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View Full Version : Stuck between a rock and a hard place



eg8r
06-25-2010, 07:15 AM
While I don't get to go to the beach as often as I would like, about 2 weekends a month is almost getting the job done. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Anyways, the blocking of Obama's ban has me questioning a few things in my own thinking. I certainly respect our Constitution so I am in agreement with the judge's reasoning behind blocking the ban, but the ocean/beach lover in me hates this ruling completely. I don't think it is too much to ask for these companies to stop what they are doing and perform some serious test results to prove they are not in danger of the same atrocities that have already happened nor are they in danger of something else malfunctioning without the proper safety measures in place. Cost savings that are less than a millionth of a percent in revenue should not have this type of impact on our environment or economy.

I love our beaches, my kids playing in the sand, picking up sea shells, splashing with them in the water, etc. My wife and I like to walk up and down the beach in the evenings. I have close to a 300 gallon saltwater tank with 100% aquacultured livestock. I love everything about the ocean and am devastated by what has happened which is why I am torn. As an American with strong Constitutional values I cannot accept the Government swooping in and crushing an economy that is already devastated.

eg8r <~~torn between what is right and what I love

Sev
06-25-2010, 07:25 AM
Its a tough spot.

However if all the rigs are not currently being investigated for safety violations then somebody has dropped the ball.
It is not necessary to shut all the rigs down to perform these investigations.

The rigs cost about 500,000,000 million a day to run. If they are shut down for six months they will be moved to other regions.
Also it is estimated that it would another 6 to 12 months for the rigs to be brought back online.

By the end of 18 months the economic damage would have been done.

Qtec
06-25-2010, 07:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rigs cost about 500,000,000 million a day to run. </div></div>

You are a moron.

Q

eg8r
06-25-2010, 07:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However if all the rigs are not currently being investigated for safety violations then somebody has dropped the ball.
It is not necessary to shut all the rigs down to perform these investigations.</div></div>How do you know? What is your knowledge of the inner workings of these rigs and the level of regression testing needed to provide the "warm fuzzy" that all is well?

eg8r

Qtec
06-25-2010, 07:34 AM
We know for a fact that regulation under Bush was a joke. Who knows how many other drillers are pushing the envelope, taking chances?

Q

eg8r
06-25-2010, 07:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We know for a fact that regulation under Bush was a joke.</div></div>We also know that Obama did nothing pre-emptively to fix the problem. I am willing to bet (non-monetarily though) that every single rig out there is "pushing the envelope".

eg8r

Chopstick
06-25-2010, 08:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We know for a fact that regulation under Bush was a joke. </div></div>

No, we don't. I read the regulatory changes made under the Bush administration. None of them referred to safety protocols in any way. Obama told congress to lift the ban on new drilling just before this happened or did you forget? He also gave 2 billion dollars of our money to a foreign company, Petrabras to go drill in the Gulf of Mexico at three times the depth that BP was and they are not subject to US regulations.

Chopstick
06-25-2010, 08:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't think it is too much to ask for these companies to stop what they are doing and perform some serious test results to prove they are not in danger of the same atrocities that have already happened nor are they in danger of something else malfunctioning without the proper safety measures in place. </div></div>

Those tests are performed before the rigs are put into operations and there are companies out there that are doing it right. BP performed a test on the pipe and it failed twice. They knew it could blow and went ahead anyway. It is a clear case of negligence. They should be banned from US waters and their executives should be prosecuted.

We should not punish companies that are doing the right things because of BP. There is a guy over on AZ who works on one of those rigs. You should hear him talk about the way that BP rig was setup.

eg8r
06-25-2010, 09:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those tests are performed before the rigs are put into operations and there are companies out there that are doing it right. BP performed a test on the pipe and it failed twice. They knew it could blow and went ahead anyway. It is a clear case of negligence. They should be banned from US waters and their executives should be prosecuted.</div></div>So is this a case of BP lying about test results or an auditor/inspector letting it go by? If it is a case of BP lying about test results how do you know other companies are not lying also?

I don't think requesting companies to provide viable test results is punishing them at all. Did the guy over on Az work on other rigs? If not, how would he know if other rigs were not just as bad?

This is why I say I am stuck between a rock and a hard place on this issue.

eg8r

eg8r
06-25-2010, 09:17 AM
Chop you bring up some good points but as we all know 2 wrongs just make things worse. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Q why don't you document here each specific piece of regulation that you are referring to that you feel led to BP blowing a leak.

eg8r

Chopstick
06-25-2010, 09:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is this a case of BP lying about test results or an auditor/inspector letting it go by? If it is a case of BP lying about test results how do you know other companies are not lying also?
</div></div>

The Mineral Management Service is the watchdog agency for those rigs. BP didn't lie about it. The MMS knew about it and gave them a pass anyway. The MMS is where the crackdown needs to be. Those guys have been playing it fast and loose with the oil companies for years. If they had been doing their job, none of this would have ever happened and yes they report to Obama and he knew about it same as Bush, and Clinton and they all let it pass.

eg8r
06-25-2010, 09:39 AM
Did the MMS give other rigs a pass? It is safe to believe they probably did which is why the test results need to be re-evaluated.

eg8r

Deeman3
06-25-2010, 11:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div>

The Mineral Management Service is the watchdog agency for those rigs. [/quote]

<span style="color: #FF0000">...and as a strange a twist of fate as there could be, according to Q, the MMS still reported to Bush after over a year and a half after he left office. Bush even appointed the people that were to clean up this agency right under Obama's nose (he was taking a smoke break).

I have never seen such a case of Bush Derangement Syndrome since van de Sloop was framed for the Natlie Holliway murder by Dick Cheney! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Why bother with trying to explain this to him. He is under the influence of his new countrymen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</span>

Sev
06-25-2010, 01:34 PM
Because not all the rigs are owned by BP. From what I have heard the others have the proper equipment in place.

If they did not dont you think by know that the media would screaming about it?

cushioncrawler
06-26-2010, 08:50 PM
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns and destroyed the lives of our people:

First it woz the King, and now BP.
madMac.

Qtec
06-27-2010, 04:55 AM
Its not a tough spot but its dead simple. If these oil companies say they can drill safely in deep waters and they can prove it, then let them.

What happened here was that BP etc took chances to save money and the consequences have and will be disastrous for the south. The oversite was a joke and still is.

Q

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 07:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We know for a fact that regulation under Bush was a joke. </div></div>

No, we don't. I read the regulatory changes made under the Bush administration. None of them referred to safety protocols in any way. Obama told congress to lift the ban on new drilling just before this happened or did you forget? He also gave 2 billion dollars of our money to a foreign company, Petrabras to go drill in the Gulf of Mexico at three times the depth that BP was and they are not subject to US regulations. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read the regulatory changes made under the Bush administration. None of them referred to safety protocols in any way. </div></div>

LOL.... exactly, because there weren't any. Numerous employees for these oil companies have testified that the oil industry under Bush, wrote their own regulations, which means no regulations, with compliments, from Dick Cheney. Ken Lay chose the agency heads for the entire energy agency structure.



There is just no way in the world that you righties can get away with denying the George Bush designed the most anti-regulatory energy policies in history.

I've already posted all of the information which proves, also, the tactics that the Bush/Cheney environmental destruction organization used to make it nearly impossible for the next incoming president to reverse them, without ging all the way through re-reguloatory legislative processes all over again.

I guess you righties think this president had loads of time to look into all of that, in the midst of fighting off the next depression!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

pooltchr
07-01-2010, 08:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
I guess you righties think this president had loads of time to look into all of that, in the midst of fighting off the next depression!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif




</div></div>

That's why he has a staff. A good president surrounds himself with good qualified people to handle their individual responsibilities. A bad one surrounds himself with friends, and people he owes favors to.

I don't expect Obama to know jack ship about oil drilling. I do expect him to have someone who does to be in position to deal with these things. Guess he didn't do too well in that department.

Competent management requires putting competent people into key positions.

Steve

wolfdancer
07-02-2010, 01:47 AM
So that's what the problem is at FedEx. No wonder the price has dropped from 97.75 to 72.00.....
Who cares what you expect the President to know? Your opinion and six bits will get you a cup of coffee.
BP should have the experts to handle this event....it's only morons like you,trying to pass the blame for the leak onto him, that come up with crap....for your info, Bubba.....there is no secretary of oil leaks, position.....and that effen idiot GWB, wouldn't know what the **** to do either.
Obama must be getting the best advice....that stands to reason
You got all the effen answers....why don't you phone the WH?...

pooltchr
07-02-2010, 06:18 AM
woofie...bite me!


Steve

Gayle in MD
07-02-2010, 06:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So that's what the problem is at FedEx. No wonder the price has dropped from 97.75 to 72.00.....
Who cares what you expect the President to know? Your opinion and six bits will get you a cup of coffee.
BP should have the experts to handle this event....it's only morons like you,trying to pass the blame for the leak onto him, that come up with crap....for your info, Bubba.....there is no secretary of oil leaks, position.....and that effen idiot GWB, wouldn't know what the **** to do either.
Obama must be getting the best advice....that stands to reason
You got all the effen answers....why don't you phone the WH?... </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Facts are facts, and the fact is that Bush/cheney corrupted the entire federal government completely, and particularly the ennergy oversight agencies.

Obama would have to have fired every single top level RW Bushy, basically the entire Federal government's energy oversight structure, while struggling under threat of Bush's impending depression.

The right can overlook everything, and anything, under a Republican crook, then turn right around and deny who made the mess, and expect miracles overnight.

Republicans have proven they are working as hard as they can to worsen every challenge we face, and build on Bush's failed policies.

They always promise the ONLY thing the right cares about, tax cuts, and then they promise small gov. and reduced spending.

Problem is, the only time it ever happened in hsitory, was when Bill Clinton held the Veto pen, and raised taxes on the filthy rich....and I do mean filthy.

Both REagan and Bush one, raised taxes after they could see that their Voodoo economics were crashing the country.

Bush two just kept on borrowing.

Facts are facts, except when a RW brain is compling them.

Just look at the people down around the Gulf!!!! It's filling up with oil, and they're screaming ab out shutting down a fraction of wells, of which none are currently producing oil, just exploring.

They should be screaming for windmills and solar energy, and shutting down even more of those wells, but did they learn anything from this mess, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Republicans are defending BP, as the oil surges, while those dummies down there are bitching over closing down deep wells!!! The sad part is that those Bubbas down there will go right back into the voting booth and vote for them again!

This is why the country is in the mess it's in, the BUBBA vote!

G.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

</span>

pooltchr
07-02-2010, 07:00 AM
And somehow, you think it's perfectly fine to blame Republicans for everything wrong in the country, and then cheer the Dems for doing the exact same things, only worse!

Bush spent money and it was bad, so Obama has to spend more money, and it is good.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Bush didn't react fast enough after Katrina and it was bad.
Obama didn't react fast enough to the oil spill and it is good.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

RR granted amnesty and it was bad.
Obama wants to grant amnesty and it is good.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I'm starting to see a trend here...


Steve