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Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 07:56 AM
Until the oil corporations can prove that they have fail safe plans for dealing with deep water drilling accidents, our government should stop them from any and all deep water drilling, so that this disaster cannot happen again.

We lack, in the Federal Government, the technical capacity to take over and stop the leaking oil, when these oil corporations lie to us about the risks involved, and their ability to stop leaks in deep water.


IMO, all deep water drilling should be stopped, until our Government has the capacity to take over and stop the leaks, when the CEO's fail to do so, quickly and effectively.


Opinions?

G.

LWW
05-25-2010, 08:05 AM
I agree.

The Goremons should be embarrassed that they have foisted this idiocy upon us.

The same drilling can be done at a much greater level of safety by merely moving closer to shore.

LWW

Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 08:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">COVINGTON, La. Oil giant BP is focused on two key areas around the blown wellhead as it probes the cause of the unchecked Gulf of Mexico oil spill, the company said as it started to brief federal authorities on its internal investigation.

BP PLC said in a release late Monday that it has not reached a final conclusion. But it said multiple control mechanisms should have prevented the accident that started with an oil rig explosion April 20 off the coast of Louisiana.

The largest oil and gas producer in the Gulf listed seven mechanisms where its hunt for a cause is focused. Four of those involve the blowout preventer, a massive piece of machinery that sits atop the wellhead and is supposed to act as a safety device of last resort. The other three areas of investigation involve the cementing and casing of the wellhead.

Three companies were involved with BP on the well: Transocean LTD owned the Deepwater Horizon oil rig and the blowout preventer; Halliburton Inc. was responsible for encasing the well in cement; and Cameron International Corp. manufactured the blowout preventer.

President Barack Obama has blasted executives from the companies for blaming each other during Congressional hearings this month.

In BP's release, Chief Executive Tony Hayward stopped short of assigning responsibility, calling the disaster "a complex accident, caused by an unprecedented combination of failures."

"A number of companies are involved, including BP, and it is simply too early and not up to us to say who is at fault," Hayward said.

BP said its investigation team has begun sharing its findings with the U.S. Department of the Interior.

The Obama administration has come under increasing pressure as frustrations build with the failure to cap the well. Millions of gallons of oil stretch across a 150-mile swath from Grand Isle, La., to Dauphin Island, Ala., endangering wildlife and livelihoods in commercial fishing and tourism.


BP said there was still extensive work to do in its investigation, including examining major pieces of equipment like the blowout preventer and the rig that are still on the seafloor.

The internal investigation started the day after the rig exploded, burned and sank. It is being conducted by BP's Head of Group Safety and Operations, who has an independent reporting line to Hayward, the company said.

In Washington, a report by the Interior Department's inspector general found ethics violations at the agency that overseas offshore drilling. The report, which follows up on a 2007 investigation, found that staffers at the Minerals Management Service accepted tickets to sports events, lunches and other gifts from oil and gas companies and used government computers to view pornography.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said the findings were "deeply disturbing" and showed the importance of his plan to abolish the agency and replace it with three new entities.

The report, which follows up on a 2007 investigation, found that MMS staffers accepted tickets to sports events, lunches and other gifts from oil and gas companies and used government computers to view pornography.

Salazar said several employees in the report have resigned, were fired, terminated or referred for prosecution. All the violations mentioned in the report occurred between 2000 and 2008.

After butting heads with BP over its use of a chemical to break up the oil in the water, the Obama administration said Tuesday the company is complying with the government's request to use less of the toxic dispersant.x

White House energy adviser Carol Browner said alternative dispersants aren't so readily available.

In a letter to BP last week, the Environmental Protection Agency gave the company three days to find a less toxic alternative to the dispersant it's using, Corexit 9500. But in a series of meetings that followed, Browner said, it became clear the alternatives were not as widely available as needed.

"There are not as many being manufactured as people thought in the quantities" needed, Browner said in a round of television appearances on morning news shows.

"We need to determine whether or not those alternatives are available, and the EPA is doing that, but in the meantime, EPA has directed BP to use less of the dispersants and they're required to follow that," Browner said.

A memorial service was scheduled for Tuesday afternoon in Jackson, Miss., for the 11 workers who were killed when the oil rig exploded. The event was being held by Transocean.

All of BP's attempts to stop the leak have failed, despite the oil giant's use of joystick-operated submarine robots that can operate at depths no human could withstand.

BP is pinning its hopes of stopping the gusher on yet another technique never tested 5,000 feet underwater: a "top kill," in which heavy mud and cement would be shot into the well to plug it up.

BP engineers had the equipment in place Tuesday and planned to start 12 hours of tests to prepare for the maneuver, BP PLC senior vice president Kent Wells said.

The top kill has proven successful in aboveground wells in Kuwait and Iraq, but has never before been tried a mile beneath the sea. Company executives peg its chances of success at 60 to 70 percent.

Engineers are working on several other backup plans in case the top kill doesn't work, including injecting assorted junk into the well to clog it up, and lowering a new blowout preventer on top of the one that failed.

The only certain permanent solution is a pair of relief wells crews have already started drilling, but the task could take at least two months.

___

Associated Press Writers Erica Werner and Matthew Daly in Washington and Kevin McGill and Alan Sayre in Louisiana contributed to this report.

</div></div>

Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 09:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">COVINGTON, La. Oil giant BP is focused on two key areas around the blown wellhead as it probes the cause of the unchecked Gulf of Mexico oil spill, the company said as it started to brief federal authorities on its internal investigation.

BP PLC said in a release late Monday that it has not reached a final conclusion. But it said multiple control mechanisms should have prevented the accident that started with an oil rig explosion April 20 off the coast of Louisiana.

The largest oil and gas producer in the Gulf listed seven mechanisms where its hunt for a cause is focused. Four of those involve the blowout preventer, a massive piece of machinery that sits atop the wellhead and is supposed to act as a safety device of last resort. The other three areas of investigation involve the cementing and casing of the wellhead.

Three companies were involved with BP on the well: Transocean LTD owned the Deepwater Horizon oil rig and the blowout preventer; Halliburton Inc. was responsible for encasing the well in cement; and Cameron International Corp. manufactured the blowout preventer.

President Barack Obama has blasted executives from the companies for blaming each other during Congressional hearings this month.

In BP's release, Chief Executive Tony Hayward stopped short of assigning responsibility, calling the disaster "a complex accident, caused by an unprecedented combination of failures."

"A number of companies are involved, including BP, and it is simply too early and not up to us to say who is at fault," Hayward said.

BP said its investigation team has begun sharing its findings with the U.S. Department of the Interior.

The Obama administration has come under increasing pressure as frustrations build with the failure to cap the well. Millions of gallons of oil stretch across a 150-mile swath from Grand Isle, La., to Dauphin Island, Ala., endangering wildlife and livelihoods in commercial fishing and tourism.


BP said there was still extensive work to do in its investigation, including examining major pieces of equipment like the blowout preventer and the rig that are still on the seafloor.

The internal investigation started the day after the rig exploded, burned and sank. It is being conducted by BP's Head of Group Safety and Operations, who has an independent reporting line to Hayward, the company said.

In Washington, a report by the Interior Department's inspector general found ethics violations at the agency that overseas offshore drilling. The report, which follows up on a 2007 investigation, found that staffers at the Minerals Management Service accepted tickets to sports events, lunches and other gifts from oil and gas companies and used government computers to view pornography.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said the findings were "deeply disturbing" and showed the importance of his plan to abolish the agency and replace it with three new entities.

The report, which follows up on a 2007 investigation, found that MMS staffers accepted tickets to sports events, lunches and other gifts from oil and gas companies and used government computers to view pornography.

Salazar said several employees in the report have resigned, were fired, terminated or referred for prosecution. All the violations mentioned in the report occurred between 2000 and 2008.

After butting heads with BP over its use of a chemical to break up the oil in the water, the Obama administration said Tuesday the company is complying with the government's request to use less of the toxic dispersant.x

White House energy adviser Carol Browner said alternative dispersants aren't so readily available.

In a letter to BP last week, the Environmental Protection Agency gave the company three days to find a less toxic alternative to the dispersant it's using, Corexit 9500. But in a series of meetings that followed, Browner said, it became clear the alternatives were not as widely available as needed.

"There are not as many being manufactured as people thought in the quantities" needed, Browner said in a round of television appearances on morning news shows.

"We need to determine whether or not those alternatives are available, and the EPA is doing that, but in the meantime, EPA has directed BP to use less of the dispersants and they're required to follow that," Browner said.

A memorial service was scheduled for Tuesday afternoon in Jackson, Miss., for the 11 workers who were killed when the oil rig exploded. The event was being held by Transocean.

All of BP's attempts to stop the leak have failed, despite the oil giant's use of joystick-operated submarine robots that can operate at depths no human could withstand.

BP is pinning its hopes of stopping the gusher on yet another technique never tested 5,000 feet underwater: a "top kill," in which heavy mud and cement would be shot into the well to plug it up.

BP engineers had the equipment in place Tuesday and planned to start 12 hours of tests to prepare for the maneuver, BP PLC senior vice president Kent Wells said.

The top kill has proven successful in aboveground wells in Kuwait and Iraq, but has never before been tried a mile beneath the sea. Company executives peg its chances of success at 60 to 70 percent.

Engineers are working on several other backup plans in case the top kill doesn't work, including injecting assorted junk into the well to clog it up, and lowering a new blowout preventer on top of the one that failed.

The only certain permanent solution is a pair of relief wells crews have already started drilling, but the task could take at least two months.


"They were not prepared to respond at all," Parker said, referring to Alyeska. "They did not have a trained team ... The equipment was buried under several feet of snow."

The commission's report dedicated an entire chapter to failures by Alyeska, which was formed by the oil companies to run a pipeline stretching from the Arctic Ocean to the Valdez terminal. BP had the biggest stake in the consortium and essentially ran the first days of containment efforts in Prince William Sound an inlet on the south coast of Alaska.

"What happened in Alaska was determined by decisions coming from (BP in) Houston," Plater said.

Alyeska officials were notified within minutes of the Valdez spill, but it took seven hours for the consortium to get its first helicopter in the air with a Coast Guard investigator. A barge that was supposed to be carrying containment equipment had to be reloaded and did not arrive on the scene until 12 hours after the spill.

During the spill, Alyeska only had enough booms to surround a single tanker. The few skimmers it had to scoop up oil were out of commission once they filled up because no tank barge was available to handle recovered oil.

"Exxon quickly realized Alyeska was not responding, so 24 hours into the spill Exxon without consultation said, 'We're taking it over,'" said Dennis Kelso, former commissioner of the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation. "That was not necessarily a bad thing."

BP's role in the Valdez spill has been far less publicized than Exxon's, in part because the state commission wanted to stay focused and avoid fingerpointing by saying who ran Alyeska in its report. Plater said he now regrets that approach.

"In retrospect, it could've focused attention on BP and created transparency which would've changed the internal culture," he said. "As we see the internal culture appears not to have changed with tragic results."

According to Alyeska, BP owned a controlling 50.01 percent share in the consortium in 1989, while a half-dozen other oil companies had smaller stakes. Since then, BP's share in Alyeska has dropped to 46.9 percent, with the next highest owner Conoco-Phillips Inc. at 28.3 percent. The consortium works like a corporation with owners voting based on their percentage shares.

Alyeska's chief executive officer was in 1989, and is currently, a BP employee who's on the company payroll, said Alyeska spokeswoman Michelle Egan.

BP spokesman Robert Wine declined by e-mail to comment on the company's role in the Valdez spill, saying the incident was already examined thoroughly.

"We can't add to something that has been so thoroughly and publicly investigated in the past, and the results of which have been so robustly and effectively implemented," he said.

Many who observed both disasters say there are striking parallels.

For example, during BP's permit process for the Deepwater Horizon, the company apparently predicted a catastrophic spill was unlikely and if it were to happen, the company had the best technology available. Prior to the 1989 spill, Alyeska made a similar case, arguing that such a spill was unlikely and would be "further reduced because the majority of the tankers ... are of American registry and all of these are piloted by licensed masters or pilots."

Critics say the tools in both spills have been largely the same, as has BP's lack of preparedness. Then as now, the cleanup tools used across the industry are booms, skimmers and dispersants.

David Pettit, who helped represent Exxon after the Alaska spill, said he knew BP was the "main player in Alyeska" even though everyone at the time was more focused on Exxon's role.
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>
"This is the same company that was drilling in 5,000 feet of water in 2010 knowing that what they had promised ... was no more likely to do any good now than it did in 1989," said Pettit, now a senior attorney at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "It's the same cleanup techniques."</span>
For the Gulf spill, a 100-ton containment box had to be built from scratch and wasn't deployed until two weeks after the spill, leading some to question why such emergency measures weren't ready to begin with.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"If you've told the government there's not a serious risk of a major spill, why should you spend shareholder money building a 100-ton steel box you've publicly claimed you don't think you'll ever use?" said Pettit.</span>
Since the Gulf explosion, BP's companywide preparedness and safety record have come under sharp focus.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Onshore, BP has been criticized for the pace of improvements at some refineries. Government officials gave BP a massive $87 million fine for failing to make improvements in the five years since a blast killed 15 at its massive Texas City refinery. BP is appealing the fine.</span>
For those who endured the Valdez spill and are now watching another catastrophe unfold, industry improvements aren't coming fast enough.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"We've gone 20 years since Exxon Valdez and have advanced ourselves as a nation and world tremendously, yet the ability to control and deal with something of this magnitude still has not been addressed," said former Homer Mayor John Calhoun, who choked up at the memories. "This is as serious and difficult a situation as you can possibly imagine."</span>
___

Associated Press Writer Ramit Plushnick-Masti in Houston contributed to this report.

(This version CORRECTS Corrects that 6 million gallons of oil have spilled not barrels. Moving on general news and financial services.)


___

Associated Press Writers Erica Werner and Matthew Daly in Washington and Kevin McGill and Alan Sayre in Louisiana contributed to this report.
</div></div>

Sid_Vicious
05-25-2010, 09:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until the oil corporations can prove that they have fail safe plans for dealing with deep water drilling accidents, our government should stop them from any and all deep water drilling, so that this disaster cannot happen again.

We lack, in the Federal Government, the technical capacity to take over and stop the leaking oil, when these oil corporations lie to us about the risks involved, and their ability to stop leaks in deep water.





IMO, all deep water drilling should be stopped, until our Government has the capacity to take over and stop the leaks, when the CEO's fail to do so, quickly and effectively.


Opinions?

G. </div></div>

Obama is not going to halt drilling, and Obama is missing the boat on this event, he's become very limp in the manhood manner of running a disaster. After Bush's Katrina, you'd think Obama would be intense and not stay in the background like he's done so far with the BP screw up. if Obama won't REALLY put his boot on BP's neck for something as simple as enforcing the EPA's dictate to stop using that dispersant after BP ignored it,,,then Obama is part of the problem. We get no national respect anymore, Obama's respect with me is waning day by day. Wish that Hillary was in his place as president. She'd kick some ass. sid

Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 09:50 AM
Martin,
What can Obama do about solving the problem, when the oil companies themselves, have no viable solutions, and even this top fill option, is supposed to be only 60 to 70 percent likely to work, and our governmkent does not have it's own equipment, nor any known fail safe method of stopping up the leak?

This is a case of our bought and paid for Government Representatives, and agencies, being on the take, and allowing big oil to put the entire atlantic seaboard at risk.

We must get off oil, and the sooner we realize that and go forward with renewable fuels, the better. It's not easy to do that given we were in a debt ditch, when this president took over.

I can only read the news papers, like you, to get my info, and I'm very frustrated over this oil spill, but it was what didn't happen, before they drilled, that is the cause, and that was oversight, and the agency responsible, were all on the take from big oil.

I don't think President Obama is to blame, I think the lying bastards who run these oil companies, are, and were to blame, and have been for decades, and done nothing to assure the safety of deep offshore drilling, which basically, most Democratics are against, in the first place.


They never covered all the losses from the Valdez accident, and it's long past time, IMO, for these cEO's in the banks, and in the oil and pharmaceuticals, to have mandatory jail time, and end the fines process altogether. It's too easy for them to pay fines, while they're collecting unprecedented profits! they should be tried and convicted for the harm they do to people, the animals and environment.


Just my 2C.
G.
G.

Sid_Vicious
05-25-2010, 10:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Martin,
What can Obama do about solving the problem, when the oil companies themselves, have no viable solutions, and even this top fill option, is supposed to be only 60 to 70 percent likely to work, and our governmkent does not have it's own equipment, nor any known fail safe method of stopping up the leak?

This is a case of our bought and paid for Government Representatives, and agencies, being on the take, and allowing big oil to put the entire atlantic seaboard at risk.

We must get off oil, and the sooner we realize that and go forward with renewable fuels, the better. It's not easy to do that given we were in a debt ditch, when this president took over.

I can only read the news papers, like you, to get my info, and I'm very frustrated over this oil spill, but it was what didn't happen, before they drilled, that is the cause, and that was oversight, and the agency responsible, were all on the take from big oil.

I don't think President Obama is to blame, I think the lying bastards who run these oil companies, are, and were to blame, and have been for decades, and done nothing to assure the safety of deep offshore drilling, which basically, most Democratics are against, in the first place.


They never covered all the losses from the Valdez accident, and it's long past time, IMO, for these cEO's in the banks, and in the oil and pharmaceuticals, to have mandatory jail time, and end the fines process altogether. It's too easy for them to pay fines, while they're collecting unprecedented profits! they should be tried and convicted for the harm they do to people, the animals and environment.


Just my 2C.
G.
G. </div></div>

The first thing Obama has power to do is BACKUP AND ENFORCE THE EPA'S DICTATE! let's start with just that one thing. A president is supposed to protect and serve this country, and enforce the laws. The EPA is the LAW. He ain't doing his job. I guess I didn't make my point very clear about that in the last message. sid

Just in case you don't know what dictate I reference, it is to halt the dispersants they are using in 3 days. BP basically flipped off the American public and didn't even bother to say why. That, is what has shown Obama's lack if any spine of this country's welfare. sid

Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 12:17 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/video/environment-15749659/20005617

Martin,
I think that from the very beginning, the administration called together all of our experts, and that they have been focused on the problem from the start.

Then, there is La.'s part, which is apparently pro big oil....as has been the Repuyblican Party, which works consistantly against holding big business to account, from the banks to the oil industry, and you know the kind of outrage that coomes from the right, whenever carbon tax, or climate change, or anything that would be a step in the right direction, energy wise, is spoken about.

Here is an article that lays out La's position, to some degree, and it does show that their own pro oil position, is also an issue:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Despite BP's Oil Spill, Louisiana Still Loves Big Oil! By Bill Sasser Bill Sasser Mon May 24, 1:15 pm ET
New Orleans One week after the Deepwater Horizon oil rig collapsed into the Gulf of Mexico, a letter arrived on President Obama's desk from Sen. Bill Nelson (D) of Florida, demanding an immediate moratorium on offshore oil drilling.

The same day, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist a man once seen cheering as Sarah Palin said "drill here, drill now" called for a special state legislative session to ban offshore drilling.

Even on the other side of the continent, the effects of the Gulf oil spill were transformative: Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger withdrew his support for limited drilling off the California coast.

IN PICTURES: Louisiana oil spill

"If I have a choice between the $100 million [for drilling] and what I see in the Gulf of Mexico, I'd rather just figure out how to make up for that $100 million," he said May 3.

Yet in Louisiana, the state where the spill poses the greatest threat to fragile and environmentally vital marshlands, as well as to the entire fishing economy, talk of coming down hard on offshore drilling is virtually nonexistent.

Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu is steadfastly against a moratorium on Gulf Coast deepwater drilling as are other members of Louisiana's congressional delegation. Republican Sen. David Vitter has seen fit to chastise Congress for holding hearings on the growing crisis before the deep-sea leak has been plugged.

BP has come in for some harsh words, and in some cases even legal action. But one parish that is suing BP takes pains to explain its purpose: The suit is aimed at BP, not the oil industry, a lawyer says.

That local leaders facing such a disaster feel compelled not to antagonize Big Oil is telling.

It is quintessentially Louisiana.

Louisiana is entwined with offshore oil more closely than any other state. The world's first offshore oil well was drilled in the Gulf, south of Morgan City, in 1947, and the ties binding Louisiana and offshore oil have strengthened since then.

For a relatively poor Deep South state, plentiful stores of oil and natural gas have become a crucial source of wealth.

"An upwardly mobile career path often leads people in Louisiana to the oil and gas industry," says Kirby Goidel, director of Louisiana State University's Public Policy Research Lab in Baton Rouge. "The state lags behind in higher education, and you can go make a good living on the rigs without going to college."

A major source of jobs, The oil industry employs about 58,000 Louisiana residents and has created another 260,000 oil-related jobs, accounting for about 17 percent of all Louisiana jobs. The average annual oil-industry salary is $95,000 a very good income in Louisiana.

Moreover, in 2008, oil and gas made up 6.5 percent of Louisiana's revenue, more than five times the national average. As a result, Louisiana and offshore drilling have become synonymous.

"One third of the oil produced in this country comes from offshore, and 80 percent of offshore production comes from deep water off Louisiana," says Eric Smith, associate director of Tulane University's Energy Institute.

Indeed, 40 deepwater platforms operate in depths comparable to that of the Deepwater Horizon rig, producing petroleum from more than 400 wells off Louisiana, according to Mr. Smith. "Deepwater is ... the most productive area of oil production and that's where the big companies are working," he says.

This all plays into Louisiana's response to what some scientists suggest is already the biggest oil spill in American history.

To be sure, the state of Louisiana and its parishes are not doing nothing. A state Senate panel on May 18 endorsed a bill that would make it easier for the state to sue BP. And on May 17, the Terrebonne Parish district attorney filed suit against BP, seeking unspecified damages for wildlife killed or injured by the oil leak. The suit is the first filed on behalf of the state over the oil spill and is expected to be followed by similar claims from other coastal parishes.

Statewide, there are signs of growing anxiety and anger as the first heavy oil slicks to make landfall washed into Plaquemines Parish May 19. Images of oil-soaked wetlands coincided with news that the federal government was doubling the area of Gulf waters where fishing is banned due to the spill.

Many families in south Louisiana work in both the fishing and oil and gas industries, and marine scientists say the spill could severely damage the state's $1.8 billion annual fishing industry for years to come.

Fishing, drilling have coexisted"What makes the oil spill such an interesting issue is that, historically, fishing and oil have worked well together here. This is the first time that one industry is threatening the survival of the other," says Mr. Goidel.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Yet so far, the official state response has been marked by restraint.</span> <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Despite joining a multistate suit against federal health-care reform legislation, Gov. Bobby Jindal said April 30 that Louisiana was not considering a lawsuit against BP. (He has decided, however, to go forward with plans to build sand berms off the coast to try to keep oil from washing into sensitive areas, even though the US Army Corps of Engineers has not yet issued the state a permit to do so.) </span><span style='font-size: 17pt'>Prominent Democratic and Republican officeholders say they will hold BP responsible for the spill, but none has yet called for suits against BP or for new industry regulations. </span>
"In the state's economy and politics, there's no question that the oil industry plays a central role across the board," says Goidel.

Private attorney Don Carmouche, one of the legal team handling the Terrebonne Parish suit, is something of a local Erin Brockovich. His firm has previously sued oil companies in Louisiana on behalf of the state, school boards, and other clients who own public land contaminated by oil operations. During the past century, oil companies used open pits to dispose of hazardous wastes including arsenic, lead, and radioactive material that leached into ground water. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>But he's careful to say that the Terrebonne suit isn't aimed at the oil industry but at BP alone. </span>
"We don't want to be seen as attacking the oil and gas industries, but a major oil company operating in this state ignored the regulatory system, or benefited from regulators that allowed them to get by with it," he says. "In the early days, the oil companies did whatever they wanted to and got away with it, and apparently that was going on now with BP and the [US] Minerals Management Service."

IN PICTURES: Louisiana oil spill

Related:

Obama moves to take political control of BP Gulf oil spill

Feds demand that BP provide confidential Gulf oil spill data

EPA scolds BP in Gulf oil spill: dispersant is too toxic, change it

</div></div>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100524/ts_csm/303130


Martin, I believe that there is a fight going on, and on-going, between the administration, and BP. There is also a fight between the GOP, Grand Oil Party, and the Dems, many of them environmentalists, or "Tree Huggers" as we're called by the right, over our desires for getting off fossile fuels.

We will have to now watch Republicans, try to filibuster anything and everything, that could hold the carbon industries to account for their polluting ways, including the oil industry, which has too much influence as it is, and will have even more, going forward, thanks to the RW Supreme Court's recent activist rulings.

It's simple,.... corruption, greed, and unchecked corporate power, money talks, and Americans don't want to face the fact that we MUST get off fosile fuels, or the earth will not be safe for human life.

We're already dropping like flies, from cancer and other chemical related deformities, showing up in humans and animals, mostly because of corporate pollution.

More and more medical information about what the pollutants in our environment are doing to all of us, emerges daily. I often write about it here, and am speedily attacked after I do, by the right, who believe in no oversight, no government interference upon big business, no limits on business, regardless of the negative impacts on health, animals, oceans, or anything else that smacks of devastation to the environment.

Republicans have already threatened to filibuster the carbon bill, by Leibermann and Kerry, which although not perfect, it would be a beginning.

The Republicans game is to say the bills aren't strong enough, and use that BS to justify their obstructionism, but that story doesn't hold water, when it comes up after McConnell has just spent a week being wined and dined by Wall Street Financiers.

They aren't fooling me a bit. They would, and have, blocked everything this administration, and the Dems, have been trying to accomplish.

It would be great, if there were a simple solution, but there isn't, and the deregulation happy folks should really be owning up to the fact that regulations are essential, if our country is to wipe out corruption, offset corporate greed, and clean up our environement.

But alas, you saw what happened to Carter, decades ahead of his time, when he attempted to appeal to the American Public, and give us some straight talk, about fossil fuels, and particularly about OIL!!!!....Suffice it to say, Americans have had a love affair with automobiles for a long, long time. Going forward, will call for many drastic changes in the way people of the world live, including us, and watching this disaster, should open up some eyes, but does it?

The science is preferably ignored, by the kind of people who want their cake annd eat it too....even watching our ice caps melt, doesn't penetrate the ignorance of the climate change deniers...

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Deeman3
05-25-2010, 01:49 PM
I agree that all drilling should be stopped until the idiots can fingure out how to install proper failsafe guards against this type of accidnet as well as others we might anticipate (hurricanes, terrorists, etc.).

Can you imagine of we had 25 or even 400 of these leaking out there. What really firghtenens me is the South Americans and Chinese, for God's sake, the lead leaking Chinese, are drilling out there probably with even less safeguards.

I am all for drilling but for responsibility as well.

Does make those 50-75 mpg motorcycles look a little more attractive. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

LWW
05-25-2010, 02:04 PM
What's funny is that if all the Goremons bought and used an HPV we would probably be off foreign oil overnight.

It's easier to bark however, while cruising in your V6/8 ricemobile, than to actually do something. After all the left is all about bleating about how others need to do something.

My fleet:

16 MPG truck, 9 yrs old - 68K miles.
27 MPG car, 15 yrs old - 56K miles.
27 MPG sports car, 11 yrs old - 70K miles.
40 MPG murdercycle, 33 yrs old - 61K miles.
∞ MPG HPV, 18 yrs old - approx 18K miles.

The HPV is the only one I'm considering replacement of.

LWW

pooltchr
05-25-2010, 02:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
The first thing Obama has power to do is BACKUP AND ENFORCE THE EPA'S DICTATE! let's start with just that one thing. A president is supposed to protect and serve this country, and enforce the laws. The EPA is the LAW. He ain't doing his job. I guess I didn't make my point very clear about that in the last message. sid

Just in case you don't know what dictate I reference, it is to halt the dispersants they are using in 3 days. BP basically flipped off the American public and didn't even bother to say why. That, is what has shown Obama's lack if any spine of this country's welfare. sid </div></div>

He has it all under control. Don't worry...he isn't! In fact, he is about to take his SECOND VACATION since this all started. LA AND AL are just right leaning, fly over states. Don't get 'em in a wad...it's not that important!

Steve

wolfdancer
05-25-2010, 03:02 PM
maybe he'll do a GWB ....a helicopter flyover to reassure the people that he has it under control...

Sid_Vicious
05-25-2010, 03:23 PM
"Republicans have already threatened to filibuster the carbon bill, by Leibermann and Kerry, which although not perfect, it would be a beginning.

The Republicans game is to say the bills aren't strong enough, and use that BS to justify their obstructionism, but that story doesn't hold water, when it comes up after McConnell has just spent a week being wined and dined by Wall Street Financiers."

Gayle...All that the f-n republicans always do is directly derail ANYTHING from Obama's administration, even if it's obviously good for the population. Our dems in the house and senate was really duped back when Bush rushed us into Iraq, by actually voting for the bastard's devious plan. That was a fear tactic, and now we have the republicans merely giving the already grievous events we have here in the US. Most, if not all of the righties here will say I'm a liar, but I stood behind Bush after 911, but I damned sure never believed Iraq was the threat. Now days, if "the house catches fire", the republicans would grab their gasoline buckets. THAT my Dear, is a piss poor American, and the repubs are blatant in showing their colors...non productive and trouble making. sid

wolfdancer
05-25-2010, 03:42 PM
I can't add anything to that...never was too good at putting my thoughts into words...when I am pissed off. You did it for me...thanks!
And now as we anxiously await the rebuttal from the blue crew...a moment of silence for our fallen adversary....lww!
Wait, I spoke too soon...there is still discernable brain wave activity....it may be just the frontal lobes that are damaged beyond repair

Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 04:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Republicans have already threatened to filibuster the carbon bill, by Leibermann and Kerry, which although not perfect, it would be a beginning.

The Republicans game is to say the bills aren't strong enough, and use that BS to justify their obstructionism, but that story doesn't hold water, when it comes up after McConnell has just spent a week being wined and dined by Wall Street Financiers."

Gayle...All that the f-n republicans always do is directly derail ANYTHING from Obama's administration, even if it's obviously good for the population. Our dems in the house and senate was really duped back when Bush rushed us into Iraq, by actually voting for the bastard's devious plan. That was a fear tactic, and now we have the republicans merely giving the already grievous events we have here in the US. Most, if not all of the righties here will say I'm a liar, but I stood behind Bush after 911, but I damned sure never believed Iraq was the threat. Now days, if "the house catches fire", the republicans would grab their gasoline buckets. THAT my Dear, is a piss poor American, and the repubs are blatant in showing their colors...non productive and trouble making. sid </div></div>


Excellent post, friend. I'm just waiting for someone to ask Sara,...

"Oh, so how's that drill baby drill thingie workin' for Ya?"

I notice all the outraged righties who are always screeaming about a government take over, are now screaming for a government take over....

I don't believe that anyone can stop the leak. I don't think it will stop, until theinternal pressure evens out.

Regardless, we should absolutely outrule, all off shore drilling in deep water, all over the world.

We are stuck in a global economy, and the fact is, we wasted time when we had the power and the money to be a determining force in the world, particularly in securing the safety of our planet, and addressing the risks of burning dirty fossile fuels.

Add to that the idiots who believe that corporate CEO's can be trusted to regulate themselves, and that government has no business dictating to or regulating business, and that Bush didn't F-up this government so badly, that no president, not even a genius, can come behind the worst administration in history, and solve all of the dysfunction and disasters he left behind inside of two yars, and there we have the real answer to why we are in the mess, stupid voters, who can't see through the Repiglicans.....

Hey, just tune in any day, to C-span, and watch live, as Republicans fight for the corrupt corporate wealthy CEO's, just like these guys who are runnning BP, and Republicans try to destroy the common man, middle class American, while they protect all of the crooks who have bilked all of the rest of us for the last ten years. It's easy to see....it's right there, live, every damn day....


G.

eg8r
05-25-2010, 04:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until the oil corporations can prove that they have fail safe plans for dealing with deep water drilling accidents, our government should stop them from any and all deep water drilling, so that this disaster cannot happen again.</div></div>While I don't necessarily have any good reason to argue against this in theory, I think it will seriously impact the poor's ability to purchase gas in their brand new Ford Expedition that has been lowered and has 24 inch rims and tires.

eg8r

eg8r
05-25-2010, 04:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent post, friend. I'm just waiting for someone to ask Sara,...

"Oh, so how's that drill baby drill thingie workin' for Ya?"</div></div>The drilling was not the problem, the issue is the lack of failsafe mechanisms in place.

After the Valdez were you running around asking for all major transport ocean liners to stop their business because they might have an accident and dump their load into the ocean?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
05-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Ed,
the drilling IS the preoblem, when they cannot do it safely, and they lie about their effectiveness and ability to handle a disaser.


The deregulatory damage was all done during the Bush Administration. Just as the border patrols, were defunded under the Bush Administration. I see that this president is sending more border patrols to protect our borders.

President Obama, has plenty to offset, and overturn, since inheriting the many disasters of the Bush Administration.

The fact is, President Obama inherited a dysfunctional government, from the DOI, including the druggies and their prostitutes, provided to them by the oil industry, to the MMS, and a dysfunctional EPA. Even if he had replaced every federal worker, the Republicans would be holding up thousands of appointees, instead of dozens.

We have none other than the unrealistic, deregulation gurus, known as the RW conservatives, to thank for this disaster, since it was their policy, to trust corporations to police themselves.

We can now surely see how very ignorant, naive and irresponsible that policy has proven to be.

G.

pooltchr
05-25-2010, 09:55 PM
You were very quick to come down on Bush for his response after Katrina. Yet here we are, more than a month into this one, and you are still avoiding admitting that Obama has dropped the ball. Maybe it's not his fault, but neither was Katrina Bush's fault. But the response to this disaster by the federal government has been to point fingers at BP and say it's their job. Meanwhile, the oil is spreading into the marshes and beaches, and the administration is still waiting for someone else to clean up the mess.

WTF???????????? BP is focusing all their attention on trying to stop the oil flow. This is a FEDERAL EMERGENCY! Marshes are going to be destroyed, animals, birds and sea life are going to die. Why isn't our government already down there full force cleaning up? Where is FEMA?

But it's ok...Obama is taking a second vacation since the explosion. Save some of that outrage you have for BP for your messiah who is sitting around with his finger up his butt while the oil spreads.

Steve

LWW
05-26-2010, 04:36 AM
Meanwhile the state of Louisiana has a plan ready to go to protect the shorelines ... and can't get the regimes approval?

And, nobody has yet wanted to answer why the regime refused to administer the plan that was in place in case something like this should ever happen?

LWW

Chopstick
05-26-2010, 06:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ed,
the drilling IS the preoblem, when they cannot do it safely, and they lie about their effectiveness and ability to handle a disaser.

<span style="color: #000099">So, one rig blew and thirty thousand didn't. What's your definition of safety?</span>

The deregulatory damage was all done during the Bush Administration.

<span style="color: #000099">I realize that this is a popular mantra but it simply isn't true. I even had someone say that to me in Canada last week. I checked the regulations and the deregulations. There is nothing in them about the construction and operation of offshore oil rigs. In fact, there is nothing in them about offshore oil at all. They were all confined to land based operations and were financial in nature. There is nothing anywhere pertaining to safety regulations.

I don't mean to be contradictory. There are plenty of things to be upset about. This isn't the first time BP has screwed up and killed a bunch of people. We have real issues that need to be dealt with and we need to focus on those instead of prefabricated ones.</span>
</div></div>

Gayle in MD
05-26-2010, 07:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ed,
the drilling IS the preoblem, when they cannot do it safely, and they lie about their effectiveness and ability to handle a disaser.

<span style="color: #000099">So, one rig blew and thirty thousand didn't. What's your definition of safety?</span>

The deregulatory damage was all done during the Bush Administration.

<span style="color: #000099">I realize that this is a popular mantra but it simply isn't true. I even had someone say that to me in Canada last week. I checked the regulations and the deregulations. There is nothing in them about the construction and operation of offshore oil rigs. <span style="color: #000066"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Exactly my point! </span> </span> In fact, there is nothing in them about offshore oil at all. They were all confined to land based operations and were financial in nature. There is nothing anywhere pertaining to safety regulations.

I don't mean to be contradictory. There are plenty of things to be upset about. This isn't the first time BP has screwed up and killed a bunch of people. We have real issues that need to be dealt with and we need to focus on those instead of prefabricated ones.</span>
</div></div> </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">I am not prefabricating. Also, I am not encouraged by thinking that thousands of other wells, didn't blow. I am angry that I am watching mankind desroy the environment, and that these corporations which are doing so, don't give a goof F. about anything but money, and managed to wiggle out of paying the victime of their greed and irresponsibility.

They lied about their ability to handle such a crises. I think instead of finding any solace in the other deep wells which didn't blow, we should be extremely worried about all of them.

So, as regards the Bush administration, you haven't read the reports about the drugs and prostitution, and the oil industry paying off those who should have been laying down limits and overseeing their safety measures?

You did not notice that Bush appointed the very people to oversee certain agencies, who had been lobbyists before, for the very industries that they were appointed to oversee?

Tell me, what is your answer for the reason why Cheney, who WAS Bush's energy CZAR, in fact, held "Secret" meetings with oil/ energy industries? Do you think that eight years of an oil cartel in the White House, every single one of them formally connected to big oil in their pasts, had any negative impact at all on our safety from deep water drilling accidents? You couldn't find any regulations? Was that a surprise? How long have we been drilling these very deep wells?

I suppose you also don't think OIL had anything at all to do with invading Iraq, either?

I am not being sarcastic, I am interested in your views on these questions. WTF was Cheney hiding? He went all the way to the supreme court, to keep his secret meetings, secret, didn't he? Does a Vice President have the right to formulate our energy policies, behind closed doors, and refuse to reveal to Americans, what our own energy policy is?

There was a pattern that existed throughout Bush's administration, the anything goes, we'll keep the government off your backs, and only the bottom line is important.

George Bush made a slew of decisions throughout his tenure which relaxed safety regulation on all sorts of environmental issues, right down to how much arsenic was allowed in our water, to removing Cafe' standards for the auto industry, coal mining in our national Parks... throughout his administration, he removed safety and health regulations, or diluted them, in the interest of Corporate bottom line. I've posted them more than once on here....


Do you think that people in government should be qualified to hold the offices they are appointed to hold? Because clearly, they weren't.

Regardless, deregulation is the Republican brand. That cannot be denied, so I hardly think the lack of regulation, goes against my original statement. If they cannot hanndle deep water drilling, with all it's potential for environmental disaster, by quickly stopping the leaks, and by monitoring the safty of the wells, then it should be stopped immediately, everywhere. they have proven that they lied about their ability to do so, and IMO, they should all be subject to manslaughter charges to putting their own employees at risk.

I am so sick of seeing the corporate villians get off scott free for the vast damage that they prosecute against our country, and it's citizens.

We should be moving away from oil dependence anyway. Cheap illegal alien labor, cheap oil, and cheap goods from China, are destroying us.

Your friendly tree hugger from MD.

G.</span>

eg8r
05-26-2010, 08:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ed,
the drilling IS the preoblem, when they cannot do it safely, and they lie about their effectiveness and ability to handle a disaser.</div></div>Your explanation here proves the actual drilling is not the problem. The problem is the people in place to manage the project. We have oil rigs all over the world and they are not having disasters. Drilling is not the problem and I don't think drawing a line in the sand on this subject helps anything.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The deregulatory damage was all done during the Bush Administration. </div></div>So what, Obama did nothing to fix this and now we have a disaster.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just as the border patrols, were defunded under the Bush Administration. I see that this president is sending more border patrols to protect our borders.</div></div>Well isn't that freaking good for him. Too bad it took the state of Arizona to have some balls and force the President into action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">President Obama, has plenty to offset, and overturn, since inheriting the many disasters of the Bush Administration.</div></div>Well it does little to help the current disaster knowing our President was more interested in getting a crappy healthcare bill pushed down our throats insteading trying to head off these types of disasters.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is, President Obama inherited a dysfunctional government</div></div>The fact is all you care about is giving him a scapegoat because you know he is grossly underqualified for the job and is going to continue to be a failure until he gets his act together. Locking our borders and kicking out the illegals would go a lot further than some piece of crap healthcare bill that is going to cost a fortune and still will not help any more people.

Why didn't we hear screams from you about shutting down all transport ocean liners after the Valdez spill?

eg8r

LWW
05-26-2010, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is all you care about is giving him a scapegoat because you know he is grossly underqualified for the job

eg8r </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 26pt'><span style='font-family: Arial Black'><u>*DING-DING-DING-DING*</u></span></span>

LWW