PDA

View Full Version : A scandal of enormous proportions.



Qtec
03-16-2010, 04:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A federal judge has reaffirmed her earlier ruling blocking the congressional effort to defund the anti-poverty group ACORN. On Wednesday, Judge Nina Gershon cemented a decision from last year that such action amounted to an unconstitutional ďbill of attainder.Ē Judge Gershon told all federal agencies to allow ACORN funding without delay:

JOHN ATLAS: Iím going to talk about that in a minute, but the first thing I want to say, that needs to be said over and over again, is that the act of defunding ACORN by Congress is a national disgrace. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>We should all be outraged about that. <span style='font-size: 17pt'><u>Basically what happened is Congress bowed to Fox News, Glenn Beck, the rest of the right-wing echo chamber</u></span>óweíre talking about the <span style='font-size: 20pt'>United States Congress</span>ó<u>and then <span style='font-size: 17pt'>scapegoated the most effective anti-poverty organization in the country. Thatís a scandal of enormous proportions. </span></u> </span></div></div>

link (http://crooksandliars.com/node/35591)

Q

Deeman3
03-16-2010, 07:29 AM
Q,

Althouh we do have a long history of funding criminal organizations, even the house and senate knew this group was facing charges in multiple states and has been a racket for decades.

Not to worry, they are changing their names on many of their affiliated organizations so the flow of cash will resume soon.

Qtec
03-16-2010, 07:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Q,

Althouh we do have a long history of funding criminal organizations,</div></div>

Despite the mutiple reports that have exonerated ACORN and slammed the so called investigative journalism from the extreme right, [ see above post ] you still IGNORE the facts!!!

Ask yourself one Q.

Brietbart and O'Keefe refuse to release the uncut videos.

WHY?

lies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL68WFEw2Gk&feature=player_embedded)

Q

Qtec
03-16-2010, 07:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ACORN has a record of helping poor people in these hard times. They help them get homes. They help them stop foreclosures. They help them fight predatory lending. They help them register voters. Iím talking about minority voters, people who ordinarily donít vote. Very hard to get that kind of voter registration work done. And in short, all other studies, including mine, have documented how effective ACORN has been and how important itís been to low-income people, especially the working poor.</div></div>

Facts.

Q

LWW
03-16-2010, 08:49 AM
How can a good leftist not love a group which aids child prostitution and slavery to finance political campaigns ... it's the Chicago way.

LWW

sack316
03-16-2010, 08:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Q,

Althouh we do have a long history of funding criminal organizations,</div></div>

Despite the mutiple reports that have exonerated ACORN and slammed the so called investigative journalism from the extreme right, [ see above post ] you still IGNORE the facts!!!
</div></div>

They fired the workers in the video (why, if so innocent?). They closed that chapter, and are leaving a few other areas as a result of settlements in suits (why settle, if so innocent?). Not to mention 2 MORE workers were just brought up on charges of voter fraud, this time in Wisconsin (why so many workers charged with fraud, if so innocent?). And I've given long lists previously about some of the other charges...

Yep, someone ignores the facts. Fine group to defend there. Should we even begin to get into the hand they had in lending and housing? Which, I'll admit was a good thing they were trying to do there... but, really look at it, and see how responsible it all is. The relaxed lending standards and practices that ultimately resulted in much of the greed and "taking advantage" by those evil bankers... was lobbied for and pushed for by ACORN, going all the way back to 1977.

Sack

pooltchr
03-16-2010, 09:02 AM
I'm not surprised at your support of this criminal organization. Anyone who would post that the attack at Fort Hood is a joke, has already made it clear that they support criminals.

You have absolutely no credability in my eyes.

Steve

sack316
03-16-2010, 09:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ACORN has a record of helping poor people in these hard times.</div></div>

And pushing for relaxed lending standards that allow some hard times to come.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They help them get homes. They help them stop foreclosures.</div></div>

And help them get homes, ones they are not prepared to be responsible for, and in turn then have to try to help them stop foreclosures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They help them fight predatory lending. </div></div>

And help the relaxed standards and practices that lead to predatory lending.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They help them register voters.</div></div>

Whether legally or fraudulently, they indeed do.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iím talking about minority voters, people who ordinarily donít vote. Very hard to get that kind of voter registration work done.</div></div>

Here here! And people that don't exist often don't vote either, yet the work hard and get them registered too! And the real ones get to be registered many many times, just to make sure it sticks I suppose.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And in short, all other studies, including mine, have documented how effective ACORN has been and how important itís been to low-income people, especially the working poor.</div></div>

I thought the working poor have continually been screwed and worse and worse off over all these years. Don't we talk about such things regularly on here? How much good have they really done? Unless you count the Rathke's of course, they have been helped tremendously by the group.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Facts.

Q </div></div>

Complete facts are better.

Sack

sack316
03-16-2010, 09:19 AM
I take that one part back, about "what have they done". They actually have done many good things as well, to be fair. Amazing, and would love to know how much more good they could have done were they not corrupt.

When looking at that, remember that big bad insurance companies help a lot of people too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

LWW
03-16-2010, 09:23 AM
What you have to realize is that in the land of doublethink, 2 opposite an contradictory ... sometimes more ... sets of beliefs are accepted as "FACTS" by the O-cultists.

A good example is this issue:

1 - It is a good thing that ACORN helped these peoplle get loans and the the O-cult should be commended for it.

2 - It is a bad thing that the lenders actually made these same people these same loans and Bush should be condemned for it.

LWW

Deeman3
03-16-2010, 09:54 AM
If ACORN really specialized in registering the "working poor" most of us would have few problems with them. They seem to always be registering those who do not work, are drug addicted and do not, in any way, support the democracy other than use it's services. Registration of non-existent people, Mickey Mouse, Rin Tin Tin and giving rewards to vagrants for signing up anyone knowingly dozens of times in a day is something even most Democrats do not support, therefore cutting the funding. If the Dems wanted them to continue to get the cash, they would and no Repubican votes could stop it.

llotter
03-16-2010, 10:52 AM
Let's all hope that when the Republicans take over that there will be some major budget cuts and that ACORN will be among them. It is a big scandal that incompetent and corrupt organizations continue to feed at the public teat while the country is going bankrupt.

Gayle in MD
03-16-2010, 10:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Q,

Althouh we do have a long history of funding criminal organizations,</div></div>

Despite the mutiple reports that have exonerated ACORN and slammed the so called investigative journalism from the extreme right, [ see above post ] you still IGNORE the facts!!!
</div></div>

They fired the workers in the video (why, if so innocent?). They closed that chapter, and are leaving a few other areas as a result of settlements in suits (why settle, if so innocent?). Not to mention 2 MORE workers were just brought up on charges of voter fraud, this time in Wisconsin (why so many workers charged with fraud, if so innocent?). And I've given long lists previously about some of the other charges...

Yep, someone ignores the facts. Fine group to defend there. Should we even begin to get into the hand they had in lending and housing? Which, I'll admit was a good thing they were trying to do there... but, really look at it, and see how responsible it all is. The relaxed lending standards and practices that ultimately resulted in much of the greed and "taking advantage" by those evil bankers... was lobbied for and pushed for by ACORN, going all the way back to 1977.

Sack </div></div>

Sack,
It has been proven, over and over, that the efforts to prevent discrimination of African Americans, through the Community Reinvestment program, had nothing to do with the mortgage meltdown. Very few of those mortgages defaulted.

FM & FMac got out of the subprime market in 03, due to an accounting scandal. The meltdown would have actually been worse, if not for F. and F.

Most of the foreclosures under the CRA, succeeded and those which did not were the result of illnesses, loss of one's job, and being dumped by their insurers.

It was the ending of the Sub Prime loans, in 03, by Fannie and Freddie, which caused a huge influx of predatory lenders. From 03 through early 06, was the time when those predatory lenders approved the vast majority of sub prime, through predatory lending practices.

The chopping up and selling off of risk by Wall Street brokers, underfunded, complex credit default swaps, crooked high ball ratings, led to the meltdown.

I heard Scheila Baird (sp)say that anyone who blames Fannie and Freddie, or the CRA, is uninformed about the actual cause of the meltdown.

Time and time again, I've heard other economists say the same thing.

Blaming F & F or ACORN, is nothing but right wing BS.

G.

Gayle in MD
03-16-2010, 10:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If ACORN really specialized in registering the "working poor" most of us would have few problems with them. They seem to always be registering those who do not work, are drug addicted and do not, in any way, support the democracy other than use it's services. Registration of non-existent people, Mickey Mouse, Rin Tin Tin and giving rewards to vagrants for signing up anyone knowingly dozens of times in a day is something even most Democrats do not support, therefore cutting the funding. If the Dems wanted them to continue to get the cash, they would and no Repubican votes could stop it.

</div></div>

Prove it, Deeman. You are repeating Rw talking points, which have no validity at all.

G.

sack316
03-16-2010, 11:00 AM
I didn't say anything about F & F. I said legislation and lending practices (by the banks, etc.) were allowed due to the lax restraints placed on such lending (something we have all agreed on at some point here). A group that fought tooth and nail for such relaxing of the constraints was ACORN.

Note: though it was not lax restraints themselves that caused the problem, it was greed.

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-16-2010, 11:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't say anything about F & F. I said legislation and lending practices (by the banks, etc.) were allowed due to the lax restraints placed on such lending (something we have all agreed on at some point here). A group that fought tooth and nail for such relaxing of the constraints was ACORN.

Note: though it was not lax restraints themselves that caused the problem, it was greed.

Sack </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fresh off the false and politicized attack on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, today weíre hearing the know-nothings blame the subprime crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act ó a 30-year-old law that was actually weakened by the Bush administration just as the worst lending wave began. This is even more ridiculous than blaming Freddie and Fannie.

The Community Reinvestment Act, passed in 1977, requires banks to lend in the low-income neighborhoods where they take deposits. Just the idea that a lending crisis created from 2004 to 2007 was caused by a 1977 law is silly. But itís even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that arenít subject to the CRA. University of Michigan law professor Michael Barr testified back in February before the House Committee on Financial Services that 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision and another 30% were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts which are not subject to routine supervision or examinations. As former Fed Governor Ned Gramlich said in an August, 2007, speech shortly before he passed away: ďIn the subprime market where we badly need supervision, a majority of loans are made with very little supervision. It is like a city with a murder law, but no cops on the beat.Ē

Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley (PDF file here).

</div></div>

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

sack316
03-16-2010, 11:35 AM
That makes sense, and I can see that point (as far as the weakening of the law later being more of a culprit... instead of the original law itself circa 1977-2000). So I can compromise with you on that particular point. There are a few things in the article I take slight disagreement with, but are not relative enough to this particular chat to be worth mentioning.

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-16-2010, 02:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I take that one part back, about "what have they done". They actually have done many good things as well, to be fair. Amazing, and would love to know how much more good they could have done were they not corrupt.

When looking at that, remember that big bad insurance companies help a lot of people too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack </div></div>

So you contend the entire organization is corrupt? Is that right? I really want to get this absolutely straight.

g.

pooltchr
03-16-2010, 02:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I take that one part back, about "what have they done". They actually have done many good things as well, to be fair. Amazing, and would love to know how much more good they could have done were they not corrupt.

When looking at that, remember that big bad insurance companies help a lot of people too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack </div></div>

So you contend the entire organization is corrupt? Is that right? I really want to get this absolutely straight.

g. </div></div>

Much like your contention that all CEOs are corrupt, or all big business is bad, or all republicans are bad?
You've got a lot of nerve!

Steve

sack316
03-16-2010, 03:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So you contend the entire organization is corrupt? Is that right? I really want to get this absolutely straight.

g. </div></div>

Well, by the standards seemingly used for other companies and business here... then I'd say yes, definitely.

When the top dog and one of the founders embezzles money, and it is covered up for quite some time, one can't hold out much hope for the entire organization.

I do not contend every worker, or every office for that matter is "bad". I don't think the idea and dream of the organization is bad. But take embezzlement, fraud, and all their goodies... and apply that to whoever else you wish, and let me know what you'd say they are.

Sack

LWW
03-16-2010, 04:09 PM
The left's defense of ACORN has devolved into an argument that if a single non corrupt ACORN employee can be found it somehow exonerates them all.

Of course the same folks who believe that believe that if a single conservative has ever committed a single sin that it somehow condemns all of us.

LWW

eg8r
03-16-2010, 06:42 PM
Hey qtip, is this another example of you linking to facts as gayle purports you do or just another opinion? I ask not because I don't already know, I just want to know what you think.

Also, do you honestly think Beck has the kind of power that forces Obama/Reid/Pelosi to bow down to?

eg8r

eg8r
03-16-2010, 06:42 PM
Where were your facts in the start of this thread?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-17-2010, 01:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So you contend the entire organization is corrupt? Is that right? I really want to get this absolutely straight.

g. </div></div>

Well, by the standards seemingly used for other companies and business here... then I'd say yes, definitely.

When the top dog and one of the founders embezzles money, and it is covered up for quite some time, one can't hold out much hope for the entire organization.

I do not contend every worker, or every office for that matter is "bad". I don't think the idea and dream of the organization is bad. But take embezzlement, fraud, and all their goodies... and apply that to whoever else you wish, and let me know what you'd say they are.

Sack </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When the top dog and one of the founders embezzles money, and it is covered up for quite some time, one can't hold out much hope for the entire organization.
</div></div>

Link?

sack316
03-17-2010, 04:18 AM
You really need a link? You know about ACORN, but are not aware of Rathke's embezzlement, and 8 year cover up by the organization/ Rathke brothers?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/us/09embezzle.html?_r=1

Google search for Rathke Embezzlement, with nearly 86,000 links if you'd like more (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=rathke+embezzlement&aq=f&aqi=g-m2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=a73b11f867dbecea)

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-17-2010, 05:23 AM
Yes, I've heard abut it, but where is he now? In jail????

Yet, you still think the entire organization is corrupt?

Guess that would mean that because of the massive Abramoff scandal, the Republican Party is still completely corrupt?

Is the CIA completely corrupt?

How about Wall Street? completely corrupt?

Guess you get my point, eh?

sack316
03-17-2010, 05:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I've heard abut it, but where is he now? In jail????

<u>Yet, you still think the entire organization is corrupt?</u>

Guess that would mean that because of the massive Abramoff scandal, the Republican Party is still completely corrupt?

Is the CIA completely corrupt?

How about Wall Street? completely corrupt?

Guess you get my point, eh? </div></div>

No, I said "by the standards seemingly used for other companies and business here" then they are. You have posted quite a few times about big business, and point out a few things, a deem the entire organization (and sometimes, entire industry) as corrupt. So using that same logic, and applying the same standards, then yes it applies to ACORN as well.

Now personally do I think the ENTIRE organization is corrupt? No. Which is why I also said "I do not contend every worker, or every office for that matter is "bad". I don't think the idea and dream of the organization is bad" (also cite this as yet another example of the need to read, pay attention, and comprehend on here).

In fact, the idea of the organization is wonderful. What it says it strives to achieve is awesome. And I'm certain it has thousands of employees who strive to reach those standards and accomplish the good goals. But one bad apple can spoil the bunch, and in this case, there has been a laundry list of rotten acorns bringing the group down. And it's a shame.

Oh, and to answer your questions re: republicans, wall street, CIA... you seem to think so. Why don't you feel the same about ACORN as you do republicans, or wall street?

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-17-2010, 05:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I've heard abut it, but where is he now? In jail????

<u>Yet, you still think the entire organization is corrupt?</u>

Guess that would mean that because of the massive Abramoff scandal, the Republican Party is still completely corrupt?

Is the CIA completely corrupt?

How about Wall Street? completely corrupt?

Guess you get my point, eh? </div></div>

No, I said "by the standards seemingly used for other companies and business here" then they are. You have posted quite a few times about big business, and point out a few things, a deem the entire organization (and sometimes, entire industry) as corrupt. So using that same logic, and applying the same standards, then yes it applies to ACORN as well.

Now personally do I think the ENTIRE organization is corrupt? No. Which is why I also said "I do not contend every worker, or every office for that matter is "bad". I don't think the idea and dream of the organization is bad" (also cite this as yet another example of the need to read, pay attention, and comprehend on here).

In fact, the idea of the organization is wonderful. What it says it strives to achieve is awesome. And I'm certain it has thousands of employees who strive to reach those standards and accomplish the good goals. But one bad apple can spoil the bunch, and in this case, there has been a laundry list of rotten acorns bringing the group down. And it's a shame.

Oh, and to answer your questions re: republicans, wall street, CIA... you seem to think so. Why don't you feel the same about ACORN as you do republicans, or wall street?

Sack </div></div>

I don't think that's at all fair of you, Sack.

How many times have you seen me praise Republicans when I admire something one of them has done? Rep Gordon Smith, was one of them. There were several that I have spotlighted here on the forum.

If I write about the Crooks on Wall Street, that should be clear, I am talking about the crooks, not every single person who works there. Are you defending the CEO's of Goldman Sachs, A.I.G., Lehmann Brothers?

As for the Oil Industry, I have absolutely nothing good to say about them, since I believe that they are bilking the country out of a lot of money, and yes, I do think that it is a very corrupt industry.

There is a big difference between offering the public a product at a fair price, and providing what you've promised, and being a predator, without any conscience, with no intention of providing what has been promised, being nothing but a greedy pig, who doesn't care about how what you do, impacts other people.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

DickLeonard
03-17-2010, 06:06 PM
Gayle when I read about the former Sec. of the Treasury Henry Paulson bailing out all his buddies at Goldman Sachs. Then Billions to save AIG of course having Ten billion coming in insurance money betting on the Housing Market to go Belly UP.

That investigation is still going on. Hopefully we might get that Ten Billion Back.####

pooltchr
03-17-2010, 09:19 PM
I guess all those comments about how republicans are crooks, and I would never vote for any republican, and "repiglicans" and such really don't apply to all of them.

Steve

Gayle in MD
03-18-2010, 12:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DickLeonard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle when I read about the former Sec. of the Treasury Henry Paulson bailing out all his buddies at Goldman Sachs. Then Billions to save AIG of course having Ten billion coming in insurance money betting on the Housing Market to go Belly UP.

That investigation is still going on. Hopefully we might get that Ten Billion Back.#### </div></div>

I sure hope so. Even if we do, it won't solve the problem of 2/3 of American corporations not paying taxes! How many of them do we subsidize? Talk about redistribution of wealth!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Qtec
03-18-2010, 02:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>Brooklyn DA clears employees portrayed in video scam</span>
March 01, 2010

On March 1, 2010 The New York Daily News reported that:

Brooklyn prosecutors on Monday <span style='font-size: 17pt'>cleared ACORN of criminal wrongdoing after a four-month probe </span>that began when undercover conservative activists filmed workers giving what appeared to be illegal advice on how to hide money.

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>While the video by James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles seemed to show three ACORN workers advising a prostitute how to hide ill-gotten gains, <u>the unedited version was not as clear, according to a law enforcement source.

"They edited the tape to meet their agenda," </u>said the source.</span>

"On Sept. 15, 2009, my office began an investigation into possible criminality on the part of three ACORN employees," Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes said in a one-paragraph statement issued Monday afternoon. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>"That investigation is now concluded and no criminality has been found."</span>

ACORN spokesman Kevin Whelan issued the following statement on Monday:

O'Keefe and the Fox attack machine targeted ACORN because of our successful work to empower hundreds of thousands of low and moderate families as voters and active citizens.

Observers who looked closely at the filmmakers' own transcripts have already noted that O'Keefe presented low level employees with a bogus scenario in which he presented himself as a boyfriend trying to rescue a prostitute from a violent pimp. Although no employees took any actual action to file papers for loans or taxes, ACORN already conducted its own review in order to move forward serving our communities.

Hopefully today's announcement, and similar results from independent reviews, will make politicians and media examine the facts more carefully the next time a valuable community organization is attacked.


Further background: O'Keefe (who, at the time of the incident, <span style='font-size: 20pt'>was wearing normal clothes and not the outrageous costumed later edited into his films</span>) was later arrested after an attempt to tamper with phone lines at Democratic U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu's office in New Orleans. <span style='font-size: 23pt'><span style="color: #3333FF">He and his sponsors have declined to release the unedited video tapes to the public or other investigators.</span> </span> </div></div>

Are we finished now about this ACORN maffia rubbish?

Naw.

Q

Qtec
03-18-2010, 02:07 AM
See also,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Report Finds Acorn Broke No Laws
By JANIE LORBER

The controversial community organizing group Acorn has not broken any laws in the last five years, according to a Congrssional Research Service report released Tuesday evening.

The report, requested by Representative John Conyers, Democrat of Michigan, said that federal agencies, mainly the Departments of Justice and Housing and Urban Development, have awarded money to the group 48 times since 2005. But, in none of those instances did Acorn violate the terms of their funding, the report said. </div></div> link (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/acorn-broke-no-laws/)

How many laws has Blackwater broken in the last 5 years? KBR? The banks? etc

The GOP hates ACORN because they get people to vote and we all know that's not what they want.
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw)

Q

sack316
03-18-2010, 05:06 AM
Cute. I guess voter fraud doesn't count as breaking a law. Of course as soon as I saw the link you posted had misspelled "congressional" I wondered about their quality of work.

Sack

sack316
03-18-2010, 05:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't think that's at all fair of you, Sack.

How many times have you seen me praise Republicans when I admire something one of them has done? Rep Gordon Smith, was one of them. There were several that I have spotlighted here on the forum.</div></div>

Why not fair? Yes you've pointed out a few instances of things you've admired. I also said ACORN has done some good work. You also say things like how republicans ruin the country, they are all crooks, you'll never vote for one, etc. I've also said things bad about ACORN. I'm not seeing a difference in the comparison there, or anything that is unfair about it. Just as if/when another company is shown to be shady... if I were to try to defend them in spite of numerous examples to the contrary, it would not be unfair of you to ask me about applying the same standards as I have in this instance.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I write about the Crooks on Wall Street, that should be clear, I am talking about the crooks, not every single person who works there. Are you defending the CEO's of Goldman Sachs, A.I.G., Lehmann Brothers?</div></div>

Nope, I am not defending them. I think all crooks like that should go to jail. Which reminds me, why hasn't Rathke ever been to jail for his crime?

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-18-2010, 06:54 AM
I suppose the difference between us is that my most pressing question, and answer to your serious attention to ACORN, is why isn't Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Rove/Libby/Wolfowitz/Ledeen/Delay/etc.,etc., in jail.

And no, I will never vote for the anyone in the Republican Party, which presented America with four consecutive, corrupt administrations, and a twelve year spendoholic majority, which broke all earmark records, grew the government, left the country vastly worse than when they gained power, particularly regarding foreign threats, loss of economic power, devastating results of which have severely compromised our global position in the world.

The last R. administration having nearly destroyed America's entire economic base, and global power, through never before seen, gross incompetence, and lies, which led to leaving in their wake, two costly, unfinished wars, which have weakened our global position, our former honor and our power on a global level.

All of which, created the dangerous accumulative horrendous legacy, bit by bit, in which we currently find ourselves. This is what we are struggling to overcome, created through their corruption, lies, and incompetence, and all for hidden purposes, and under illegal policies which have left the serious threatenng results which we must continue to work to survive.

No, never would I take the word of anyone involved in the Republican Party, except when they have the courage, and knowledge to articulate their disapproval of the damaging policies of the Republicans that I have been watching for the last forty plus years, the last 12 of which nearly put this country in a permanent ditch. Among the worst, the most damaging and relentless poor treatment of our soldiers, that I have ever seen by any administration, hence my outrage has grown as I view sheer obstructionism in dealing with the legacy, they created, for political purposes, including disgusting tactics they use, in order to continually divide our country with MORE lies, unamerican rhetoric and pure obstructionism.

Any effort to compare judgement of unamerican, unpatriotic, unconscionable behavior of the last Republican majority, and adminstrations, to anything unseemly about a community organization like ACORN, is absurd beyond belief.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

No, it is NOT the same thing, not even close!

pooltchr
03-18-2010, 07:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And no, I will never vote for the anyone in the Republican Party,
</div></div>

Just suppose, for a minute, that Hillary decided that her best chance to get into the White House were to switch parties and run against Obama in 2012......what would you do????

On one hand, you try to tell us that you don't think all republicans are bad, which would lead one to think you believe some of them are good, yet you wouldn't vote for one, even if they fall into the "good" catagory?????????????????????


Steve

Qtec
03-18-2010, 11:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cute. I guess voter fraud doesn't count as breaking a law. </div></div>

What voter fraud?

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Give ONE example of any ACORN employee convicted of voter fraud.</span>
Lets not forget. We are talking about an ORG with hundreds of workers and thousands of volunteer workers.

Voter registration fraud and voter fraud are two completely different things.

Q

sack316
03-18-2010, 02:56 PM
Forgive any error in wordings then, dear friend. Because being convicted of one is no biggie at all.

Nice argument Q... "Why, he's not a killer! He was convicted of manslaughter, not murder!" "He's not a thief, he was convicted of possession of stolen property that was missing from the house, not of burglary".

Sack

p.s. back to your earlier post... about being clean as a whistle for 5 years. Any instances of VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD over those 5 years? Just curious... well, I know the answer so I'm not curious about that per say, just curious as to what you'll say.

sack316
03-18-2010, 03:00 PM
k, sorry it's not worth arguing about.

You are totally right... none of it is anywhere near the same at all. Not one bit, not even close. Doesn't even resemble anything close to a double standard of thought or attitude. Acorn is so awesome, and when I grow up I hope I can be a Rathke and be that honorable. And if I ever have a business or a group, I hope it can be as squeaky clean and fantastic as ACORN. Some people pray to God for guidance... but God prays to ACORN for his, that's how great they are.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sack

pooltchr
03-18-2010, 04:16 PM
Obama says they are great, so the Obamatrons say they are great!

I've never seen so many people incapable of independent thought!

Steve

Qtec
03-18-2010, 10:12 PM
voter fraud (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?ex=1334289600&en=7ca7e26e09dfa4d8&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about <u>120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.</u>

Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.

In Miami, an assistant United States attorney said many cases there involved what were apparently mistakes by immigrants, not fraud. </div></div>



Q

sack316
03-19-2010, 02:52 AM
Ah, ok, good article actually. So now it's size that matters (they told me it didn't, but I knew I shouldn't believe them /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ). So voter fraud is small. It likely hasn't changed any outcome of any elections. Outstanding.

So again, we have a defense such as "well, he only stole a dollar from me, so he's not that bad of a thief".

What you have said has gone from "spick and span" for the last 5 years, to well it's not THAT crime, to, well it's not THAT BAD of a crime.

Am I following correctly? Probably not.

Sack

Qtec
03-19-2010, 06:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So voter fraud is small. </div></div>

In the last election <u>130 million</u> people voted and in the last 5 years only <u>120 people</u> have been charged with illegally voting! ie <span style='font-size: 17pt'>its a non issue.</span>

Worth noting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>The push to prosecute voter fraud <u>figured in the removals last year of at least two United States attorneys</u> whom Republican politicians or party officials had criticized for failing to pursue cases.</span>

The campaign has roiled the Justice Department in other ways, as career lawyers clashed with a political appointee over protecting votersí rights, and several specialists in election law were installed as top prosecutors.

Department officials defend their record. ďThe Department of Justice is not attempting to make a statement about the scale of the problem,Ē a spokesman, Bryan Sierra, said. ďBut we are obligated to investigate allegations when they come to our attention and prosecute when appropriate.Ē

Officials at the department say that the volume of complaints has not increased since 2002, but that it is pursuing them more aggressively.

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Previously, <u>charges were generally brought just against conspiracies to corrupt the election process, <span style="color: #990000">not against individual offenders,</span></u> Craig Donsanto, head of the elections crimes branch, told a panel investigating voter fraud last year. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>For deterrence, Mr. Donsanto said, <u>Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales authorized prosecutors to pursue criminal charges against individuals.</u></span></span>

Some of those cases have baffled federal judges. </div></div>

Remember that DoJ scandal?

The Voter fraud myth and the 'get ACORN' campaign was all designed to discourage people to vote.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The opening night speaker at the Tea Party convention suggested a return to a "literacy test" to protect America from presidents like Obama -- a segregation-era method employed by southern US states to keep blacks from voting.

In his speech Thursday to attendees, former Republican congressman Tom Tancredo invoked the loaded pre-civil rights era buzzword, saying that President Barack Obama was elected because "we do not have a civics, literacy test before people can vote in this country."

Southern states used literacy tests as part of an effort to deny suffrage to African American voters prior to Johnson-era civil rights laws. </div></div>



Q

pooltchr
03-19-2010, 08:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So voter fraud is small. </div></div>

In the last election <u>130 million</u> people voted and in the last 5 years only <u>120 people</u> have been charged with illegally voting! ie <span style='font-size: 17pt'>its a non issue.</span>

Q </div></div>

Once again, you seem to be justifying bad behavior by pointing out the degree of activity. So, if the armed robbery rate in my town were to drop to only one or two incidents per year, the actions of those one or two would be ok???????????

That's the same arguement the left has been using for years. Lying is ok, as long as it's about this subject but not that one!

Right is right...wrong is wrong....regardless of how often someone does something.

Steve

Gayle in MD
03-19-2010, 08:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">k, sorry it's not worth arguing about.

You are totally right... none of it is anywhere near the same at all. Not one bit, not even close. Doesn't even resemble anything close to a double standard of thought or attitude. Acorn is so awesome, and when I grow up I hope I can be a Rathke and be that honorable. And if I ever have a business or a group, I hope it can be as squeaky clean and fantastic as ACORN. Some people pray to God for guidance... but God prays to ACORN for his, that's how great they are.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sack </div></div>

God has nothing to do with any of this. Why does the right always bring religion into all of their illogical comparisons.

You supported one of the most unlawful administrations in history, and the right goes after ACORN because they are successful in accomplishing a wide range of things, that actually make our country a better place to live. But because their organzing efforts bring more voters in, they are bashed relentless by the right.

it's their same anger over the fact that Nancy Pelosi is one of the most successful and hard working S.O.T.H. we've ever seen.

Too bad, you don't focus on your own patry'e unlawful activities, like "The Family" taking money from a source they refuse to reveal, for their cheap rent, at their "church" so they can have a place to negotiate with their mistresses, and their mistressses families, when they get caught screwing around on their wives, and bribing people.

The right hates ACORN, and continues to bash an organization that is at it's core, a good organization, which helps people, I suppose that is their biggest sin against the Republican philosophies, anything that helps Americans, is verboden, unless they are millionaires Americans.

You folks are incredibly out of touch with the truth about yourselves....I see that Sanford, is staying, in spite of dozens of sanctions against him for his lack of ethics, and buying his way out of all of it for $76,000.00.

I see Ensign, has recieved subpoenas for an entire list of illegal activites...and that his good buddy, Tom, was right in the thick of it, trying to help him to pay off the Mistress, for a discount.

The difference being that Republicans NEVER resign, unless they are on their way to jail, and under the Bush admnistration, the politicized department of justice, no wonder none of them got what they deserved.

The Republican Party, is the most corrupt organization in thie country, and yet your focus is on a community enrichment organization.

Shows me where your oh so non partisan values really are!

G.

pooltchr
03-19-2010, 08:52 AM
Anyone who willingly admits that under no circumstances would they ever vote for a member of a political party has absolutely no right to call anyone else partisan.

Steve

LWW
03-19-2010, 10:25 AM
Have we ever been informed what this "scandal of enormous proportions" actually was?

Oh, and as to voting for only 1 party ... that's why the dems went to court to force party ID to be included on the ballot.

How else could the spoon fed crowd possibly know who they support unless someone tells them who they support?

LWW

sack316
03-19-2010, 11:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So voter fraud is small. </div></div>

In the last election <u>130 million</u> people voted and in the last 5 years only <u>120 people</u> have been charged with illegally voting! ie <span style='font-size: 17pt'>its a non issue</span>.

</div></div>

Your logic and reasoning are amazing.

Ya know, Charles Manson, IIRC wasn't necessarily convicted of murder... but rather only conspiracy to commit murder. And considering there are over 300 million people in this country, and his "family" only killed around ten... it's a total non issue and he shoulda stayed free. He was actually a pretty good community organizer too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-19-2010, 11:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So voter fraud is small. </div></div>

In the last election <u>130 million</u> people voted and in the last 5 years only <u>120 people</u> have been charged with illegally voting! ie <span style='font-size: 17pt'>its a non issue</span>.

</div></div>

Your logic and reasoning are amazing.

Ya know, Charles Manson, IIRC wasn't necessarily convicted of murder... but rather only conspiracy to commit murder. And considering there are over 300 million people in this country, and his "family" only killed around ten... it's a total non issue and he shoulda stayed free. He was actually a pretty good community organizer too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Finally we agree on something, yes, Q is amazing. It is incredible to me, that while I'm sure I am not as smart as Q is, we think so much alike. I can't count the number of times that he has written here my exact thoughts on a subject.

Glad that you can recognize his amazing brilliance, combined with good common sense. A very rare combination IMO!

Bravo Q!

G. </span>

sack316
03-19-2010, 11:37 AM
Actually, all sarcasm aside from this thread, I do think Q is a very intelligent person.

Sack

Gayle in MD
03-19-2010, 11:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, all sarcasm aside from this thread, I do think Q is a very intelligent person.

Sack </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Sarcasm? You were being sarcastic??? </span>

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif