucous membranes of the nose, and respiratory tract in moderate concentrations, while higher concentrations may produce severe burns. However, no casualties have been recorded from the effects of WP smoke alone in combat operations and there are no confirmed deaths resulting from exposure to phosphorus smoke.

The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has set an acute inhalation Minimum Risk Level (MRL) for white phosphorus smoke of 0.02 mg/m³, the same as fuel oil fumes. By contrast, the chemical weapon mustard gas is 30 times more potent: 0.0007 mg/m³ [51].
[edit] By oral ingestion

The accepted lethal dose when white phosphorus is ingested orally is 1 mg per kg of body weight, although the ingestion of as little as 15 mg has resulted in death.[52] It may also cause liver, heart or kidney damage.[50] There are reports of individuals with a history of oral ingestion who have passed phosphorus-laden stool ("smoking stool syndrome")[52]</div></div>

Why is it that when the USA invaded Iraq ,the Bush admin [ and the RW on the CCB] constantly repeated that Saddam's use of WMDs [ chemical weapons] against a civilian population, was enough justification for the invasion.
Now that Israel is guilty of the same thing, you guys practically applaud them for it.

Q

wolfdancer
03-14-2010, 02:57 PM
In WWI, them fun loving Germans introduced mustard gas, one ingredient being phosphorus trichloride, and also phosphorus grenades.
The treaty of Versailles, 1919, addressed that issue....but here we are 91 years later....and Israel is using phosphorus....and the rest of the world.....isn't concerned?

eg8r
03-15-2010, 11:55 AM
Blah blah blah. Sorry but your terrorist appeasing ways mean little to nothing to me.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 11:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blah blah blah. Sorry but your terrorist appeasing ways mean little to nothing to me.

eg8r </div></div>

HUH? Where do you get that? Why so nasty, Ed?

eg8r
03-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Have you actually ever read ANY of qtip's posts about those poor disrespected palestinians?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 12:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you actually ever read ANY of qtip's posts about those poor disrespected palestinians?

eg8r </div></div>

Have you actually studied all the things that Isreal has done against the USA? Ever read up on their inhumane activities? Ever studied how many times they have insulted us, right in the midst of peace efforts by the United states?

Q's posts are factual, and valuable to me. I learn lots of things from them, and I learn a lot about you in the way you continuously instult him, in spite of the fact that he adds relevant, concise, factual information to this site.

IOW.... you should show some respect to those people who do their research, and provide value to this site.

Eventhough I know that Q., doesn't give a rats a$$ what you write about him, how do you make yourself look by the constant personal insults? It's childish.

G.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 12:35 PM
Were you going to respond to my question?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 12:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were you going to respond to my question?

eg8r </div></div>

I think I did respond.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 12:50 PM
And around we go. Next time you will complain because I did not answer your question and I will just use your same response right back at you. I want you to remember this because it happens all the time with you.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 12:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And around we go. Next time you will complain because I did not answer your question and I will just use your same response right back at you. I want you to remember this because it happens all the time with you.

eg8r </div></div>

Isreal is a terrorist nation, just as much so as any other nation in the region. There is plenty in this thread that reveals my opinions about Isreal, and Palestinians. Isreal is the aggressor, and Isreal falls far short in being an appreciative ally of the United STates.

The Palestinians have just as much right to exist, as Isreal.
Clear enough?
G.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 01:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isreal is a terrorist nation, just as much so as any other nation in the region.</div></div>Then why would you hold them to a different standard than the Palestinians?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isreal is the aggressor, and Isreal falls far short in being an appreciative ally of the United STates.
</div></div>Yeah, it is all their fault. Whatever. I was wondering if you could please help me though because the search has not been working very well. Can you provide me some examples from you or qtip where either of you chastised the Palestinians for targeting women and children in their suicide bombings?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Palestinians have just as much right to exist, as Isreal.</div></div>Might be clear in your twisted logic but they are not in control of that area so they have ZERO rights. I guess you also think the illegal Mexicans have a right to come to the US and buy up property.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-15-2010, 01:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isreal is a terrorist nation, just as much so as any other nation in the region.</div></div>Then why would you hold them to a different standard than the Palestinians?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isreal is the aggressor, and Isreal falls far short in being an appreciative ally of the United STates.
</div></div>Yeah, it is all their fault. Whatever. I was wondering if you could please help me though because the search has not been working very well. Can you provide me some examples from you or qtip where either of you chastised the Palestinians for targeting women and children in their suicide bombings?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Palestinians have just as much right to exist, as Isreal.</div></div>Might be clear in your twisted logic but they are not in control of that area so they have ZERO rights. I guess you also think the illegal Mexicans have a right to come to the US and buy up property.

eg8r </div></div>

You can't stay on the subject. We were discussing Isreal's slap in America's face. Any opinions on that by any remote chance?

G.

eg8r
03-15-2010, 04:08 PM
I stayed on the topic. Actually, I quoted your text and responded. If you feel I was getting off topic it is because I was following you. It is YOUR text that I am quoting and responding to.

eg8r

Qtec
03-16-2010, 08:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, conservative Israel supporters are pinning the blame on the Obama administration for the spat for daring to publicly air its differences with the Israeli government. Making reference to Clinton’s remarks, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), who himself enjoys airing public disagreements with Obama, urged the White House to be quiet on Israel:

“It was a dust-up, a misunderstanding. (Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu has apologized, and the timing was unfortunate.</span> But the second round of criticism is unproductive. I make one appeal — sometimes silence really is golden.”

In a press release, the Israel lobby organization AIPAC offered similar remarks. “The Obama Administration’s recent statements regarding the U.S. relationship with Israel are a matter of serious concern,” the statement read, adding that the “Administration should make a conscious effort to move away from public demands and unilateral deadlines directed at Israel.”

On Fox News Sunday yesterday, the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol stated bluntly that the dust-up was all Obama’s fault. “This is a fight that the White House has picked,” he said. “I do not know, honestly, why the president chose to pick a big public fight just when it was all dying down with Israel.”

It’s unclear why critics believe the White House “picked” the fight considering that Israel agreed in November to to curb settlement growth in partial fulfillment of Israel’s obligations under the Bush administration road map.</div></div>

They didn't know the US VP was coming?

Yeah right.

Q

Gayle in MD
03-16-2010, 12:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isreal is a terrorist nation, just as much so as any other nation in the region.</div></div>Then why would you hold them to a different standard than the Palestinians?

<span style="color: #000066">Are we sending the Palestinians three billion dollars a year? No! </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isreal is the aggressor, and Isreal falls far short in being an appreciative ally of the United STates.
</div></div>Yeah, it is all their fault. Whatever. I was wondering if you could please help me though because the search has not been working very well. Can you provide me some examples from you or qtip where either of you chastised the Palestinians for targeting women and children in their suicide bombings?

<span style="color: #000066">I don't support bombing innocent civilians, ever, or violence, ever, and particularly against the brave doctors who provide abortions to women in this country, aka domestic terrorism, which the Bush administration totally failed to address even though it was domstic terrorism, and against the laws of this land.. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Palestinians have just as much right to exist, as Isreal.</div></div>Might be clear in your twisted logic but they are not in control of that area so they have ZERO rights.

<span style="color: #000066">The world according to Ed, is not a clear picture of the world. That's your opinion, and not at all an opinion of fact. Isreal has prosecuted far more damage upon innocents, than the Palesinians. </span>


I guess you also think the illegal Mexicans have a right to come to the US and buy up property.

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Hey, I am against illegals invading our country, and also, it was your boy Reagan, who gave them amnesty, after which, they flooded across our borders like never before.

So how's that Reagan Amnesty thingie workin' for ya, Ed? Oh, and you can answer MY question, since I asked you first:

Eventhough I know that Q., doesn't give a rats a$$ what you write about him, how do you make yourself look by the constant personal insults? It's childish.

G.
</span>

pooltchr
03-16-2010, 12:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Eventhough I know that Q., doesn't give a rats a$$ what you write about him, how do you make yourself look by the constant personal insults? It's childish.

G.
[/color] </div></div>

Funny you don't seem to have a problem with Woldie doing nothing but making personal insults on the forum. I guess it's different when someone is on your side.

Steve

Sev
03-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Not to worry folks. Iran is going to have a nuke with a delivery system. That entire region is going to be running for cover when Israel launches.

I believe Obama will order our pilots to fire on Israeli fighter jets when they cross the Iraqi airspace. However the Israeli fighters will be a diversion as they will have their Dolphin class subs in place to launch there boomers which will be close enough to their targets so as to prevent them from being shot down by any ABM's that may be in the area.

After that you will not hear a thing from the Palestinians. Obama will have lost all credibility and may go down in history as an socialist antisemite should this occur.

llotter
03-16-2010, 03:34 PM
I have never been a fan of Israel but this is one occasion that I got a thrill up my leg when they slapped this administration.

eg8r
03-16-2010, 06:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we sending the Palestinians three billion dollars a year? No! </div></div>It does not matter, we are talking about your views and no you don't send them $3 billion a year. If you think they are a terrorist organization why do you hold them to a different standard?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't support bombing innocent civilians, ever, or violence, ever</div></div>Don't twist what I said and please comment only on what I said. I never said you support bombing innocent civilians. What I did say is that you never chastise the Palestinians for doing it. You are quick to jump on the Israelis though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The world according to Ed, is not a clear picture of the world.</div></div>Neither is yours. I see you are resorting to an attacking style of posting. Is this another example of you changing the rules to suit your desires?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you also think the illegal Mexicans have a right to come to the US and buy up property.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gayle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, I am against illegals invading our country</div></div></div></div>Sorry but this is not the time for you change the subject. We are talking about Palestinians that have no legal right to be in Israel. Israel pushes them out and you have a fit. This is no different than an illegal mexican coming into our country. You are fine with us sending back illegal mexicans but Israel cannot kick out illegal Palestinians (or do everything it takes to keep them out)? Our political leaders are worried about pissing off the mexican-sensitive constituents so they don't want to pass any real tough laws to keep illegals out. Israel does not have this pathetically wimp attitude.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you make yourself look by the constant personal insults? It's childish.</div></div>You might want to take your own advice before dishing it out to others.

eg8r

eg8r
03-16-2010, 06:36 PM
I applaud Joe Lieberman for having a spine and speaking up.

Hey qtip, where is your freaking link? Is gayle ever going to enforce her "rule"?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-17-2010, 01:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we sending the Palestinians three billion dollars a year? No! </div></div>It does not matter, we are talking about your views and no you don't send them $3 billion a year. If you think they are a terrorist organization why do you hold them to a different standard?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't support bombing innocent civilians, ever, or violence, ever</div></div>Don't twist what I said and please comment only on what I said. I never said you support bombing innocent civilians. What I did say is that you never chastise the Palestinians for doing it. You are quick to jump on the Israelis though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The world according to Ed, is not a clear picture of the world.</div></div>Neither is yours. I see you are resorting to an attacking style of posting. Is this another example of you changing the rules to suit your desires?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you also think the illegal Mexicans have a right to come to the US and buy up property.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gayle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, I am against illegals invading our country</div></div></div></div>Sorry but this is not the time for you change the subject. We are talking about Palestinians that have no legal right to be in Israel. Israel pushes them out and you have a fit. This is no different than an illegal mexican coming into our country. You are fine with us sending back illegal mexicans but Israel cannot kick out illegal Palestinians (or do everything it takes to keep them out)? Our political leaders are worried about pissing off the mexican-sensitive constituents so they don't want to pass any real tough laws to keep illegals out. Israel does not have this pathetically wimp attitude.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you make yourself look by the constant personal insults? It's childish.</div></div>You might want to take your own advice before dishing it out to others.

eg8r </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but this is not the time for you change the subject. We are talking about Palestinians that have no legal right to be in Israel. Israel pushes them out and you have a fit. This is no different than an illegal mexican coming into our country. You are fine with us sending back illegal mexicans but Israel cannot kick out illegal Palestinians (or do everything it takes to keep them out)? Our political leaders are worried about pissing off the mexican-sensitive constituents so they don't want to pass any real tough laws to keep illegals out. Israel does not have this pathetically wimp attitude.

</div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">OIC???? Now I know how little you know about the region,and what belonged to whom.

If someone came to your house tomorrow, and threw you out on the street, would you try to get it back?

You need to do some reading about Palestinian history.

</span>

eg8r
03-17-2010, 12:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OIC???? Now I know how little you know about the region,and what belonged to whom.</div></div>So you think the British should be able to just come and go as they please here in the US? Who owned it before does not matter. You are trying very hard to change the subject.

eg8r

Sev
03-17-2010, 12:20 PM
As I understand it the Jordanians have a bigger claim on the so called Palestinians, than the Palestinians have on the area they now reside in.

Problem is the Jordanians dont want them back.

Gayle in MD
03-18-2010, 07:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OIC???? Now I know how little you know about the region,and what belonged to whom.</div></div>So you think the British should be able to just come and go as they please here in the US? Who owned it before does not matter. You are trying very hard to change the subject.

eg8r </div></div>

No, you are changing the subject. The Right in the Isreali, is comparable to Hammas. The entire surrounding region, and the U.N., America, Russia, the Eu, all request and expect Israel to cooperate in a two state solution.

They act as if they have the power, and the right, to thumb thier noses at the rest of the world, over and over again. Well, they can't, and the sooner they realize it and become part of the solution, instead of just acting like a terrorist state, the better off they will be.

It's time for Israel to stop cutting their own nose off. The divide is between the right in their government, and the majority, which also approves of a two state solution.

Their recklessness in policy, threatens our soldiers, and our efforts to honorably extricate ourselves from Bush's remaining residue from his Foreign Policy Fiasco, which continues to weaken our country.

Let Israel begin to act responsibly, and show a willingness to compromise for a two state solution, in the interests of the United States, and their neighbors, and the Un and EU, or let them give up the two to three billion we send them every year. If they are going to thumb their noses, at what the United States requests of them in terms of cooperating in the interest of peace, they can, adn should, go forward, alone, without our constant assurances of protection, and without our money. They, over and over again, bite the hand that feeds and protects them.

G.

eg8r
03-19-2010, 11:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let Israel begin to act responsibly, and show a willingness to compromise for a two state solution</div></div>What about the Hammas terrorists? Why don't we ever see a post from you stating they should act responsibly? They walk into a center and blow up every woman and child they can and we hear nothing from you. Israel retaliates and you get pissed off.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-19-2010, 12:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let Israel begin to act responsibly, and show a willingness to compromise for a two state solution</div></div>What about the Hammas terrorists? Why don't we ever see a post from you stating they should act responsibly? They walk into a center and blow up every woman and child they can and we hear nothing from you. Israel retaliates and you get pissed off.

eg8r </div></div>

Probably because I know who started the entire problem...and realize that both countries have their radical terrorists groups, neither of which I support.

The Dark Face of Jewish Nationalism
9/11 - The US Military Knows Israel Did It

By Dr Alan Sabrosky

March 19, 2010 "Redress" - -Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu once remarked to a Likud gathering that "Israel is not like other countries". Oddly enough for him, that time he was telling the truth, and nowhere is that more evident than with Jewish nationalism, whether or not one pins the "Zionist" label on it.

Nationalism in most countries and cultures can have both positive and negative aspects, unifying a people and sometimes leading them against their neighbours. Extremism can emerge, and often has, at least in part in almost every nationalist/independence movement I can recall (e.g. the French nationalist movement had The Terror, Kenya's had the Mau Mau, etc.).

But whereas extremism in other nationalist movements is an aberration, extremism in Jewish nationalism is the norm, pitting Zionist Jews (secular or observant) against the goyim (everyone else), who are either possible predator or certain prey, if not both sequentially. This does not mean that all Jews or all Israelis feel and act this way, by any means. But it does mean that Israel today is what it cannot avoid being, and what it would be under any electable government (a point I'll develop in another article).

The differences between Jewish nationalism (Zionism) and that of other countries and cultures here I think are fourfold:

1. Zionism is a real witches' brew of xenophobia, racism, ultra-nationalism and militarism that places it way outside of a "mere" nationalist context — for example, when I was in Ireland (both parts) I saw no indication whatsoever that the Provisional Irish Republican Army or anyone else pressing for a united Ireland had a shred of design on shoving Protestants into camps or out of the country, although there may well have been a handful who thought that way — and goes far beyond the misery for others professed by the Nazis;

2. Zionism undermines civic loyalty among its adherents in other countries in a way that other nationalist movements (and even ultra-nationalist movements like Nazism) did not — e.g. a large majority of American Jews, including those who are not openly dual citizens, espouse a form of political bigamy called "dual loyalty" (to Israel and the US) that is every bit as dishonest as marital bigamy, attempts to finesse the precedence they give to Israel over the US (lots of Rahm Emanuels out there who served in the Israeli army but NOT in the US armed forces), and has absolutely no parallel in the sense of national or cultural identity espoused by any other definable ethnic or racial group in America — even the Nazi Bund in the US disappeared once Germany and the US went to war, with almost all of its members volunteering for the US armed forces;

3. The "enemy" of normal nationalist movements is the occupying power and perhaps its allies, and once independence is achieved, normal relations with the occupying power are truly the norm, but for Zionism almost everyone out there is an actual or potential enemy, differing only in proximity and placement on its very long list of enemies (which is now America's target list); and

4. Almost all nationalist movements (including the irredentist and secessionist variants) intend to create an independent state from a population in place or to reunite a separated people (like the Sudeten Germans in the 1930s) — it is very rare for it to include the wholesale displacement of another indigenous population, which is far more common of successful colonialist movements as in the US — and perhaps a reason why most Americans wouldn't care too much about what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians even if they DID know about it, is because that is no different than what Europeans in North America did to the Indians/Native Americans here in a longer and more low-tech fashion.

eg8r
03-19-2010, 12:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably because I know who started the entire problem...and realize that both countries have their radical terrorists groups, neither of which I support.
</div></div>Just would be nice to once in a while see you condemn the Palestinians for blowing up innocent men and women.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-19-2010, 12:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably because I know who started the entire problem...and realize that both countries have their radical terrorists groups, neither of which I support.
</div></div>Just would be nice to once in a while see you condemn the Palestinians for blowing up innocent men and women.

eg8r </div></div>

I did that for years, Ed, but I did that before I really made a complete study of the historical divide, and how it came about.

I don't favor one over the other, now, I look at individual icidents, and how each country responds, and overall, it is clear to me, that the Palestines are far more willing to work for peace and compromise.

Israel's right wing, is no differenct than hammas. We are wrong, to support Israel without judgement, and condemn the Palestinians solely.

I have hopes, that this administration will be more evenhanded, as it is clear, that unless the United STates presents a more even reaction to the inhumane actions of both countries, equally, there will never be peace for Israel, or for us.

G.

G.

Sev
03-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Israel have very pointed let Obama know they will allies or foes.

Its well known that Israel has at least 200 nuclear missiles with the matching delivery systems. It is suspected that their Dolphin subs are also deliver capable.
Obama would be well advised to keep supporting Israel if he doesn't want to risk those missiles flying all direction.

If Israel is cornered the end will be nothing like Masada this time.

LWW
03-19-2010, 04:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is clear to me, that the Palestines are far more willing to work for peace and compromise.

G. </div></div>

That is the most amazed I have ever been at a single post in my life.

LWW

Sev
03-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Its a stunner thats for sure.