View Full Version : Marxism/Capitalism? Let's compare.

04-22-2010, 09:00 AM
Much of the comparisons between the two are purely theoretical, and proponents of each can pick and choose the dat they want. There are very few direct side by side examples of a free market economy and a state ran economy. However ... there is one, and that is the old East Germany/West Germany.

Two nations sharing a common border with roughly equal natural resources and drawing from the same base of people at the exact same time in history ... and each starting from the same starting point - a bombed out wreck following WWII. Now ... let's compare a high ticket item made by both sides, the family car.

The state ran EG economy built what they decided the people needed. They were devoid of the profit motive and in theory were looking out solely for the best interests of the people. The state controlled every step of production and operated under regulations that it determined. The private ran WG economy was subject to the evil profit motive. This led them to serve the customer ... or die. They had to bid on raw materials on the open market and operate under regulations over which they had very little control. Yet both ideologies produced a "PEOPLE'S CAR" for consumption. I have used 1990, the reunification date of EG and WG, so that the highest level of each could be used for comparison.

From Marxist East Germany:


<span style='font-size: 17pt'><u>VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau Trabant</u></span>

Horsepower: 27
Torque: 38 ft/lb
0-60 MPH: 30.3 seconds
1/4 mile: 22.5 seconds @ 56 MPH
Top speed: 62 MPH
City MPG: 26
Hwy MPG: 34
Emission controls: NONE

From capitalist West Germany:

http://www.motorbase.com/uploads/candc/2009/10/09/fs_937727.jpghttp://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/1990_Volkswagen_Golf_Limited_Motorsport_GTI_G60_Su percharged_Syncro_For_Sale_Engine_1.jpg

<span style='font-size: 17pt'><u>VOLKSWAGEN GOLF</u></span>

Horsepower: 160
Torque: 166 ft/lb
0-60 MPH: 8.3 seconds
1/4 mile: 15.375 seconds @ 91.25 MPH
Top speed: 134 MPH
City MPG: 25
Hwy MPG: 32
Emission controls: 3 way catalytic convertor/EGR/PCV/EFI

&gt;&gt;&gt;OH DEAR&lt;&lt;&lt; (http://trabant.shocauto.com/trabant_specs.htm)

&gt;&gt;&gt;OH MY&lt;&lt;&lt; (http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=16588)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;OH NO&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; (http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-Golf-Timeslip-14274.html)

&gt;&gt;&gt;GOODNESS GRACIOUS&lt;&lt;&lt; (http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/07/12/volkswagen-golf-gas-mileage/)


04-23-2010, 11:06 PM
State kontroll wins again.

Adolf Hitler and Volkswagen

Sitting at a restaurant table in Munich in the summer of 1932, Hitler designed the prototype for what would become the immensely successful Beetle design for Volkswagen (literally, the "car of the people"). In an era where only the most economic elite possessed cars, Hitler believed that all people should be able to own a car and additionally thought that a smart design could allow for reliability, enjoyment, and vacation travel. The name given to the car in 1938 was Kraft durch Freude (KdF-Wagen, literally "strength through joy car").

Hitler gave his design to the head of Daimler-Benz, Jakob Werlin, and stressed its importance. "Take it with you and speak with people who understand more about it than I do. But don't forget it. I want to hear from you soon, about the technical details."

04-23-2010, 11:08 PM
This article is about the original Volkswagen Beetle. For the automobile introduced in 1998, see Volkswagen New Beetle.
Volkswagen Type 1
Manufacturer Volkswagen
Also called Veedub, Volkswagen Beetle,
Volkswagen Bug (unofficially)
also see list of international names & nicknames for the Type 1
Production 1938–2003
21,529,464 built
(of which 15,444,858 in Germany, incl. 330,251 Cabriolets,[1]
and ≈ 3,350,000 in Brazil)
Assembly Wolfsburg, Hanover, Emden, Ingolstadt, Osnabrück, Germany
Melbourne, Australia
Brussels, Belgium
São Bernardo do Campo, Brazil
Jakarta, Indonesia
Dublin, Ireland
Puebla, Puebla, Mexico
Auckland, New Zealand
Lagos, Nigeria
Manila, Philippines
Uitenhage, South Africa
Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, SFR Yugoslavia
Successor Volkswagen Golf
Volkswagen Jetta (Sedan)
Volkswagen New Beetle
Volkswagen Gol (in Brazil)
Class Subcompact
Economy car
Body style(s)
2-door sedan
2-door convertible
Layout rear engine,
rear-wheel drive
Engine(s) 1.1 L H4
1.2 L H4
1.3 L H4
1.5 L H4
1.6 L H4
Transmission(s) 4-speed manual transaxle,
3-speed clutchless manual ("Autostick")

The Volkswagen Beetle, also known as the Volkswagen Type 1, was an economy car produced by the German auto maker Volkswagen (VW) from 1938 until 2003. It used an air cooled rear engined rear wheel drive (RR layout). Over 21 million Beetles were produced in all.[2]

In the 1950s, it was more comfortable and powerful than most European small cars, having been designed for sustained high speed on the Autobahn, and ultimately became the longest-running and most-produced automobile of a single design. It remained a top seller in the US, even as rear-wheel drive conventional subcompacts were refined, and eventually replaced by front-wheel drive models. Its success owed much to its extremely high build quality, and innovative, eye-catching advertising. The Beetle car was the benchmark for both generations of American compact cars such as the Chevrolet Corvair, and subcompact cars such as the Chevrolet Vega and Ford Pinto. It was the German equivalent and counterpart to the Morris Minor, Renault 4CV, Citroen 2CV, Fiat 600, Saab 92, and Volvo PV444 immediate post-war European economy cars. The 1948 Citroen 2CV was the beginning of a switch to front wheel drive by European manufacturers in the 1960s and 1970s. Volkswagen were among the last to change with the Golf. The Beetle was 13 ft (4.0 m) long and the Mini was only 10 ft (3.0 m), but they had similar interior space[citation needed].

The car was originally known as Käfer, the German word for "beetle", from which the popular English nickname originates. It was not until August 1967 that the Volkswagen corporation itself began using the name "Beetle" in marketing materials in the US. Previously, it had only been known as either the "Type 1" or as the VW 1100, 1200, 1300, 1500, or 1600 which had been the names under which the vehicle was marketed in Europe; the numbers denoted the vehicle's approximate engine size in cubic centimetres. In 1998, many years after the original model had been dropped from the lineup in most of the world (production continued in Mexico until discontinued, officially on 9 July 2003[3]), VW introduced the "New Beetle" (built on a Volkswagen Golf Mk4 platform) which bore a visual resemblance to the original.

In an international poll for the award of the world's most influential car of the twentieth century the Beetle came fourth after the Ford Model T, the Mini, and the Citroën DS.[4]

04-24-2010, 05:17 PM

04-24-2010, 05:17 PM

04-24-2010, 05:19 PM

04-24-2010, 05:33 PM

04-24-2010, 05:36 PM

04-24-2010, 05:38 PM

04-24-2010, 05:40 PM

04-25-2010, 05:29 AM
Well ... the point of the thread was that when direct comparisons can be made, state ran economies deliver inferior and under engineered products and hugely inflated prices.


04-25-2010, 07:27 AM
Dubb -- All ekonomys are run. But some pipple dont know.

04-26-2010, 04:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dubb -- All ekonomys are run. But some pipple dont know.
madMac. </div></div>

Sadly true ... but that does not deter from the fact that the more central planning involved the worse the economy does and the closer to a free market it gets the better the economy does.


04-26-2010, 03:33 PM
With smart pipple in charge of smart pipple, every system works fine.