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LWW
04-13-2010, 07:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a striking admission from the Obama Administration's top intelligence officer, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair announced Wednesday that the United States may target its own citizens abroad for death if it believes they are associated with terrorist groups. </div></div>

&gt;&gt;&gt;YET WE HAVE NO WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH FROM THE FAR LEFT&lt;&lt;&lt; (http://rawstory.com/2010/02/kill-americans/)

LWW

pooltchr
04-13-2010, 08:53 AM
They won't even admit just how dangerous Obama is to our country!

Steve

LWW
04-13-2010, 09:02 AM
They don't think he is dangerous.

The brown shirts in 1933 also believed that it was just peachy for enemies of the state to be beaten, arrested, and/or killed.

The only difference is they have changed the color of their shirts to purple.

LWW

LWW
04-13-2010, 11:43 AM
I apologize to the forum.

Apparently our esteemed leftist cabal has deemed the reporting of the regime targeting US citizens for assassination to be "FRIVOLOUS."

LWW

cushioncrawler
04-13-2010, 05:21 PM
If a United States citizen was determined to have joined a foreign terrorist group, that person could be legally murdered under orders given by President George W. Bush after the 9/11 attacks.

"After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bush gave the CIA, and later the military, authority to kill U.S. citizens abroad if strong evidence existed that an American was involved in organizing or carrying out terrorist actions against the United States or U.S. interests, military and intelligence officials said," the Post reported. "The evidence has to meet a certain, defined threshold. The person, for instance, has to pose 'a continuing and imminent threat to U.S. persons and interests,' said one former intelligence official.

"The Obama administration has adopted the same stance. If a U.S. citizen joins al-Qaeda, 'it doesn't really change anything from the standpoint of whether we can target them,' said a senior administration official. 'They are then part of the enemy.'"

The Post, citing anonymous US officials, said the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Joint Special Operations Command have three Americans on their lists of specific people targeted for killing or capture.

Blair said weighing whether to target a US national required determining "whether that American is involved in a group that is trying to attack us, whether that American is a threat to other Americans."

The intelligence chief said he was offering such unusually detailed information in public because "I just don't want other Americans who are watching to think that we are careless."

"In fact, we're not careless about endangering lives at all, but we especially are not careless about endangering American lives as we try to carry out the policies to protect most of the country," he said.

Hoekstra, the ranking Republican, asked what the standards were for targeting American citizens abroad. Blair didn't specifically articulate them.

"We don't target people for free speech," he said. "We target them for taking action that threatens Americans."

Hoekstra pressed him, citing a 2001 incident in which Peru's air force shot down a plane carrying US missionaries, killing a woman and her seven-month-old daughter, after the aircraft was misidentified as a drug-smuggler.

"We were careless and we were reckless," Blair replied. "I want to make sure that this committee does everything that it can and within its power that it does not allow the community to be reckless and careless again."

"While I'm in charge, we will not be careless and reckless," he pledged.

Renowned blogger/lawyer Glenn Greenwald says program breaks US laws

Two of the most respected bloggers from the left who focus on civil liberties and constitutional issues offered harsh criticisms of the assassination program on Thursday.

Salon's Glenn Greenwald, a former NYC lawyer and the 'author of two New York Times Bestselling books,' observes, "Although Blair emphasized that it requires 'special permission' before an American citizen can be placed on the assassination list, consider from whom that 'permission' is obtained: the President, or someone else under his authority within the Executive Branch. There are no outside checks or limits at all on how these 'factors' are weighed. In last week's post, I wrote about all the reasons why it's so dangerous -- as well as both legally and Constitutionally dubious -- to allow the President to kill American citizens not on an active battlefield during combat, but while they are sleeping, sitting with their families in their home, walking on the street, etc. That's basically giving the President the power to impose death sentences on his own citizens without any charges or trial. Who could possibly support that?"

Greenwald continues,

The severe dangers of vesting assassination powers in the President are so glaring that even GOP Rep. Pete Hoekstra is able to see them (at least he is now that there's a Democratic President). At yesterday's hearing, Hoekstra asked Adm. Blair about the threat that the President might order Americans killed due to their Constitutionally protected political speech rather than because they were actually engaged in Terrorism. This concern is not an abstract one. The current controversy has been triggered by the Obama administration's attempt to kill U.S. citizen Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. But al-Awlaki has not been accused (let alone convicted) of trying to attack Americans. Instead, he's accused of being a so-called "radical cleric" who supports Al Qaeda and now provides "encouragement" to others to engage in attacks -- a charge al-Awlaki's family vehemently denies (al-Awlaki himself is in hiding due to fear that his own Government will assassinate him).

The question of where First Amendment-protected radical advocacy ends and criminality begins is exactly the sort of question with which courts have long grappled. In the 1969 case of Brandenburg v. Ohio, the Supreme Court unanimously reversed a criminal conviction of a Ku Klux Klan leader who — surrounded by hooded indivduals holding weapons — gave a speech threatening ”revengeance” against any government official who “continues to suppress the white, Caucasian race.” The Court held that the First Amendment protects advocacy of violence and revolution, and that the State is barred from punishing citizens for the expression of such views. The Brandenburg Court pointed to a long history of precedent protecting the First Amendment rights of Communists to call for revolution — even violent revolution — inside the U.S., and explained that the Government can punish someone for violent actions but not for speech that merely advocates or justifies violence (emphasis added):
As we [395 U.S. 444, 448] said in Noto v. United States, 367 U.S. 290, 297 -298 (1961), "the mere abstract teaching . . . of the moral propriety or even moral necessity for a resort to force and violence, is not the same as preparing a group for violent action and steeling it to such action." See also Herndon v. Lowry, 301 U.S. 242, 259 -261 (1937); Bond v. Floyd, 385 U.S. 116, 134 (1966). A statute which fails to draw this distinction impermissibly intrudes upon the freedoms guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments. It sweeps within its condemnation speech which our Constitution has immunized from governmental control.
Blogger Empty Wheel, who published a highly acclaimed book on the Plame leak case under her real name Marcia Wheeler, writes, "Glenn’s point is important because it appears the government agrees with him on the First Amendment point: all of the speech al-Awlaki has engaged in for the last decade was not deemed worthy of even a criminal indictment. Yet all of a sudden, it got al-Awlaki on the kill list."

After news of the Yemen strikes broke on December 24, RAW STORY noted that many reports suggested the cleric was targeted.

hondo
04-13-2010, 05:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I apologize to the forum.

Apparently our esteemed leftist cabal has deemed the reporting of the regime targeting US citizens for assassination to be "FRIVOLOUS."

LWW </div></div>




Liberal Guide to Debating Conservatives


Liberals have long since learned that debating Conservatives can be a challenging endeavor, since Conservatives are generally misinformed, and twist the truth beyond recognition. Present them with proven facts, after which you can expect to be personally attacked.

Not to worry. The following are several other tips Liberals can use right away to begin defeating Conservatives in every debate, every time.

Lib Tip # 1: Point out the fact that a Black face at a Conservative Convention is almost unheard of. Then point to the history of Southern White Racists, and link those racist attitudes with the many currently serving conservatives on Capital Hill, who applaud the racist signs used by their constituents. At last, remind them that Michael Steele, when exposed for his expensive spending of contributors money, pulled the race card. After pointing to this fact, you can expect to be personally attacked.


Lib Tip # 2: It is best to end a debate before it starts when a conservative begins to assert facts which have already been proven to be lies. Since they only watch Fox News, and listen to irrational zealots like Beck and Limpballs, don't expect anything rational to come from their opinions. End the debate, and then expect to be personally attacked, non stop into infinity.


Lib Tip # 3: Remember taht morals have been a thing of the past for Conservatives for many years. Point to the many pedophiles, closeted gays who stay in the closet, while purporting "Family Values" and vote against gay rights, then add to that all of the convicted felons and marital falanderers from the "Family Values" Christian Conservatives. Point out the pedophilia of the Catholic Church, and the child abuse at Christian Bible School Camps, After which, You can expect to be personally attacked.


Lib Tip # 4: Exploit the Weakest Link: Define your opponent by his weakest link. If 10,000 Tea Partiers hold a rally, amid racist signs which were displayed in front of Republican Leaders who applauded them right in front of the cameras, on the capital steps. your point can be proven just by providing the link to the many videos which prove your point.

Additionally, you can provide the links to the racist, angry mobs that began way back during the campaign. If they still persist, and call you a liar, which is their habit when proven wrong, you might consider refering them to the Southern Poverty Law Center, where reams of factual information is provided and which includes links to sources such as the FBI, and the Homeland Security Department, also warning of the dangers currently being displayed by the many numerous threats of violence, and multiple radical groups, growing within the conservative Tea Parties. This will also likely bring on another personal attack.


Lib Tip # 5: Be alert for their right-wing talking points. That is all that they have, so expect them to use them frequently. Remember, these people voted twice for George Bush, the worst president in history, who said that the Constitution was just a piece of paper, during his tenure, while he broke the Geneva Conventions, was slapped down three times by the Supreme Court for unconstitutional behavior, illegally spied on Americans, fomented torture and lied the country into a war. Don't expect Conservatives who applaud duntzes like Sara Palin, and George Bush, to have any appreciation for the REAL news of the day. Their goal is to avoid reality, so be careful to illimate them early on, from any attempt at real debate. Expect continued personal attacks, even years after you have ended any interaction.

Lib Tip # 6: Remember, these people hate their government, as they were brainwashed to do many years ago, by an actor who pretended to have a brain, so don't expect any real patriotism, or empathy for their fellow Americans. They may call themselves Christians, but in fact, they are greedy, cannot stand to think that any of their tax dollars might help another American, and only approve of seeing their taxes be used to kill people on the other side of the world, or fill the pockets of the walthy. so remember, they are truly not Christians, at all. Expect to be personally attacked when you point out their hisotrical documented lack of appreciation for any humanitarian endeavors.

Lib Tip # 7: Define America by it’s Errors, not its Successes: This is what they love, since they hate their government. Expect to be personally attacked regardless, since attack mode is their only debating skill.

Taking a cue from Lib Tip # 4, It is important to characterize America by it’s current goals and issues, since their ability to grasp the true historical information is unheard of. It is critical that you completely overlook all the bad moves America has made, and the manner in which Republicans supported and propped up one dictatorship after another. In fact, you must go to some lengths to divert people from the notion that because of Republican policies, particularly those of both Bush administrations, and Reagan's administration, the world is a far more dangerous, hostile, sad place. It is pointless to address these facts, since conservatives cannot grasp them.

Even pointing out the bad treatment of Indians and Slaves, will be denied by Conservatives, since they still think the White Man deserves to have slaves, and actually have Governors on the scene, currently, who praise the Confederacy, without a mention of slavery at all. Expect to be personally attacked after you do this...and don't bother mentioning how many Americans have been killed by the same Weapons of Mass Destruction which Conservatives have spread around the world for money for decades.

Lib Tip # 8: Blame talk radio and FOX news for fanning hate and racism: Because they are in fact the Conservative's main source of unamerican rheotric and lies. Avoid at all costs the fact that both talk radio and FOX news would not be able to spread around all theuir propaganda, if their King Communist, Ronald Reagan, hadn't removed all semblence of journalistic integrity, and standards. Pointing out that Fox's wide audience is linked to the same radical element, and growing irrational RW radical threat which our law enforcement is so concerned about, or the fact that some of the Fox Propagandists, and irrational RW pundits, have actually been linked to murders, will only bring about an example of that very irrational thinking and in some cases, threats of violence, from the Conservative with whom you have attempted to reason. Above all, NEVER try rational reasoning with a propagandized Conservative. They are beyond hope. Expect to be personally attacked, if you dare to maintain your own opinion.

Lib Tip # 9: Government is Good: Insist that appropriate government intervention is a good thing, and is included in the Founder's intentions.

Assert that it is our patriotic duty to pay taxes in spite of the fact that their beloved wealthy corporate fascist pigs, don't pay them. Nothing makes a Conservative more angry than when you point out that the wealthy do not pay their fair share of taxes, since they still believe in the already proven ridiculous theory of Trickle Down Economics.

Also, when debating with a conservative, don't expect any knowledge of economics in general, since they have been known to disregard even the most basic principles adn think that gross debt growth under Republcian control, is not a concern, at all. They ahve been known to defend this absurdity even in the face of complete economic collapse. Expect to be personally attacked when you point this out.


Lib Tip # 10: Send them to this web address http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/tab/article/

which will prove all their ridiculous asssertions about Reagan's economic achievements to be just another of their fantasies. Bill Clinton created the best economy in recent history. Created more jobs than Both Bush's combined, and most Republicans. Tell them that Jimmy Carter produced more jobs than either W. or his father, combined. Expect to be attacked, personally, when you point out this fact.



And at last, and this is probably the best advice of all, Don't bother debating with Conservatives, at all. They are generally nasty people which you would be far better off avoiding entirely. Who want's to argue needlessly with brick headed idiots who think that Sara Palin is a genius, or that a man can live inside of a whale

pooltchr
04-13-2010, 06:21 PM
Hondo, I hate to see you sinking so low as to allow Gayle to do your thinking and writing for you.

Steve

hondo
04-13-2010, 06:32 PM
now you know how I felt when you joined dud's clan.

pooltchr
04-13-2010, 07:44 PM
You've never seen me cut and paste his posts!!

Steve

hondo
04-13-2010, 09:30 PM
yugo inspired me.

ugotda7
04-13-2010, 11:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yugo inspired me. </div></div>


You always have been a good follower of your betters.

JohnnyD
04-14-2010, 01:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">now you know how I felt when you joined dud's clan. </div></div>Hondo IF you ever want to be a teacher you must learn to think for yourself.

LWW
04-14-2010, 01:37 AM
Quite true.

My concern is how does the far left rationalize that this was consummate evil under Bush yet just peachy under Obama?

One of my many hobbies is pointing out inconvenient truths to those deceived by "lightning from the heights" ... and they are legion.

LWW

hondo
04-14-2010, 05:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yugo inspired me. </div></div>


You always have been a good follower of your betters. </div></div>

Originally Posted By: LWW: "I apologize to the forum."

hondo
04-14-2010, 05:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JohnnyD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">now you know how I felt when you joined dud's clan. </div></div>Hondo IF you ever want to be a teacher you must learn to think for yourself. </div></div>


Originally Posted By: LWW: "I apologize to the forum."

ugotda7
04-14-2010, 05:58 AM
You always have been a good follower of your betters.