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Deeman3
05-06-2010, 01:10 PM
<span style="color: #FF0000"> As John Stossel says so well, "Give me a break!" </span>



A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee.

The $100 million project, called the Cordoba House, is proposed for the old Burlington Coat Factory building at Park Place and Broadway, just two blocks from the World Trade Center site.

"I think it will be a wonderful asset to the community," said committee Chairman Ro Sheffe.

Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, who helped found the Cordoba Initiative following the 9/11 attacks, said the project is intended to foster better relations between the West and Muslims.

He said the glass-and-steel building would include a 500-seat performing arts venue, a swimming pool and a basketball court. "There's nothing like it," said Rauf, adding that facilities will be open to all New Yorkers.

Daisy Khan, executive director of the Cordoba Initiative, said donations from prestigious groups such as the Ford Foundation and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund would pay for the construction.

Khan said the project has received little opposition.

"Whatever concerns anybody has, we have to make sure to educate them that we are an asset to the community," Khan said.

Khan said her group hopes construction on the project will begin by the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Once built, 1,000 to 2,000 Muslims are expected to pray at the mosque every Friday, she said.

No one at last night's meeting protested the project. But some 9/11 families said they found the proposal offensive because the terrorists who launched the attacks were Muslim.

pooltchr
05-06-2010, 01:31 PM
I have to wonder if Isreal wanted to build a facility in the same block "in the interest of bettering relations", would that also be considered an asset to the community?

Steve

Sid_Vicious
05-06-2010, 02:03 PM
Yea, or if the Christian Church has one there with the Ten Commandments statued out in front, just like many of the "10s" which was yanked off other sites around the country after 911. Same politically correct rules should apply. I am sick and tired of us here having to be the one to have to take last place. I say, tell them to go to hell with their Muslim building, just out of sheer principle if nothing else!!!sid

BTW, note the contributing names/foundations here. I'd bitch if I'd donated to either fund. Ford Foundation and RBF, PAYING for construction!

"Daisy Khan, executive director of the Cordoba Initiative, said donations from prestigious groups such as the Ford Foundation and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund would pay for the construction."

wolfdancer
05-06-2010, 02:21 PM
I think it a "slap in the face" to the families of the 9/11 victims. I also think it might become a $100m "bonfire"

Deeman3
05-06-2010, 03:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it a "slap in the face" to the families of the 9/11 victims. I also think it might become a $100m "bonfire" </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Me likes the way you think Kemosabi! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

pooltchr
05-06-2010, 03:21 PM
Maybe some terrorist will decide flying a plane into it would be a good idea!

Steve

(Editors note: I am not in any way advocating terrorist activities.......just thinkin....)

Sid_Vicious
05-06-2010, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe some terrorist will decide flying a plane into it would be a good idea!

Steve

(Editors note: I am not in any way advocating terrorist activities.......just thinkin....) </div></div>

I just bet that there'll be more homeland defense protection for that building than our own home grown buildings. You know the old saying "Bending over backwards"? Just like the illegal Mexicans being let go at serious accident scenes and their front place in line in the emergency rooms...this Muslim architecture will get first priority as well. sid

LWW
05-06-2010, 04:05 PM
I would suggest that the best solution would be if we actually returned to the principles included in, and behind the writing of, the 1st amendment of the COTUS.

Islam should be neither established nor impeded by the state ... neither should Christianity, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Zorastrianism, Paganism, Voodoo, Santa Maria, or the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

LWW

Sid_Vicious
05-06-2010, 05:39 PM
What does "should be neither established" mean? If that refers to politics marrying itself to religion, then we had eight years of screwing that up, with 2 bogus elections...sid

pooltchr
05-06-2010, 07:01 PM
Sid, you may have a point. We have had several presidents since JFK who all claimed to be guided by God.

Now we have one who believes he IS God!!!!!!!

Steve

LWW
05-07-2010, 02:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If that refers to politics marrying itself to religion, then we had eight years of screwing that up, with 2 bogus elections...sid </div></div>

When has religion ever been married to citizenship in America?

The answer is never.

If your idea of no establishment is having only people of no professed faith holding high office then you have very little comprehension of what the amendment means in it's original unamended context.

The idea of a "separation" between church and state being the idea is a myth, plain and simple.

The intent was that things such as voting rights, property rights, rates of taxation and such could never be based upon one's declared faith or lack thereof. Under the Crown things such as the right to vote required membership in the Church of England.

Also note that it only pertains to the feds, and doesn't prohibit states from actually having a required religion. In fact, several of the original 13 did exactly this and their was no legal contest brought against it. Instead, there was a free market approach ... states with such prohibitive laws suffered population loss and within a short time all state constitutions mirrored the federal model.

The original intent of the COTUS, before it became fugged up by statists, was that we operated under a lose confederation of independent states on the basis that it was nearly impossible to escape the tyranny of the federal govt ... and any law which restricts a citizen is tyranny of a sort.

Put another way, if the county you lived in passed ordinances which the majority found agreeable ... but you did not ... it was a fairly easy fix in that you could move to the next county. If the state passed something you disagreed with then the fix was still available in that you could move to the next state. However, if the law was federal you were screwed unless you wanted to abandon your citizenship.

Most things we allow the feds to run today are rightfully states rights issues.

LWW

LWW
05-07-2010, 02:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sid, you may have a point. We have had several presidents since JFK who all claimed to be guided by God.

Steve </div></div>

I would hope that anyone holding the office would seek guidance from the Creator.

LWW

Qtec
05-07-2010, 04:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daisy Khan, executive director of the Muslim society, described her vision of a center led by Muslims,<u> but serving the community as a whole.</u>

"It will have a real community feel, to celebrate the pluralism in the United States, as well as in the Islamic religion," Khan said. "It will also serve as a major platform for amplifying the silent voice of the majority of Muslims who have nothing to do with extremist ideologies. It will counter the extremist momentum."

Others such as Barry Zelman said the site's location will be a painful reminder.

"[The 9/11 terrorists] did this in the name of Islam," Zelman said. "It's a sacred ground where these people died, where my brother was murdered, and to be in the shadows of that religion, it's just hypocritical and sacrilegious. "

However, Khan emphasized that the attacks killed Muslims, too.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"Three hundred of the victims were Muslim, that's 10 percent of the victims," she said. "We are Americans too. The 9/11 tragedy hurt everybody including the Muslim community. We are all in this together and together we have to fight against extremism and terrorism."</span></div></div>

Q

Sev
05-07-2010, 05:31 AM
I think they should put Jewish temple directly opposite of it.

LWW
05-07-2010, 05:44 AM
If I were Jewish I would test their idea of serving the entire community claim.

Perhaps they would welcome me with open arms? If so, it would be an awesome move towards world peace.

If not, it would expose a fraud.

Here is a relationship from a devout Muslim and a devout Jew that worked. It's a shame that this isn't brought up more often as an example in tolerance:

http://abritishman.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/howard-cosell-and-muhammad-ali-at-the-coverage-of-the-1972-munich-olympics.jpg

LWW

Gayle in MD
05-07-2010, 10:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #FF0000"> As John Stossel says so well, "Give me a break!" </span>



A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee.

The $100 million project, called the Cordoba House, is proposed for the old Burlington Coat Factory building at Park Place and Broadway, just two blocks from the World Trade Center site.

"I think it will be a wonderful asset to the community," said committee Chairman Ro Sheffe.

Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, who helped found the Cordoba Initiative following the 9/11 attacks, said the project is intended to foster better relations between the West and Muslims.

He said the glass-and-steel building would include a 500-seat performing arts venue, a swimming pool and a basketball court. "There's nothing like it," said Rauf, adding that facilities will be open to all New Yorkers.

Daisy Khan, executive director of the Cordoba Initiative, said donations from prestigious groups such as the Ford Foundation and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund would pay for the construction.

Khan said the project has received little opposition.

"Whatever concerns anybody has, we have to make sure to educate them that we are an asset to the community," Khan said.

Khan said her group hopes construction on the project will begin by the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Once built, 1,000 to 2,000 Muslims are expected to pray at the mosque every Friday, she said.

No one at last night's meeting protested the project. But some 9/11 families said they found the proposal offensive because the terrorists who launched the attacks were Muslim.



</div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">After 9/11, I wrote a post on here in which I stated that the best thing we could build on the site of our national tragedy, would be a center for religious unity, understanding and mutual acceptance. A place where all the religious leaders of the world could meet and example the importance of religious cohesion amonst the various religious philosophies of the world.

Since religious differences between religions have been the cause of so much warring, killing and suffering in the world, what better way to advance mankind, than to devote one place in the world, where all beliefs are accepted, and respected.

When one walks through the National Cemetary, and sees all of the graves, with every religion represented, and many of them Islamic, or Muslim, it has quite an impact.

We are all Americans, many of us Muslim, or Islamic, and I am thankful that I grew up in a home where my parents taught me to respect all people, not just those who are just like me.

To hate all Muslims, because of the relative few who are among the radical element, is purely ignorant, IMO.

G.</span>

pooltchr
05-07-2010, 10:53 AM
If they were building a center for all religions to come together in unity, that would be one thing. What makes you think that a mosque will be used to that means?
If they were building a temple, would that be the same thing?

Steve

Sid_Vicious
05-07-2010, 12:38 PM
I'll say one good thing about this location...NYC will surely have lots of electronic cameras capturing the congregation member's faces 24-7-365days, and I hope they breech the doors on that place when Mr. & Mrs. Terrorist shows up. It wouldn't be profiling if everybody going in was captured on film, cuz there are some anglo Muslims in the mix. I'm not saying I hate all Muslims, I just don't trust the ones that I don't hate. Take that weasel that planted the bombs in Time Square. I'm sick of seeing his smug, smiling face!

It is inappropriate to put that mosque there, plain and simple. As an example of double standards, I read where high school students wearing the stars and stripes was expelled because of cinco d'mayo, because it could incite trouble. What is this mosque there already doing? Inciting trouble. sid

pooltchr
05-07-2010, 12:42 PM
But, Sid...we only discriminate against Christian Americans. To stop the Mosque would offend Muslims, and we must not do that.

Steve

Deeman3
05-07-2010, 01:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



</div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">After 9/11, I wrote a post on here in which I stated that the best thing we could build on the site of our national tragedy, would be a center for religious unity, understanding and mutual acceptance. A place where all the religious leaders of the world could meet and example the importance of religious cohesion amonst the various religious philosophies of the world.

<span style="color: #CC0000">That would be inspiring in a perfect world. </span>

Since religious differences between religions have been the cause of so much warring, killing and suffering in the world, what better way to advance mankind, than to devote one place in the world, where all beliefs are accepted, and respected.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> O f course, seeing that they bomb more Mosques than they do churches, that might not be such a great idea for Ground Zero.</span>

When one walks through the National Cemetary, and sees all of the graves, with every religion represented, and many of them Islamic, or Muslim, it has quite an impact.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> On rational Americans, not on many Muslims.</span>

We are all Americans, many of us Muslim, or Islamic, and I am thankful that I grew up in a home where my parents taught me to respect all people, not just those who are just like me.

<span style="color: #CC0000">Taught the same, until they start attempting to kill you. NOt all, but a sizable portion of their flock. </span>

To hate all Muslims, because of the relative few who are among the radical element, is purely ignorant, IMO.

G.</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Of course, it a silly accusation to think not wanting to build a Mosque right were they killed a bunch of Americans is, although PC foir may of you, probably an insult to those who lost family at the hands of Muslims.

It is an easy call to name anyone who questions a decision as racist, zenophobic or something unpleasant but it is wearing thin, not with the left, of course, but everyone else. It is very easy to follow the Al Sharpton model here but now that the moderates and non-affiliated voters are not buying it, it rings hollow to all but the most far out on the left.

You can effectively only play that card a few hundred times and have it still work. How irrational do you have to be to think that not building a symbol of the force that destroyed it might be offensive to the victim's families. We all understand that all Muslims did not do this! Now the UN is putting Iran on the Women's Rights Commission! Not a stir from you on that! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

If they put a statue of Bill Clinton right next to a Child Sex Abuse Clinic, it might offend a few folks. If they had a statue of a Catholic Priest next to a memorial to child sex crime victims, it might be similar.

It is not necessary, to be liked by the world, the pretend that it was not Muslims that did 9/11! The Muslims that already hate us still will. The ones that don't will understand why some don't want a reminder of who did this even if it cost some liberal emarrassment at cocktail parties in Washington.

If we hated Muslims, in general, there would be hate crimes in this country after 9/11 and even now. Still, more Muslims are slaughtered by Muslims than we ever did or will. </span> [/quote]

Sev
05-07-2010, 06:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were Jewish I would test their idea of serving the entire community claim.

Perhaps they would welcome me with open arms? If so, it would be an awesome move towards world peace.

If not, it would expose a fraud.

Here is a relationship from a devout Muslim and a devout Jew that worked. It's a shame that this isn't brought up more often as an example in tolerance:

http://abritishman.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/howard-cosell-and-muhammad-ali-at-the-coverage-of-the-1972-munich-olympics.jpg

LWW </div></div>

Those 2 were quite the pair. I miss Howard. He was unique.

Gayle in MD
05-08-2010, 10:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



</div></div>


<span style="color: #000066">After 9/11, I wrote a post on here in which I stated that the best thing we could build on the site of our national tragedy, would be a center for religious unity, understanding and mutual acceptance. A place where all the religious leaders of the world could meet and example the importance of religious cohesion amonst the various religious philosophies of the world.

<span style="color: #CC0000">That would be inspiring in a perfect world. </span>

Since religious differences between religions have been the cause of so much warring, killing and suffering in the world, what better way to advance mankind, than to devote one place in the world, where all beliefs are accepted, and respected.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> O f course, seeing that they bomb more Mosques than they do churches, that might not be such a great idea for Ground Zero.</span>

When one walks through the National Cemetary, and sees all of the graves, with every religion represented, and many of them Islamic, or Muslim, it has quite an impact.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> On rational Americans, not on many Muslims.</span>

We are all Americans, many of us Muslim, or Islamic, and I am thankful that I grew up in a home where my parents taught me to respect all people, not just those who are just like me.

<span style="color: #CC0000">Taught the same, until they start attempting to kill you. NOt all, but a sizable portion of their flock. </span>

To hate all Muslims, because of the relative few who are among the radical element, is purely ignorant, IMO.

G.</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Of course, it a silly accusation to think not wanting to build a Mosque right were they killed a bunch of Americans is, although PC foir may of you, probably an insult to those who lost family at the hands of Muslims.

It is an easy call to name anyone who questions a decision as racist, zenophobic or something unpleasant but it is wearing thin, not with the left, of course, but everyone else. It is very easy to follow the Al Sharpton model here but now that the moderates and non-affiliated voters are not buying it, it rings hollow to all but the most far out on the left.

You can effectively only play that card a few hundred times and have it still work. How irrational do you have to be to think that not building a symbol of the force that destroyed it might be offensive to the victim's families. We all understand that all Muslims did not do this! Now the UN is putting Iran on the Women's Rights Commission! Not a stir from you on that! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

If they put a statue of Bill Clinton right next to a Child Sex Abuse Clinic, it might offend a few folks. If they had a statue of a Catholic Priest next to a memorial to child sex crime victims, it might be similar.

It is not necessary, to be liked by the world, the pretend that it was not Muslims that did 9/11! The Muslims that already hate us still will. The ones that don't will understand why some don't want a reminder of who did this even if it cost some liberal emarrassment at cocktail parties in Washington.

If we hated Muslims, in general, there would be hate crimes in this country after 9/11 and even now. Still, more Muslims are slaughtered by Muslims than we ever did or will. </span> </div></div> [/quote]

Well, you have certainly taken my statements way off in a direction that I don't even recognize, however, I have not studied this issues about what is to be built in N.Y., and have not formed an opinion about it. Hence, my post did not address it specifically.

My only point, is that religious interaction between religious leaders, can accomplish much more progress in future peace, than more religious people killing other religious people, over clashing religious ideologies, which in my world, aren't even realistic to be fighting over in the first place...

As for your statement that there are more Islamists who want to kill us, than who are peaceful, given the vast number of Islamists in the world, You'd never be able to prove that to me, and in fact, that statement sounds, forgive me, quite ridiculous, to me.

G.

Deeman3
05-08-2010, 11:05 AM
[quote=Gayle in MD
As for your statement that there are more Islamists who want to kill us, than who are peaceful, given the vast number of Islamists in the world, You'd never be able to prove that to me, and in fact, that statement sounds, forgive me, quite ridiculous, to me.

G. [/quote]

<span style="color: #FF0000">You are going to have to show me where I said there are more Islamics who want top kill us, than who are peaceful. I re-read my stuff and don't recall ever saying that. If I did, it was not intended. Please show me that statement. </span>

Gayle in MD
05-08-2010, 11:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Gayle in MD
As for your statement that there are more Islamists who want to kill us, than who are peaceful, given the vast number of Islamists in the world, You'd never be able to prove that to me, and in fact, that statement sounds, forgive me, quite ridiculous, to me.

G. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">You are going to have to show me where I said there are more Islamics who want top kill us, than who are peaceful. I re-read my stuff and don't recall ever saying that. If I did, it was not intended. Please show me that statement. </span> [/quote]

<span style="color: #000066">You're correct, you didn't say that. My apologies. however, why did you write this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they put a statue of Bill Clinton right next to a Child Sex Abuse Clinic, it might offend a few folks. If they had a statue of a Catholic Priest next to a memorial to child sex crime victims, it might be similar.
</div></div> </span>

I know of no children who have been abused by Bill Clinton. and surely, you are not refering to the 23 year old woman who had been having an affair with her married college professor for years, could you?

Ok, your post os full of pot shots, I am simply stating, that I honor efforts to solve problems at the conference table, not with wars and guns.

As for the mosque, as I stated, I have not really studied it, but just my knee jerk response, to me, it smacks of demonizing an entire segment of people for the actions of a few fringe, radical elements.

Many who died on 9/11 were actually Muslims. Using the building of a Mosque, as cause for outrage, lays along the lines of lumping all of one religion, into one category, which, I thought we didn't do in this country, but as I said, I have not had the time to think this through. As far as I'm concerned, it's no worse than what Coulter said about the 9/11 widows, and in fact, not as bad, IMO.

G.

wolfdancer
05-08-2010, 11:24 AM
Gayle, you may have a more nelightened view about Islam then the general populace, myself included.....but I can't think of a worse idea then a Mosque at ground zero.
Well, maybe a "Six Flags over Auschwitz" amusement park ???

Gayle in MD
05-08-2010, 11:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, you may have a more nelightened view about Islam then the general populace, myself included.....but I can't think of a worse idea then a Mosque at ground zero.
Well, maybe a "Six Flags over Auschwitz" amusement park ??? </div></div>

Well I don't know how close it's supposed to be, do you?

I've driven around what was then a big hole in the earth, ground zero, and from what I recall, it didn't sound to me that the location was supposed to be built right at ground zero.

But as I said, It really hasn't been on my radar, as the oil spill has completly consumed whatever attention I had available these past few days.

But, you are right, it does sound like it could be offensive to some people who lost their loved ones on 9/11....if it is in fact, right at ground zero.

G.

pooltchr
05-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Does "close enough to have been damaged in the attack" qualify?

Steve

Gayle in MD
05-13-2010, 10:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Gayle in MD
As for your statement that there are more Islamists who want to kill us, than who are peaceful, given the vast number of Islamists in the world, You'd never be able to prove that to me, and in fact, that statement sounds, forgive me, quite ridiculous, to me.

G. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">You are going to have to show me where I said there are more Islamics who want top kill us, than who are peaceful. I re-read my stuff and don't recall ever saying that. If I did, it was not intended. Please show me that statement. </span> [/quote]

On further re-reading, I think it was surely suggested....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Taught the same, until they start attempting to kill you. NOt all, but a sizable portion of their flock.
</div></div>

Here you are saying that a sizable portion of Muslims want to kill us?

I do not agree, nor can you prove such a statement.

Many Muslim Americans were killed at the WTC. Many of their graves lay in Arlington. I think it is completely wrong to present all Muslims as radical terrorists, or even call a sizable number of them as people who ae out to kill us, given the number of Muslims in the world.

G.

G.

Deeman3
05-13-2010, 12:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

On further re-reading, I think it was surely suggested....

<span style="color: #FF0000"> A gross exageration on your part.</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Taught the same, until they start attempting to kill you. NOt all, but a sizable portion of their flock.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">So, I guess it comes down to what a sizable portion of them is. It might be 3% or may be as high as 20% neither of us knows, for sure. Still even a small percentage of the Muslim population is a pretty sizable group. If it was only the occasional show bomber, the guy killing other soldiers in Texas, or people trying to make bombs out of firecrackers in NYC, I might agree with you. Many countries, Pakistan, Iraq and many other have this as the most touted, if not popularly elected view.

I said in my statement that not all Muslims are doing this, some are victims, most unwilling to fight over it.</span>

Here you are saying that a sizable portion of Muslims want to kill us?

I do not agree, nor can you prove such a statement.

Many Muslim Americans were killed at the WTC. Many of their graves lay in Arlington. I think it is completely wrong to present all Muslims as radical terrorists, or even call a sizable number of them as people who ae out to kill us, given the number of Muslims in the world.

G.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Again, it is you, not I, saying "all Muslims" are doing anything and trying to infer that I said it. Improve those reading skills and don't look for somethting that is not there. It is the very same wiht people claiming that Az has made a racist law in regards to immigration. Those who actually read it know better. It is just that they, like you, think that repeating it and changeing the actual words a bit will convince others of their position.

Even that ugly first statement you "quoted" that "there are more Muslims who want to kill us than who are peaceful" is your invention out of whole cloth. I don't mind the difference of opinion but do not like misquotes and paraphrasing that intends to mis-lead. </span> </div></div>

Gayle in MD
05-13-2010, 01:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote:Taught the same, until they start attempting to kill you. NOt all, but a sizable portion of their flock.
</div></div>

I wasn't aiming to offend you, Deeman. I simply do not agree with your statement. I didn't twist what you wrote, you wrote it.

I still maintain that to suggest that a "sizable portion" of the many, many Muslims in the world, want to kill us, isn't at all, a fair statement.

G.