08-23-2002, 09:45 AM
I just returned from the APA 9 Ball / in LV. Our team placed 33rd, and we had a wunderful time and met some really nice people on the TEAMS we played. However two thing happened that I found to be not surprising but bothersome. The first, I was in the last match of a really tight competition, I was on the 8 ball
and in my pre-stroke I touched the CB, ( ball did not move, no one saw the foul, but i felt the contact, and call the foul on myself ) The other team was REALLY SURPRISED that I would call my own foul and made a big production on complementing me, saying they had never had that happen before. The second thing i witnessed was in the MINI's , a team member , skill level 4 was playing in a skill 4& 5's mini and played a "4"
that ran two racks and played at least at a level 7 ( I'm a skill level 8 and have been playing 40 years and can surly evaluate a players ability ) it seems this guy joined the APA, never played 9 ball in league, came in as a 4, did not play any matches on his team and only came to LV to play in the mini's as a sk 4. since the scoring in the mini's are "games won " and no innings or other factors are input, he cotinued to be a 4 for every mini he entered. How do these people sleep well at night ? If you have to cheat to win why play....

08-23-2002, 10:29 AM
Cheaters (including sandbaggers) make me sick.

I thought you had to have 20 scores to play at the nationals.

Maybe that doesn't apply to the mini's but apparently it should.

08-23-2002, 11:33 AM
All that is required is a APA membership card, which is encoded with your skill level for the Mini's... I saw several examples of this in the Mini's, it doesn't matter in the 8 & 9 brackets, but in the lower brackets, a 7 playing with 4, & 5's is stealing...........

08-24-2002, 08:25 AM
I think the national APA office is not interested in finding sandbaggers. My wife is an APA four who has three losing sessions behind her right now. She played in a singles regional has a four and now she is locked there. She did not even make it to the semi-finals there! I e-mailed the national office for a handicap review and they said if you have played in a higher level tourament you could be locked. I am getting tired of the lower level (sandbaggers) players winning against her. This woman has been in our local league since it started and now thanks to the rules league pool has became a game with out joy. I used to say that a sandbagger manipulated the system better than the rest of us, now I just call them what they are to their face.

Jerry S.

08-24-2002, 08:44 AM
While living in Arizona, I played on a couple of APA teams. My introduction to the APA was on a team that "sandbagged". They registerd me as a "4", even though I was a "6" SL. I had it changed. I never played again. I watched from the sidelines as the Captain told others to "dump" in order to maintain a lower skill level.

Our team won the session and we each received a beautiful plaque. I gave mine back as (1) I never played after the first night. (2) We didn't EARN it. We STOLE it.

The second APA team I played on was one that I captained. We took second place and had a great time doing it. Everyone played and it was a team mandate that each player try to improve.

After that session, I quit playing in any "handicapped" league and now play in only "open" leagues. Yes, I win less often but the upside is there is NO sandbagging and I get to play against the best players in our area.

The APA and other "franchised" leagues are designed to do five things, listed in order of priority:

1. Make money for the APA (or whoever sells the franchise.)
2. Make money for the League Operator.
3. Attempt to provide a competitive, fun pool experience for the players.
4. Actually HAVE fun in a competive, fun pool environment.
5. Eliminate sandbaggers by moving them up in skill level ratings.



08-24-2002, 01:20 PM
ever notice how much of a production is made when a pro shows true enthusiasm for another? like when strickland raise reyes' hand after reyes pulls the double rail kick in the final game. incardona and rempe couldn't stop gushing about both shot AND strickland's complementary demeanor.

and yeah, those players sleep easily because they don't give what they do a moments thought.