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Sid_Vicious
04-23-2010, 03:06 PM
I'll say right now, as a non republican, that I find some repulse over Obama suggesting the new Arizona law is unconstitutional. Here is one of my prime examples. Remember Spiderman getting almost killed by being run over by an illegal alien? The driver had no identification at all, but was just fined $100 and released on the spot, before anyone even knew Spidey was going to live or die.

This whole damn country should at least detain, prosecute and/or deport anyone with a suspicious personality. This argument saying there's now a license to racially profile is a POS argument. Look at it this way, I get stopped for a tail light out, OR I get my home entered by an LEO because of say, a "Welfare Check" request from a neighbor, and there's a tray of weed on the table. BANG! They yank my chain, and hell breaks loose. Just why isn't appropriate to follow the same exact actions when it involves breaking international law by being an IA?

I wish that Bush would have fixed this when he had all of the legislative powers, but he failed to want to do that. That sucked!

Bravo Arizona! Let's get the rest of the states to do the same thing. Obama, shut up and listen to Arizona. sid

Deeman3
04-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Sid,

Now, Sid, that does not express much hope and change fomr you, now does it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

JK, I agree with you. They have to stop pandering to the votes they expect to get from letting anyone in and then providing health care, schooling and pinning the whole family down with "anchor" kids born here.

LWW
04-23-2010, 04:21 PM
How dare they think they can disobey the will of dearest leader.

LWW

pooltchr
04-23-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm with ya, Sid. If the Fed isn't going to enforce their own laws, let the states make and enforce them on their own.

Even is Washington won't deport them, if all 50 states outlaw them, there is only one place in this country left for them. Let them move to DC!!!!!!!!

Steve

Sev
04-23-2010, 06:31 PM
Its a good day in America.

pooltchr
04-23-2010, 09:00 PM
Of course, our president calls the Arizona law "misguided". In his mind, if it's good for America, it can't be good.

What an idiot!!!

Steve

Sid_Vicious
04-23-2010, 10:24 PM
Let's just hope that the federal level does not reverse this important precedent AZ is setting. When you sit and listen to the "State of Arizona's Union" with the hospitals closing, the fact that Phoenix has become the capital of kidnappings by statistics, and crime has become like Gotham City in a Batman movie, what the living hell would you do living in a state like that!? All of the border states, their emergency rooms being packed, while real citizens sit for hours upon hours watching some illegal get treated for injuries most like from a street fight. I've been behind one of these here in North Texas during a visit for an emergency,,,they had to have an interpreter for god's sake! No!, any body who wants to pander to or pu$$y and ignore ILLEGALITY issues, should be made to move to come city near Nogales on the States side for a year, no body guards, just a 3-2 little home and a 2 car garage.

You see, it's a scary wildfire in AZ with this crime and destitution from the influx of the IAs. GWB wimped out on the issue, and now the left/liberals, I guess that I'll admit that parallel yet it stings...all seem to just do nothing, probably for their votes coming around. McCain certainly let it all slide during the elections.

Now, I totally doubt very much that the AZ cops are going to be pulling over low riding Chevys with fuzz balls on the rear view mirror, and the bouncing dog head in the back glass, or brown skinned slummy looking pedestrians to just do the gestapo routine. With this law now it's enough for the cops there to be able to actually arrest criminals during general stops, OR TO BE MORE DIRECT, when an accident happens and the drives has no DL or other identification. In other words, enforce the f-n laws we have in place. I'm tellin' ya, many, many life long injuries and deaths happen every day and the cops yield to these undocumented drivers, with a slap on the hand.

I've never literally known a lottery winner, never known anyone who Ed McMann delivered a million too, and I have lived for 57 years, yet I HAVE known people personally within the last 10 years here in Texas who have directly been nearly killed on the road, and the LEOs let the sonzobitches without any IDS leave the scene. Would they let me go? Me with some revenue to collect? You see my point?

Be it a Rep or a Dem, both are wrong if they don't get behind Arizona. Politics really sucks. Again, I sure wish George Bush had used his capital after the second election to actually seal off this border, but even with the House, the Senate behind him, and him in the WH...he added to the problem and let this skate. All politicians are traitors if they don't back AZ. sid

Sid

Alfie
04-23-2010, 11:12 PM
Is it time for a mandatory national ID card?
Could we be required to carry our papers with us at all times?

LWW
04-24-2010, 04:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alfie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it time for a mandatory national ID card?
Could we be required to carry our papers with us at all times? </div></div>

It's been time.

LWW

Qtec
04-24-2010, 05:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>This whole damn country should at least detain, prosecute </span>and/or deport <span style='font-size: 17pt'>anyone with a suspicious personality.</span> </div></div>

Does that include white folks?

Do you think its reasonable for a Mexican origin USA citizen to be stopped by the police for no reason other than the colour of their skin?

It cracks me up how QUICKLY the 'USCON' guys.... <span style='font-size: 17pt'>DROP the USCON</span>... when it suits them.

Apparently, if you are an American citizen with a sun tan, you have no rights. The police can stop you whenever they want.

Q

pooltchr
04-24-2010, 06:41 AM
If you took the time to actually read the AZ law, you would know that everything in it is well within any federal guidelines, and in no way goes against the constitution. If fact, some of the wording is verbatim from the federal immigration law.

Police are not allowed to target any particular group of people. If, in the course of performing their duties, they find someone who has an expired visa, or can not produce some form of documentation, they will be detained, and if it turns out they are here illegally, deported.

The law simply requires all foreign visitors to have their documentation.
If I come to your country, would I not be required to have a passport? What's the difference. All they are doing is asking people to provide some documentation that they are here legally.

Steve

LWW
04-24-2010, 06:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Do you think its reasonable for a Mexican origin USA citizen to be stopped by the police for no reason other than the colour of their skin?

Q

</div></div>

No.

But, as usual, your "POINT" is completely invalid as it isn't in the bill and has no basis in reality.

A very poor Alinsky tactic.

LWW

LWW
04-24-2010, 06:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you took the time to actually read the AZ law, you would know that everything in it is well within any federal guidelines, and in no way goes against the constitution. If fact, some of the wording is verbatim from the federal immigration law.

Police are not allowed to target any particular group of people. If, in the course of performing their duties, they find someone who has an expired visa, or can not produce some form of documentation, they will be detained, and if it turns out they are here illegally, deported.

The law simply requires all foreign visitors to have their documentation.
If I come to your country, would I not be required to have a passport? What's the difference. All they are doing is asking people to provide some documentation that they are here legally.

Steve </div></div>

Please cease and desist in using fact and logic when discussing things with a leftist.

And ... BTW ... what is this madness of which you speak ... read the bill?

LWW

pooltchr
04-24-2010, 09:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And ... BTW ... what is this madness of which you speak ... read the bill?

LWW </div></div>

It's a lilly little personality quirk of mine...I like being informed.

Steve

LWW
04-24-2010, 11:25 AM
You have been charged with thoughtcrime comrade.

Room 101.

LWW

Sid_Vicious
04-24-2010, 02:25 PM
"Apparently, if you are an American citizen with a sun tan, you have no rights. The police can stop you whenever they want."

This is the scare tactic always used in political exchanges like this. But yes, white people acting strangely and found without identification, should be detained for further analysis. There is profiling going on all the time for roadway stops, and people have accepted it. Take Interstate 40 going through Memphis. Texans have relentlessly being stopped and detained for drug checks, especially the vans with hispanic looking drivers. Sometimes the excuse is only that the vehicle was doing 49 when entering the interstate when the ramp speed is posted as 45. So, don't for a minute think that profiling isn't being used right now, and that a Texan can just be showing a Texas plate, that's all.

My point is that it's always been the LEOs job to be vigilent, but they've been specifically blocked from doing "too much of their job" in high IA areas. That's BS! "Oh Mr. Cop, you can't find a higher percentage of crimes on the east side, that's not right." Our cops even had to give preliminary notice in advance before scheduled traffic stops. WTF! sid

Chopstick
04-26-2010, 11:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you think its reasonable for a Mexican origin USA citizen to be stopped by the police for no reason other than the colour of their skin?

<span style="color: #3333FF">Why not? The Dutch police do it. They even maintain a statistical database of crimes committed by various ethnic groups to justify it.</span>

It cracks me up how QUICKLY the 'USCON' guys.... <span style='font-size: 17pt'>DROP the USCON</span>... when it suits them.

<span style="color: #3333FF">This has nothing to do with the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution is for U.S citizens.</span>


Apparently, if you are an American citizen with a sun tan, you have no rights. The police can stop you whenever they want.

<span style="color: #3333FF">Oh really. An illegal alien runs down your best friend since childhood, has no drivers license, no proof of insurance, no vehicle registration, and you think it is OK for the police officer to let them go while they are still trying to drag your friend out from under the car. Is that your idea of Constitutional rights?

Police in every major city in America set up check points where they stop everyone at random times. Mostly they are checking for drunk drivers but they check drivers licenses and registrations also. They have been doing this for decades. An American without a valid drivers license would be arrested and his car impounded. Illegal aliens get off scott free because the spineless liberal government has ordered the police to take no action against them. How is this constitutional?

One in three federal convicts is an illegal alien. Illegal aliens with multiple felony convictions are allowed to remain free in this country. There was a recent incident where an illegal with 8 felony convictions killed two teenage girls in Tennessee. Is it right that they died from someone who is not supposed to be here in the first place. More Americans were killed inside their own homes by illegal aliens than were killed in the Iraq war zone during the same time period.

How is this justice? Why is it different for AZ to do something that your own people have been doing for years?

</span>

Q

</div></div>

Deeman3
04-26-2010, 01:02 PM
How dare the citizens of the state of AZ try to protect their citizens by requiring that illegals be identified and sent home? What has this PC country come to when you are falsely charged with racism when you just try to keep your state and town safe fomr thugs.

Profiling? Is it Canadians or French trying to come across our southern border? No, it is Mexicans and other Latin people. We already are a laughing stock to the Islamic terrorists for stoping grandmas to take their shoes off in airports. If you are a legal American citizen of Mexican descent, we are trying to protect you as well. If you have to show your I.D. after getting pulled over for a stop, how is that differnt from me having to show mine?

What a bunch of sniveling crybabies? Just because the Dutch and most other countries have sold out for political correctness, we don't have to. What, in this world, is so wrong with protecting your country and borders from criminals?

This is getting out of control. It is getting dangerous. The odd expectation that a person will beocme a citizen and contribute to society is now officially replaced with whomever can collect the most losers protecters gets their way. Shameful. I know Q does not know any better but most of us should.

Qtec
04-26-2010, 04:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not? The Dutch police do it. </div></div>

Its the Law and I think its a good one. You have to carry ID but you don't have to carry your birth certificate and it applies to everyone, not just suspect illegal immigrants.
Then again, we are a Socialist country!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> PHOENIX – A Valley man says he was pulled over Wednesday morning and questioned when he arrived at a weigh station for his commercial vehicle along Val Vista and the 202 freeway.

Abdon, who did not want to use his last name, says he provided several key pieces of information but what he provided apparently was not what was needed.

He tells 3TV, “I don't think it's correct, if I have to take my birth certificate with me all the time.”

3TV caught up with Abdon after he was released from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office in central Phoenix. He and his wife, Jackie, are still upset about what happened to him.

Jackie tells 3TV, “It's still something awful to be targeted. I can't even imagine what he felt, people watching like he was some type of criminal.”

Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>He provided his commercial driver’s license and a social security number but ended up handcuffed.</span>

An agent called his wife and she had to leave work to drive home and grab other documents like his birth certificate.

Jackie explains, “I have his social security card as well and mine. He's legit. It's the first time it's ever happened.”

Both were born in the United States and say they are now both infuriated that keeping important documents safely at home is no longer an option. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has nothing to do with the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution is for U.S citizens. </div></div>

The guy above is a US citizen.

I agree with you that illegal immigrants are a problem and something has to be done about it but this is not the way.

Q

LWW
04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
And that is a tragic exception.

Now ... what caused this?

The answer is leftist policy and refusal to follow the laws which has led to things such as DL's being corrupted and possible to obtain although one is illegal.

Next deflection?

LWW

Qtec
04-26-2010, 04:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What, in this world, is so wrong with protecting your country and borders from criminals? </div></div>

Nothing! Why don't you try it!

On July 20, 1969, the U.S. Apollo 11 lunar module landed on the moon with computers that were knitted together!
49 years later the USA can't build a fence or secure ONE border!

If Govt really wanted to secure the US-Mexican border they could. Geez, you guys built the Panama Canal, the Hoover Dam and the Brooklyn Bridge but you can't stop illegals from walking into the USA?!

Why is that?





Q

Qtec
04-26-2010, 05:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And that is a tragic exception. </div></div>

Brilliant. What insight. Are you now a soothsayer? Can you see the future?
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>You dork, the guy was arrested BEFORE the Law was even in force!</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And this incident happened before Gov. Jan Brewer signed the SB1070 into law on Friday. </div></div> link.......again (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-driver-forced-show-birth-certifica)

Its the FIRST sentence below the video.

<u>Watch the video</u>.

Just for fun, explain how this guy is a 'tragic exception' when he is probably the first guy arrested under this new Law?
LMAO

Q

pooltchr
04-26-2010, 05:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Geez, you guys built the Panama Canal, the Hoover Dam and the Brooklyn Bridge but you can't stop illegals from walking into the USA?!

Why is that?





Q </div></div>

Because the government doesn't want to! You may have noticed, but Washington's decisions have very little to do with the will of the people any more.

Almost 70% of Americans agree with the new AZ law. Obama doesn't. Bush wouldn't have approved either. There is a political agenda greater than just the security of our boarders.

Steve

Qtec
04-26-2010, 05:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

NEW YORK, April 1 (UPI) -- New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg says golf fairways would suffer if illegal immigrants were returned to their native country.

"You and I are beneficiaries of these jobs," Bloomberg told his WABC-AM radio co-host, John Gambling. "You and I both play golf; who takes care of the greens and the fairways in your golf course?"

However, Robert Heaney, general manager of Deepdale Golf Club -- a Long Island course where Bloomberg often plays -- told The New York Daily News …
</div></div>

Q

Sid_Vicious
04-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Steve is exactly correct, and these on-purpose selection of the elected officials to NOT uphold their sworn oath to protect, serve and enforce the laws of the country, should make for treason. Arizona has been pushed up against a wall, and they are doing what they have been forced to do here. What are they doing? Actually they are simply enforcing federal laws on the books themselves. I hope that AZ is only the first state to begin these actions. Chopstick's re-in-actment his lifelong friend getting dragged under a car that was road racing by an IA was precisely accurate. IA released on the spot!!! There was another example I learned from another co-worker, his mother in law had two friends going to a birthday party in Allen Texas, hardly 5 miles from my country home, they were head-on'd at a redlight by an illegal, absolutely no legal documents, and it took two air flight copters to try and save these innocent passengers. Guess what, that illegal was also released on a small fine and his promise to appear, never even detained!

I don't like being against you Q, it's not natural, but this situation has totally become so bad, that only the real, legal American citizens are the ones being held accountable for these laws on the books. These two examples were ones I became aware of within just a few weeks, right here in my back door, and personal. Just imagine the results that a show like "60 Minutes" could surface on this particular topic of these traffic accidents. It's just wrong, and all politicians in Washington are all to blame, both now, and previously over many administrations. All the politicians today in Washington now are lining up to give the latino voters BJs to get their votes, while friends I have, have nearly been killed! sid

Stretch
04-27-2010, 02:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve is exactly correct, and these on-purpose selection of the elected officials to NOT uphold their sworn oath to protect, serve and enforce the laws of the country, should make for treason. Arizona has been pushed up against a wall, and they are doing what they have been forced to do here. What are they doing? Actually they are simply enforcing federal laws on the books themselves. I hope that AZ is only the first state to begin these actions. Chopstick's re-in-actment his lifelong friend getting dragged under a car that was road racing by an IA was precisely accurate. IA released on the spot!!! There was another example I learned from another co-worker, his mother in law had two friends going to a birthday party in Allen Texas, hardly 5 miles from my country home, they were head-on'd at a redlight by an illegal, absolutely no legal documents, and it took two air flight copters to try and save these innocent passengers. Guess what, that illegal was also released on a small fine and his promise to appear, never even detained!

I don't like being against you Q, it's not natural, but this situation has totally become so bad, that only the real, legal American citizens are the ones being held accountable for these laws on the books. These two examples were ones I became aware of within just a few weeks, right here in my back door, and personal. Just imagine the results that a show like "60 Minutes" could surface on this particular topic of these traffic accidents. It's just wrong, and all politicians in Washington are all to blame, both now, and previously over many administrations. All the politicians today in Washington now are lining up to give the latino voters BJs to get their votes, while friends I have, have nearly been killed! sid </div></div>

Sid, that's shocking that an illegal can walk on the spot like that in the case of an accident or crime. I totaly agree that your border states respond to this flood of illegals. They have to live with it so it's only fare that they respond with whatever it takes. Obviously the Feds can't or won't lock up the boarder so......St.

LWW
04-27-2010, 04:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And that is a tragic exception. </div></div>

Brilliant. What insight. Are you now a soothsayer? Can you see the future?
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>You dork, the guy was arrested BEFORE the Law was even in force!</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And this incident happened before Gov. Jan Brewer signed the SB1070 into law on Friday. </div></div> link.......again (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-driver-forced-show-birth-certifica)

Its the FIRST sentence below the video.

<u>Watch the video</u>.

Just for fun, explain how this guy is a 'tragic exception' when he is probably the first guy arrested under this new Law?
LMAO

Q </div></div>

Yes I can see the future ... one where our borders are secure and our documents system returned to it's intent which would preclude such acts happening again.

LWW

LWW
04-27-2010, 04:10 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Govt really wanted to secure the US-Mexican border they could. Geez, you guys built the Panama Canal, the Hoover Dam and the Brooklyn Bridge but you can't stop illegals from walking into the USA?!

Why is that?





Q </div></div>

Thank you ... it is because the feds don't want to enforce the laws.

The demokooks have fought this tooth and nail because "undocumented workers" are in reality undocumented democrat voters. The demokooks have pushed laws making the obtaining of a driver's license ridiculously easy and then compounded that with laws making it possible to register to vote with just a driver's license.

The republichickens have fought this tooth and nail because many businesses demand the lower cost labor.

What's amazing is that the Sharptons and Jacksons of the world fight immigration enforcement even though blacks are disproportionately harmed by illegals.

LWW

Chopstick
04-27-2010, 08:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What, in this world, is so wrong with protecting your country and borders from criminals? </div></div>

Nothing! Why don't you try it!

<span style="color: #3333FF">Bravo Mr Q! I wish we had rep points over here.</span>

On July 20, 1969, the U.S. Apollo 11 lunar module landed on the moon with computers that were knitted together!
49 years later the USA can't build a fence or secure ONE border!

If Govt really wanted to secure the US-Mexican border they could. Geez, you guys built the Panama Canal, the Hoover Dam and the Brooklyn Bridge but you can't stop illegals from walking into the USA?!

Why is that?

<span style="color: #3333FF">OK. Here is the answer that no one is talking about. How do you think the government plans to pay for all of there insane spending? By the way those spending plans only benifit and enrich themselves and their friends. I challenge anyone to tell me about one person they know that got a job produced for them as a result of 750 billion spent in stimulus. I don't know of a single one. How about the 5 trillion we spent on Affirmative Action? Anybody know anyone that directly benefited from AA?

Anyhow, back to my point. The answer is that politicians have decided that the easiest way to pay the bill is to dramatically increase the population. Increase the tax base. More people, more taxes.</span>

Q </div></div>

Sev
04-27-2010, 05:39 PM
The good Reverend AL will be on the seen shortly.
Perhaps he will martyr himself in the hot AZ sun.