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hondo
04-08-2010, 10:03 PM
Capitalism
The Rise of Conservative Fascism

Ital*ian and Ger*man fas*cist move*ments blos*somed dur*ing the col*lapse of their lib*eral cap*i*tal*ist states. Both national move*ments came to power explic*itly on anti-communist and anti-socialist slo*gans. Something similar is happening here.
There are very real prob*lems with the Tea Party. The com*mon dis*sat*is*fac*tion with Obama always seems hung on phrases that sug*gest vio*lence. There is more xeno*pho*bia than con*spir*acy the*ory in the birther vit*riol.

At the Nashville con*fer*ence, impor*tant Repub*li*can dem*a*gogues such as Tom Tan*credo and Sarah Palin were crowd favorites. Their style of charis*matic, car*toon*ish patri*o*tism make them lead*ing polit*i*cal fig*ures in what could become a newly indige*nous Amer*i*can fascism.

In his book The Anatomy of Fas*cism, Robert Pax*ton notes that Ital*ian and Ger*man fas*cist move*ments blos*somed dur*ing the col*lapse of their respec*tive lib*eral cap*i*tal*ist states, and that both national move*ments came to power explic*itly on anti-communist and anti-socialist slo*gans.

They directed pop*u*lar enthu*si*asm into dic*ta*tor*ships against the left, and mobi*lized pas*sions already inflamed by the col*lapse of those cap*i*tal*ist economies.

Crowds formed in order to inflict and threaten vio*lence against spe*cific tar*gets, and legit*i*mated it by simul*ta*ne*ously vic*tim*iz*ing them*selves and claim*ing ‘chosen-people’ sta*tus.

The move*ment worked as an “anti-political pol*i*tics,” or a pol*i*tics that sought to use demo*c*ra*tic tech*niques and extra-legal vio*lence to destroy ene*mies of the peo*ple.

Noam Chom*sky uses sim*i*lar lan*guage to describe the fanatic anti-political, anti-government per*spec*tive of Tim*o*thy McVeigh, the Okla*homa City bomber.

What dis*tin*guishes the Tea Party thus far from these ear*lier fas*cisms is its fail*ure, thus far, to explic*itly self-identify as a racist move*ment, or as a group itself vic*tim*ized by an enemy.

The vague idea of lib*er*als or big gov*ern*ment isn’t con*crete enough to stir vio*lence against groups, only insti*tu*tions — like the IRS or the Pen*ta*gon or any fed*eral agency.

The fact that it is a white move*ment with some racists within it doesn’t make it a racist move*ment — not yet.

Instead, angry whites dom*i*nate the group with*out ele*vat*ing their white*ness as a con*di*tion of belong*ing.

If it is racist, then, it advo*cates a weird kind of white power that other races are free to join.

It has also failed to iden*tify another “iden*tity” group it holds pri*mar*ily respon*si*ble for its prob*lems. They rally against Mex*i*can immi*gra*tion with*out explic*itly express*ing dis*gust with Mex*i*cans them*selves.

Tea Partiers have an obvi*ous prob*lem with “rad*i*cal Islam,” but they aren’t orga*niz*ing vio*lence against Muslim-Americans. Dif*fer*ent parts of the Tea Party seem angry at dif*fer*ent ene*mies, and they project onto Obama a syn*thetic car*i*ca*ture of their fears. Even stranger, the Tea Party’s appeal as a fas*cist party has been clar*i*fied by its avowed dec*la*ra*tion that Obama is a total*i*tar*ian, social*ist, com*mu*nist, and finally fas*cist dic*ta*tor. It appears at times to be the very move*ment it pro*claims to orga*nize against.

The Tea Party is not yet the depend*able vehi*cle of any coher*ent fas*cist pol*icy, then, even as the politi*cians asso*ci*ated with it chan*nel its emo*tions into threats of vio*lence. Tea Party can*di*date for Texas gov*er*nor, Debra Med*ina, was reported not to advo*cate “blood*shed” her*self but rather to invoke it as “inevitable” if the con*sti*tu*tion isn’t prop*erly defended. In a stun*ning admis*sion, she also told Glen Beck that she believed there were “good ques*tions” about the role the Bush admin*is*tra*tion may have played in 9/11, and that the Amer*i*can peo*ple had not “seen all the evi*dence.” Her can*di*dacy attracted atten*tion and pos*i*tive cov*er*age from read*ers and lis*ten*ers of Alex Jones’ “Prison Planet” and “Infowars” web*sites and radio shows. His pop*u*lar*ity has also recently reached new heights; he was inter*viewed on the Ger*aldo Rivera’s FOX news pro*gram after the media tried to link John Patrick Bedell, the so-called Pen*ta*gon shooter, with the 9 – 11 truth move*ment. Jones is the lead*ing Amer*i*can skep*tic of the 9/11 com*mis*sion and, what*ever his excesses and para*noia about issues like global warm*ing, he is per*haps the most inter*est*ing fig*ure in alter*na*tive media for bridg*ing pro*gres*sive and Tea Party pol*i*tics together. He is also the great*est ben*e*fi*ciary of the main*stream media’s descent into cor*po*rate cen*sor*ship, for bet*ter or worse.

But at this stage of its ascen*sion, the movement’s fail*ure to find a sus*tain*able tar*get for its anger has weak*ened the Tea Party. It will need a com*mon enemy for the fas*cist wing to suc*ceed and grow. This enemy can*not be Obama indef*i*nitely. Still, their abject hatred of him is the clos*est the coun*try has seen to a lynch-mob men*tal*ity in decades. Forty years ago, this same aggres*sion would have led to open vio*lence against African-Americans, espe*cially in the south.

At the moment when exec*u*tive power has never appeared stronger, a fas*cist wing of a pop*ulist move*ment has emerged because there is actu*ally a power vac*uum in the demo*c*ra*tic machin*ery of this coun*try.

Fas*cist sen*ti*ments arise when gov*ern*ment isn’t work*ing. And if it con*tin*ues not to work, one way or another there will be blood.


tags: tea party fascsim liberal capitalism conservative sarah palin




comments?

hondo
04-08-2010, 10:04 PM
politicalleft.blog-city.com

ugotda7
04-09-2010, 06:16 AM
A Liberal Guide to Debating Conservatives
Mar 31, 2010 Author Scot Cerullo

Liberals have long since learned that debating Conservatives can be a challenging endeavor, since Conservatives have a penchant for fortifying their arguments with facts, statistics, history and other elements that create convincing and thoughtful arguments.

Not to worry. The following are several tips Liberals can use right away to begin defeating Conservatives in every debate, every time.

Lib Tip # 1: Drop the Race Card: The moment your Conservative opponent begins crafting a cogent, air-tight argument buttressed in fact, drop the race card. This technique is designed to stifle further discussion, impugns your opponent and puts him on the defensive. Often, this is enough of a distraction to direct attention away from your lack of qualitative, quantitative evidence.

Lib Tip # 2: Impugn the Source: When debating a Conservative, content is less important than character. When your Conservative opponent states a compelling argument, do not address the argument and instead attack the Conservative personally. Since we are all sinners, it shouldn’t take long to find something wrong with your opponent. Use it.

Lib Tip # 3: Social Justice Trumps Logic: Argue every issue from a “Social Justice” or “Moral” high-ground. The Conservative will attempt to show that your ideas are unworkable, unsustainable or downright illogical. Don’t worry about any of that. Just stay on message by arguing from the moral, social justice perspective.

Lib Tip # 4: Exploit the Weakest Link: Define your opponent by his weakest link. If 10,000 Tea Partiers hold a rally, and one guy has a placard that is inappropriate, that is all you need to characterize the entire group as radical, racist militants. See how that works? It’s simple and fun and, most importantly, deflects all those awkward facts and articulate points away from the discussion and leaves the Conservative in a defensive mode.

Lib Tip # 5: Use “New Speak”: If health care is not a right according to the Constitution, and you want it to be a right, claim it is and then raise your voice. Raising your voice is always the best course of action in lieu of a good argument. Redefine words to suit your needs, and always be on guard for any stray, powerful fact or statistic the Conservative may use to support their position.

Lib Tip # 6: State the Opposite of what you believe: If you are in favor of taking money from producers and giving it to non-producers, that’s fine, but make sure your wording is a bit more obtuse than that. Try saying you are in favor of moral and social justice, and characterize everyone who earns a good living as somehow having won the lottery in life, and all those who want as being desperately hard-working folks who have an almost allergic reaction to hand-outs. Never imply or point out in any way that people can change their situation simply by making better decisions.

Lib Tip # 7: Define America by it’s Errors, not its Successes: Taking a cue from Lib Tip # 4, it is important to characterize America by it’s errors in judgement and misdeeds. It is critical that you completely overlook the good things America has done, and the manner in which it has beaten back one dictatorship after another. In fact, you must go to some lengths to divert people from the notion that without America, the world would be a far more dangerous, hostile, sad place. So talk about Indians and Slaves.

Lib Tip # 8: Blame talk radio and FOX news for fanning hate and racism: Avoid at all costs the fact that both talk radio and FOX news stand in defiant refutation of an otherwise fully agreeable media that presents only one template, a liberal template. Also, attempt to divert attention should someone ask why Conservative Talk Radio and FOX news is growing exponentially, while traditional, liberal media is closing offices, thinning their employees and running deficits like, you know, the government.

Lib Tip # 9: Government is Good: Insist that a massive expansion of government is a good thing. Assert that it is our patriotic duty to pay ever more in taxes so that a centralized government comprised of east and west coast Liberal elites can decide what is best for the unwashed masses, since it would be sheer lunacy to allow individuals the right to make decisions for themselves. If you run into problems, see Tips 1-8.

Lib Tip # 10: Assign Blame away from Yourself: Always assign blame to the other guy, preferably a Conservative. This may require rewriting history so that people may one day believe that Reagan did NOT usher in 25 years of prosperity, or it may require still more retooling of the content of public school text books. But over time we’ll get there.

Remember: The ends justify the means. No matter how cruel and violating the means may be, if it results in a mediocre society where all citizens ultimately suck off the the government for their most meager needs, it will all be worthwhile.

There is of course the small matter of where all the money for all these programs will come from. Right now, they come from spirited entrepreneurs, dreamers with drive and other people whose passion poses a direct threat to the new world we want to usher in.

But first things first. Learn the ten tips to squelch free speech, hurt your opponent with the intellectual equivelant of a kick to the groin and avoid facts, statistics and studies altogether, as those will get you in trouble.

Good luck Liberals! Battle on and remember what Dennis Prager said: The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen. Oh wait, no. You don’t want to remember that. My bad. Here, try this: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Yeah, that’s the one. Whew!

LWW
04-09-2010, 06:52 AM
Or whatever is put on the spoon for you that day.

Do yourself a favor, attend a tea party and see for yourself.

Wear a disguise so that the "THOUGHT POLICE" don't see you.

You can even deny your attendance here, but go.

Also, stop by the library and check out a copy of "1984" and read it. Find a section of your house where the state's cameras and spies can't see you ... and learn something.

LWW

Under
04-09-2010, 07:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or whatever is put on the spoon for you that day.

Do yourself a favor, attend a tea party and see for yourself.

Wear a disguise so that the "THOUGHT POLICE" don't see you.

You can even deny your attendance here, but go.

Also, stop by the library and check out a copy of "1984" and read it. Find a section of your house where the state's cameras and spies can't see you ... and learn something.
LWW </div></div>
Larry,
What a thoughtful suggestion. The education of a non classical liberal.
And, 1984 is old enough not to possibly include nasty new tea party nor conservative names.

Yes H. I will read it again also, and we can converse about the meanings.

JohnnyD
04-09-2010, 05:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capitalism
The Rise of Conservative Fascism

Ital*ian and Ger*man fas*cist move*ments blos*somed dur*ing the col*lapse of their lib*eral cap*i*tal*ist states. Both national move*ments came to power explic*itly on anti-communist and anti-socialist slo*gans. Something similar is happening here.
There are very real prob*lems with the Tea Party. The com*mon dis*sat*is*fac*tion with Obama always seems hung on phrases that sug*gest vio*lence. There is more xeno*pho*bia than con*spir*acy the*ory in the birther vit*riol.

At the Nashville con*fer*ence, impor*tant Repub*li*can dem*a*gogues such as Tom Tan*credo and Sarah Palin were crowd favorites. Their style of charis*matic, car*toon*ish patri*o*tism make them lead*ing polit*i*cal fig*ures in what could become a newly indige*nous Amer*i*can fascism.

In his book The Anatomy of Fas*cism, Robert Pax*ton notes that Ital*ian and Ger*man fas*cist move*ments blos*somed dur*ing the col*lapse of their respec*tive lib*eral cap*i*tal*ist states, and that both national move*ments came to power explic*itly on anti-communist and anti-socialist slo*gans.

They directed pop*u*lar enthu*si*asm into dic*ta*tor*ships against the left, and mobi*lized pas*sions already inflamed by the col*lapse of those cap*i*tal*ist economies.

Crowds formed in order to inflict and threaten vio*lence against spe*cific tar*gets, and legit*i*mated it by simul*ta*ne*ously vic*tim*iz*ing them*selves and claim*ing ‘chosen-people’ sta*tus.

The move*ment worked as an “anti-political pol*i*tics,” or a pol*i*tics that sought to use demo*c*ra*tic tech*niques and extra-legal vio*lence to destroy ene*mies of the peo*ple.

Noam Chom*sky uses sim*i*lar lan*guage to describe the fanatic anti-political, anti-government per*spec*tive of Tim*o*thy McVeigh, the Okla*homa City bomber.

What dis*tin*guishes the Tea Party thus far from these ear*lier fas*cisms is its fail*ure, thus far, to explic*itly self-identify as a racist move*ment, or as a group itself vic*tim*ized by an enemy.

The vague idea of lib*er*als or big gov*ern*ment isn’t con*crete enough to stir vio*lence against groups, only insti*tu*tions — like the IRS or the Pen*ta*gon or any fed*eral agency.

The fact that it is a white move*ment with some racists within it doesn’t make it a racist move*ment — not yet.

Instead, angry whites dom*i*nate the group with*out ele*vat*ing their white*ness as a con*di*tion of belong*ing.

If it is racist, then, it advo*cates a weird kind of white power that other races are free to join.

It has also failed to iden*tify another “iden*tity” group it holds pri*mar*ily respon*si*ble for its prob*lems. They rally against Mex*i*can immi*gra*tion with*out explic*itly express*ing dis*gust with Mex*i*cans them*selves.

Tea Partiers have an obvi*ous prob*lem with “rad*i*cal Islam,” but they aren’t orga*niz*ing vio*lence against Muslim-Americans. Dif*fer*ent parts of the Tea Party seem angry at dif*fer*ent ene*mies, and they project onto Obama a syn*thetic car*i*ca*ture of their fears. Even stranger, the Tea Party’s appeal as a fas*cist party has been clar*i*fied by its avowed dec*la*ra*tion that Obama is a total*i*tar*ian, social*ist, com*mu*nist, and finally fas*cist dic*ta*tor. It appears at times to be the very move*ment it pro*claims to orga*nize against.

The Tea Party is not yet the depend*able vehi*cle of any coher*ent fas*cist pol*icy, then, even as the politi*cians asso*ci*ated with it chan*nel its emo*tions into threats of vio*lence. Tea Party can*di*date for Texas gov*er*nor, Debra Med*ina, was reported not to advo*cate “blood*shed” her*self but rather to invoke it as “inevitable” if the con*sti*tu*tion isn’t prop*erly defended. In a stun*ning admis*sion, she also told Glen Beck that she believed there were “good ques*tions” about the role the Bush admin*is*tra*tion may have played in 9/11, and that the Amer*i*can peo*ple had not “seen all the evi*dence.” Her can*di*dacy attracted atten*tion and pos*i*tive cov*er*age from read*ers and lis*ten*ers of Alex Jones’ “Prison Planet” and “Infowars” web*sites and radio shows. His pop*u*lar*ity has also recently reached new heights; he was inter*viewed on the Ger*aldo Rivera’s FOX news pro*gram after the media tried to link John Patrick Bedell, the so-called Pen*ta*gon shooter, with the 9 – 11 truth move*ment. Jones is the lead*ing Amer*i*can skep*tic of the 9/11 com*mis*sion and, what*ever his excesses and para*noia about issues like global warm*ing, he is per*haps the most inter*est*ing fig*ure in alter*na*tive media for bridg*ing pro*gres*sive and Tea Party pol*i*tics together. He is also the great*est ben*e*fi*ciary of the main*stream media’s descent into cor*po*rate cen*sor*ship, for bet*ter or worse.

But at this stage of its ascen*sion, the movement’s fail*ure to find a sus*tain*able tar*get for its anger has weak*ened the Tea Party. It will need a com*mon enemy for the fas*cist wing to suc*ceed and grow. This enemy can*not be Obama indef*i*nitely. Still, their abject hatred of him is the clos*est the coun*try has seen to a lynch-mob men*tal*ity in decades. Forty years ago, this same aggres*sion would have led to open vio*lence against African-Americans, espe*cially in the south.

At the moment when exec*u*tive power has never appeared stronger, a fas*cist wing of a pop*ulist move*ment has emerged because there is actu*ally a power vac*uum in the demo*c*ra*tic machin*ery of this coun*try.

Fas*cist sen*ti*ments arise when gov*ern*ment isn’t work*ing. And if it con*tin*ues not to work, one way or another there will be blood.


tags: tea party fascsim liberal capitalism conservative sarah palin




comments?


</div></div>Hondo learn to think and comprehend.You can do it.If your half as smart as you always tell us you are you should have no problem.

cushioncrawler
04-09-2010, 06:48 PM
FBI suspected McVeigh link to White supremacists
The latest evidence obtained is the strongest to date to show that the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy may have involved more people than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, McVeigh's former lawyer says.

Associated Press/February 25, 2004

Washington -- The FBI believed Timothy McVeigh tried to recruit additional help in the days before the deadly 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and gathered evidence that White supremacist bank robbers may have become involved, according to government documents never introduced at McVeigh's trial.

The retired FBI chief of the Oklahoma City investigation, Dan Defenbaugh, said he was unaware of some evidence obtained by The Associated Press and that the investigation should be reopened to determine whether the robbery gang was linked to McVeigh.

The evidence never shared with Defenbaugh's investigators or defense lawyers includes documents showing the Aryan Republican Army bank robbers possessed explosive blasting caps similar to those McVeigh stole and a driver's license with the name of a central player who was robbed in the Oklahoma City plot.

"If the evidence is still there, then it should be checked out," said Defenbaugh, who reviewed the documents at the request of the AP. "If I were still in the bureau, the investigation would be reopened."

The bombing killed more than 160 people and McVeigh was put to death for it in 2001. His co-defendant, Terry Nichols, will stand trial in Oklahoma next week on state charges that carry the death penalty.

Peter Langan, one member of the robbery gang, told the AP he plans to testify at Nichols' trial and that federal prosecutors several years ago offered and then withdrew a plea deal for information he had about the Oklahoma City bombing.

Langan said at least three fellow gang members were in Oklahoma around the time of the bombing and one later confided to him that they had become involved. The gang "had some liability problems as it related to Oklahoma City," Langan alleged in a phone interview from federal prison where he is serving life sentences for the robbery spree involving nearly two dozen Midwest banks in the 1990s.

McVeigh's ex-lawyer said the evidence obtained by the AP is the strongest to date to show what he has argued for years - that the bombing conspiracy may have involved more people than McVeigh and Nichols.

"I think these pieces close the circle, and they clearly show the bombing conspiracy consisted probably of 10 conspirators," attorney Stephen Jones said. "They (government officials) simply turned their backs on a group of people for which there is credible evidence suggesting they were involved in the murder of 160 people."

FBI and Justice Department officials declined comment, citing the upcoming trial.

Agents who worked both the McVeigh bombing and the bank robbery spree - two of the FBI's highest priority cases of the 1990s - said they suspected a link between the two because of physical evidence as well as statements made by the robbers and a girlfriend.

The agents said they ruled out a connection when the bank robbers denied their involvement and provided an alibi showing they left Oklahoma three days before McVeigh's bomb detonated outside the Alfred P. Murrah federal building on April 19, 1995.

That alibi, however, was contradicted by information Langan offered prosecutors and by car sales records showing the bank robbers were still in the Oklahoma area after they claimed to have left, FBI documents show.

Defenbaugh said his investigators never were told about the license, the blasting caps or problems with the robbers' alibi, and he first learned of them from the AP this year.

He and other agents said there could be plausible explanations for each - blasting caps are plentiful and the bank robbers were experts in identification fraud - but those questions needed to be answered.

FBI officials couldn't explain why certain information from the robbery investigation wasn't shared with Defenbaugh's team, even though the two teams worked together closely.

McVeigh in 1994 stole from a quarry hundreds of construction blasting caps, some which he used to explode the Oklahoma City bomb. The FBI spent months unsuccessfully trying to locate many of the other stolen caps.

Agents collected witness testimony that McVeigh had placed some of the extra caps in two boxes wrapped in Christmas paper in the back of his car along with mercury switches and duffel bags.

One electric and five non-electric blasting caps were found in the Aryan Republican Army robbers' Ohio hideout in January 1996, along with mercury switches, a duffel bag and two items described as a "Christmas package," FBI records show. Rather than analyze the caps as evidence, the FBI allowed firefighters to destroy them at the scene.

The destruction "in itself was in total violation of the FBI's regulations and the rules of evidence," Defenbaugh said. "If there was Christmas wrapping paper, that should really have been a key to people. That should have keyed interest, and caused them to be compared by the laboratory to see if these were from McVeigh."

The FBI took photos of the caps and kept the driver's license but refused repeated requests from AP to release them.

Defenbaugh said he also was concerned his investigation was never told the bank robbers had an Arkansas drivers' license in the name of Robert Miller, the alias name used by Arkansas gun dealer Roger Moore.

The government contended at McVeigh's trial that Moore was robbed at his Hot Springs, Ark., home in November 1994, and the proceeds were used to fund the Oklahoma City bombing.

McVeigh was in Ohio the day Moore was robbed, staying in a hotel near a bank the robbers would hit just one month later.

FBI agents were so suspicious of a link they analyzed video footage of the robbery to see whether McVeigh participated, but the FBI lab reported the comparison of McVeigh's picture to the bank surveillance video was inconclusive. That video was destroyed in 1999 by the FBI despite rules to the contrary.

A few months after Moore's robbery, McVeigh and the gun dealer exchanged letters in which Moore went by the name Robert Miller, the same alias on the license bank robber Richard Guthrie possessed when he was arrested in 1996.

"If the license is the same as our Roger Moore, then I'm really concerned," Defenbaugh said.

Defenbaugh said he also was unaware that the government recovered a videotape from the robbers that included surveillance of several properties. Langan said he suspects the tape includes footage of Moore's home where the 1994 robbery occurred.

Adding to the intrigue, a death row inmate who has written a book about his experiences with McVeigh inside prison alleges the convicted Oklahoma City bomber told him the bank robbery gang assisted the bombing plot.

David Paul Hammer, a convicted murderer set to be executed in June, said he has no way of knowing whether McVeigh told him the truth but he kept notes from his conversations and believes prison officials surreptitiously recorded some conversations. His book, due out next month, details what McVeigh told him about the robbers.

"He (McVeigh) knew they were involved because he said he planned it with them," Hammer said. "He said they were part of what he called his security detail."

FBI agents acknowledged they investigated suspicions of a link between McVeigh and the bank robbers.

When bank robber Mark Thomas was indicted in January 1997 he told reporters that at least one gang member was involved in the Oklahoma bombing, according to a newspaper clip in FBI files. "Your young Mr. Wizard took out the Murrah building," Thomas was quoted as saying of one of his bank robbery colleagues.

Thomas' ex-girlfriend told FBI agents her boyfriend stated shortly before he traveled to a White supremacist compound at Elohim City, Okla., in spring 1995 that a federal building was about to be bombed.

"We are going to get them. We are going to hit one of their buildings during the middle of the day. It's going to be a federal building," Donna Marazoff quoted Thomas as saying during her FBI interview.

FBI agents also recovered a video tape from the bank robbers in which they vowed a war with the government and talked about a "courthouse massacre" while holding up a copy of an explosives manual.

Thomas could not be located for comment, but was quoted in FBI interview reports as saying "he could not recall ever saying anything to Donna Marazoff about blowing anything up or about taking part in any bombings."

The FBI agents said they dropped the inquiry after Thomas, Guthrie and other members of the ARA gang were captured in 1996 and 1997, denied their involvement in McVeigh's bombing and provided an alibi.

The alibi, according to FBI records, was that the bank robbers left Elohim City on April 16, 1995, and went to a house in Kansas to meet with Langan three days before the bombing. But the FBI's own records conflicted with that account.

Used car sales records gathered by the FBI showed the gang purchased a truck on April 17, 1995, on the Oklahoma-Arkansas border, then returned to Elohim City to sell an old vehicle.

Langan said he offered to tell prosecutors back in 1996 that the bank robbers' alibi was bogus. "They didn't return to the house until the morning of April 20," Langan claimed.

A January 1996 FBI teletype stated the FBI had received information from an informant that McVeigh had made repeated contacts with the Elohim City compound where the bank robbers frequently stayed.

The teletype said McVeigh called the compound April 5, 1995, on "a day that he was believed to have been attempting to recruit a second conspirator to assist in the OKBOMB attack." At the time, at least two banks robbers were present, FBI records show.

Defenbaugh said while the evidence was never introduced at McVeigh's trial, FBI agents did believe McVeigh was seeking to recruit additional help to facilitate his getaway. But he said the FBI failed to find any evidence McVeigh received help or made other contacts to Elohim City except for the one call.

The documents show FBI agents first suspected a possible link in summer 1995 when Guthrie left behind at the site of two bank robberies a newspaper article about the Oklahoma City bombing with McVeigh's picture circled.

Langan said the robbers became fearful Guthrie might recklessly implicate them in the Oklahoma City bombing, and in fall 1995 discussed killing Guthrie. Guthrie eventually committed suicide after his capture by authorities the following spring.

cushioncrawler
04-09-2010, 07:06 PM
Domestic Terrorism 101 - Elohim City
(Where All Roads Lead)
By Nicole Nichols





Nestled deep into the foothills of the Ozark Mountains in far Eastern Oklahoma, there is a compound of hate. Accessible only by a rocky road and a yellow steel bridge, Elohim City has been a base of operations for right wing terrorists for the last thirty years. Inhabited by anywhere from seventy to one-hundred people the guest list of Elohim City is a veritable "Who's Who" in the annals of hate, white supremacy and neo-Nazism.

For the average observer one might consider the residents no more than a little eccentric and their lifestyle a little cultish. The "cultish" part might be a little fitting. The religion that is practiced is one that has been adhered to by members of the Klan and Aryan Nations - Christian Identity - nothing more than a racist bastardization of Christian teachings. Those who practice Identity believe in a "seed-line" where Adam was not thefirst man but the first white man. They believe that all non-whites are mud-people and that Jews are the spawn of Satan.

There is, however, something even more pernicious going on in these hills. All Elohim City residents are armed to teeth. Their claims that their arms are merely defensive is flawed once one realizes that for decades paramilitary training has been conducted and engaged in at this compound by some of the most notorious of all domestic terrorists, and some who have yet to be officially labeled. In 1983, while The Order was robbing banks and armored cars and murdering their own as well as Jewish talk show host Alan Berg, there was something even bigger being planned at Elohim City - a plot to blow up the Afred P. Murrah Federal Building - the same building that was bombed by Timothy McVeigh in 1995.

James Ellison, Kerry Noble and Richard Wayne Snell visited the Federal Building and laid the plans to make an anti-government statement by blowing it up. James Ellison was the leader of the Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord (CSA) group - another Identity outfit similar to Elohim City. The group is now defunct but they had strong ties with Elohim City and with The Order. James Ellison is currently incarcerated. He was captured after a four day siege at Elohim City. Kerry Noble is now an anti-Nazi and Snell was executed for the murder of a black police officer and a businessman who he erroneously believed was Jewish on April 19, 1995 - the day that McVeigh et.al. succeeded in bringing the building down.

While the racist right is generally thought of as those who wear sheets or boots and braces, spew racial epithets off of State Capitol steps and generally create an atmosphere of hate for those of color or differing ethnicities, they are also anti-government. The agendas of the white supremacists and neo-Nazis are specific in that they do not wish to bring about changes in government - they want an overthrow. They want to relplace the American government with one that is "racially aware" and, of course, white.

Richard Wayne Snell was affiliated with The Order. His execution date of April 19th, is not insignificant. April 19th, is a sacred day to many in the white power movement. It is the date for the shot heard around the world. It is the date that the German Nazi's burned the Warsaw Ghetto. It was on April 19th that the FBI raided the CSA. It was the date of the original and aborted raid on Randy Weaver's cabin. And, it was the date that Mt. Carmel burned to the ground in Waco, Texas. Now it was to be the date of Snell's execution. Robert Millar, founder and head of the Elohim City Compound, (now deceased) made arrangements for the body of Snell to be sent to the compound for burial. Millar was with Snell during his last day and they watched the events of the OKC bombing unfold. Snell chuckled as he watched the mayhem. Oddly enough, according to his jailers, Snell had predicted that something really big was going to happen, something was going to blow up on the date of his death. Was he acquainted with Timothy McVeigh? Highly unlikely. But, he was well acquainted with those who frequented Elohim City - and we all know how news does travel.

In the late eighties and early nineties the militia movement was making some gains in this country. Many of the gains in membership, however, came from the racist right. They found something that they could sink their teeth into. Racist ideology combined with militia mentality made for a deadly combination. What appeared to be the death of The Order was simply wishful thinking. With the arrest of the leaders and the deadly shoot-out with Robert Matthews resulting in his fiery death, other members went underground. The "legends" surrounding that deadly mob served to cannonize those imprisoned and provided a recruiting tool to the hate groups. It was during this time that Timothy McVeigh, disillusioned and disgusted with the status-quo, went on his trek around the country. And it was during this time thatDennis Mahon, W.A.R. leader for the state of Oklahoma, addressed the Aryan World Congress in Hayden Lake Idaho delivering the following message:

"Don't ever forget Bob Matthews and don't ever forget the 'Order'...because that's what's going to happen again soon...It's coming again!...Revolution is coming!...It's coming sooner than you think!" (1991)

Mahon, a "lone wolf" advocate and sometime resident of Elohim City, knew what he was talking about. A new "Order" had, in fact, emerged. Calling itself the "Aryan Republican Army," the new group carved a trail of robbery and mayhem across America's heartland. It represented the most radical of those in the Aryan Movement. The leaders of the "Army" claimed to be dedicated to the "overthrow of the US government, the extermination of American Jews, and the establishment of an Aryan Republic" on the North American continent. Peter Langan, on of the Army's leaders, called himself "Commander Pedro" on a two-hour video that was made to promote the ARA called, "The Aryan Republican Army Presents: The Armed Struggle Underground." Throughout the video, one will see Langan in a ski mask and others in fatigues brandishing guns, rifles and knives along with wads of money. At one point Langan rasps, "Our basic goal is to set up an Aryan republic. ... Don't mistake us for cultists. We, ladies and gentlemen, are YOUR neighbors." The video continues vowing war on the Federal government and promising a "courthouse massacre." Sharon Cohen, in an article for the Associated Press, had this account of the group after their arrest:

In the beginning, it was just a curious string of bank robberies.
About one a month in a Midwestern state. In Iowa. Wisconsin. Missouri. Ohio. Nebraska. Kansas. Kentucky.
A pattern began emerging. The robbers, at times dressed like construction workers, zipped in and out of the banks within five minutes. They sometimes yelled Spanish words. They'd snatch the cash themselves (so tellers couldn't rig the bags with dye bombs), then dash off in junk cars they had purchased with bogus IDs in the previous week or so.
They'd also leave smoke grenades and pipe bombs -- usually inert -- in lunch boxes or other containers in the bank and in getaway cars to slow their pursuers. No one was injured in the holdups.
The robbers had a whimsical side, too. In a December heist, one suspect wore a Santa Claus suit, shouted "Ho, ho, ho!" to customers and left a bomb tucked in a Santa hat. In a March robbery, an 8- to 9-inch, gold-color pipe bomb was nestled in an Easter basket.
It was their political message, though, that intrigued authorities. The robbers stuffed a copy of the Declaration of Independence in the ashtray of one getaway car. They donned caps or bandanas bearing logos of the FBI or the ATF, the bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the agency that led the fiery raid on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
And in 1995, they bought a Ford Fairmont for a getaway car in the name of a retired FBI agent who had worked white supremacist cases in the Northwest. They abandoned it, leaving on the front seat an article about Timothy McVeigh, charged in the Oklahoma City federal building bombing.
Piece by piece -- the anti-government rhetoric, explosives, imitating the feds -- the puzzle began to take shape for FBI Special Agent Jim Nelson in St. Louis. It reminded him of The Order, a white supremacist organization that pulled off a $3.6 million armored car robbery in California in 1984.
It also was clear to Agent Nelson, who has since retired from the FBI, that the bank robbers had political motivations: "There's plenty of reason to believe they were very serious about their anarchist views," he said.
So he went public with his speculation. And there was a response -- from the robbers themselves.
Several Midwest newspapers received letters ridiculing one Nebraska FBI agent as a "loudmouth" and nominating Agent Nelson for an award for "honesty and demonstrating patriotism." The self-proclaimed "Mid-Western Bank Bandits" said they were "proud to appoint Jim Nelson as our new spokesman for 1996."
"They knew I had hit the nail on the head," Agent Nelson recalled.

As the Aryan Republican Army cut a trail across the country, their base of operations remained - Elohim City. During that time, at least five (perhaps more) members of the ARA lived and operated out of the compound. Also during that time, the Chief of Security was one Andreas Strassmeir who figures prominently into the Oklahoma City bombing.

That Elohim City is a hot-bed for domestic terrorist is no longer in question. What is, however, is why they have been allowed to continue unfettered for so long. Andreas Strassmeir, who will be discussed at length in another article, was well known to the FBI. On May 10, 1991, and FBI investigative report states:

"Strassmeir is alleged to train platoon-sized groups consisting of approximately 30-40 individuals approximately every three months at the Elohim City facility. These individuals are comprised of members of various militia groups throughout the United States."

It is evident that Federal Law Enforcement were not only aware of happenings and events at the Elohim City compound, but that they had detailed information of the daily occurrences - and they should have given the fact that prior to the OKC bombing and during the ARA string of robberies they had a confidential informant on the inside of the compound. That informant, along with a host of other witnesses, place Timothy McVeigh at Elohim City. They also place Timothy McVeigh in the company of ARA members and Andreas Strassmeir shortly before the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building. In an article dated February 12, 2003, Associated Press writer, John Solomon, reports that the connection between McVeigh, Elohim City and the ARA was, in fact, relayed to the proper law-enforcement agencies, but in a SNAFU that has become all familiar to the American people, the information was "mishandled" and the investigation was never completed. The AP report claims the following:

"It is suspected that members of Elohim City are involved either directly or indirectly through conspiracy," federal agents wrote in one memo just days after McVeigh detonated a truck bomb April 19, 1995, outside the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City and killed more than 160 people.

The documents also include a teletype from FBI headquarters in August 1996 that reported McVeigh called Elohim City two weeks before his bombing, a call to a home where members of a violent Aryan Nation bank robbery gang were present.

McVeigh made the call April 5, 1995, moments after calling the Ryder truck company where he rented the truck that carried his deadly bomb. The government had known from an informant weeks before McVeigh's call that members of Elohim City were threatening an attack, the documents show.

The FBI teletype revealed that the gang members who were present when McVeigh called were familiar with explosives and had made a videotape three months before McVeigh struck vowing a war against the federal government and promising a "courthouse massacre."

Defenbaugh said he also was surprised to learn, from AP interviews and documents, that prosecutors in 1996 made and then withdrew a plea bargain offer to one of the imprisoned bank robbers, Kevin Peter Langan, who claimed he had information about the Oklahoma City bombing.

"The Justice Department came to us through the assistant U.S. attorney and said, 'We believe your client knows about Oklahoma City and we want to talk to him. We want to work out a deal,'" Langan's lawyer Kevin Durkin told AP.

Langan made several demands the government wasn't willing to meet, and prosecutors dropped the request, Durkin said.

Durkin said his client has information about the Oklahoma City bombing, and had planned to tell prosecutors that he could disprove the April 19 alibis for two of the bank robbers mentioned in the FBI teletype.

Langan recently asked a court to stop the government from destroying evidence he claims may be relevant to the Oklahoma City case.

FBI officials acknowledged some of the documents were not provided to McVeigh's defense team before his trial. For instance, they said FBI teletypes were not covered by the agreement governing documents to be given to McVeigh's defense.

They also acknowledged that agents suspected at one point that the bomber was linked to Elohim City and the Aryan Nation bank robbers.

The documents show the FBI suspected McVeigh participated in a December 1994 Ohio bank robbery with the Aryan Nation robbers, but lab analyses that attempted to match him to a videotape from the bank's security camera were inconclusive.

FBI officials had several reasons to suspect a connection:

_McVeigh's sister told them her brother gave her money from a bank robbery and asked her to launder it in December 1994. Also, they had evidence McVeigh was in Ohio at the time, FBI officials said.

_The leader of the robbery gang, Mark Thomas, initially told agents after his arrest that he suspected some of his members were involved in McVeigh's plot. He later recanted.

_A girlfriend of one of the bank robbers told the FBI her boyfriend had told her beforehand of a plan to bomb a federal building, and that he left days before the bombing for a trip to Elohim City. "We are going to get them. We are going to hit one of their buildings during the middle of the day. It is going to be a federal building," n FBI report quoted the bank robber as telling the girlfriend.

FBI agents stopped pursuing possible connections between McVeigh and the robbers when the suspects all denied assisting the Oklahoma bomber. Most weren't given lie detector tests, officials said.

And there's more - lots more - that really stinks about this whole "investigation" or lack thereof. Far too many people have been labeled "conspiracy theorists" because they followed and they tracked and they KNEW that the connection was there. In the world of right-wing racists, supremacists, separatists and neo-Nazi's it has long been said that "all roads lead to Elohim City." How unfortunate that our law-enforcement people didn't know that. One-hundred and sixty-eight people died on April 19, 1995. Nineteen of them were babies. In addition to the deaths over 500 were injured and maimed. Families and friends mourned the losses of those human beings. The nation was in shock to believe that an American could engage in such an act. Words and acts of kindness were sent to the residents of Oklahoma City from around the world. Yet, the one thing that that was wished for most fervently was justice. As we continue to unfold the truth about Timothy McVeigh, Elohim City and the racist right, we ask you to join us in our fight to demand that the government of the United States of America reopen the case of the Oklahoma City travesty and that they pursue those involved with the same amount of vigor and perserverence that is being afforded the War on Terrorism in the rest of the world. The time has come for our homeland to be secure, and it must be secure from those who would destroy it from within.

Gayle in MD
04-10-2010, 07:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capitalism
The Rise of Conservative Fascism

Ital*ian and Ger*man fas*cist move*ments blos*somed dur*ing the col*lapse of their lib*eral cap*i*tal*ist states. Both national move*ments came to power explic*itly on anti-communist and anti-socialist slo*gans. Something similar is happening here.
There are very real prob*lems with the Tea Party. The com*mon dis*sat*is*fac*tion with Obama always seems hung on phrases that sug*gest vio*lence. There is more xeno*pho*bia than con*spir*acy the*ory in the birther vit*riol.

At the Nashville con*fer*ence, impor*tant Repub*li*can dem*a*gogues such as Tom Tan*credo and Sarah Palin were crowd favorites. Their style of charis*matic, car*toon*ish patri*o*tism make them lead*ing polit*i*cal fig*ures in what could become a newly indige*nous Amer*i*can fascism.

In his book The Anatomy of Fas*cism, Robert Pax*ton notes that Ital*ian and Ger*man fas*cist move*ments blos*somed dur*ing the col*lapse of their respec*tive lib*eral cap*i*tal*ist states, and that both national move*ments came to power explic*itly on anti-communist and anti-socialist slo*gans.

They directed pop*u*lar enthu*si*asm into dic*ta*tor*ships against the left, and mobi*lized pas*sions already inflamed by the col*lapse of those cap*i*tal*ist economies.

Crowds formed in order to inflict and threaten vio*lence against spe*cific tar*gets, and legit*i*mated it by simul*ta*ne*ously vic*tim*iz*ing them*selves and claim*ing ‘chosen-people’ sta*tus.

The move*ment worked as an “anti-political pol*i*tics,” or a pol*i*tics that sought to use demo*c*ra*tic tech*niques and extra-legal vio*lence to destroy ene*mies of the peo*ple.

Noam Chom*sky uses sim*i*lar lan*guage to describe the fanatic anti-political, anti-government per*spec*tive of Tim*o*thy McVeigh, the Okla*homa City bomber.

What dis*tin*guishes the Tea Party thus far from these ear*lier fas*cisms is its fail*ure, thus far, to explic*itly self-identify as a racist move*ment, or as a group itself vic*tim*ized by an enemy.

The vague idea of lib*er*als or big gov*ern*ment isn’t con*crete enough to stir vio*lence against groups, only insti*tu*tions — like the IRS or the Pen*ta*gon or any fed*eral agency.

The fact that it is a white move*ment with some racists within it doesn’t make it a racist move*ment — not yet.

Instead, angry whites dom*i*nate the group with*out ele*vat*ing their white*ness as a con*di*tion of belong*ing.

If it is racist, then, it advo*cates a weird kind of white power that other races are free to join.

It has also failed to iden*tify another “iden*tity” group it holds pri*mar*ily respon*si*ble for its prob*lems. They rally against Mex*i*can immi*gra*tion with*out explic*itly express*ing dis*gust with Mex*i*cans them*selves.

Tea Partiers have an obvi*ous prob*lem with “rad*i*cal Islam,” but they aren’t orga*niz*ing vio*lence against Muslim-Americans. Dif*fer*ent parts of the Tea Party seem angry at dif*fer*ent ene*mies, and they project onto Obama a syn*thetic car*i*ca*ture of their fears. Even stranger, the Tea Party’s appeal as a fas*cist party has been clar*i*fied by its avowed dec*la*ra*tion that Obama is a total*i*tar*ian, social*ist, com*mu*nist, and finally fas*cist dic*ta*tor. It appears at times to be the very move*ment it pro*claims to orga*nize against.

The Tea Party is not yet the depend*able vehi*cle of any coher*ent fas*cist pol*icy, then, even as the politi*cians asso*ci*ated with it chan*nel its emo*tions into threats of vio*lence. Tea Party can*di*date for Texas gov*er*nor, Debra Med*ina, was reported not to advo*cate “blood*shed” her*self but rather to invoke it as “inevitable” if the con*sti*tu*tion isn’t prop*erly defended. In a stun*ning admis*sion, she also told Glen Beck that she believed there were “good ques*tions” about the role the Bush admin*is*tra*tion may have played in 9/11, and that the Amer*i*can peo*ple had not “seen all the evi*dence.” Her can*di*dacy attracted atten*tion and pos*i*tive cov*er*age from read*ers and lis*ten*ers of Alex Jones’ “Prison Planet” and “Infowars” web*sites and radio shows. His pop*u*lar*ity has also recently reached new heights; he was inter*viewed on the Ger*aldo Rivera’s FOX news pro*gram after the media tried to link John Patrick Bedell, the so-called Pen*ta*gon shooter, with the 9 – 11 truth move*ment. Jones is the lead*ing Amer*i*can skep*tic of the 9/11 com*mis*sion and, what*ever his excesses and para*noia about issues like global warm*ing, he is per*haps the most inter*est*ing fig*ure in alter*na*tive media for bridg*ing pro*gres*sive and Tea Party pol*i*tics together. He is also the great*est ben*e*fi*ciary of the main*stream media’s descent into cor*po*rate cen*sor*ship, for bet*ter or worse.

But at this stage of its ascen*sion, the movement’s fail*ure to find a sus*tain*able tar*get for its anger has weak*ened the Tea Party. It will need a com*mon enemy for the fas*cist wing to suc*ceed and grow. This enemy can*not be Obama indef*i*nitely. Still, their abject hatred of him is the clos*est the coun*try has seen to a lynch-mob men*tal*ity in decades. Forty years ago, this same aggres*sion would have led to open vio*lence against African-Americans, espe*cially in the south.

At the moment when exec*u*tive power has never appeared stronger, a fas*cist wing of a pop*ulist move*ment has emerged because there is actu*ally a power vac*uum in the demo*c*ra*tic machin*ery of this coun*try.

Fas*cist sen*ti*ments arise when gov*ern*ment isn’t work*ing. And if it con*tin*ues not to work, one way or another there will be blood.


tags: tea party fascsim liberal capitalism conservative sarah palin




comments?


</div></div>

These Tea Party nutcases are the same people we purged from the democratic Party, who spit on our soldiers when they returned Vietnam.

The same southern rooted racists who left the Democratic Party after President Johnson signed his legislation to ourlaw discrimination against AFrican Americans.

They are the same Americans whose parents and grand parents dressed in white sheets and burned crosses.

Authoritarian followers are of the same ilk as those who cheered Hitler.

The link between their psychological profile, and the Evangelical religious nutcases, like Palin, only become more and more violent.

Republicans would prefer complete lawlessness, to losing power, as they have surely shown throughout this growing threat to our safety here at home.

While they are threatening to being their guns "Next time" their gross ignorance and lack of education has them digging through their ammo, and polishing their guns, behind the scenes.

A very dangerous, antiamerican bunch of nutcases, led by the most ignorant figureheads this country has ever seen, and it began with Bush et al, and continues today.

Very unfortunate for our children and grand children.

We have only seen the tip of their disastrous iceberg.

Just reading the posts on this site, is proof enough that so called conservatives, are anything but conservative. Their mentality surely borders on psychotic! The hatred for their government, and their hate filled rhetoric aainst our president, while for eight years they were silent throughout the Bush Regime of broken laws, and lies that led to wrong headed wars, and outed covert agents, and illegal spying, is proof enough that they have no capacity to think for themselves, and no interest beyond what they believe is good for their political party, and to hell with the rest of the country.

I saw the mob mentality more than once in Washington D.C. and it was the picture of the mentally ill, and dangerous element of our society.

Palin, Beck, O'Reilly, Limpballs, Boehner, Bachmann, all of them should be happy now that they have torn the fabric of a relatively safe democracy, beyond recognition.

None of the above represent any dignity, intelligence, or credibility. That should give us a clue about what kind of misguided people are drawn to ttheir dangerous rhetoric.





G.

pooltchr
04-10-2010, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
None of the above represent any dignity, intelligence, or credibility.

G. </div></div>

Exactly what I thought after I read your post!

Steve

LWW
04-10-2010, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[These Tea Party nutcases are the same people we purged from the democratic Party, who spit on our soldiers when they returned Vietnam.

G. </div></div>

When did John Forbes Kerry and Jane Fonda join the tea party?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The same southern rooted racists who left the Democratic Party after President Johnson signed his legislation to ourlaw discrimination against AFrican Americans.

G. </div></div>

Right before he said "This'll have these God dmaned n*ggers voting democrat for a hundred years" ... that LBJ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are the same Americans whose parents and grand parents dressed in white sheets and burned crosses.

G. </div></div>

When did Robert Byrd join the tea party?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Authoritarian followers are of the same ilk as those who cheered Hitler.

G. </div></div>

Like Joseph Kennedy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The link between their psychological profile, and the Evangelical religious nutcases, like Palin, only become more and more violent.

G. </div></div>

If by "MORE AND MORE VIOLENT" you mean non existent other than in leftist mythology ... I agree.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Republicans would prefer complete lawlessness, to losing power, as they have surely shown throughout this growing threat to our safety here at home.

G. </div></div>

Now you are simply being dishonest ... the republichickens lost power because they tried to be Marxist lite, and because of rampant voter and campaign fraud by ACORN, the NBPP, and the DNC.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While they are threatening to being their guns "Next time" their gross ignorance and lack of education has them digging through their ammo, and polishing their guns, behind the scenes.

G. </div></div>

Possibly the only thing which stands between a republic and a new American reich is the fact that this fantasy of yours possibly could come true.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A very dangerous, antiamerican bunch of nutcases, led by the most ignorant figureheads this country has ever seen, and it began with Bush et al, and continues today.

Very unfortunate for our children and grand children.

G. </div></div>

Yes, it is fortunate for them that we still have people with the stones to stand for liberty as Washington, jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, Monroe, Jay, et al did before us.

Why do you hate liberty?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have only seen the tip of their disastrous iceberg.

G. </div></div>

Which is why the Obama regime must be stopped.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just reading the posts on this site, is proof enough that so called conservatives, are anything but conservative. Their mentality surely borders on psychotic! The hatred for their government, and their hate filled rhetoric aainst our president, while for eight years they were silent throughout the Bush Regime of broken laws, and lies that led to wrong headed wars, and outed covert agents, and illegal spying, is proof enough that they have no capacity to think for themselves, and no interest beyond what they believe is good for their political party, and to hell with the rest of the country.

G. </div></div>

So which is it dearie ... you read the posts and fume, or you don't? BTW ... We all know the answer.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw the mob mentality more than once in Washington D.C. and it was the picture of the mentally ill, and dangerous element of our society.

Palin, Beck, O'Reilly, Limpballs, Boehner, Bachmann, all of them should be happy now that they have torn the fabric of a relatively safe democracy, beyond recognition.

G. </div></div>

That there was an Orwellian "TWO MINUTES HATE" worthy rant right there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">None of the above represent any dignity, intelligence, or credibility. That should give us a clue about what kind of misguided people are drawn to ttheir dangerous rhetoric.

G. </div></div>

And, as always, the ad hominem attack. You would have brought a tear to old Saul's eye with that one.

LWW

LWW
04-10-2010, 02:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alex Jones’ “Prison Planet” and “Infowars”

G. </div></div>

What is absolutely hilarious is that after 8 years of the far left blinding following the hate spewed by Alex "KING OF ALL MOONBATS" Jones they now try to paint him as a tea partier.

Here is how Alex Jones and his supporters view conservatives and Fox New:

&gt;&gt;&gt;CLICK HERE TO SEE HOW RIDICULOUS THAT CLAIM WAS&lt;&lt;&lt; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-DoxqvqjxM&feature=player_embedded)

"9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!"

"KILL MICHELLE MALKIN!"

Sound like tea partiers?

Alex Jones is an uber insane moonbat who pimps videos claiming, among other things, that in the Bohemian Grove of California, Geo W Bush, Geo HW Bush, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, the Arab Oil Sheiks, captains of industry, foreign heads of state, and the wealthy of the world gather together for a drug and alcohol laden gay lovefest where they dance naked around a human sacrifice ceremony and await their orders from ...
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... <u><span style='font-family: Arial Black'><span style='font-size: 26pt'>THE JOOOOOOZ-UH!</span></span></u>

Other than skin color, he differs little from Jeremiah Wright's agenda of hate and bloodlust.

LWW