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Pacifist
04-07-2010, 03:15 PM
I haven't used any aiming systems or methods of compensating for squirt and other factors for a long time. I simply focus on the point of the object ball I wish to contact and let my subconscious take care of the rest. I read about all kinds of methods of compensating but it is just easier to let my brain do the work. I usually only miss shots do to a mental error or being lax in my pre-shot routine. If I focus on the point on the object ball I want to hit, the cueball hits there regardless of english or distance. I was just wondering if anyone else aimed liked this.

Jager85
04-07-2010, 04:16 PM
I used to do this. I let my experience and muscle memory suffice for compensations. A colleague of mine noticed this and suggested I setup the shot first and then compensate. Now I kind of mix the two. On shots I have shot hundreds of times, I will let my subconscious think for me, while on more difficult or rare shots I will setup and then compensate. In order to really see the difference in one over the other, I would have to completely switch to one for a while and then back.

I miss shots using both methods and usually blame it on stroke or mentality, but this still could be a cause. On tournament match I lost against a local house pro on hill-hill, I missed a shot that I have missed a thousand times by missing due to english induced throw. On that particular shot I wish I had setup up and then compensated.

Since I mainly use compensation for more difficult shots or shots I don't see often, it usually seems to be mental and a confidence issue with the shot.

I am no pro and nowhere close, so my advice may be meaningless, but hope it helps.

pooltchr
04-07-2010, 05:02 PM
I think the more experienced you become as a player, the more those adjustments become subconscious. When we are learning anything, we have to focus on the details. The more we do it, the more natural everything becomes.

Beginners rarely get into the "zone", because they aren't experienced enough to let the subconscious take over.

Steve

Fran Crimi
04-08-2010, 05:03 AM
In essence, what you are doing is trusting your sub-conscious mind to do what you have trained it to do. Nothing at all wrong with that. The only thing you should keep in mind is that the sub-conscious mind does not make judgements or know right from wrong. It only knows what it's taught. So you just have to be on guard about allowing little bad habits to creep in and become part of your sub-conscious routine.

I recommend that you check yourself once in awhile in practice by doing everything completely conscious, as you wrote...review your thought process and pre shot routine so bad habits don't creep in.

Bambu
04-08-2010, 07:07 AM
This is by far my favorite aiming system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8&playnext_from=TL&videos=jsFhAft9mdc

Precision squirt compensation at its best. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Coroner
04-08-2010, 11:49 AM
I used to have a lot of trouble aiming with English until I was told to set up and aim at the OB using the same offset as my offset hitting the CB. So, if I am using one tip right English, then I set up and aim to hit the OB one tip right English from where I would aim using a center ball hit. It seems to work and I have gotten to where I can make some pretty long and difficult shots using English, but still not as good as using center ball hit. I don't know why it works, but it does. The only excepttion is using a lot of English on a slower hit, then I have to make some "mental" adjustment from my normal English set up or I will end up overcutting the shot. My two cents, worth what you paid for it.

dr_dave
04-08-2010, 02:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pacifist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't used any aiming systems or methods of compensating for squirt and other factors for a long time. I simply focus on the point of the object ball I wish to contact and let my subconscious take care of the rest. I read about all kinds of methods of compensating but it is just easier to let my brain do the work. I usually only miss shots do to a mental error or being lax in my pre-shot routine. If I focus on the point on the object ball I want to hit, the cueball hits there regardless of english or distance. I was just wondering if anyone else aimed liked this. </div></div>I think many people, especially most experienced and successful players, compensate for English effects by "feel." For people who don't have perfect judgment, it helps to know and understand all of the effects and how they vary from one shot to another. FYI, I have links to some good resources (videos, articles, lists) on this topic here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#compensation
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#English_effects

Regards,
Dave

Fran Crimi
04-08-2010, 03:46 PM
LOVE IT. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Qtec
04-08-2010, 06:09 PM
Just about every good player.

Qtec

bradb
04-12-2010, 10:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pacifist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't used any aiming systems or methods of compensating for squirt and other factors for a long time. I simply focus on the point of the object ball I wish to contact and let my subconscious take care of the rest. I read about all kinds of methods of compensating but it is just easier to let my brain do the work. I usually only miss shots do to a mental error or being lax in my pre-shot routine. If I focus on the point on the object ball I want to hit, the cueball hits there regardless of english or distance. I was just wondering if anyone else aimed liked this. </div></div>

I think for us non pro players who have learned to play by practice, teaching and many years of play, its good to go back over the finer points of the game and keep our game fine-tuned. I know I have kicked myself many times after screwing up a tough shot because I threw it off line and think "dammit, I knew better then to do that!" So I work on it in practice.

However for myself anyway, I do find if I dwell on it too much it throws me off and I lose my feel of the game, I find I play best with nothing on my mind but stroke and position.

For the prodigies of the game... players who are born with the talent, it just comes natural to them, they were running the table when they were 6 years old. I have met some top players who don't even get in to all the terminology.... they shoot from instinct, they just know what the ball is going to do.

-Brad

doncartmill
04-15-2010, 02:36 PM
I find that using outside english ,which I always shot growing up
( never realizing that squirt was taking place), I still shoot by feel/sense...no thought to compensating. I do check myself when shooting inside english. Once having discovered (wow)the cue ball moves quite a bit ( then discovering the pivot point theory) has given me something solid with which to work,where no feel existed,on inside english. In the last 3-4 years I religated a significant portion of my practice time to developing my approach to inside english. It is becomming more natural everyday. The pivot point,however, is what enables me. to check myself when shooting inside english.

KellyStick
04-21-2010, 11:16 AM
I've always had a decent eye for a basic no frill shot and the general ability to put the CB where I am aiming. I played for years just feeling where to hit the ball. I never made any sort of conscious effort to deal with squirt for example. In fact I did not know anything about it. After shooting for several years and as a 5 in APA I learned about squirt and the adjustments that might be needed. This made no sense to me until I happened to notice myself make a subconscious adjustment for it. I was lining up a normal shot, then made a change to add some english and I saw myself adjust for this. I don't know how I learned that other than just OJT. It was fascinating to see myself do something that I was not at all aware I had been doing. To this day I don't even think about it and I don't want to start thinking about.

cushioncrawler
04-21-2010, 03:24 PM
I asked my snooker mate whether he kompensated for less throw, ie the Oball goze narrower if u stun, wider if u hit harder. He sayd he didnt know about any of that stuff, and he didnt kompensate knowingly. He sayd he just knew how to get the ball in the hole, throo years of praktis.
I asked him if he uzed pivot point and pivot length. He didnt know theze terms, and anyhow the answer woz in the negativ.
I asked him how he aimed, ie how he aligned the cue, ie what sort of things he thort of etc to aim. He says he didnt line up anything.
I thort it best not to say any more about theze things, mightbe one day i will.
He coaches.
He haz won a world title.
He eliminated Ding.
madMac.

doncartmill
04-24-2010, 09:01 PM
That is exactly what I was saying with re to myself shooting outside english...it was a learned response and I was completely unaware of any compensation. For some reason ,in my earlier game I just did not shoot inside english. When I attempted it with any significant cut,I nearly always missed badly ( farther strengthening my unspoken/thought to stay with outside english ) So finally way down the road, the new found knowledge Re pivot point,squirt,etc,allowed me something solid to work with, as I developed/still developing feel for the inside english. I don't think about my outside english...just lock and load.

JoeW
04-25-2010, 05:18 PM
Pool is a form of relaxation for some people and a challenge for other people. If the intent is to relax then why take the time to learn about the game? If it is a challenge then one wants to know everything about the game and then learn how to train one's mind and body to accomplish the impossible.

For some people pool playing can be a relaxing challenge. That is, the goal is proficiency in a sport that has no significant impact on one's life other than the self challenge to be as good as one can be.

Hence there will be many opinions about what is or is not important.

JJFSTAR
04-26-2010, 12:03 PM
I have found over the years that people vary greatly in their “natural awareness of where to hit the ball” (to put it in the pocket). There are people with “0” awareness of where to hit the ball; as well as those with a “great” awareness of where to hit the ball. Aiming methods do wonders for people with very poor or fair awareness and little for people in the “great” category.

I don’t have any scientific data just lots of experience with both. I think it is something you are born with a random amount of. Wish I had more of it; I believe that the amount you have is the biggest determining factor of how far your best possible game will take you.

Bottom line is that “put it in the hole” will work wonderfully for the folks that have good or great “natural awareness of where to hit the ball”. But it will leave the poor and fair folks with an inability to string together a 3 ball out. That would be a shame because with aiming methods I have been able to teach them how to run a table eventually. Now with the “gifted” all you have to do is teach them the simple underlying physics and they are running tables in 5 or 6 months. As I say this has just been my experience.

cushioncrawler
04-26-2010, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... Now with the “gifted” all you have to do is teach them the simple underlying physics and they are running tables in 5 or 6 months. As I say this has just been my experience.</div></div>I reckon i hav gone up a grade with my potting since learning about the varyable ball'to'ball friktion etc, from Dr Dave & Co.
madMac.

JoeW
04-27-2010, 07:44 AM
"I reckon i hav gone up a grade with my potting since learning about the varyable ball'to'ball friktion etc, from Dr Dave & Co."

madMac.

Ahh, and for me that is the beauty of playing pool, those small incremental improvements that, over time, lead to advanced play.

Unfortunately, at my age, there isn't alot of time left for the amount of improvement required. None-the-less the "game" is beautiful.

I understand that Mark Twain played for about four hours a day during his retirement years. Seems that others too appreciate the game.

pooltchr
04-27-2010, 08:13 AM
[quote=JoeW

Unfortunately, at my age, there isn't alot of time left for the amount of improvement required.
[/quote]

Joe, improvement is not a goal to be achieved....it is a journey to be enjoyed!

Steve

JoeW
04-27-2010, 09:02 AM
"it is a journey to be enjoyed." Steve

Well stated sir. Thanks

hondo
04-28-2010, 04:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is by far my favorite aiming system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8&playnext_from=TL&videos=jsFhAft9mdc

Precision squirt compensation at its best. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
</div></div>


Now I know what my problem's been. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

hondo
04-28-2010, 04:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I asked my snooker mate whether he kompensated for less throw, ie the Oball goze narrower if u stun, wider if u hit harder. He sayd he didnt know about any of that stuff, and he didnt kompensate knowingly. He sayd he just knew how to get the ball in the hole, throo years of praktis.
I asked him if he uzed pivot point and pivot length. He didnt know theze terms, and anyhow the answer woz in the negativ.
I asked him how he aimed, ie how he aligned the cue, ie what sort of things he thort of etc to aim. He says he didnt line up anything.
I thort it best not to say any more about theze things, mightbe one day i will.
He coaches.
He haz won a world title.
He eliminated Ding.
madMac. </div></div>

CC, I played for years and never knew any of those terms til
I started reading the pool forums.
I thought squirt was the short guy I shot with.