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Sid_Vicious
08-25-2002, 08:02 AM
I played someone in 9-ball yesterday and he'd insistently pull the back ball out of the pack and whammed on the 1 and the 9 ball before pulling the rack off. Thing I noticed is that my break was not spreading the balls hardly at all. I looked at the rack after a bit and the balls were touching as well as my racks were for him, and yet he broke very well.

Is there something "sluggish" you do when you whack the balls down that way all the time???sid

PQQLK9
08-25-2002, 08:11 AM
It freezes the balls by putting divots in the cloth (very unpopular with a lot of people) ala SARDO...

Sid_Vicious
08-25-2002, 08:32 AM
But does it slug the rack? sid

PQQLK9
08-25-2002, 08:41 AM
I really don't know but IMHO I would think that if ALL the balls were tapped it would be a consistant rack as opposed to it being an inconsistant rack if all the balls were not tapped...I hope my explaination is consistanty constant with the circumstances that are being considered. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Barbara
08-25-2002, 09:33 AM
sid,

A slug rack is where the second row balls are not touching any of the third (or middle) row of balls. Make a rack like this to see for yourself.

Barbara

Bob C
08-25-2002, 10:03 AM
Actually Barbara, you can slug a rack in a number of different ways. Anything done to manipulate the rack that results in reducing the action of the balls when they are broken, is creating a slug.

Sid_Vicious
08-25-2002, 11:00 AM
Thanks Bob, I didn't feel like I had to totally explain my knowledge in slug racks and divots/dislikes caused by tapping balls. I guess there is always going to be something lacking in this internet protocol of trading responses to what we've read.

The question remains though. To explain the finer details:

"The balls were as touching as my racks were for him when I racked, only thing was that he whacked the one ball and the nine ball in a rude hammer-like fasion, but NO other balls were whacked down into the cloth. I do generally make good racks and spread racks well when I or other non whacking players rack. It seemed to be that for some reason(and all I could seperate in technique was the whacking) that a visually tight rack was keeping 9 along with 2 to 3 balls immediately touching the nine, sitting just as they were racked."

Btw, I left an adjoining table before playing this guy and the opponents racks there were spreading as usual for me, the tightness of the racks appearing good-to-perfect. So it wasn't as if I was having a miserable day breaking.

If I didn't value my home table and equipment, I'd rack and beat the hell out of the 1 and 9 and see if the slugness returned, but I won't. Maybe it's just a fluke, maybe somebody out there knows more about it, if there is in fact anything to this observation. Thing is that I do know racks, I understand the anatomy of slugging a rack and divots are divots are divots, etc. He wouldn't have been doing it on my table...sid

Troy
08-25-2002, 01:28 PM
Well Sid, I think it may have something to do with the lack of energy transfer when the 1 & 9 balls are in those craters, even though the balls appear to be touching/frozen. I think the effect is similar to having gaps behind/beside balls. When all balls are in craters, ie SARDINE GIZMO, that transfer of energy balances out.

I firmly believe that learning to rack properly is a fundamental part of the game.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> .....he whacked the one ball and the nine ball in a rude hammer-like fasion, but NO other balls were whacked down into the cloth. I do generally make good racks and spread racks well when I or other non whacking players rack. It seemed to be that for some reason(and all I could seperate in technique was the whacking) that a visually tight rack was keeping 9 along with 2 to 3 balls immediately touching the nine, sitting just as they were racked."

...sid <hr></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
08-25-2002, 01:54 PM
You might have something. If someone could imagine the 1 and 9 inside the pack in a 3D projection laying beneath the pack due to the pounding into the cloth/bed, and then figure some of that interesting physics of colliding spheres coupled with the energy vectoring changes due the elevation skew after the embedding of the 1 &amp; 9...well there's something to wonder is all I have to say. Bottomline was that the balls weren't moving, and with really only two variables,,,different shooters and that damn whamming!!!sid

StLSteve
08-25-2002, 07:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr>
I firmly believe that learning to rack properly is a fundamental part of the game.
__________________________________________________ __________
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on racking properly, please don't take this as a smart ass comment, I am truly interested in the proper way to do this. Or if you have a link to post. Thank for any replies to this question.

Rip
08-25-2002, 07:45 PM
You might refer to Joe Tucker's book, Racking Secrets, for several racking scenarios and in depth explanations for most games. I own his book and he explains how to deal with lousey racks and he explains how to put a rack on your opponent. Okay, with that said I must add my disclaimer: Rip has never put a slug rack on an opponent. However, I have documented proof that every one I've ever played has put a slug rack on me every time I break. What is this documented proof you ask? Well...how else could I explain my weak a$$ break? LOL! I did make a ball on the break the same day my Ford Pinto went up in flames in 1976. It would have been a perfect day except I also scratched on that particular break.
All kidding aside, Tucker's book would be an excellent place to begin when you decide to really work on your break. Regards, Rip

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: StLSteve:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Troy:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;
I firmly believe that learning to rack properly is a fundamental part of the game.
__________________________________________________ __________
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on racking properly, please don't take this as a smart ass comment, I am truly interested in the proper way to do this. Or if you have a link to post. Thank for any replies to this question. <hr></blockquote>

Troy
08-25-2002, 08:37 PM
I don't take your comment as smart ass and I certainly do not claim to be an expert Steve, but here are a few points I've learned from various people over the years ---

1. Use a good quality, sturdy, oak triangle, made with a minimum of 3/8" thick by 2" wide stock with tongue &amp; groove joints. Plastic triangles are absolutely out.

2A. On old cloth, eliminate/reduce the chalk/dust buildup [/b]under[/b] the spot by removing the spot and massaging the cloth in both directions in an area about 4" square. This buildup is the prime cause for 1-Ball roll-off. If the game is 9-Ball or 8-Ball, replace the spot. If the game is 1-Pocket or 14.1, a spot really is un-necessary because the break is soft. (It's that hard 8/9-Ball break that damages the cloth in the spot area.)

2B. On new cloth assure that the (good quality) spot is completely adhered to the cloth.

In either case, I like Master Spots that come in the tin with the rounded lid. I use that lid to rub the spot until I can feel the heat with my fingers.

3. Mark a "center line" from the spot to the foot rail. It's a must for assuring the rack is square to the table. I use a black SharpieŽ.

4. When moving the balls into place, simply [/b]slide[/b] the rack/balls from the rail to the spot. When the 1-Ball is on the spot, gently move the rack forward slightly and examine the balls. When satisfied that all balls are frozen, gently remove the triangle.

If you have a problem getting the balls to freeze, move the location of a couple balls. The chances are that one or more balls are a bit worn and probably slightly small. By the way, the 1-Ball obviously gets the most hard hits and is always the first ball I check for size. (If I have a choice, I exchange it).

Never, never slide the full rack up &amp; back, up &amp; back repeatedly. This might look flashy, but the only real result is wear on the cloth.

Hope this helps. It seems to work for me, well, most of the time.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: StLSteve:</font><hr>
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on racking properly, please don't take this as a smart ass comment, I am truly interested in the proper way to do this. Or if you have a link to post. Thank for any replies to this question. <hr></blockquote>

rackmup
08-26-2002, 07:02 AM
I have found the easiest way to get a tight rack everytime is to place the one ball (or whatever head-ball you choose) on the spot. It will find it's favorite divot and rest there. Now, lay the rack over the head-ball but not touching the head-ball and place the remaining balls into the rack, again, being careful not to bump the head-ball from its resting place. Gently slide the rack back toward the head-ball until snug but being careful not to disturb the ball as it rests in it's divot. Firmly secure the rack to the table with a little downward pressure and slide the remaining balls up against the head-ball. Push the rack slightly forward and...

you get the "Rackmup-O Tight Rack!"

Regards,

Ken (can also be done with all of the balls in the rack but before "final racking", simply move the head-ball into a divot on the spot with the rack slightly forward of the head-ball, pull the rest of the balls back from the head-ball, ensure the head-ball is still secure in it's divot and pull the rack back against it. Now, push the rack to the cloth to hold it in place as you roll the other balls into position and BAM..."Rackmup-O Tight Rack!")

Sid_Vicious
08-26-2002, 07:10 AM
Thanks, I do have that book but it doesn't address anomolies such as this one as far as I've read. Ironically this is one reason I was studying the rack so closely in the beginning, Joe's book hadn't come alive for me until just recently so I was having fun proving that it worked. It was his book which had me really detailing the racks for the last few days, go figure...sid