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JJFSTAR
04-07-2010, 09:41 AM
So here is a somewhat complex situation. I am the captain of a pool team and have been since 1994. This season I put one of my players in the position of co-captain (one of my former students). I told him that he is now in charge of personnel; he was to see to it that there were 5 warm bodies there on Tuesday (that is the min number of required players in order not to forfeit games). So this season one of our players started an accelerated nursing school program; that dropped us to 5. In week 7 another one of our players had a 10ft ladder collapse under him at work that ruptured his spleen and fractured his pelvis in 3 places.

So I talked to the league operators and explained the situation. They are of the opinion that I should have had more players on my roster to allow for such contingencies (I think to myself “no kidding”). They also feel that I should continue playing (with my 4 players forfeiting 5 games every night and forfeiting 10 games every match in the playoffs). One of the reasons they site is that I am personally in the running to go to the “best player” tournament for the season.

I know this to be a hopeless attempt given the level of competition in the West Penn Pool League. So what I asked the league to do is charge us for the 7 weeks that we did play and for them to go ahead and keep the bar fee and credit us the rest of the entry fees toward next season. They say that if one bought tickets to Disneyland and left 2 hours later that you couldn’t ask for your money back and if you did there is no way they would give it to you. I view it as if you went in on a package at Disneyland with a minimum of 5 people and after half the day one of the 5 of you in the parking lot fell and ruptured his spleen and fractured his hip and had to go to the hospital that Disneyland should issue you a “rain check” and let you in for half the price after the injured person is healthy enough to finish the Disneyland tour with the group. I think this perfectly reasonable seeing as this group has been on the same tour for 16 years.

I think the “oh well it’s not our fault your guy got injured; sorry no refunds, you should have had someone else lined up to allow for such situations” stance is a pretty hard line to take after such a long relationship. My proposed scenario does this; it keeps the bar fees for both seasons for the league. It refunds the player fees only in terms of entry into next season as half. So the only thing that the league is loosing is half the player fees for one season that a team for the previous season is not entitled to any prize money for. In effect the league is getting about 1.6x the total money paid for 2 seasons for a team that only played ½ a season and is not entitled to any prize money for 1 season.

I say that I am relinquishing my captain’s seat and passing the torch to anyone else on my team willing to take it. What that probably means is the end of the team. I can’t seem to understand why a league would just want to have a team disappear forever just to gain $87.50. When they could retain the team and get $250-$285 for every season that we remain in the league. We have already played for 16 years that’s 32 seasons it is reasonable to assume given the relative age of our players that we would play for another 10-15 years. Granted this is not revenue because we are a winning team and take lots of prize money quite often but it is still cash flow that over the course of time is in the $1000’s.

I don’t want to disappoint my team and I have no ill feelings toward the league but for me I am thinking that my time of getting players together, dealing with team finances, keeping and reporting scores is over. It hasn’t helped my game in a number of years, in fact it is holding back some of my potential advancement. There are other leagues and other teams that have been asking me to join them for years. I believe this is my opportunity to “move on”. I hope I have been clear and I have never been concise so sorry for the wordy explanation. So what do you all think I should do?

Bambu
04-07-2010, 10:41 AM
Why should the league change their rules just for you? When you run a team with no subs, you know the risks involved. If it's only $87.50 they want, just give it to them.

JJFSTAR
04-07-2010, 11:48 AM
It is not that I am asking for a rule change this kind of thing happened before. The previous owner let me drop after 3 weeks and let me pay for those 3 weeks. There is no “rule” to cover this kind of thing it’s discretionary. However I highly value your input. As the post says “Am I wrong?” I am perfectly willing to accept that I may be the one looking at it bass-akwards. That is the whole reason for the post.

JJFSTAR
04-07-2010, 11:53 AM
Another thing is that yes I know the risks involved with no subs, the whole reason I named a co-captain is that I was no longer willing to call everyone up and tell them that it’s Tuesday. This was the result of that; unless I do it it isn’t going to get done, more proof that it is time for me to move on.

Bambu
04-07-2010, 01:29 PM
I dont think you have it backwards, you make some valid points. But the new owner has nothing to do with the old. New owner, new guy calling the shots. Fair or not, theres not much you can do about it.

If it was up to him to get bodies, it looks like your co-captain just didnt come through. I quit playing in leagues because of trivial stuff like this. It seems nothing gets organized unless you do it yourself, and doing it yourself just isnt worth it.

Pacifist
04-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Personally I would pay the money and finish the year with four players. The next year I would join a different league as just a player not a captain. I would also try to find a league that benefitted my game more. I stopped playing bar leagues and switched to BCA leagues because the bar players around here simply don't have the right mentality and I wasn't gaining anything from that league. Now that I play in the BCA league I get to employ safety play and I get to play in a much more competetive environment both of which are good for my game.

JoeW
04-07-2010, 05:13 PM
If they change the rules for you, they have to change rules for the next situation. Think about it from the operator's position and adjusting every time some one has a new "good" reason for accepting their extentuating circumstances. Soon the rules will mean nothing and the whole league will be complaining about all sorts of things.

I think that you need to carefully consider both positions. Adjusting given rules is fraught with all kinds of problems.

You may have had enough of the problems associated with league play but the operator acted in the best interest of the league.

The league operator has to give the answer that he would give as though every player in the league were in the room. Whatever decision he made would then have to apply to any similar situation. When thought of in this way perhaps you can see the inherent problems.

Fran Crimi
04-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Unfortunately, the one who started the accelerated nursing school program isn't an emergency. I think if you had two emergency situations, then you would be justified with your request. However, with only one out of two I think you would be hard-pressed to win your case. I, like you, agree that there are exceptional situations sometimes and that if we were made of stone it would be one thing... but we're not.

You also might want to think about not placing blame on your co-captain. You're all in it together, regardless of the roles each person plays.

Maybe you ought to consider whether or not you're a league-type person. I admit that I'm not. It doesn't work for me. I prefer tournament play for myself. I'm not knocking league-play at all. It's just not for me.

Fran

Sid_Vicious
04-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Why don't you do some scrambling and find 1 or 2 players to add? Is there a deadline already passed to not permit it at this juncture? That's what I'd try to do first. I can see your logic in the arithmetic, plus the compassionate features of your injured player. The one going to school put you on the edge with only 5 players, so THAT should have been a time to look for additional players pronto, even lower skilled players who'd likely enjoy mingling with your talented group.

I'd be financially smart about continuing with only 4 players for the remainder of the season. Firstly, you'll still be responsible for paying for a fifth player for all those weeks, and almost certainly not have a change to recoup it in weeks won with only four. Besides, the enthusiasm level to even show up knowing you are playing short, will suck.

Yea, you certainly have very valid points to make, but in the general league systems of pool, sadly, there are many times, no cares returned by many LDs. In fact, league directors around here many times skate with the prize monies at season's end anyway. Pool still has it's ugly-side, and in your case, borderline heartless-side to it.

If it ain't gonna be any fun, and it's going to cost money for a phantom 5th player, with little chance for team victories at all, I say "walk away." That's the only power you really have over the situation at this point, unless you can add in a player or two quick. sid

KellyStick
04-21-2010, 11:19 AM
yes