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View Full Version : Review of AZ Billiards.com



argonath
06-21-2010, 09:23 AM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-45944...AZBilliardscom# (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-45944-Phoenix-Billiards-Examiner~y2010m6d21-Online-Source-for-Phoenix-Billiards--AZBilliardscom#)


Argonath

Fran Crimi
06-21-2010, 11:30 AM
No wonder why Mike isn't warning you about spamming the forum.It all makes sense now. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

argonath
06-21-2010, 02:18 PM
When I started writing my column for the Examiner, I went to each major fourm and asked them beforehand if I could post my article either in their news section, or in their forums.

I dont have a pro or con viewpoint here for anyone's forums... I am trying my best to be neutral (as a columnist should be), and report facts and views as I know/see them.

I do know ALOT of people have major issues with Mike and with AZBilliards.com. I try not to get involved with that so I can be unbiased. Azbilliards is an important site to the Phoenix billiards scene, and since they are the largest billiard forum (hit wise) in the country, even if I had a differing opinion I would be cutting my own throat to get involved in prior affairs.

I hope you realize what I am writing in response isnt a cop-out here... as a columnist I cannot afford to get involved in events... just report them neutrally.

Argonath

hondo
06-21-2010, 07:51 PM
LOL! Good one, Fran.

Fran Crimi
06-22-2010, 06:14 AM
I don't have any issues with Mike. I like him and I've worked with him and will continue to do so when the occasion arises. I do think there is obvious spam and not-so-obvious spam and unfortunately, I think your stuff comes under the second category because you are advertising the web site.

As far as reporting the 'facts and views as 'you' know/see them' --- I applaud your efforts, but you need to research your material more. For example, take your article on the UPA. Are they really the governing body of men's professional pool? Did you interview anyone besides Frank Alvarez? Which pro players did you interview? You might want to give Johnny Archer a call.

Bambu
06-22-2010, 07:31 AM
I think you might get more hits on your own site if you pasted an article instead of just posting a link. Theres something unappealing about clicking a link without first getting a feel for what it really is. Let the people read the article, then if they like it they can click the link at the bottom of the page. By not posting anything concrete, it seems as if you dont wish to contribute here(and are only concerned with your own site).

argonath
06-22-2010, 07:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have any issues with Mike. I like him and I've worked with him and will continue to do so when the occasion arises. I do think there is obvious spam and not-so-obvious spam and unfortunately, I think your stuff comes under the second category because you are advertising the web site.

As far as reporting the 'facts and views as 'you' know/see them' --- I applaud your efforts, but you need to research your material more. For example, take your article on the UPA. Are they really the governing body of men's professional pool? Did you interview anyone besides Frank Alvarez? Which pro players did you interview? You might want to give Johnny Archer a call. </div></div>

The UPA article was simply to give a profile of one of the billiard associations that is in Phoenix. That is my primary readership... Phoenix Billiards.

Needless to say, the old wound I opened was indeed stark, and I wont be doing too much on the UPA in the future unless they have a fundamental change, especially with the Arziona chapters.

Argonath

argonath
06-22-2010, 07:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you might get more hits on your own site if you pasted an article instead of just posting a link. Theres something unappealing about clicking a link without first getting a feel for what it really is. Let the people read the article, then if they like it they can click the link at the bottom of the page. By not posting anything concrete, it seems as if you dont wish to contribute here(and are only concerned with your own site). </div></div>

Will keep that thought in mind.

I write a column dediated to Phoenix Billiards... that is my primary news audience.

I get paid not for selling advertising, but when people read the articles and find good news and information there. Other than the writings, I am not selling any product etc...

But putting out at least a by-line is a good idea when I post the articles.

Argonath

Fran Crimi
06-22-2010, 08:29 AM
I think you have to decide whether or not you want to present your informtaion as fact or opinion. If you're presenting it as fact, then as a journalist you have an obligation to research the material. This isn't about opening wounds or anything else like that. It's about obtaining and reporting the facts, and you haven't done that in your article on the UPA. All that you seemed to have done in your article on the UPA was to ask the UPA to tell you who they are and what they are doing. Have you verified any of it? Now, do you call that responsible reporting?

I don't mean to come down on you so hard, but I have to tell you that because you were so off-base in that article it makes me leery of other things you write. I wonder how much research you've really done.

argonath
06-22-2010, 09:27 AM
Actully...

MOST of the article for the UPA came from their National website. Mission statements, history, etc...

THe problem occurred primarily with the LOCAL chapter Presidents here in Phoenix. When I did research, there WASNT any article or mention (and the UPA staff isnt going to mention it) of the Vegas tournament where the winners got screwed out of their winnings.

The peeps at AZBilliards pointed me to the old articles in the forum, and the story behind it. Needless to say, I did some investigating on that, and the AZ President Lee White had nothing to do with that fiasco... BUT, it appears he distanced himself from it, and it is probably why the UPA is in a death rattle here in Phoenix.

Here is the scoop with me and my column. I started writing it in April, and I know I will be spending the next 6 months or so trying to create the founation in my articles for Examiner readers to get a full understanding of billiards in Phoenix. Once I have those (probbaly 200) articles in place as reference, then I can start doing more provocative stories.

The second issue here is article length. The Examiner wants more short pithy articles (200 - 400 words) as its normal format. It is a bit more difficult to write something fully concise in (200 - 600 words max) unless I break it down into 'parts' in an expose.

But hey, Im learning. Im a writer by trade, but new in journalism, so I thank you for the critique and comments. One doesnt know what to fix, or what people like to read unless I get the good, bad, and constructive.


Argonath

Fran Crimi
06-22-2010, 11:25 AM
I'm glad to see that you've done some background research (although I'm not letting you off the hook --- you should have done more). In hindsight, maybe your UPA article should not have qualified for one of the short, ptihy ones. Also, if you're going to write about pool on a national level, then you're going to have to expand your network of information outside of your immediate area. Anyone who declares themselves a governing body of anything in the U.S. is no longer a local issue.

Good luck with your writing and thanks for not taking offense at my comments.

Rich R.
06-23-2010, 07:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: argonath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I write a column dediated to Phoenix Billiards... that is my primary news audience. </div></div>
I can appreciate that your main audience is the billiard community of the Phoenix area. I can also appreciate that almost all of your writing concerns Phoenix establishments. What I don't understand is why you feel the need to post this stuff here, on a national forum.

The fact is, most of the people reading this forum will never visit Phoenix and have no interest in these threads. If you have noticed, you have gotten very few responses to your threads. That should tell you something.

I don't mean to discourage you from posting on this forum but it would be nice if you posted something of interest to everyone and not just those in the Phoenix area. As a writer, you have to know your audience.

Scott Lee
06-28-2010, 01:30 AM
I agree with Rich, argonath. You are posting WAY too many "local" Arizona 'reviews' to be of much relevance to the readership here, or on AzB. I don't know about "issues" with Mike/AzB, but it is a very popular site (#1 for pool information), and your constant barrage of threads that are designed to 'educate' Phoenix poolplayers/readers seems to border on excessive on both forums. Cocobolo Cowboy (another Phoenix resident) used to do the same thing...post multiple threads of no real consequence to the majority of the audience, and was banned for it. You might look at limiting the majority of your posts to Stuckart's site, which is about pool in Arizona, including Phoenix.

I also agree with Fran, that you don't seem to do much research. For example, in your earlier post in this thread, you refer to the "UPA Vegas tournament where the players got screwed out of their winnings", when in fact that tournament was held in Phoenix. If you think the UPA (as a professional association) is a "death rattle" in Phoenix, you might be interested to know that those feelings aren't exclusive to Phoenix, or even the SW. They are pretty universal nationwide (which probably explains why they don't have many (if any) events going on).

Lastly, don't be too quick to judge someone on the number of posts they have. Many of us just read, and don't post much. I've been on here more than 15 years, but post little. AzB sees much more 'action', and I'm more active there. TCIndepMO is a respected poster, with some credibility, both here and on AzB. JMO

Scott Lee

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: argonath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I write a column dediated to Phoenix Billiards... that is my primary news audience. </div></div>
I can appreciate that your main audience is the billiard community of the Phoenix area. I can also appreciate that almost all of your writing concerns Phoenix establishments. What I don't understand is why you feel the need to post this stuff here, on a national forum.

The fact is, most of the people reading this forum will never visit Phoenix and have no interest in these threads. If you have noticed, you have gotten very few responses to your threads. That should tell you something.

I don't mean to discourage you from posting on this forum but it would be nice if you posted something of interest to everyone and not just those in the Phoenix area. As a writer, you have to know your audience.

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