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View Full Version : Most Crushing Repub Defeat Since 60's



Gayle in MD
03-22-2010, 02:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">David Frum, former speechwriter to President George W. Bush:

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. </span>Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. [...]

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? </span><span style='font-size: 17pt'>How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?</span>We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat. [...]

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

</div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">LOL, dream on, righties. </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

pooltchr
03-22-2010, 02:24 PM
It may not even come to that. 36 states are preparing legal challenges to the bill for a number of constitutional reasons....funding bills originating in the senate???? Just one example. States are also working on passing laws making it illegal to fine anyone for not purchasing a product.

In their zeal to make history and save Obama's presidency, the idiots that voted yes for this bill seem to have failed to pay any attention to the constitution.

Yes, Reps may have suffered a defeat this weekend, but it is nothing compared to the one the Dems are looking at in 8 months!

Steve

Deeman3
03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
However, the long term damage has been done and they are right, once a rush of free entitlements are handed out, they will never go away. Those of you retired and lucky enough to have marginal health care, move over. You may never get to see a doctor again.

pooltchr
03-22-2010, 03:25 PM
Unfortunately, you may be correct. Maybe everyone can begin to understand what Rush meant when he said he hoped Obama would fail!

03/21/10...another day that will live in infamy!

Steve

Sev
03-22-2010, 07:08 PM
Here is one thing you all have missed.

The Commerce Clause is about to be revisited. And Obama took a shot at the SCOTUS during that "State of the Union".

The previous ruling could be modified or reversed and returned to original intent.
Oh they would scream over that and set the progressive/socialist back on their heals.

pooltchr
03-22-2010, 07:46 PM
OMG, I missed that one too. Barry may come to regret that little jab he took at the court....he might need them!!!!

Steve

Sev
03-22-2010, 08:04 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

wolfdancer
03-22-2010, 08:39 PM
It's sad that we have such divergent views on affordable health care.
Sad also to think that people suffer and die needlessly, because they have no HC, but isn't that part of the natural selection process to better the species?
I wonder if SS would ever be enacted in today's "atmosphere", let alone Medicare?
And maybe we couldn't even get a sewer system funded and approved that would include the poor housing sections...."let em wallow in their own waste"
I'm not sure this bill passage was as crushingly good as getting John Boehner's gonads caught in a vise, but close....
Now....how do we finance it?....maybe our good friends, the Chinese, will lend a hand?

pooltchr
03-22-2010, 09:01 PM
If I might ask a question with the hope of getting a straight answer, If we add 30 million more to the list of those who have insurance, but cut the amount insurance can pay for healthcare, is it not reasonable to expect that there will be fewer doctors available to treat more patients in the system?

Many doctors are considering early retirement and fewer young people are choosing to enter the medical field.
What good will it do to have everyone in the country covered with insurance, if there is no one to provide the health care?

Straight answer?

Steve

LWW
03-23-2010, 03:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's sad that we have such divergent views on affordable health care.</div></div>

It's sad that people believe this will lead to affordable health care.

LWW

Gayle in MD
03-23-2010, 06:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, the long term damage has been done and they are right, once a rush of free entitlements are handed out, they will never go away. Those of you retired and lucky enough to have marginal health care, move over. You may never get to see a doctor again. </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Interesting view, revealing, and shows that you would prefer insurance continuing to deny children who are ill, drop any of us for the sin of falling ill, and focus on your disdain when some of the tax dollars will go for helping hard working Americans, instead of killing strangers on the other side of the world, or sending billions of dollars to Iraq to insure health care for Iraqi children, or just running up loads of debt to China, so that some stupid republican president can play his war games.

Like I always say, the baby boomers want their cake, and eat it too. That is one of the great flaws in your generation, IMO.

The fact that republicans who are always the pro corporate cheats, and anti the hard working middle class, renamed an act of conscience like social security, and medicare for the retired citizens in our great country, "Entitlements" does not change the fact that millions of American lives have been far more secure and improved, thanks to every time that our leaders made laws in the interest of good conscience and humane treatment of all American citizens.

It is no surprise to me that the right can only support corporate thievery and corruption, cheer for more wars and bombs, more pollution and greed, and less of any security for the average American workers....describes exactly the kind of disgusting excuses for humanity which I watched last weekend, showing all of us just how repulsive republicans really are, hissing and spitting like toddlers, when they can't get their boomer ideal of having their cake and eating it too. Always poor losers, who take their marbles home in a huff, just as republican leaders have done since they lost the majority, refusing to be part of the solution, and claiming that all they wish for is failure, par for every historical analysis of republican bahavior when they can't get everything they want, they leave the debate, or distort it, and then spread lies and denials about their bad behavior afterwards, twising the reality of who won and who lost.....we see that right here on this forum everyday....

This time the winners are sick children, retirees, and middle class families, so we all knew we would have to once again witness the animal like protests of the right wing haters in our society. there was plenty of it to see last weekend.

G.

G.



G. </span>

LWW
03-23-2010, 06:26 AM
My poor Gayle ... if you only realized that this is a Godsend for insurance companies and big pharma.

Why do you think the pharmas invested over $100,000,000.00 to get this passed?

Why do you think that pharma and health insurance stocks jumped immediately?

You are cheering for another brick in the wall of dearest leader's fascist economy.

But ... you believe Debbie Schlussel is credible and she claims Media Matters and the left are funded by an American immigrant Nazi.

LWW

Gayle in MD
03-23-2010, 06:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's sad that we have such divergent views on affordable health care.
Sad also to think that people suffer and die needlessly, because they have no HC, but isn't that part of the natural selection process to better the species?
I wonder if SS would ever be enacted in today's "atmosphere", let alone Medicare?
And maybe we couldn't even get a sewer system funded and approved that would include the poor housing sections...."let em wallow in their own waste"
I'm not sure this bill passage was as crushingly good as getting John Boehner's gonads caught in a vise, but close....
Now....how do we finance it?....maybe our good friends, the Chinese, will lend a hand? </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Since you mention China, we're going to see some changes in the republican policies of filling China's pockets. This president has to finaish the mess Bush left our country, which he is doing right now, as our equipment and troops are being rescued from Bush's Fiasco in Iraq, the misguided war of choice, which originally put us into the pit of debt, as Republicans spent their asses off for twelve years, eight of which with Bush's blessings....

Turning all of this around, is going to take time, but we are lucky to have a president who seeks to address the core of America's pressing economic problems.

As time goes on, we will see more cuts and savings as we extricare ourselves from the republican rah rah war ideology, money which will be used to pay down our debts, and enrich our energy, educational and public aid for all of those hard working Americans whose lives have been destroyed, by republican policies, and futures negatively impacted by republican policies, like Bush's Ownership Soceity, pushing up the number of sub prime mortgages, leadng to massive floreclosures, launching a war of choice, in the wrong place, wrogn time, and wrong reasons, mishandling the money for both of them, while cutting taxes, subsidizing corporations for outsourcing American jobs, failing to address the waste of war profiteering pigs, and removing limits on corporate pollution....all of these actions contributed to our finding ourselves in the most threatening circumstances since the great depression, and all to China's benefit, along with Saudi Arabia's, al Qaeda's, Iran, s and North Korea... and the Cheney/Bush oil cronies.

How refressing to see our government doing things to improve the lives of Americans, for a change, instead of throwing our money down the drain on wasteful, failing Neocon policies, which nearly destroyed us. Forcing Democracy at the end of a gun.

We have set a new course, one for the benefit of hard working middle class Americans, the backbone of our country. That alone, in and of itself, will encourage a future were America spends for the betterment of it's citizens, not to enrich the war machine, corporate cheaters, corrupt bankers and hedge funders, as we continue to extricate ourselves from Bush's wars, Bush's failed economy, Bush's failed education federal mandate, NCLB, HIS Federal Mandate, which was so damaging to our children, after he defunded his own program.

I see a very bright future, and the strawman BS of the right, being further exposed as people see that there are no death panels, no money for federal abortions, no killing granny before her time, just more hard working Americans, seeing their tax dollars spread around to benefit more people than the corporate pigs, and for more Americans than just Republican cronies, more investments in American life, instead of just going straight into the pockets of the top 1&1/2 % who have been bleeding our society since 2001.

Every parent who must hear the words in a hospital room, that their baby has diabetes, is born with downs, or some other sad illness, will be able to face their burdens without losing everything they own.

There are plans for dealing with China, and they begin with a lot of the fixes underway right now, some included in the Bill, which provides tax cuts for small businesses, and higher taxes for the Walmarts of our country, who fill China's pockets, with profits from our retail sales, building an American employee base of low paid workers, who must end up in the emergency room if they fall ill.

Many single young uninsured whippersnappers on their motorcycles, full of beer, will have to pay for their own risks and pleasures in the future, by carrying their own insurance, instead of just lining up for Medicaid after they end up in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives, while others can access their parent's insurance, while they are getting a college degree.

Truth be told, we'd have had a far better bill if the republican spin machine wasn't sure to call it socialism, communism, and worse, we'd have just expanded medicare to all citizens, but that is where we MUST go in the future, if we are to remain competitive in the global, flat economy....forcing down medical prices by increasing competition, and ending exploitation, will go a long way to help us pay off Bush's debts to China. It will happen, bit by bit, and we will all benefit, not just the top billionaires....not just the corporate pigs, but all Americans.

G. </span>

Sev
03-23-2010, 06:54 AM
AHAHAHHAHHAAAH!!!
So blind.
This is all about the flashyness of a huge bill. Not enacting reform that is efficient.

Just wait till you have to start jumping through hoops.
People better have a huge stash of cash around so they can bribe doctors to perform procedures of the record.

Black market surgery is going to be huge.

pooltchr
03-23-2010, 08:52 AM
The one thing they don't seem to understand is that making sure everyone has insurance coverage will be of little use if the healthcare isn't available. Rationing will be the natural result of more people wanting healthcare, and fewer people being able to provide it!

Steve

wolfdancer
03-23-2010, 11:19 AM
It's your question, but I am not qualified to answer that; not having enough info to make an informed answer.
It's just too bad our lawmakers didn't have access to your input, nor didn't take into consideration the grim results that you have outlined.....
Doctor's quitting en masse, Medical schools closing down for lack of enrollments.
It reminds me of the old story about a Doctor questioning the amount the plumber was charging him for fixing a leak. He told him that he only charged $xx to take somebody's appendix out....and the plumber replied....that's all he charged when he was a Doctor.
So less Doctor's, but more plumbers maybe
I'm sure as a Christian, you would have preferred the 30 million to get along nicely without health care, as part of God's plan for them.....but for now it seems, we are following the lead of other civilized nations.....who have health care, but not without many problems, complaints, and dissatisfaction .....and some that can afford it come here to be treated by our Doctors.
Trying to argue the merits of a passed bill with me....seems about as useless as beating a dead horse. I'd suggest you find someone as versed on HC as you are.

Bobbyrx
03-23-2010, 11:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This time the winners are sick children, retirees, and middle class families,</div></div>

It looks like the pharmaceutical companies are winners also.
link (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/03/big-pharma-big-winner-health-care-reform)

It's funny that the article mentions the drug companies jacking up the prices or their brand name drugs this year. I have been in pharmacy for 30 years and there has NEVER been ANY year when the prices on brand meds have not gone up. If people would insist on generics they would save tons of money.

pooltchr
03-23-2010, 12:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's just too bad our lawmakers didn't have access to your input, nor didn't take into consideration the grim results that you have outlined.....
</div></div>

We all have access to the same information. What is too bad is the fact that they chose to ignore it!

Steve

DickLeonard
03-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Bobbyrx my Daughter and her husband are both Senior Scientists working for J@J. They work under the Threat of being let go because of Chinese and India workers cutting their Throats. They communicate with them and their Science is Faulty. The Bottom Line is the Bottom Line. Pretty SAD.####

LWW
03-23-2010, 01:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure as a Christian, you would have preferred the 30 million to get along nicely without health care</div></div>

They don't have health care now ... and by the left's numbers, Obama has sentenced over 100,000 US citizen's to death by not starting this plan until 2014.

LWW

pooltchr
03-23-2010, 01:56 PM
That's not Obama's fault. He had to collect taxes and fees for 4 years before they could make the numbers work.

Steve

wolfdancer
03-23-2010, 02:18 PM
your statement then...is that people who don't have HC now, and who wouldn't have had any hopes of getting HC had the bill been defeated, are now being sentenced to death, because the plan will be phased in, and not implemented immediately?

Gayle in MD
03-23-2010, 03:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bobbyrx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This time the winners are sick children, retirees, and middle class families,</div></div>

It looks like the pharmaceutical companies are winners also.
link (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/03/big-pharma-big-winner-health-care-reform)

It's funny that the article mentions the drug companies jacking up the prices or their brand name drugs this year. I have been in pharmacy for 30 years and there has NEVER been ANY year when the prices on brand meds have not gone up. If people would insist on generics they would save tons of money. </div></div>


Just more fear mongering.
Why don't they get generics? I always ask if there is a generic available.

I am thrilled to know that this bill will close the doughnut hole for medicare seniors...

This bill does a lot of very good things, and is a good start. There will be changes as we go, as always is the case with legislation that changes a broad policy, and this time, the change will be that Americans will have namy more options, much more coverage, and not have to fear the wrath of for profit, Health Insurance, when they become ill.

I just listened to a slew of Republicans, spreading their usual fear and lies, lol, soom, they will all be exposed.

I just saw that the approval for this bill is 49% to 40% in the Gallop, USA Today poll.

More people also still trust Democratics more than Republicans to work on our health care problems.

The Republicans are acting like idiots, trying to abstain on Constitutional grounds. They don't have a leg to stand on. Congress has broad authority to act on economic issues in the public's interest. Sore losers never know when to STFU.

G.

Sev
03-23-2010, 05:17 PM
Just remember when the house of cards falls because of this bill the democrats have no cover. They own it.

wolfdancer
03-23-2010, 05:25 PM
maybe, as you keep implying... they jes weren't as smart as you are, and they came up with different conclusions then you did....but then like you say....they are lefties and don't have your intellect.

Gayle in MD
03-24-2010, 12:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maybe, as you keep implying... they jes weren't as smart as you are, and they came up with different conclusions then you did....but then like you say....they are lefties and don't have your intellect. </div></div>

Whomever sent you that PM is a sick, sick person.

You should report them to the authroities.

I don't read anything from the right, except for deeman, Sack, bobby, and Ed, in small doses, when he's behaving. I see enough sicko righties on television. I saw slews of them last weekend. They are a repulsive, disgusting and dangerous bunch, and we are seeing more and more outrageous actions by them, and it will all fall right at the feet of the Republican Leadership, the Becks, O'Reilly's, Limpballs of the world.

Democratic offices were stoned over the last hours. We've seen them spitting and insulting with racist, sexist language. Chanting like the poisoned, hateful sheep thay have been for years.

We are watching the growth of America's worst domestic terrorists, right before our eyes. Those who were spitting and holding up racist signs should have been arrested, IMO.



You would think some from the right could see the true source of our country's true threat, their own party, and their own pundits. Blindness and ignorance, uninformed and clueless. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

G.

Qtec
03-24-2010, 01:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But ... you believe Debbie Schlussel is credible and she claims Media Matters and the left are funded by an American immigrant Nazi.

LWW </div></div>

Exactly.
When a RW fanatic goes after Hannity and the Freedom Alliance then she must be sure of herself , otherwise its suicide.

Q

Qtec
03-24-2010, 01:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one thing they don't seem to understand is that making sure everyone has insurance coverage will be of little use if the healthcare isn't available. Rationing will be the natural result of more people wanting healthcare, and fewer people being able to provide it!

Steve </div></div>

Geez, whatever happened to American exceptionalism?
You guys built the Panama Canal when it was deemed impossible. You built the Brooklyn Bridge, which at the time was a miracle.
You put a man on the moon more than 40 yrs ago with hard wired computers that were stitched together by seamstresses.
......but you can't make it so that every American can see a Doctor?

How sad.

Q

Gayle in MD
03-24-2010, 01:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one thing they don't seem to understand is that making sure everyone has insurance coverage will be of little use if the healthcare isn't available. Rationing will be the natural result of more people wanting healthcare, and fewer people being able to provide it!

Steve </div></div>

Geez, whatever happened to American exceptionalism?
You guys built the Panama Canal when it was deemed impossible. You built the Brooklyn Bridge, which at the time was a miracle.
You put a man on the moon more than 40 yrs ago with hard wired computers that were stitched together by seamstresses.
......but you can't make it so that every American can see a Doctor?

How sad.

Q </div></div>


/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

eg8r
03-24-2010, 02:04 PM
Huge black market. Just a week or so ago we saw how bad nationalized healthcare is, a PM from Canada came to the US for heart surgery. Pretty sad that we are headed in the same direction.

eg8r