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Gayle in MD
04-05-2010, 11:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if the Tea Party ruled? Imagine a land, let's call it Glennbeckistan, where white, patriarchal, religiously zealous, Tea Party-type patriots hold a super-majority in both houses of the legislature, sit in the governor's mansion, and control most local governments. It's a place so out of sync with the rest of the nation that states' rights and even secession are always on the agenda. It's a place where gun-ownership trumps all other rights, climate change is considered an insidious socialist conspiracy, and a miscarriage can be investigated as a potential crime. Welcome to Utah.

Our rightwing red-state legislature just finished its annual 2010 session. So-called message bills challenged the federal government's right to govern federal lands, enforce gun controls, legalize abortion, and mandate health reform. In addition, Utah's lawmakers cut the education budget, raised tuitions, and slashed services to the disabled. In fairness, state legislators across the nation, faced with disastrous drops in revenue, have likewise slashed social services and balanced budgets on the backs of the poor. In Utah, however, they also shelved pensions for public employees. That they could take such draconian action is instructive—organized labor is weak here, unions being another manifestation of creeping socialism. Utah's history of labor organizing, or grass roots and civil rights organizing for that matter, is anemic compared to most of America. This is the place, after all, where IWW radical Joe Hill was arrested and executed.
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Although Utah may be unique in some ways, Republican leaders here want the rest of the nation to be more like us. In fact, a survey of the 2010 Utah legislative session could be considered a trailer for a movie the national Republican base would like all Americans to star in. This movie would be for the Tea Party movement what Avatar is to tree huggers.

Hot-Tubbing With a Naked Fifteen-Year-Old


Before we get to this movie's best scenes, let's identify some of the actors: The posse that goes after the bad guys—the black-hatted Obamacrats -- are easy to identify. They wear white hats (and skins). They also wear their superior principles like shiny badges, and they claim to be the underdogs in this script, even while acting like schoolyard bullies. And the bad guys? In our state, they're nowhere in sight unless you're looking at Glenn Beck's chalkboard.

Demonizing opponents is a creative activity for the posse and paranoia comes in endless variations, so the bad guys could be tax-and-spend liberals, illegal immigrants, gays (or at least those following"the gay agenda"), non-Republican blacks, federalists, socialists, environmentalists, pornographers, feminists, or those nature worshippers who believe in evolution. The cast of evil-doers changes each year. So this year, for example, immigrants and gays got a break. Proposed bills to scuttle Salt Lake City's new nondiscrimination ordinances were shelved until a future session of the state legislature—the Utah-based Mormon church is already catching enough flack for its support of Proposition 8 that banned same-sex marriage in California. Further antagonizing the national gay community just now was deemed unwise. Immigrants were beaten up enough in last year's session.

The good guys are easy to recognize because they're the ones constantly telling the audience how good they are. Sadly, as is so often the case with holier-than-thou-heroes, there are visible stains on the white hats. In fact, the 2010 session was bookended by scandal. As the doors opened, Sheldon Killpack, the State Senate majority leader and an outspoken proponent of tougher drunk-driving laws, was busted for… drunk-driving. He promptly resigned.

On the last night of the session, Kevin Garn, the House majority leader, dramatically stood before packed chambers and declared that years earlier he had shared a hot tub with a naked fifteen-year-old and then paid her $150,000 to keep quiet. He could no longer"live a lie," he insisted, and so was confessing and apologizing—as it happened, right after the young woman reneged on that deal and went public. His colleagues were"shocked," but gave him a prolonged standing ovation anyway. Apparently, they find honesty inspiring, even from pedophiles. Hey, at least he wasn't a polygamist.

So the white hats are a bit soiled, but by now that's an old story—hypocrisy seems to be the evil twin of self-righteousness. Recent examples are too numerous to list.

Miscarriage Cops


Perhaps the most outrageous legislative move the posse made this year was to turn miscarriage into a crime. State Representative Carl Wimmer's bill was admittedly directed at a very specific case of miscarriage. In 2009, a woman who had been abused by her boyfriend and feared his reaction if he discovered she was pregnant paid some dirt bag $150 to beat her up so she'd abort.

The crime was as rare as it was horrific and didn't need its own bill. A rational person might reason that if the woman had access to affordable healthcare, including abortion, or if she had alternatives to living with an abusive partner, she might never have taken such drastic measures. Not Representative Wimmer, who was frank about his desire to challenge and"whittle away" at Roe v. Wade. Every year some Utah legislator takes a shot at limiting abortion or making women who get abortions feel guilty and scared.

The bill was, in the end, amended to ensure that only a woman who repeated the specific act that generated Wimmer's concern could be prosecuted. Lawmakers, however, seemed oblivious to the fact that, although only a self-arranged, beating-induced miscarriage could land a woman in jail, all women who miscarry are potentially subject to investigation. If you miscarry in Utah, you'd better be sure you have an alibi ready. So much for keeping the damn guvmint off our backs.

Health Reform and Climate Change Banned

It looks like that woman will wait a long time for access to health care. Legislators passed a bill aimed at preventing Obamacare, as it is popularly known here, from coming to Utah without their explicit permission, no matter what the U.S. Congress does. They made it clear that if Utah's citizens are required to buy insurance, the state will challenge the federal government's right to mandate that in court. Opposition to health care reform is a centerpiece in a broader"states' rights" campaign that even includes the weather.

So anti-climate change resolutions passed despite pleas from Brigham Young University and University of Utah professors to heed an overwhelming scientific consensus on the subject. Representative Mike Noel, a rancher, was successful in convincing his colleagues that global warming is just a hoax. They called on the Environmental Protection Agency and Congress to avoid carbon dioxide regulation until"a full and independent investigation of climate change science" is conducted. Give them some credit: language was stripped from the resolution accusing global warming advocates of"conspiracy" because, hey, they don't want to come across as nuts.

Another resolution called on Governor Gary Herbert to pull Utah out of the Western Climate Initiative, organized by a group of governors concerned about how climate change might affect fragile Western ecosystems. Then the posse passed another bill to protect utilities and energy producers from potential lawsuits claiming damage from greenhouse gasses. And they warned those pesky professors to shut up, too.

We Don't Need No Stinkin' Wolves… or Stinkin' Rangers Either

Legislators also tried to ban wolves. There is little evidence wolves have migrated south from Idaho or Wyoming into Utah—but they might. And if they do: bang! The lawmakers were actually using the assault on the (prospective) wolves to aim at another Big Bad Wolf, the federal government, which reintroduced the dang critters up north, protects them, and obviously cares more for the animals, fish, and reptiles on the endangered species list than it does for real human beings with guns and jeeps that will be more or less useless if pointy-headed Beltway types are allowed to boss the good people of Utah around. Advised by their lawyers that their wolf bill was clearly unconstitutional, they turned it into a strongly worded letter to the Interior Department instead.

Another bill challenged the power of federal law enforcement on roads running through federal lands, like our newest national monument, Grand Staircase Escalante. Local commissioners are still ticked off at President Bill Clinton for declaring a monument in southern Utah and so locking up large coal deposits owned by a foreign corporation that wanted to dig it up and send it to Asia.

And if telling forest rangers to take a hike wasn't enough, yet another bill aimed to take over federal lands altogether, wielding the right of eminent domain. They know many consider that one laughable, but they've vowed to fight for it all the way to the Supreme Court, if they have to. Some $3 million was designated for lawyers in a year that saw education budgets slashed. You can look forward to oil derricks in national parks if they win.

Each region of Tea Party Nation has its own peculiar reasons for feeling oppressed. Westerners complain that they are bullied by big, distant bureaucracies like the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service that oversee most of their open lands. Law enforcement on public lands is intermittent and timid. Under Bush, the federal agencies kowtowed to local politicians. Nevertheless, rangers are right up there with the IRS on the posse's most-wanted list. Oddly enough, Utahans did not object when, during the Cold War era, the military bombed, poisoned, and irradiated their vast land holdings in the Great Basin Desert.

Mr. Browning's Holiday and the Ghost of Patrick Henry


It's only right in a culture that celebrates guns for John Browning, the inventor of the automatic rifle, to get his own holiday, especially since he was born in Utah. State lawmakers originally intended to make his holiday the same as Martin Luther King's—so they'd feel better about taking the day off, I suppose. Knowing that would cause controversy, though, they finally moved the date. In a more substantive show of support for gun owners, they just officially declared that guns made in Utah were not subject to federal regulation. So there. That one is also headed for the courts. (After all the lawyers are paid, we'll be lucky if we have funds left over to pay teachers, but at least we have our priorities straight.)

Utah's states-rights advocates even have their own caucus now. They call it the Patrick Henry Caucus, and they have a website with videos extolling their own patriotism and love of liberty (unless you miscarry, are gay, or enjoy the idea of a future benign climate). Also featured is a Glenn Beck interview of Representative Wimmer, a self-described"9/12er," who proudly declares,"no doubt we're going to add to that terrorist watch list." It isn't clear if he is talking about the potential actions of the caucus's most militant supporters or if he wants to label his opponents as terrorists. Another featured video shows Beck interviewing a Texas state legislator who describes a project to pass "sovereignty" legislation and, like Utah, declare federal gun control null and void in the state.

The Ghost of Lester Maddox


The last time we witnessed such a hyperbolic states' rights rebellion, it was led by strident segregationists like George Wallace and Lester Maddox. As Alabama's governor, Wallace blocked the integration of the University of Alabama, and Maddox, who was later elected governor of Georgia, closed his restaurant rather than serve black customers. Back then, states' rights was clearly a cover for shameful racism. Maddox was not a constitutional scholar—he ran a fried-chicken joint. Advocating states' rights was the means to resist federal mandates to integrate restaurants, swimming pools, and schools. Is today's talk of states' rights and secession a response to the integration of the White House?

Proponents howl with indignation when that charge is made, but the Tea Party crowd that hurled racial epithets at a civil rights icon and spit on a Black congressman the day before the big vote on healthcare reform made mincemeat of such claims of innocence. Clearly, some of them see health-care reform as a scheme to make white taxpayers pay for services to blacks. Their resentment taps into old hatreds and fears from the days of Maddox and Wallace. Let's hope that it doesn't also tap into the old violence and terror that went with them.

Usually, however, the prejudice is subtler. For several years, Utah's lily-white legislature defiantly insisted on opening its session on Martin Luther King Day, which they refused to call by its name (substituting"Civil Rights Day" instead). There are no powerful black leaders here in our state, where African Americans were excluded from the dominant Mormon church until 1978, and our miniscule population of African Americans is not a significant voting block, so politicians who disdained Dr. King felt unconstrained. And unguarded: last year, Representative Chris Buttars stood on the floor and denounced a bill he opposed as a"black baby—a dark and ugly thing."

The states' rights movement here is also rife with"Birthers" who understand that saying Barack Obama can't be president because he wasn't born here is a more socially acceptable stance than saying a black man cannot be president because he is… well, black. If you take Birthers at face value—that their complaint is constitutional in nature and not merely bigoted—then it is fair to ask: Were they also outraged in 2000 when George Bush lost the popular vote, tied in the Electoral College, and won by one vote among Supreme Court judges appointed by his daddy? No, at that time they were counseling Democrats to be good losers and quit whining. The question is: If not racism, why the double standard?

Fightin' Words!

There was little talk of secession in this session of the legislature, but the rural newspapers and talk-radio shows that fan Tea Party sentiments in the state regularly entertain the notion that we should go our own way. Such talk is delusional. Utah is a net recipient of federal largesse. We can't pay for our kids' education by ourselves; we certainly couldn't afford all those dams and pipelines that bring us life-giving water. Forget about maintaining the highways that run over a vast horizon. Most rural communities have fire stations, water tanks, community centers, and medical clinics made possible by federal grants. Utah's economy is wedded to jobs generated by Hill Air Force Base. Why, then, so much animosity towards the hand that feeds us?

Because feeding from that hand radically contradicts our cherished image as independent, self-reliant, freedom-loving cowboys who don't need stinkin' handouts. We are proud to embody an American way of life that is seen mostly in the rear-view mirror, John Wayne westerns on Netflix, and in our own imaginations. The worst thing you can call a cowboy is a"welfare rancher," especially when it's true.

Coming Soon to a Theater Near You

Utah's legislators are self-conscious about their image. For example, a bill sponsored by Chris (“Black Baby") Buttars a few years ago to force the teaching of creationism was killed, not because his colleagues didn't share his anti-evolution beliefs but because they feared more ridicule. After all, our Mormon majority has already suffered the embarrassment of Jon Krakauer's best selling Under the Banner of Heaven and an ongoing, less than flattering television series, Big Love, about modern day polygamy.

Although it's easy to scoff at the state's buffoonish legislators, it would be a mistake to look at their shenanigans, outrageous as they are, and think: it can't happen here. Maybe not all of it, but if the Republican base and its Tea Party allies can get their hooks into your state or local government, some of it will come your way, too. Utah, after all, is where the right wing shows its hand. Right-wing jihadis get their training in Glennbeckistan and then march off to places like California to battle gay marriage.

Guess where polluters will go if Utah exempts itself from environmental laws that the rest of the country decides are reasonable to protect your health? If Utah-made guns are exempt from federal regulation, guess where guns will be made? And that's the idea—to create"nullification sanctuaries" where congressional laws and presidential directives cannot be enforced. Asserting state rights is not simply a way of pursuing regional independence and expressing differences, it is a means of avoiding and undermining the national consensus on any number of important issues.

States-rights legislators are not shy about their long-range goals. Representative Keith Grover said of the 2010 session,"It doesn't end at midnight." Members of the Patrick Henry caucus have already contacted lawmakers in Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Arizona, and Virginia to trade ideas and strategies. South Dakota and Wyoming have also declared their gun-makers exempt from federal law, and Oklahoma's legislature will also try to block health-care reform.

Better pay attention: tea-hadi warriors from the Republic of Glennbeckistan could be coming soon to a legislative theater near you.

</div></div>

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/glennbeckistan-tea-party


Welcome To Glenbeckistan

http://tomdispatch.blogspot.com/2010/03/welcome-to-glennbeckistan_3381.html

pooltchr
04-05-2010, 12:38 PM
[quote=Gayle in MD] <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if the Tea Party ruled? Imagine a land, let's call it Glennbeckistan, where white, patriarchal, religiously zealous, Tea Party-type patriots hold a super-majority in both houses of the legislature, sit in the governor's mansion, and control most local governments. It's a place so out of sync with the rest of the nation...</div></div>

If it were to happen, it would indicate that they were actually in sync with the majority of the nation. Right now, they only have about 41%, but they are still reletively new.

If it worries you, the best thing you could do would be to work to try and bring your party in line with America, rather than trying to bulldoze they way over America. Of course, that would mean considering the ideals of middle America (AKA those "flyover states"), and we couldn't allow that, now, could we???

Steve

Steve

Under
04-05-2010, 12:56 PM
Gayle in MD

On any of your posts, do you actually originate a thought? Seems that you are on a rant in posting web pages with highlighted, font size increases, or bolding those issues you would especially like to hone home to us ignorant, incompetent, illiterate conservatives.

Or, is it that the Democrats are the intellectual handicapped?

Do you understand the question?

Do you have an original thought that is not on the TALKING POINTS issued by the DEM-O-KOOKS?

LWW
04-05-2010, 01:08 PM
I love how they try to paint another conservative as a racist by comparing them to another pair of demokook racists ... George Wallace and Lester Maddox.

These types of assassination journalism only work on those among us with no actual working knowledge of history.

Those of us who do have a working knowledge of history find these rants amusing.

It is a sign of desperation that we are seeing the far left engaged in such frantic acts of self flagellation.

The Obama regime knows that it's end is near.

LWW

pooltchr
04-05-2010, 03:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Obama regime knows that it's end is near.

LWW </div></div>

Just not near enough!!!!!!!

Steve

cushioncrawler
04-05-2010, 03:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welcome To Glenbeckistan</div></div>Gayle -- Keep theze kumming. Amazing -- but i aint amazed.
Who would be the Taliban in Glenbeckistan ??????
madMac.

hondo
04-05-2010, 10:15 PM
Gayle, most of the regulars on here appreciate your efforts
to post some intelligent threads.
The forum is over-run with neo-cons currently but if none of us respond to them, they can't be having much fun.

AZ must be really boring these days since they all swarmed over here.

What a shame. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

ugotda7
04-05-2010, 11:33 PM
A Liberal Guide to Debating Conservatives
Mar 31, 2010 Author Scot Cerullo

Liberals have long since learned that debating Conservatives can be a challenging endeavor, since Conservatives have a penchant for fortifying their arguments with facts, statistics, history and other elements that create convincing and thoughtful arguments.

Not to worry. The following are several tips Liberals can use right away to begin defeating Conservatives in every debate, every time.

Lib Tip # 1: Drop the Race Card: The moment your Conservative opponent begins crafting a cogent, air-tight argument buttressed in fact, drop the race card. This technique is designed to stifle further discussion, impugns your opponent and puts him on the defensive. Often, this is enough of a distraction to direct attention away from your lack of qualitative, quantitative evidence.

Lib Tip # 2: Impugn the Source: When debating a Conservative, content is less important than character. When your Conservative opponent states a compelling argument, do not address the argument and instead attack the Conservative personally. Since we are all sinners, it shouldn’t take long to find something wrong with your opponent. Use it.

Lib Tip # 3: Social Justice Trumps Logic: Argue every issue from a “Social Justice” or “Moral” high-ground. The Conservative will attempt to show that your ideas are unworkable, unsustainable or downright illogical. Don’t worry about any of that. Just stay on message by arguing from the moral, social justice perspective.

Lib Tip # 4: Exploit the Weakest Link: Define your opponent by his weakest link. If 10,000 Tea Partiers hold a rally, and one guy has a placard that is inappropriate, that is all you need to characterize the entire group as radical, racist militants. See how that works? It’s simple and fun and, most importantly, deflects all those awkward facts and articulate points away from the discussion and leaves the Conservative in a defensive mode.

Lib Tip # 5: Use “New Speak”: If health care is not a right according to the Constitution, and you want it to be a right, claim it is and then raise your voice. Raising your voice is always the best course of action in lieu of a good argument. Redefine words to suit your needs, and always be on guard for any stray, powerful fact or statistic the Conservative may use to support their position.

Lib Tip # 6: State the Opposite of what you believe: If you are in favor of taking money from producers and giving it to non-producers, that’s fine, but make sure your wording is a bit more obtuse than that. Try saying you are in favor of moral and social justice, and characterize everyone who earns a good living as somehow having won the lottery in life, and all those who want as being desperately hard-working folks who have an almost allergic reaction to hand-outs. Never imply or point out in any way that people can change their situation simply by making better decisions.

Lib Tip # 7: Define America by it’s Errors, not its Successes: Taking a cue from Lib Tip # 4, it is important to characterize America by it’s errors in judgement and misdeeds. It is critical that you completely overlook the good things America has done, and the manner in which it has beaten back one dictatorship after another. In fact, you must go to some lengths to divert people from the notion that without America, the world would be a far more dangerous, hostile, sad place. So talk about Indians and Slaves.

Lib Tip # 8: Blame talk radio and FOX news for fanning hate and racism: Avoid at all costs the fact that both talk radio and FOX news stand in defiant refutation of an otherwise fully agreeable media that presents only one template, a liberal template. Also, attempt to divert attention should someone ask why Conservative Talk Radio and FOX news is growing exponentially, while traditional, liberal media is closing offices, thinning their employees and running deficits like, you know, the government.

Lib Tip # 9: Government is Good: Insist that a massive expansion of government is a good thing. Assert that it is our patriotic duty to pay ever more in taxes so that a centralized government comprised of east and west coast Liberal elites can decide what is best for the unwashed masses, since it would be sheer lunacy to allow individuals the right to make decisions for themselves. If you run into problems, see Tips 1-8.

Lib Tip # 10: Assign Blame away from Yourself: Always assign blame to the other guy, preferably a Conservative. This may require rewriting history so that people may one day believe that Reagan did NOT usher in 25 years of prosperity, or it may require still more retooling of the content of public school text books. But over time we’ll get there.

Remember: The ends justify the means. No matter how cruel and violating the means may be, if it results in a mediocre society where all citizens ultimately suck off the the government for their most meager needs, it will all be worthwhile.

There is of course the small matter of where all the money for all these programs will come from. Right now, they come from spirited entrepreneurs, dreamers with drive and other people whose passion poses a direct threat to the new world we want to usher in.

But first things first. Learn the ten tips to squelch free speech, hurt your opponent with the intellectual equivelant of a kick to the groin and avoid facts, statistics and studies altogether, as those will get you in trouble.

Good luck Liberals! Battle on and remember what Dennis Prager said: The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen. Oh wait, no. You don’t want to remember that. My bad. Here, try this: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Yeah, that’s the one. Whew!

ugotda7
04-05-2010, 11:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, most of the regulars on here appreciate your efforts
to post some intelligent threads.
The forum is over-run with neo-cons currently but if none of us respond to them, they can't be having much fun.

AZ must be really boring these days since they all swarmed over here.

What a shame. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>


Well maybe we want to do some more raping?

Regardless, thanks for inviting me over.

hondo
04-05-2010, 11:36 PM
A liberal guide to debating neo-cons: Total ignore.

ugotda7
04-05-2010, 11:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A liberal guide to debating neo-cons: Total ignore. </div></div>


Yeaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh right.....but then again liberals don't want the real world to intrude upon their prancing and dancing around with fairies and unicorns so maybe you're on to something?

pooltchr
04-06-2010, 07:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A liberal guide to debating neo-cons: Total ignore. </div></div>

Burying your head in the sand and ignoring what is going on around you is not necessarily the best course of action.

Steve

hondo
04-06-2010, 03:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A liberal guide to debating neo-cons: Total ignore. </div></div>

Burying your head in the sand and ignoring what is going on around you is not necessarily the best course of action.

Steve </div></div>

LOL! It is on here.

LWW
04-06-2010, 03:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A liberal guide to debating neo-cons: Total ignore. </div></div>

Burying your head in the sand and ignoring what is going on around you is not necessarily the best course of action.

Steve </div></div>

LOL! It is on here. </div></div>

Let's let that one live forever also.

LWW

Gayle in MD
04-10-2010, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, most of the regulars on here appreciate your efforts
to post some intelligent threads.
The forum is over-run with neo-cons currently but if none of us respond to them, they can't be having much fun.

AZ must be really boring these days since they all swarmed over here.

What a shame. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>

Yes, it is really a shame. Glad you enjoyed the post. there are many more of us than the right wants to think.

Liberals don't have to go out and make total fools of themselves to make their points. We are all reading, and learning the real facts, while the right is living off skewed polls, and rightwing rhetoric.

Americans are not going to go out and vote for people like Romney and Palin, that's for sure!

Let them keep counting their chickens. We don't want them to be in touch with reality. We do just fine while they're out there wasting their time showing their asses for the ignorant Bubbas they really are.

Is our children learning????

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Chopstick
04-10-2010, 10:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What if the Tea Party ruled? Imagine a land, let's call it Glennbeckistan, where white, patriarchal, religiously zealous, Tea Party-type patriots hold a super-majority in both houses of the legislature, sit in the governor's mansion, and control most local governments.
</div></div>
Yeah, we would never survive if those guys got elected. Somebody please save us from that horrible fate.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/history/explorers_history/President_George_Washington.jpg
http://www.ish-web.org/local/cms/3/images/pictures/benjamin-franklin_1.jpg
http://jhistorian.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/thomas_jefferson_by_charles_willson_peale_1791.jpg
http://thebsreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/thomas_paine1.jpg

hondo
04-10-2010, 11:37 AM
I've read about those guys and your heroes aren't them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

LWW
04-10-2010, 02:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read about those guys and your heroes aren't them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>

Tell us what you know about them?

What were their views on personal liberty? On the size and scope of government? On taxation? Edify us?

Then, explain why the only large group ... the tea party ... wanting to return to the principles of the founders is despised by the regime, you, and your ilk?

LWW

Chopstick
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read about those guys and your heroes aren't them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>

I am my own hero. I need no others.

Under
04-10-2010, 03:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, most of the regulars on here appreciate your efforts to post some intelligent threads.

The forum is over-run with neo-cons currently but if none of us respond to them, they can't be having much fun.
...</div></div>

There is nothing NEO about it. It is Conservative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neoconservatism is a right-wing political philosophy that emerged in the United States of America, and which supports using American economic and military power to bring liberalism, democracy, and human rights to other countries.[1][2][3] Consequently the term is chiefly applicable to certain Americans and their strong supporters. In economics, unlike paleoconservatives, neoconservatives are generally comfortable with a welfare state; and, while rhetorically supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.[4]</div></div>
Count me out of the NEO on the above issue.

I am in no way comfortable with any aspect of the welfare state, like a socialist or Marxist would be.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The term neoconservative was used at one time as a criticism against proponents of American modern liberalism who had "moved to the right".[5][6] Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the current sense of the term neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy.[7] According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about."[8] The term "neoconservative" was the subject of increased media coverage during the presidency of George W. Bush.[9][10] with particular focus on a perceived neoconservative influence on American foreign policy, as part of the Bush Doctrine.[11]</div></div>
Bush had a Republican label. He was not a conservative.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first major neoconservative to embrace the term, Irving Kristol, was considered a founder of the neoconservative movement. Kristol wrote of his neoconservative views in the 1979 article "Confessions of a True, Self-Confessed 'Neoconservative.'"[5] His ideas have been influential since the 1950s, when he co-founded and edited Encounter magazine.[12] Another source was Norman Podhoretz, editor of Commentary magazine from 1960 to 1995. By 1982 Podhoretz was calling himself a neoconservative, in a New York Times Magazine article titled "The Neoconservative Anguish over Reagan's Foreign Policy".[13][14] Kristol's son, William Kristol, founded the neoconservative Project for the New American Century.</div></div>

A courtesy would be in the proper labeling of your adversaries.

It could also focus your terms, argument and logic.

But, we know this is a Logic Free Zone.

cushioncrawler
04-10-2010, 05:06 PM
The first prezident of Glenbeckistan.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg92/sikdef/taliban.jpg
Founding fathers of Glenbeckistan.
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo249/majormadness21/taliban.jpg
Main speaker at a Taliban-Party rally (minus glasses)
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm319/Dogshow447/Taliban.jpg

hondo
04-10-2010, 07:01 PM
LMFAO!

wolfdancer
04-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Robert Ruark wrote "Something of Value"....unfortunately, what you write is..... "Nothing of value"....so you'll have to excuse Hondo, for opting to read the comics section of the paper, instead of your posts,, as a "Moma San" once told me "same, same"......I have worked out a deal with him....if I ever see you post anything of substance, instead of twisting things around...would that be considered substance abuse?... I was going to alert him.
To date, the alert level is at zero

wolfdancer
04-10-2010, 08:51 PM
Who dat? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1DDgNCLD84)

moblsv
04-11-2010, 07:49 AM
Welcome to my world /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Global Warming is a Conspiracy Resolution
http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/hbillamd/hjr012.htm (must be read to believe it actually exists)

"... until a full and independent investigation of the climate data conspiracy and global warming science can be substantiated."

conspiracy? what a bunch of loons!!!

We have Right-Wingers spending our tax money on law suits they know will fail just to pander to their crazy base. They are challenging Utah's right to violate Federal Gun Laws, Challenging the Health Care Reform Bill, Climate Change ... All while cutting education because of lack of funding.

This place is a Republican Mad House wrapped in a Mormon Church echo chamber.

moblsv
04-11-2010, 07:52 AM
Manifesto of an Estranged Republican - Ray Matthews Facebook page yesterday

When I was a boy my Dad warned me never to talk to people about two things: politics and religion. He said that people are set in their ways and opinions and the only thing that comes of it is argument. Being a child of the 60s, though, I felt compelled to violate both strictures.

Though not activists, my family does come from a long line of Republicans that trace their lineage back to Lincoln. My siblings, parents, grand-parents, and every cousin that I know have been proud Republicans. There was nary a Democrat among them. My first honk-and-wave was for Goldwater. My first presidential votes were cast for Nixon and then later for Ford. I left the country for a couple of years to convince people to change their religion to mine. When I returned, someone I had never heard of, Jimmy Carter, was president. I promptly went to work to get my guy, Ronald Reagan, elected. I proudly served as a Republican state delegate and RNC supporter. Through the years I've supported Bob Bennett, Mike Leavitt, Olene Walker, and Jon Huntsman, Jr, and was the Republican voting district chair and state delegate for my precinct 4654 as recently as 2004-06.

I have considered myself somewhat open-minded and in every election, at least since 1986, I have voted for Democrats when they were clearly the more qualified candidates. The tradition of Republican politics, though, still coursed through my veins.

My Republican party, the party of Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower is no more. It's been infiltrated and now taken over by rabid, radical extremists. These are the folks who once were only on the fringe of the party -- the Ku Klux Klanners of the 1920s and the John Birchers of the 1950s. Now these types control the party. They require, in some places, loyalty oaths and lock-step support of creeds.

Abraham Lincoln was cast out of Congress for being the Whig anti-war leader of his day. He helped form a new party, the Republican party. He was then reviled by Southerners for freeing blacks from the bondage of slavery. He is now and has been revered by generations for representing unity of nation over defeated notions of state rights. Abraham Lincoln would not be welcome in the Republican party of today.

Teddy Roosevelt, his GOP compatriot on Mount Rushmore, championed wages for the working man and the setting aside of vast areas of wilderness preserved from the spoilage of developers. Teddy Rooselvelt would not be welcome in the Republican party of today.

My political tradition is one of a belief and hope in the goodness of man. Lincoln taught me that; Reagan taught me that. It's all changed now. I feel no longer welcome in the Republican party. I am estranged. I have not left the Republican party; the Republican party has left me.

At the same time, the Democrats, at least here in Utah, have become the party of inclusiveness, the party of reason, the party of moral probity, the party of open and honest caucus, and the party of fiscal responsibility.

Peter Corroon, the new leader of Utah Democrats exemplifies all of those virtues. Cher and I have known Peter and Amy before he entered politics. I can assure you that the man you see in the public square is the real deal. If it can be asked where is he that is without guile, then look no further than to Peter. He is the rock and the foundation upon which a new generation of fair and open government for all of Utah will prosper. Scott M. Matheson, when he stepped down from being Governor of Utah in 1985, said, "We stay only for a moment, then we're gone. While we're here, we should do what we can to protect the past and secure the future." Peter is at the vanguard of a new generation of Democrats to heed that call.

Though most of my personal friends are and I'm sure will remain Republicans, I have found a new home. I feel with the Democrats a new freedom -- a freedom to be my own person, a freedom to keep and cherish my own thoughts, and a freedom to contribute to my state and my community that which I can offer, without reproach and without censor.

So it is, with a great deal of soul searching, I, Ray Matthews, announce to the world that on next Saturday, April 17, I will officially and in the company of my wife and neighbors in precinct 4654 become, heaven forbid, a Democrat.

LWW
04-11-2010, 08:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: moblsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welcome to my world /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Global Warming is a Conspiracy Resolution
http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/hbillamd/hjr012.htm (must be read to believe it actually exists)

"... until a full and independent investigation of the climate data conspiracy and global warming science can be substantiated."

conspiracy? what a bunch of loons!!!</div></div>

Does your internet not use the google?

Are you unaware of the UEA/GISS conspiracy?

LWW

Gayle in MD
04-11-2010, 09:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: moblsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welcome to my world /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Global Warming is a Conspiracy Resolution
http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/hbillamd/hjr012.htm (must be read to believe it actually exists)

"... until a full and independent investigation of the climate data conspiracy and global warming science can be substantiated."

conspiracy? what a bunch of loons!!!

We have Right-Wingers spending our tax money on law suits they know will fail just to pander to their crazy base. They are challenging Utah's right to violate Federal Gun Laws, Challenging the Health Care Reform Bill, Climate Change ... All while cutting education because of lack of funding.

This place is a Republican Mad House wrapped in a Mormon Church echo chamber.

</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This place is a Republican Mad House wrapped in a Mormon Church echo chamber.
</div></div>

LMAO!!!! If that weren't so true it would really be funny!

Loons is right! The more they put their mugs in front of the cameras, the nuttier they sound!

One in five Americans are supposed to be mentally ill. No coincidence, that one in five say they are Republican.

Books are their enemy! Need I say more?

G.

Gayle in MD
04-11-2010, 09:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: moblsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manifesto of an Estranged Republican - Ray Matthews Facebook page yesterday

When I was a boy my Dad warned me never to talk to people about two things: politics and religion. He said that people are set in their ways and opinions and the only thing that comes of it is argument. Being a child of the 60s, though, I felt compelled to violate both strictures.

Though not activists, my family does come from a long line of Republicans that trace their lineage back to Lincoln. My siblings, parents, grand-parents, and every cousin that I know have been proud Republicans. There was nary a Democrat among them. My first honk-and-wave was for Goldwater. My first presidential votes were cast for Nixon and then later for Ford. I left the country for a couple of years to convince people to change their religion to mine. When I returned, someone I had never heard of, Jimmy Carter, was president. I promptly went to work to get my guy, Ronald Reagan, elected. I proudly served as a Republican state delegate and RNC supporter. Through the years I've supported Bob Bennett, Mike Leavitt, Olene Walker, and Jon Huntsman, Jr, and was the Republican voting district chair and state delegate for my precinct 4654 as recently as 2004-06.

I have considered myself somewhat open-minded and in every election, at least since 1986, I have voted for Democrats when they were clearly the more qualified candidates. The tradition of Republican politics, though, still coursed through my veins.

My Republican party, the party of Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower is no more. It's been infiltrated and now taken over by rabid, radical extremists. These are the folks who once were only on the fringe of the party -- the Ku Klux Klanners of the 1920s and the John Birchers of the 1950s. Now these types control the party. They require, in some places, loyalty oaths and lock-step support of creeds.

Abraham Lincoln was cast out of Congress for being the Whig anti-war leader of his day. He helped form a new party, the Republican party. He was then reviled by Southerners for freeing blacks from the bondage of slavery. He is now and has been revered by generations for representing unity of nation over defeated notions of state rights. Abraham Lincoln would not be welcome in the Republican party of today.

Teddy Roosevelt, his GOP compatriot on Mount Rushmore, championed wages for the working man and the setting aside of vast areas of wilderness preserved from the spoilage of developers. Teddy Rooselvelt would not be welcome in the Republican party of today.

My political tradition is one of a belief and hope in the goodness of man. Lincoln taught me that; Reagan taught me that. It's all changed now. I feel no longer welcome in the Republican party. I am estranged. I have not left the Republican party; the Republican party has left me.

At the same time, the Democrats, at least here in Utah, have become the party of inclusiveness, the party of reason, the party of moral probity, the party of open and honest caucus, and the party of fiscal responsibility.

Peter Corroon, the new leader of Utah Democrats exemplifies all of those virtues. Cher and I have known Peter and Amy before he entered politics. I can assure you that the man you see in the public square is the real deal. If it can be asked where is he that is without guile, then look no further than to Peter. He is the rock and the foundation upon which a new generation of fair and open government for all of Utah will prosper. Scott M. Matheson, when he stepped down from being Governor of Utah in 1985, said, "We stay only for a moment, then we're gone. While we're here, we should do what we can to protect the past and secure the future." Peter is at the vanguard of a new generation of Democrats to heed that call.

Though most of my personal friends are and I'm sure will remain Republicans, I have found a new home. I feel with the Democrats a new freedom -- a freedom to be my own person, a freedom to keep and cherish my own thoughts, and a freedom to contribute to my state and my community that which I can offer, without reproach and without censor.

So it is, with a great deal of soul searching, I, Ray Matthews, announce to the world that on next Saturday, April 17, I will officially and in the company of my wife and neighbors in precinct 4654 become, heaven forbid, a Democrat. </div></div>

I have no doubt that if Barry Goldwater were alive today, he would not be a Republican! John Dean was the best friend of Barry Goldwater's son, they went to college together, were both helping Goldwater write his autobiography. It was an all out attack on what had become of the Republican Party, their policies, their lies, their spending, and their growing of the government.

Today, it's far worse than even when he passed away. He was completely against the blurring of the line between church and state, which the Republican party has used to gain numbers, in the same way i which they used racism.

Crooks in disguise, with supporters too stupid to see through them.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

pooltchr
04-11-2010, 09:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Loons is right! The more they put their mugs in front of the cameras, the nuttier they sound!


G. </div></div>

You mean like that Republican guy who said on camera that the constitution didn't matter to him? Oh, wait! That wasn't a republican!

You mean like Nancy saying we have to pass a bill in order to find out what is in it? Oops, my ban...that was another democrat!

Shall I continue?

Steve