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Deeman3
06-30-2010, 09:29 AM
If this doesn't get to you, then check your pulse. You may be a flat line...


Should you want to verify this, go to http://www.thomas.gov/, enter "HR 3590"
in the search box and look for "CRS Summaries." This is what you'll find.

Title IX Revenue Provisions—Subtitle A: Revenue Offset
"(Sec. 9002) Requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee
the aggregate cost of applicable employer-sponsored group health coverage
that is excludable from the employee's gross income (excluding the value of
contributions to flexible spending arrangements)."


Starting in 2011—next year—the W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be
increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are provided.
It doesn't matter if you're retired. Your gross income WILL go up by the amount
of insurance your employer paid for So you’ll be required to pay taxes on a larger
sum of money that you actually received. Take the tax form you just finished for
2009 and see what $15,000.00 or $20,000.00 additional gross income does to
your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year. For many it puts you into a
much higher bracket. This is how the government is going to buy insurance for
fifteen (15) percent that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases,
but it's not really a "tax increase" as such, it a redefinition of your taxable income.

Also, go to Kiplinger's and read about the thirteen (13) tax changes for 2010 that
could affect you.

eg8r
06-30-2010, 10:08 AM
Wait, didn't Obama tell us he would not raise taxes on those making less than 250k? Jeesh, has he been honest about anything yet?

eg8r

pooltchr
06-30-2010, 10:54 AM
This is how they got HCR to slip by without using the real cost. They just passed more of it to us!

I can't wait to hear how our leftist friends spin this one!

Maybe Gayle can explain to us how this happened.


Steve

bobroberts
06-30-2010, 12:44 PM
Its about time this forum wakes up to one of the worse politicians ever.He lies to everyone he talks to.He has gone back on his word on almost everything he has campaigned for.Wake up people.Obama is not the answer.He has now become the problem.
He doesn't have the experience to run a country of our magnitude.In November there will this time be real change.

Gayle in MD
06-30-2010, 01:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this doesn't get to you, then check your pulse. You may be a flat line...


Should you want to verify this, go to http://www.thomas.gov/, enter "HR 3590"
in the search box and look for "CRS Summaries." This is what you'll find.

Title IX Revenue Provisions—Subtitle A: Revenue Offset
"(Sec. 9002) Requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee
the aggregate cost of applicable employer-sponsored group health coverage
that is excludable from the employee's gross income (excluding the value of
contributions to flexible spending arrangements)."


Starting in 2011—next year—the W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be
increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are provided.
It doesn't matter if you're retired. Your gross income WILL go up by the amount
of insurance your employer paid for So you’ll be required to pay taxes on a larger
sum of money that you actually received. Take the tax form you just finished for
2009 and see what $15,000.00 or $20,000.00 additional gross income does to
your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year. For many it puts you into a
much higher bracket. This is how the government is going to buy insurance for
fifteen (15) percent that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases,
but it's not really a "tax increase" as such, it a redefinition of your taxable income.

Also, go to Kiplinger's and read about the thirteen (13) tax changes for 2010 that
could affect you.
</div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000">Good! It's about time you freeloaders paid your way. </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Deeman3
06-30-2010, 02:02 PM
I agree, many of us are "freeloaders" but as we were just forced to raise (double) our out of pocket money for drugs and medical services it is probably my employees, unlike those of us fortunate enough to be freeloaders who will bear the brunt of these tax increases as well as the increased health care costs. Most of them are middle income who were promised that their health care plans would not be impacted and more directly that their taxes, if making less than $250K would not go up.

Was this a blatent lie or simple another oversight like his cabinet forgetting to pay their taxes?

If you can't explain the dropping approval numbers of Obama and the already tanked ones for the Democratic Party, perhaps it is the sudden realization that they have been taken by a Chicago Organizer who does not care one hoot about the poor or the middle class in this country.

Perhaps this will add to the "ever growing popularity" of the Health Care Bill as people really do get to know it better.

YOu can hide a lot of misery, deception and pork in a 2,000 page bill that "nobody read anyway". "It is a work in progress as all bills are and it will be worked out in the end." Who's "end" will it be worked out into anyway? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

The supposed benefits are years down the road but the pain will be evident in just a few months. Politically, it is amazing.

eg8r
06-30-2010, 02:10 PM
Gayle's response was such a slap in the face of our low to middle income earners.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
06-30-2010, 02:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree, many of us are "freeloaders" but as we were just forced to raise (double) our out of pocket money for drugs and medical services it is probably my employees, unlike those of us fortunate enough to be freeloaders who will bear the brunt of these tax increases as well as the increased health care costs. Most of them are middle income who were promised that their health care plans would not be impacted and more directly that their taxes, if making less than $250K would not go up.

Was this a blatent lie or simple another oversight like his cabinet forgetting to pay their taxes?

<span style="color: #FF0000">They weren't in business with the bin Laden's.... </span>
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
If you can't explain the dropping approval numbers of Obama and the already tanked ones for the Democratic Party, perhaps it is the sudden realization that they have been taken by a Chicago Organizer who does not care one hoot about the poor or the middle class in this country.

<span style="color: #FF0000">He was a state Senator, and a Unitede States Senator. But then, you didn't hear that on Beck's show, right? </span>

<span style="color: #FF6666">But what would you know about that, Deeman, when you defend the biggest opportunist in history, the Godzilla from Wasilla, after bashing Hillary for years on here, you finally get to see what a real opportunist looks like, lol. Hillary, OTOH, is working herself to pieces, trying to keep you safe. </span>

Perhaps this will add to the "ever growing popularity" of the Health Care Bill as people really do get to know it better.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Kills ya, doesn't it? That approval for the HC Bill is growing? </span>

YOu can hide a lot of misery, deception and pork in a 2,000 page bill that "nobody read anyway".

<span style="color: #FF0000">Or you can hide it in "Emergency Funding" like Bush did....too, and then borrow money to spend even more! </span>
"It is a work in progress as all bills are and it will be worked out in the end." Who's "end" will it be worked out into anyway? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

The supposed benefits are years down the road but the pain will be evident in just a few months. Politically, it is amazing.


<span style="color: #FF0000">At least there are SOME benefits coming, which is more than we can say for Bush's spending....You've yet to come up with any benefits to Americans from Bush's two disasters in the Middle East, so maybe you should hold back with all the criticisms, since you didn't even bother to vote the last time, I'd say you lost your right to complain.... </span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000">Hilarious how the Republicans complain about reading a measly two thousand pages! They had months to read it, and they were still bitching about reading a measly two thousand pages, LMAO! Like leaders, like followers.

Well, now, I'd say that given all the internet trollers around here, most of them don't deserve their employer paid health care in the first place.

It's hilarious how all these Primo Managers on here are ripping off their employers languishing on the net all day...

Time to pay the pipper you guys, there's no free lunch!

G.</span>

Deeman3
06-30-2010, 02:54 PM
The precise point I was making, that the ones paying the highest price are the middle class and they are now beginning to understand this as opposed to what he promised.

You know the bill was rushed through on a Friday with less than 24 hoours to read it. Most of us on here pointed that out but you said it would all be made clear as soon as it was approved. Now that it is, most Americans are very disapponited, the least of which is me. If the right was the problem, the Dems would have no problems right now. It si the people who voted for Obama wwho are mad. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

pooltchr
06-30-2010, 04:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle's response was such a slap in the face of our low to middle income earners.

eg8r </div></div>

Ed, haven't you figured out yet that she thinks she is better than everyone else?

She is an elitist with an attitude. No wonder she likes Obama...they are two of a kind!

Steve

Gayle in MD
06-30-2010, 04:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The precise point I was making, that the ones paying the highest price are the middle class and they are now beginning to understand this as opposed to what he promised.

You know the bill was rushed through on a Friday with less than 24 hoours to read it. Most of us on here pointed that out but you said it would all be made clear as soon as it was approved. Now that it is, most Americans are very disapponited, the least of which is me. If the right was the problem, the Dems would have no problems right now. It si the people who voted for Obama wwho are mad. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

That's an interesting twist on the facts, because Republicans were bitching about the two thousand pages for atleast seven months! I'd say you're memory is a bit off. The Middle Class are the people who are unemployed, not the ones who have cushy jobs with all medicals paid by the company....perhaps, you're confused about what Middle Class indicates????

Let's not forget which party is blocking unemployment payments, for the many hard working Middle Class people who lost their jobs because of BUSH, and are now losing their unemploymkent money because of REPUBLICANS, who are all the while protecting the thieves on Wall Street, he credit card companies, and corporations such as BP's interests. If you think people can't see that, you're really out there.

The energy, financial and insurance industries have been scamming the public for years, and Republicans have blocked every effort by this administration, and by the Democratics, to hold them to account. It's the same ol' Bush problem, no accountability, which leads to grand theft. People understand that now, even if you righties are still in denial.

As I said, you'd all be standing in a soup line, if not for Obama, and the Democratic Party....


Republicans don't care about the environemnt, our children's future and safety, or what is best for America, they ONLY care about their rich friends, and their corrupt special interest cohearts, as far as our national heritage, you know, the little things, like water, air and food, they could give a damn....they prove that with every vote. It's undeniable. Republiocans are defending BP! If that doesn't open your eyes, nothing will. The only thing you righties can focus on is the happenstance of seeing an African American leaving Wallmart with a flat screen TV!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
G.

pooltchr
06-30-2010, 07:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Republicans don't care about the environemnt, our children's future and safety, or what is best for America,
G. </div></div>

And you think Obama does????????????

10 days after the deepwater explosion, we had offers from other countries to help clean up the oil, but the Obama administration wouldn't accept it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sc-dc-0625-jones-act-qa-20100624,0,3887226.story



Q: Did the Dutch offer assistance immediately after the Deepwater Horizon exploded?

A: The State Department says the Dutch government and private businesses <span style='font-size: 14pt'>offered various types of assistance on April 30, 10 days after the explosion.</span> That included proposals to sell equipment as well as offers of technical advice.

Romania, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom made similar offers that same day, according to a summary provided by the State Department. The Netherlands' offer consisted of <span style='font-size: 14pt'>"state-of-the-art skimming arms</span> made by the Dutch company Koseq," according to a statement issued by the Dutch Embassy. It also involved <span style='font-size: 14pt'>help to Louisiana in building sand berms intended to keep the oil from washing ashore.</span>

Q: Did the U.S. reject the offer?

A: On May 5, the U.S. State Department issued a statement acknowledging that it had received several offers from countries. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>"While there is no need right now that the U.S. cannot meet</span>, the U.S. Coast Guard is assessing these offers of assistance to see if there will be something which we will need in the near future," the statement said.

The offer of skimmers was accepted on May 23, when BP purchased three Koseq sweeping arms.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>As of June 21, the other Dutch offers were considered "under consideration"</span> and the response team had also accepted aid from Mexico, Canada and Norway.



Now here we are 70 days later, with oil in the marshes, and the administration now deciddes they might need a little help?

The bulk of the environmental damage could have been drastically reduced, if no eliminated, if we had let the Dutch come over with their equipment when they made the offer.

Why didn't Obama accept?
Because he wanted the Dutch to train American UNION workers to operate the equipment. So rather than have experienced people go to work immediately, he wanted a bunch of UNION trainees to attempt the job, after they learned how to operate the equipment.

Don't even try to claim he cares one bit about the environment. Obama has used this disaster to further his own agenda. The one thing he did immediately was to stop offshore drilling. Since then, nothing! Just let the oil hit the coast.

It has to be bad enough for him to be able to push for "sweeping fundamental changes" to our energy policy, which is what he has wanted all along. For some reason, the left hates the oil industry (While cruising around in their SUVs, jets, and boats), and this is possibly a stepping stone to either the government taking over the industry, or shutting it down.

And you, Gayle, buy into it all, hook, line, and sinker!

Steve

Stretch
06-30-2010, 09:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The precise point I was making, that the ones paying the highest price are the middle class and they are now beginning to understand this as opposed to what he promised.

You know the bill was rushed through on a Friday with less than 24 hoours to read it. Most of us on here pointed that out but you said it would all be made clear as soon as it was approved. Now that it is, most Americans are very disapponited, the least of which is me. If the right was the problem, the Dems would have no problems right now. It si the people who voted for Obama wwho are mad. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

That's an interesting twist on the facts, because Republicans were bitching about the two thousand pages for atleast seven months! I'd say you're memory is a bit off. The Middle Class are the people who are unemployed, not the ones who have cushy jobs with all medicals paid by the company....perhaps, you're confused about what Middle Class indicates????

Let's not forget which party is blocking unemployment payments, while protecting the thieves on Wall Street, he credit card companies, and corporations such as BP's interests. If you think people can't see that, you're really out there.

The energy, financial and insurance industries have been scamming the public for years, and Republicans have blocked every effort by this administration, and by the Democratics, to hold them to account. It's the same ol' Bush problem, no accountability, which leads to grand theft. People understand that now, even if you righties are still in denial.

As I said, you'd all be standing in a soup line, if not for Obama, and the Democratic Party....


Republicans don't care about the environemnt, our children's future and safety, or what is best for America, they ONLY care about their rich friends, and their corrupt special interests cohearts, as far as our national heritage, you know, the little things, like water, air and food, they could give a damn....they prove that with every vote. It's undeniable. Republiocans arfe defending BP! If that doesn't open your eyes, nothing will. the only thing you righties can focus on is the happenstance of seeing ann African American leaving Wallmart with a flat screen TV!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
G. </div></div>

Right on Gayle! Democracy is being dismantled by the Corpratization of our sociaty with the Republicans leading the charge! As in the Middle Ages 1% of the richest people own 90% of the wealth. It makes me laugh when they cry about giving a 300 dollar a month cheque to a welfare mother, most of which is imediately spent in the consumer marketplace but completely fail to see all the Corperate welfare going on. Yet by any yardstick there is far more crime, far more violence, and far more welfare dispursments (and far more addictors) in the Corporate world than in the empoverished street arena. St.

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 08:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The precise point I was making, that the ones paying the highest price are the middle class and they are now beginning to understand this as opposed to what he promised.

You know the bill was rushed through on a Friday with less than 24 hoours to read it. Most of us on here pointed that out but you said it would all be made clear as soon as it was approved. Now that it is, most Americans are very disapponited, the least of which is me. If the right was the problem, the Dems would have no problems right now. It si the people who voted for Obama wwho are mad. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

That's an interesting twist on the facts, because Republicans were bitching about the two thousand pages for atleast seven months! I'd say you're memory is a bit off. The Middle Class are the people who are unemployed, not the ones who have cushy jobs with all medicals paid by the company....perhaps, you're confused about what Middle Class indicates????

Let's not forget which party is blocking unemployment payments, while protecting the thieves on Wall Street, he credit card companies, and corporations such as BP's interests. If you think people can't see that, you're really out there.

The energy, financial and insurance industries have been scamming the public for years, and Republicans have blocked every effort by this administration, and by the Democratics, to hold them to account. It's the same ol' Bush problem, no accountability, which leads to grand theft. People understand that now, even if you righties are still in denial.

As I said, you'd all be standing in a soup line, if not for Obama, and the Democratic Party....


Republicans don't care about the environemnt, our children's future and safety, or what is best for America, they ONLY care about their rich friends, and their corrupt special interests cohearts, as far as our national heritage, you know, the little things, like water, air and food, they could give a damn....they prove that with every vote. It's undeniable. Republiocans arfe defending BP! If that doesn't open your eyes, nothing will. the only thing you righties can focus on is the happenstance of seeing ann African American leaving Wallmart with a flat screen TV!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
G. </div></div>

Right on Gayle! Democracy is being dismantled by the Corpratization of our sociaty with the Republicans leading the charge! As in the Middle Ages 1% of the richest people own 90% of the wealth. It makes me laugh when they cry about giving a 300 dollar a month cheque to a welfare mother, most of which is imediately spent in the consumer marketplace but completely fail to see all the Corperate welfare going on. Yet by any yardstick there is far more crime, far more violence, and far more welfare dispursments (and far more addictors) in the Corporate world than in the empoverished street arena. St. </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Very true, Stretch. Republicans have blatantly done every single thing they could do to prevent recovery. Now, they are blocking unemployment benefits to those who were scammed by Wall Street, the insurance industry, the health care industry, and this, after their years in power during which they completely ignored the coming crises from their own spending spree, as they were subsidizing the very corporate interests which have stolen what was our bright post Clinton future, from the American People, by allowing corporate outsourcing of jobs, and allowing China to cheat us on the global market for years, so that Bush could keep spending and borrowing.

Clearly, unemployment benefits help to stimulate the economy. Virtually every economist agrees to that much. Republicans are blocking that.

Virtually every economist stated back when Bush began to dismantle America, that we had NEVER cut taxes during war time, and that is was dangerous to do so.

While Cheney, (and some of the sheep around here) was out there feeding the right this BS that DEBTS DON'T MATTER!!!!....Bush and the blank check Republican majority pushed us right straight into this mess with their irresponsible policies of unchecked spending, luanching un-necessary war in Iraq, a very costly and totally illogical foreign policy, which made evrything even worse for America, while cutting taxes, and borrowing to pay for all of it.

This economic crash, like 9/11, happened on Bush's watch, after many warnings, which he completely ignored, and yet, Republicans have the colossal NERVE to block the spending which is now critical to recovery, and continue their protections of the thieves who had robbed all of us for eight years, with Bush's blessings, AND SUBSIDIES....and for the last twelve years of Republican Congressional majority of cronyism and corruption, breaking earmark records, while digging us deeper into debt as they went, with the usual failoed Republican Economic policies, cugt taxes and spend your ass off.

It is absolutely absurd, now, after years of their refusal to own up to the growing economic dangers which were growing due to Bush's economic policies, to NOW turn around and harp on spending, when we have no choice, if we wish to recover from Bush's near Depression, but to spend.

It takes time to recover from the worst financial disaster since the Great Depression, ON BUSH"S WATCH, and it was predicted all along to take time before we would recover.

There clearly has not been enough time to launch the kind of programs which will grow jobs, things like re-building the infrastructure which Republicans allowed to crumble under our very eyes, while they blew billions upon billions in the Middle East, under false pretenses, in order to aid their quest for their cronies oil contracts.

Their hasn't been enough time to lay the buiding blocks to divert our country farther away from dependence on oil, and toward a policy which would create new clean energy jobs, energy saving high speed railways, solar, wind, natural gas, and conservation methods which would pressure these greedy crooks to come into line with what is best for America, instead of just what will fill their own pockets.

It has been clear which party has bulked over anything which would even the playing filed between corporoate corruption and undue power in the halls of Congress, and the best interests of average Amaericans. REPUBLICANS BLOCK PROGRESS! REPUBLICANS VOTE TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO, AND AGAINST PROGRESS.

We have a lot to do, but I firmly believe that if Republicans gain back the majority, after watching them now for decades with their promises to cut taxes, after which they spend their asses off, and vote ONLY to benefit the wealthy, this country and it's future opportunities, will be OVER! DONE! They have burried America in lies and slander, and in the meantimie, both Bush's S.C. nominees, have created the building blocks for a fascist nation.

It is absolutely outrageous reading the same ridiculous lies on this website, written by the same attackers who denied all of our warnings for eight years about what Bush, and the blank check Republican majority was doing to this country, and now see them on here lying, and denying, just as they did all along, and blaming everyone else except their own ignorance for failooing to take note of the gorwing disasters being cfrfeated by their own Party, gross negligence, which is proven with their own votes, for more and more of what put us into this ditch in the first place, and what was clearly all along, damaging our country both economically, and within the range of National Security, as we went farther into debt from policies which were not in the best interests of the country, and which brough nothing but strife and greater problems to our country!

Now, thesse same rightwing nutjobs, have not only no patience, but assume no responsibility, and have also, conveniently lost their collective memory!

Suffice it to say, DEBTS DO MATTER.....Dick Cheney!!!!....and now, we have no choice but to spend in order to recover, as is always the case after economic collapse, so to the Republicans, get the hell out of the damn way, so we Democratics can clean up this latest colossal mess you've made, AGAIN! And while you're at it, stop creating a party of ignorant impeciles with your damned lies, slander and proprganda, it was the ignorance of te American Public which put us into this mess, so have some conscinece, for once, and do what is best for the country, not your corporate cronies without honor or integrity.



UNBELIEVABLE!

G. </span>

eg8r
07-01-2010, 09:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's an interesting twist on the facts, because Republicans were bitching about the two thousand pages for atleast seven months! </div></div>Yes and you were the fool that told us they never existed. You kept saying, "there is no bill". Obama is getting ready to tax the crap out of the middle and low income wage earners.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I said, you'd all be standing in a soup line, if not for Obama, and the Democratic Party....</div></div>Thanks to Obama we have added 3 million people to that soup line. Pretty sad that you support that type of horrendous change.

eg8r

eg8r
07-01-2010, 09:28 AM
I know she thinks she is better than everyone else. I just like to point it out every time she looks down on those pathetic low and middle income earners. She talks about wanting to help them and then she stabs them in the back.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 09:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's an interesting twist on the facts, because Republicans were bitching about the two thousand pages for atleast seven months! </div></div>Yes and you were the fool that told us they never existed. You kept saying, "there is no bill".

<span style="color: #FF0000">AS USUAL, YOU LIE. I only said that while there were at least five or six different bills under consideration. STOP WITH THE LIES, ED. </span>


Obama is getting ready to tax the crap out of the middle and low income wage earners.

<span style="color: #FF0000">MORE LIES. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I said, you'd all be standing in a soup line, if not for Obama, and the Democratic Party....</div></div>Thanks to Obama we have added 3 million people to that soup line. Pretty sad that you support that type of horrendous change.

eg8r </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000">JOB LOSSES WERE PREDICTED TO CONTINUE DUE TO THE BUSH RECESSION, ALMOST A DEPRESSION, FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND MAKE A VERY SLOW RECOVERY. THE JOB LOSS RATE HAS DECREASED MEASURABLY UNDER OBAMA, COMPARED TO THE LAST TWO YEARS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

!</span>
<span style="color: #FF0000">Pretty sad that you fail to account for what caused all of it, REPUBLICAN SPENDING, BORROWING, CUTTING TAXES WHILE LAUNCHING TWO WARS, AND REPUBLICANS BREAKING OF ALL PREVIOUS EARMARK RECORDS, AS BUSH BROKE ALL BORROWING RECORDS.

Republicans drove the train off the track. It ALL happened under Bush's watch, and under A BLANC CHECK REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

G.</span>

eg8r
07-01-2010, 09:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AS USUAL, YOU LIE. I only said that while there were at least five or six different bills under consideration. STOP WITH THE LIES, ED.
</div></div>Your memory sucks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JOB LOSSES WERE PREDICTED TO ...</div></div>MAX OUT AT 8%. Thanks to your piss poor decision to vote this man into office that number jumped to almost 10%. It is sad you took the ignorant way out and chose to ignore what people were saying. Now you sound stupid by trying to change what was said in the past about W's spending and we have your idiot in there spending even more than W. We get it, you were a fool when you called him a cokehead, then you cemented your foolishness when you voted for him and now you are trying to steal qtips "village idiot" award with your defense of obama's unemployment misjudgement. You laugh at the destruction of the Florida economy and environment. You are just heading downhill fast.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 09:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AS USUAL, YOU LIE. I only said that while there were at least five or six different bills under consideration. STOP WITH THE LIES, ED.
</div></div>Your memory sucks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JOB LOSSES WERE PREDICTED TO ...</div></div>MAX OUT AT 8%. Thanks to your piss poor decision to vote this man into office that number jumped to almost 10%. It is sad you took the ignorant way out and chose to ignore what people were saying. Now you sound stupid by trying to change what was said in the past about W's spending and we have your idiot in there spending even more than W. We get it, you were a fool when you called him a cokehead, then you cemented your foolishness when you voted for him and now you are trying to steal qtips "village idiot" award with your defense of obama's unemployment misjudgement. You laugh at the destruction of the Florida economy and environment. You are just heading downhill fast.

eg8r </div></div>


You're out of touch, Ed. I feel sorry for you. I hope yu can get some soon, you need it.

G.

Deeman3
07-01-2010, 09:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">JOB LOSSES WERE PREDICTED TO CONTINUE DUE TO THE BUSH RECESSION, ALMOST A DEPRESSION, FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND MAKE A VERY SLOW RECOVERY. THE JOB LOSS RATE HAS DECREASED MEASURABLY UNDER OBAMA, COMPARED TO THE LAST TWO YEARS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

!</span>

Yes, it was predicted to rise to almost 8 percent if they did not pass the spending bill. Of course, this was revised upward, after the fact, when it hit 10%. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

<span style="color: #FF0000">Pretty sad that you fail to account for what caused all of it, REPUBLICAN SPENDING, BORROWING, CUTTING TAXES WHILE LAUNCHING TWO WARS, AND REPUBLICANS BREAKING OF ALL PREVIOUS EARMARK RECORDS, AS BUSH BROKE ALL BORROWING RECORDS.

Of course, someone has set new all time spending records now, have they not? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Republicans drove the train off the track. It ALL happened under Bush's watch, and under A BLANC CHECK REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

G.</span> </div></div>

If ony this were true. Despite the repeated, repeated and re-repeated mantra, the public is not buying it. Even the spending whores of the Bush years pale in comparison to today's spending. Remember, Europe, the most socialized group of countries in the world are saying, "Wait a minute here, Mr. Obama! Your spending plans are frightening to US, the Kings of Social Welfare!" Even your old pal Hillary is saying we are out of control with spending. When that woman is not for a spending spree, everyone is about to wake up. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

As some rationality returns to the political and economic discussions, you'll see the light, as soon as the majority of Democrats "get it" and they are gradually doing so.

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 10:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000">JOB LOSSES WERE PREDICTED TO CONTINUE DUE TO THE BUSH RECESSION, ALMOST A DEPRESSION, FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND MAKE A VERY SLOW RECOVERY. THE JOB LOSS RATE HAS DECREASED MEASURABLY UNDER OBAMA, COMPARED TO THE LAST TWO YEARS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

!</span>

Yes, it was predicted to rise to almost 8 percent if they did not pass the spending bill. Of course, this was revised upward, after the fact, when it hit 10%. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

<span style="color: #FF0000">Pretty sad that you fail to account for what caused all of it, REPUBLICAN SPENDING, BORROWING, CUTTING TAXES WHILE LAUNCHING TWO WARS, AND REPUBLICANS BREAKING OF ALL PREVIOUS EARMARK RECORDS, AS BUSH BROKE ALL BORROWING RECORDS.

Of course, someone has set new all time spending records now, have they not? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Republicans drove the train off the track. It ALL happened under Bush's watch, and under A BLANC CHECK REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

G.</span> [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If ony this were true. Despite the repeated, repeated and re-repeated mantra, the public is not buying it. Even the spending whores of the Bush years pale in comparison to today's spending. Remember, Europe, the most socialized group of countries in the world are saying, "Wait a minute here, Mr. Obama! Your spending plans are frightening to US, the Kings of Social Welfare!" Even your old pal Hillary is saying we are out of control with spending. When that woman is not for a spending spree, everyone is about to wake up. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

As some rationality returns to the political and economic discussions, you'll see the light, as soon as the majority of Democrats "get it" and they are gradually doing so. </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000">Hillary???? Can't you ever try to make a point without dragging Hillary into the discussion?

Rationality means not launching two expensive wars, and cutting taxes, at the same time.

Rationality means not breaking all revious earmark records, while prosecuting two expensive wars, cutting taxes, and borrowing jmoney to pay for all of it.

Rationality means not sending our kids to fight wars, for tghe benefit for oil cronies.

Rationality means not expecting to get out of the deepest recession in decades, in under a year and a half.

Retionality mean addressing the financial issues of average Americans, with a Health Care effort, in order to divert the growing costs of SS and Medicare.

Rationality means moving the econoomy away from dependence on foreign oil, and toward clean, renewable fuels, when it is obvious, and has been obvious, for decades, that the world is running out of oil.

Rationality is not removing solar panels from the Whtie House, when it is obvious that the future will belong to the nation which moves forward, fastest, in technological advances for clean ennergy.

Rationality means understanding that unemplloyment benefits improve the ecoonomy.

Rationality means understanding that the huge financial disastger, aka Bush's Depression, cannot be diverted without investing in the future, with jobs in the manufacturing industry, an American Car industry, American made products for energy independence which cannot be outsourced, and implementing fiscal responsibility when the crises is over.

Rationality means not believing the same lies, from the same party, with the same tax and spend policies, over and over, when they have just driven the economy off the end of a cliff.

Rationality means understanding that no nation exits a deep recession, without investing in policies which create jobs.

Rationality means understanding that in a deep recession, where job losses were predicted to revcover slowly, over a period of years, that a year and a half, is not enough time for great gains in that job recovery.

Rationality means accepting that launching wars, and cutting taxes, and borrowing to pay for all of it, while breaking earmark records, led to this financial disaster., and greatly hampered our ability to address it without risk.

Rationality means admitting that a job saved, is as good as a job made, when the economy is on the brink.

Rationality means understanding that Laissez Faire Economic policies, accompanied by an Administration which sends out the message of laxed oversight, and unjustifiably low interest rates, leads to corruption and fraud in the fianacial industry, and lends to the creation of a Real Estate Bubble which cann bring down the entire economoy, on a global level..

Rationality means that reasonable people understand that no president wants to project doom and gloom in the midst of attempts to turn around a dangerous economic prediction, such as the worst depression in history, and will tend to promote hopeful predictions for job recovery, and that that is NOT the same thing as a rehersed lie, based on cherry picked intelligencre, for a hidden agenda, to waste blood and treasure on lies, for business co-hearts in the oil industry, by launching war against a COUNTRY WHICH NEVER ATTACKED THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Rationality means understanding that sacrifices have to be made, in order to turn around the disastrous economoy which Bush left in his wake, and admitting that some tings are improving, and that the President is doing a good job, overall, in a set if extremely difficult circimstances.

Rationality means accepting responsibility for one's own results.

Rationality means not blaming Clinton for Bush's failures, and not blaming Obama for Bush's failures.

9/11, Iraq, the grwoing of the Real Estate Bubble, the prdatory lending, the crash, the unprecedented borrowing, the unprecedented spending, resulting huge deficits, all happened on Bush's watch, and all of it with advance warnings, which he completely ignored.

Rationality means understanding that NO PRESIDENT&lt; could have turned all of this around in less than two years, and that NO PRESIDENT could turn it around, without spending.

G.</span>

Chopstick
07-01-2010, 11:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Obama is getting ready to tax the crap out of the middle and low income wage earners.

<span style="color: #FF0000">MORE LIES. </span>

</div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">No, it isn't. Effective today 20% of all my trading profits will be taken right off the top and I still have to pay income taxes on them as if I received them. That is nothing compared to the telephone pole suppository that is on the way in the financial reform initiative. If they get away with the financial transaction tax, how long do you think it will be before they apply it to all transactions?

Trading shops all over the country are closing up this week. Obama will not be satisfied until he puts us all out of business.</span>

eg8r
07-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Trying to get gayle view anything other than her butthole is like talking to a brick wall. She only sees and reads what she wants to read and if she does stumble upon something else she will twist it to say what she wanted it to say.

LOL, after reading the joke about the wedding ring, she recognized the truth in it and how bad she has been lately and wore her husband out over the weekend. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

pooltchr
07-01-2010, 12:08 PM
Chop...Today starts the new 10% tax on white people. After all, who else needs to go to a tanning booth??

I'm sure glad Obama is only raising taxes on the richest Americans!!!!!!!!

Steve

Deeman3
07-01-2010, 01:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD [color:#FF0000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hillary???? Can't you ever try to make a point without dragging Hillary into the discussion?


It was her that said this. Why do you get upset over Hillary being brought up? Many of us look fondly back on her now as a candidate and many think she would have been a much saner choice than Obama. Are we not allowed?

It was now, world famous dishonesty that made us not like her in the first place but at least she would have bene pragmatic enough to not push us further off the deep end.

The attached rant is impressive, if it were all true and only applicable to the Bush administration. Your support of all things Obama would be admirable if he had really countered all the things you charge of Bush here. He has not, beyond spending a lot of money we don't have which all of us, despite your claims to the opposite, din't like in Bush's terms as well.

Many of us havce given Obama credit for some actions he has taken and even sided with him in many decisions, something you have never, to my knowledge done in Bush's case.

You can have your "everything Bush ever did was bad, everything Obama ever did was great" attitude but that is really what is not rational.

Even where we disagree on health care, if Obama had shown leadeship instead of turning loose a Congress well equiped for spending but absolutely incapable of putting forward a simple bill to fix the main problems with health care in this country, we might have had a health care plan that we could all be proud of instead of a complex set of confusing documents that establish new agencies just to figure out what it means and says. If you think Obama or any in the Democratic power structure leveled with the Amewrican taxpayer on it's true costs and the added burdens placed on low and middle income taxpayers while protecting those who contributed the most to their campaigns, maybe you are not as close a Washington insiders you claim to be, or in a much worse case too close to have come to believe that reality.

Noone has ever asked Obama to turn the economy around without spending money! Some of us are just asking that he do so with good judgement and a leveling with the American people, not more lies about non-existent created jobs all while smothering the private sector with new taxes, new regulations and at the same time, spilling a fantasy about not raising taxes on the poor and middle classes.

Of course, you don't believe any of this. I know. As long as you can reach back and say Bush did it all, you will have comfort. But to blindly follow Obama as you claimed all of us did, just because you voted for him is not rational, at least to me. Unlike you, I do consider I could be wrong on occasion. Tell me, how can you be right on every single issue. How was Bush so effective for one you called an unread Chimp, to have masterminded all this mess so that even a row of Harvard grads are not able to counter it now? Should they call Bush for help? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

</div></div>

eg8r
07-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Yes, that is always your response for your poor decisions. Blame someone else.

eg8r

Qtec
07-01-2010, 03:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks to Obama we have added 3 million people to that soup line. Pretty sad that you support that type of horrendous change.

eg8r </div></div>

Is Obama responsible for paying for the Bush tax cuts for the rich that are responsible for the greater part of the rising deficit?
The Iraq war that would pay for itself?
The Credit Crisis/Bank bailout?

Bush was warned about 9/11 and did nothing.
He was warned about the impending disaster in the housing market.......he did nothing.
He handed Obama a country on the brink of financial disaster, end of story.

Q

eg8r
07-01-2010, 03:28 PM
He is responsible for the unemployment above 8%. Those are the people he sent to the soup line.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bush was warned about 9/11 and did nothing.</div></div>Just like Obama knew about the problems with the oil wells and did nothing about them.

Obama will hand off this country in financial disaster far beyond the "brink".

eg8r

Stretch
07-01-2010, 04:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks to Obama we have added 3 million people to that soup line. Pretty sad that you support that type of horrendous change.

eg8r </div></div>

Is Obama responsible for paying for the Bush tax cuts for the rich that are responsible for the greater part of the rising deficit?
The Iraq war that would pay for itself?
The Credit Crisis/Bank bailout?

Bush was warned about 9/11 and did nothing.
He was warned about the impending disaster in the housing market.......he did nothing.
He handed Obama a country on the brink of financial disaster, end of story.

Q </div></div>

Here's a novel idea. Why not just increase the tax on the Corperations, contractors, and War profiteers? After all, it was the Publics money that the government graciously laveshed on the billion dollar cantracts they all reiceved to ratchet up the war effort. I'm talking about Halliburton, Bechtell, Northrop Grumman, and other Silcon Valley high tech War games Wiz kids. They get all these billion dollar handouts of taxpayers money so i think they should shoulder a bigger part of the tax load as a condition. Furthermore all this tax money should be directly funneled into the infrastructure, roads, water treatment, schools, police forces and hospitals which have all been desperately underfunded and in Crisis mode for a generation now. St.

pooltchr
07-01-2010, 05:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's a novel idea. Why not just increase the tax on the Corperations, St. </div></div>

Here's a news flash for you
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Corporations do not pay taxes!</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Taxes are only collected from individuals.</span>
If the government pretends to tax a corporation, what happens? The bill reduces the profits of the corporation. Now, who does that affect? Individuals! Individuals who hold shares in the company pay in reduced income from stock.
Now, if the corporation takes steps to prevent that from happening, they must offset that lost revenue in another way. And the only way they can do that is to increase the price of their product or service, which means consumers (individuals) will end up paying that tax through higher prices.

This is a huge myth that politicians love to use to increase their income. When they say they are going to tax businesses, individuals don't see any problem with that. So taxes on businesses are more acceptable to people who don't bother to think through to the bottom line.

Suppose you own a business. After expenses, including taxes, you actually operate at a 4% profit margin (that is where the big oil companies operate). Now, Obama comes along and says he is going to raise your taxes by 10%. That increase reduces your profit margin from 4% down to zero. You no longer make any profit at all. What do you do, other than raise your prices to cover the tax increase?

If more people understood this, politicians couldn't continue to get away with the hoax of "corporate" taxes.

Just another reason we should do away with the IRS and all income taxes, and just have the fair tax. A tax on what we consume is the only way we can have everyone paying their fair share.

Steve

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Qtec] <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks to Obama we have added 3 million people to that soup line. Pretty sad that you support that type of horrendous change.

eg8r </div></div>

Is Obama responsible for paying for the Bush tax cuts for the rich that are responsible for the greater part of the rising deficit?
The Iraq war that would pay for itself?
The Credit Crisis/Bank bailout?

Bush was warned about 9/11 and did nothing.
He was warned about the impending disaster in the housing market.......he did nothing.
He handed Obama a country on the brink of financial disaster, end of story.

Q </div></div>

Here's a novel idea. Why not just increase the tax on the Corperations, contractors, and War profiteers? After all, it was the Publics money that the government graciously laveshed on the billion dollar cantracts they all reiceved to ratchet up the war effort. I'm talking about Halliburton, Bechtell, Northrop Grumman, and other Silcon Valley high tech War games Wiz kids. They get all these billion dollar handouts of taxpayers money so i think they should shoulder a bigger part of the tax load as a condition. Furthermore all this tax money should be directly funneled into the infrastructure, roads, water treatment, schools, police forces and hospitals which have all been desperately underfunded and in crisis mode for a generation now. St.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Excellent post, Stretch. Righties can't be reasoned with, as you can easily see.


I posted information here several times from government documentation, which proved that two thirds of corporations pay no taxes!

Additionally, all of the people in this country who buy their own health care insurance, both small business owners, and all others who buy their own, pay taxes on the money they earned which pays for their health care.

Why should those who get health care insurance for free from their employers, not pay any taxes on the dollar value of that "Gift" while all the rest of us pay taxes on those dollars?

What we have here are a group of "workers" who apparently have all the time in the world, during work hours, to lollygag around on the net, trying to rewrite history, and escape the proof of their own failed assumptions about how we got into the mess we're in, this, after attacking all those who saw it coming within months of Bush's illegal appointment to the presidency.

Additonally, they deny that we finally have a president who isn't going to follow the Republican tradition of "Talk" only, about solving our pressing issues.

Obama is DOING something about the problems we are facing, instead of just promising to do something, and then just doing the politically advantageous pass the buck to the next pres.

Now, just look at the disgusting, repulsive Republicans, blocking even the same damn things tey voted for under Bush, in 06!

Twentyy six, or twenty eight of them voted for Bush's immigration reforms, eleven of which are still in there, and all of them will vote against it under this administration, regardless of how much it is similar to former Republican elements in gthe other bill.

McCain has flip flopped on his own former position.

All of the governors who are yapping about tightening the borders, right now, are Republicans.

Those who will be against it, are protecting corporations, who want that cheap labor, and threatened workers, who are easily oppressed by them.

That troll idiot down south, Jindel, has been whining his ass off, bleming Obama, while all the while he is owned by the oil industry.

Sure, plenty of foreing countries have equipment, but do these idiots on the right think they were going to go down ther for free, and work for nothing&gt;

Too bad, Bush didn't leave anything in the till, to pay for any emergencies. He wiped this country dry of money, and now, we have to put up with these baby boomers, who have always want their cake and eat it too, whiole they whine about the financial mess we're in, which THEY VOTED FOR TWICE!

President Obama is doing a fabulous job, under impossible circumstances, trying to deal with a party of lying, lazy republican crooks, who would prefer to see the country go down the tubes, than lose more elections.

I think the public is beginning to understand now, after seeing Republicans call them stray dogs, and lazy free loaders, and seeing that Republicans all voted against extending unemployment for the poor, haggard American workers in this country, those without the cushy jobs, with all the free health care, and without loads of idole time to waste on the internet, all day long, while bilking their employers of the wages they pay them, and then, watching these Republican governors, all bashing Obama, and defending BP!!! I believe even Faux Noise, won't be able to brain wash all of them this time....just the really stupid ones, who haven't learned a damned thing from watching their own party destroy the country.</span>
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Gayle in MD
07-01-2010, 07:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Obama is getting ready to tax the crap out of the middle and low income wage earners.

<span style="color: #FF0000">MORE LIES. </span>

</div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">No, it isn't. Effective today 20% of all my trading profits will be taken right off the top and I still have to pay income taxes on them as if I received them. That is nothing compared to the telephone pole suppository that is on the way in the financial reform initiative. If they get away with the financial transaction tax, how long do you think it will be before they apply it to all transactions?

Trading shops all over the country are closing up this week. Obama will not be satisfied until he puts us all out of business.</span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF6666">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.

Forgive me, if I cannot muster any sympathy for stock traders.... Trading shops closing up all over? GOOD! Most of them are thieves. Let them find another way to make money other than bilking the public. What do they produce? NOTHING!</span>

pooltchr
07-01-2010, 08:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[

I posted information here several times from government documentation, which proved that two thirds of corporations pay no taxes!

<span style="color: #FF0000">Actually, as I have pointed out previously, corporations do not pay taxes. A corporation is nothing more that a contract among a group of individuals. Individuals pay taxes...corporations do not!</span>


Twentyy six, or twenty eight of them voted for Bush's immigration reforms, eleven of which are still in there, and all of them will vote against it under this administration, regardless of how much it is similar to former Republican elements in gthe other bill.

<span style="color: #CC0000">So has your position on illegal aliens changed again. Let me guess...Republicans want the boarders tightened up, so you don't. And Obama wants to give amnesty to all the illegals who are here, so now you think it's a good idea, even after complaining about RR for so many years?

Is that about right? </span>


</div></div>

Steve

Stretch
07-01-2010, 10:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's a novel idea. Why not just increase the tax on the Corperations, St. </div></div>

Here's a news flash for you
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Corporations do not pay taxes!</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Taxes are only collected from individuals.</span>
If the government pretends to tax a corporation, what happens? The bill reduces the profits of the corporation. Now, who does that affect? Individuals! Individuals who hold shares in the company pay in reduced income from stock.
Now, if the corporation takes steps to prevent that from happening, they must offset that lost revenue in another way. And the only way they can do that is to increase the price of their product or service, which means consumers (individuals) will end up paying that tax through higher prices.

This is a huge myth that politicians love to use to increase their income. When they say they are going to tax businesses, individuals don't see any problem with that. So taxes on businesses are more acceptable to people who don't bother to think through to the bottom line.

Suppose you own a business. After expenses, including taxes, you actually operate at a 4% profit margin (that is where the big oil companies operate). Now, Obama comes along and says he is going to raise your taxes by 10%. That increase reduces your profit margin from 4% down to zero. You no longer make any profit at all. What do you do, other than raise your prices to cover the tax increase?

If more people understood this, politicians couldn't continue to get away with the hoax of "corporate" taxes.

Just another reason we should do away with the IRS and all income taxes, and just have the fair tax. A tax on what we consume is the only way we can have everyone paying their fair share.

Steve </div></div>

OK, well here's a news flash back. The reality (that you conveniently overlook) is that there are two sets of rules--one for the Corperate class, and one for the middle class. The middle class by and large plays by the rules then watches as it's jobs disappear and the Senate takes a break instead of extending unemployment benefits. The Corperate class games the system makeing sure it's license to break the rules is built into the rules themselves.

One of the most glaring examples of this continues to be the ability of Corporations to cheat the public out of 10's of billions of dollars a year by useing offshore tax havens. Indeed it's estimated that Corporations and wealthy individuals funneling money through offshore tax havens are evading around ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! And with cash strapped states right across the country, it's not like you don't need the money right?

In Dec. 2008 the Government Accounting Office reported that 83 of the 100 largest publicly traded companies in the country including AT@T, Chevron,IBM, American Express,GE, Boeing,Dow, and AIG had subsidairies in Tax Havens.

Americas big banks, including those that just pocketed billions in tax payers bailout dollars seems particularly fond of the Caymon Islands. At the time of the GAO report Morgan Stanley had 273 subsidairies in tax havens with 90 in the Caymons. Bank of America had 115, with 57 in the Caymons. Goldman Sacks had 29 offshore Havens, including 15 in the Caymons. JP morgan had 50, with 7 in the Caymons. And Wells fargo had 18, with 7 in the Caymons.

So here's a free tax tip. Just open a PO Box in the Caymons or Bermuda like all your precious Patriotic Corporations do while still earning a living in the good ol USA. Enjoy the Freedom, technology, infrastructure, and all the other myriad benefits of the land of the free and the home of the brave. Just change your buisness address. Because if you do that, you won't have to pay for all those benefits--You'll get them for free! St.

wolfdancer
07-02-2010, 01:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Corporations do not pay taxes!

Taxes are only collected from individuals. </div></div>
Idiotic reply, no make that..... moronic reply...
"The taxes are passed on to individuals in the form of price increases."
Well, that's about as stupid as saying that Automobile Companies don't pay anything for steel, or tires,.... in fact they build the cars for free!!!......because....because...
the costs are passed on to the customer....bubba logic!!!

pooltchr
07-02-2010, 06:15 AM
Stretch. You make a good point. But in addition to your suggestion, there is nothing to stop ANYONE from incorporating, and having the same tax benefits as the large corporations.

You can do it online for next to nothing. There are some rules you must abide by (government regulation, ya know!), and it takes some effort, but it can be done.
"Stretch, INC" has the same opportunities to protect their income as Microsoft, INC does.

Who controls the tax code? It is your elected representatives in Washington. When you do your individual income taxes, you take deductions for mortgage interest, earned income credit, medical expenses, etc. in order to lower the amount of tax you pay. In other words, you take advantage of the tax laws as they apply to you.
Corporations do the same thing. They just have more options. If you would like to have those same options, do the same thing they do. Incorporate yourself!

You know, if every individual or family in the country did this, imagine how much everyone could save. But even more importantly, imagine how quickly Washington would act to clean up the mess they have made with the IRS!

You can't fault corporations for taking the deductions and working within the tax laws as they are written. Your outrage should be directed toward those who allow it to happen. Blame Washington, not the corporations.

Steve


(Woofie....Bite me!)

Gayle in MD
07-02-2010, 06:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's a novel idea. Why not just increase the tax on the Corperations, St. </div></div>

Here's a news flash for you
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Corporations do not pay taxes!</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Taxes are only collected from individuals.</span>
If the government pretends to tax a corporation, what happens? The bill reduces the profits of the corporation. Now, who does that affect? Individuals! Individuals who hold shares in the company pay in reduced income from stock.
Now, if the corporation takes steps to prevent that from happening, they must offset that lost revenue in another way. And the only way they can do that is to increase the price of their product or service, which means consumers (individuals) will end up paying that tax through higher prices.

This is a huge myth that politicians love to use to increase their income. When they say they are going to tax businesses, individuals don't see any problem with that. So taxes on businesses are more acceptable to people who don't bother to think through to the bottom line.

Suppose you own a business. After expenses, including taxes, you actually operate at a 4% profit margin (that is where the big oil companies operate). Now, Obama comes along and says he is going to raise your taxes by 10%. That increase reduces your profit margin from 4% down to zero. You no longer make any profit at all. What do you do, other than raise your prices to cover the tax increase?

If more people understood this, politicians couldn't continue to get away with the hoax of "corporate" taxes.

Just another reason we should do away with the IRS and all income taxes, and just have the fair tax. A tax on what we consume is the only way we can have everyone paying their fair share.

Steve </div></div>

OK, well here's a news flash back. The reality (that you conveniently overlook) is that there are two sets of rules--one for the Corperate class, and one for the middle class. The middle class by and large plays by the rules then watches as it's jobs disappear and the Senate takes a break instead of extending unemployment benefits. The Corperate class games the system makeing sure it's license to break the rules is built into the rules themselves.

One of the most glaring examples of this continues to be the ability of Corporations to cheat the public out of 10's of billions of dollars a year by useing offshore tax havens. Indeed it's estimated that Corporations and wealthy individuals funneling money through offshore tax havens are evading around ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! And with cash strapped states right across the country, it's not like you don't need the money right?

In Dec. 2008 the Government Accounting Office reported that 83 of the 100 largest publicly traded companies in the country including AT@T, Chevron,IBM, American Express,GE, Boeing,Dow, and AIG had subsidairies in Tax Havens.

Americas big banks, including those that just pocketed billions in tax payers bailout dollars seems particularly fond of the Caymon Islands. At the time of the GAO report Morgan Stanley had 273 subsidairies in tax havens with 90 in the Caymons. Bank of America had 115, with 57 in the Caymons. Goldman Sacks had 29 offshore Havens, including 15 in the Caymons. JP morgan had 50, with 7 in the Caymons. And Wells fargo had 18, with 7 in the Caymons.

So here's a free tax tip. Just open a PO Box in the Caymons or Bermuda like all your precious Patriotic Corporations do while still earning a living in the good ol USA. Enjoy the Freedom, technology, infrastructure, and all the other myriad benefits of the land of the free and the home of the brave. Just change your buisness address. Because if you do that, you won't have to pay for all those benefits--You'll get them for free! St. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Believe me, you can't explain anything to that mann about economics. He's the one who claimed that debts didn't matter, while Bush was running them up, then gturned on his heels and criticized President Obama for doing exactly what the vast majority of countries, AND economists all agreed had to be done, spend money too divert Bush's depression.

The right buys into the trickle down theory, that's how bright they are.... </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

<span style="color: #FF0000">President Obama is the first president I can think of who has cracked down on tax havens. Estimates a few yeaars ago were in the neighborhood of twelve TRILLION dollars, hidden in offshore havens.

Your appraisals of the fascist corporate pigs in this country is right on target! They ARE the fascist unAmerican pigs who destroyed this country, the path clearly lit for them by Reagan, Bush annd Bush.

Republicans are the pawns of the same corporate crooks who robed all of us, and righties are too stupid to see it.</span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

<span style="color: #FF0000">Then, they presume they can "teach" the rest of us about economics, after they approved of Bush's spending and borrowing, launching wars, while cutting taxes, lying through his teeth all the way, while running this country into a debt pit, without a single post of outrage over it!

Anybody who writes "Debts don't matter" isn't exactly an authority on econoomics!

G.</span>

Gayle in MD
07-02-2010, 06:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Corporations do not pay taxes!

Taxes are only collected from individuals. </div></div>
Idiotic reply, no make that..... moronic reply...
"The taxes are passed on to individuals in the form of price increases."
Well, that's about as stupid as saying that Automobile Companies don't pay anything for steel, or tires,.... in fact they build the cars for free!!!......because....because...
the costs are passed on to the customer....bubba logic!!!

</div></div>


Par for the course with this guy. "Debts don't matter" not when Republicans are running them up, they don''t!

This site is full of Bubba logic! The vote Republican, so their satisfied with a "Trickle" while they're being robbed by theire beoved corporate thieves!

The corporatization of this country is exactly why we're in this mess, and they're too stupid to get it.

G.

pooltchr
07-02-2010, 06:55 AM
I guess that's why the economy is doing so much better since Obama decided to spend trillions of dollars on pork.

How can anyone who claims to be so well read and educated be so ignorant?

Steve

Deeman3
07-02-2010, 08:12 AM
[quote=Stretch Furthermore all this tax money should be directly funneled into the infrastructure, roads, water treatment, schools, police forces and hospitals which have all been desperately underfunded and in Crisis mode for a generation now. St. [/quote]

<span style="color: #FF0000">Stretch,

We already tried that with the bailout; you know, the one where it was supposed to help stir the economy and only 4% ended up being spent on infrstructure!

It really does not matter how much you tax the business end of it as they just pass it back through in the contract prices to the American people.

As long as we have free spenders, from both parties, in charge we are all mostly screwed.

Maybe we can all work for the Post Office or the DMV in the future. I do suspect, rather than hearing about increasing the real tax burden on the wealthy, soon we will be selecting to cut social security and other entitlements just so we can keep the breaucrats. We will choose to add 20,000,000 new Mexican citizens over the care of our own people. Those new citizens near retirement age will sign up and gratiously accept social benefits while the young stay off the system until the last of their taxable years.

Now that the border is secure, a Democrat just told us all that, we can ignore AZ's "terrible" new law and really start some creative spending. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

After all, they are a new source of a precious resource, voters.</span>

LWW
07-02-2010, 08:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF6666">I posted information here several times from government documentation, which proved that two thirds of corporations pay no taxes!</span>
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif</div></div>

You are so close to an epiphany dear.

Here's the reality ... three thirds of corporations pay no taxes. Not a cent.

What they have been forced to do ... with the bayonet of the state at their back ... is become tax collectors.

Truth is that corporations pay no taxes, no license fees, no rent, no utilities, and no employees.

What they do is provide a good or service at a price which covers all expenses plus a profit. IOW ... the customer pays for all of the corporations expenses so long as the company is profitable. If it is unprofitable long enough, it dies ... and the the expenses are simply shifted back to the entity which provided it as an expense to them and their customers pay for it.

The fact that leftists in general have such a miserable understanding of such basic economic principles explains why they walk around believing that a world where milk and honey flow from faucets for free and we all could ride unicorns if we could just eliminate the capitalist system which allows them to walk around with a head full of such nonsense and not starve to death.

Please ... buy a book, and then read it.

LWW

Gayle in MD
07-02-2010, 11:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

After all, they are a new source of a precious resource, voters.</span>

The illegal population grew tremendously after Ronald Reagan gave them allAmnesty.

He, and other Republicans since, have ignored all of the problems that grew from that pisspoor decision, which was made in the interests of cheap labor, for corporations.

No Republican will vote for a solution to this problem. They are pawns of the wealthy, hence, the chasm between the well off and the Middle Class grows under Republican control.

The Amnesty created huge problems for our country, and while Bush would torture, spy, launch idiotic un-necessary wars, all under the guise of National Security, he completely ignored all of the illegals flodding across the borders for most of his administration....

They are here to provide corporate exploitation of cheap labor, which is exactly why Reagan gave them amnesty decades ago, inviting more of them to come....

Here again, as always, Republican policies created a nightmare.

The list of current problems in America and around the world which result from Republican policies, from propping up evil dictators, to launching wars on lies, to arming radical drug dealers, for hidden agendas, is very evident.

Corporations show no patriotism, and no accountability, and Republicans protect them to the end, just as they have bashed this president for holding BP to account, they bash him for closing down the drilling that is going on, by oil and drilling companies which have lied about their ability to handle such a disaster, and REpublicans are defending them.

IMO, this is one of the most telling pictures of F-ed up Republlican policies which sell out the environment, for the benefit of their contributors.

There is just too much documentation out there to refuse to see it, from chopping off mountain tops to higher arsenic levels in our drinking water.

As you watch the oil flowig into the GULF, recall your oft used lable for those of us who care about the planet...

A Tree Hugger...

G.

pooltchr
07-02-2010, 11:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
The illegal population grew tremendously after Ronald Reagan gave them allAmnesty.



The Amnesty created huge problems for our country,
G.


</div></div>

And, now that Obama wants to grant amnesty to the illegals who are here, is that ok with you????????????????


Steve

Gayle in MD
07-04-2010, 05:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is responsible for the unemployment above 8%. Those are the people he sent to the soup line.

<span style="color: #FF6666">No they are not! Those are the people who lost everything becaused of Bush's and Greenspan's decision to let the dangerous financial ponzi scheme on Wall Street, continue as it grew into critical proportions.

We were in a recession for a whole year before Bush admitted to it.

The unemployment could very well have been up around 30% by now, according to most economists. AND STOP LYING ABOUT THE SO CALLED PROMISE OF ONLY 8% UNEMPLOYMENT IF WE DID THE STIMULUS!!!!

BOTH YOU AND OTHER RIGHTIES HERE HAVE SAID THAT AND IT IS A LIE. President Obama NEVER promised that.</span>
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ama-promised-s/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/09/eric-cantor/Cantor-and-other-republicans-say-obama-promised-s/)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Truth-O-Meter Says:

"We were promised. The president said we would keep unemployment under 8.5 percent (if the stimulus passed)."
Eric Cantor on Wednesday, July 8th, 2009 in a PBS interview.


Cantor and other Republicans say Obama promised stimulus would keep unemployment rates below 8 percent
Bookmark this story:
Buzz up!ShareThisWith unemployment rates continuing to rise nearly five months after the economic stimulus plan was passed, House Republican Whip Eric Cantor said the Obama-backed plan is a bust.

"Clearly the stimulus or so-called stimulus plan that spent almost $800 billion dollars has not worked," Cantor said in a PBS interview on July 8, 2009. "We were promised, the president said we would keep unemployment under 8.5 percent. We're now over 9.5 percent, on our way to 10 percent."

The claim that the Obama administration "promised" the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent is a popular talking point among Republican critics of the stimulus.

We've heard it from House Republican Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, Reps. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and Lynn Westmoreland, R-Ga., as well as conservative talk show host Sean Hannity, to name a few. They all called it a "promise."

They are referring to a Jan. 9, 2009, report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" from Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, the vice president's top economic adviser.

Their report projected that the stimulus plan proposed by Obama would create between three and four million jobs by the end of 2010. The report also includes a graphic predicting unemployment rates with and without the stimulus. Without the stimulus (the baseline), unemployment was projected to hit about 8.5 percent in 2009 and then continue rising to a peak of about 9 percent in 2010. With the stimulus, they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at just under 8 percent in 2009.

But in June, the unemployment rate was 9.5 percent.

In the past week, the administration has acknowledged its projections were wrong.

Here's what Romer herself said in a July 2 interview on Fox: "None of us had a crystal ball back in December and January. I think almost every private forecaster realized that there were other things going on in the economy. It was worse than we anticipated. What the private forecasters are saying now is that they do anticipate that the economy will start growing again in the second half of the year, and that usually, then, employment and unemployment start to respond shortly after that. So I think that is a realistic expectation."

Biden also acknowledged the discrepancies in a July 5 interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos.

"The truth is, we and everyone else misread the economy," Biden said. "The figures we worked off of in January were the consensus figures in most of the blue chip indexes out there. ... And so the truth is, there was a misreading of just how bad an economy we inherited. Now, that doesn't — I'm not laying — it's now our responsibility. So the second question becomes, did the economic package we put in place, including the Recovery Act, is it the right package given the circumstances we're in? And we believe it is the right package given the circumstances we're in."

Stephanopoulos correctly noted that projections from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office at the time were slightly less optimistic than the administration's. In January, the CBO projected the unemployment rate would climb to 8.3 percent in 2009 and peak at 9 percent in 2010. By February, the prediction was even higher — 9 percent in 2009 without the stimulus, and 7.7 to 8.5 percent with a stimulus.

In a White House news conference on June 8, 2009, Bernstein, the co-author of the February projections, said they were off because the fourth-quarter economic numbers weren't available at the time. When they were released a short time later, they revealed the economy was in more dire shape than economists realized.

Bernstein maintained in that June news conference that the stimulus is working, and that without it, the unemployment rate would be even worse.

The debate about the numbers comes from the inherent uncertainty in economic forecasting. How can you ever prove that if the unemployment rate gets to X percent, it would or would not have gotten a point or two higher if not for the stimulus? The same holds true for Republicans who say the rising unemployment rates prove the stimulus isn't working. Again, it's difficult to empirically prove whether they're right or wrong.

We're certainly not going to try here. What we can rule on, however, is whether the Obama administration "promised" that unemployment rates would not rise above 8 percent if the stimulus were passed. We could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge.

What we saw from the administration in January was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."

There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."

That sure doesn't sound like a full-fledged promise to us.</span><span style='font-size: 20pt'>We think it's a big stretch to call an economic projection a "promise." The administration never characterized it that way and included plenty of disclaimers saying the predictions had "significant margins of error" and a higher degree of uncertainty due to a recession that is "unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity." And so we rule the statement by Cantor — and other Republicans who have said the same thing — Barely True.</span>
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bush was warned about 9/11 and did nothing.</div></div>Just like Obama knew about the problems with the oil wells and did nothing about them.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> <span style='font-size: 17pt'>That's another lie!!! None of us knew the extent to which the Oil Industry lied about it's capacity to handle the dangers of deep water accidents.

NO ONE KNEW IN ADVANCE EXCEPT THE REGULATORS WHO HAD NOT YET BEEN REPLACED, FROM THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, DICK CHENEY AND BP!

Those agencies were under investigation at the time BP's well exploded. The process was under way

Obama inherited all of this, and all of it turned out to be much worse than most people originally thought.

Bush's recession was far deeper than anyone thought. His own deficits are still the bulk of our growing deficit. We lost over six trillion dollars because of his tax cuts that went to the same pigs who brought the econoomy down, the wealthy corporate pigs.

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>Obama did not promise that his stimulus plan would hold unemployment at 8%, AND he is not saying that he intends to offer AMNESTY.</span>

You righties tell so many lies no one can keep up with all of them.</span> </span>



Obama will hand off this country in financial disaster far beyond the "brink".

eg8r </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> <span style='font-size: 17pt'>THAT IS EXACTYLY WHAT WE TOLD YOU WOULD HAPPEN BY THE TIME WE GOT RID OF BUSH.

WE WERE RIGHT! YOU defended him. YOU were wrong!

We have the proof that Bush destroyed this country with Republican policies of warring, borrowing, cutting taxes, failing to appoint honest, competent directors to lead our regulatory agencies, failure to heed warnings of disasters, Holding secret meetings with the oil industry, behind closed doors,m growing the federal government, and lying us into an illegal war in Iraq, which he prosecuted more incompetently than any war in our history.

Obama never <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Promised </span> the stimulus would keep unemployment at 8% AND he has never stated that he wants AMNESTY!

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>STOP THE LYING!</span></span> </span>

LWW
07-04-2010, 06:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is Obama responsible for paying for the Bush tax cuts for the rich that are responsible for the greater part of the rising deficit?

Q </div></div>

Your entire premise is, of course, based upon a lie.

Unless you can demonstrate that the tax cuts reduced revenue, which of course you can't since they flooded the treasury with funds the congress squandered and it has been the demokook policies of 2007 to date which have caused revenue to recede, you are only proving that you are a willing tool of the party who will believe whatever you are told to believe.

But, we all already knew that.

LWW

pooltchr
07-04-2010, 08:26 PM
While he doesn't call it "amnesty", that is exactly what "a path to citizenship for illegals" is.

It's a reward for people who are here illegally.

There should NEVER be an opportunity for someone to become a citizen of this country when they broke our law just by being here!

My goodness, how you have turned around on that one!!!!!!!!!!


Steve

Qtec
07-04-2010, 08:32 PM
News to me, any links? Proof?

Q

Gayle in MD
07-05-2010, 01:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While he doesn't call it "amnesty", that is exactly what "a path to citizenship for illegals" is.

It's a reward for people who are here illegally.

There should NEVER be an opportunity for someone to become a citizen of this country when they broke our law just by being here!

My goodness, how you have turned around on that one!!!!!!!!!!


Steve </div></div>

Are you unable to look up a definition? Only RR offered Amnesty. Have you ever complained about Reagan's policy, or admitted that it invited more illegal occupation? NO YOU HAVE NOT! Who is turning around? YOU!





YOU ARE WRONG.

am·nes·ty   /ˈæmnəsti/ Show Spelled [am-nuh-stee] Show IPA noun, plural -ties, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
–noun
1. a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction.
2. Law . an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole.
3. a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.
–verb (used with object)
4. to grant amnesty to; pardon.
Use amnesty in a Sentence
See images of amnesty
Search amnesty on the Web

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1570–80; (&lt; MF amnestie ) &lt; Gk amnēstía oblivion, equiv. to ámnēst ( os ) forgetting ( a- a-6 + mnēs- remember + -tos verbal adj. suffix) + -ia -y3


—Synonyms
1. See pardon.


Amnesty was what Reagan offered, with no fines, and no strings attached.

That is NOT what President Obama has talked about, at all. There would be fines for breaking the law, and also they would have to learn our language, back taxes, a number of conditions.

Amnesty does not mean conditional forgiveness, with fines. Amnesty means total forgiveness, with no conditions, so stop lying! All Americans are losing because they are paying illegals under the table. And they are paying cheap wages, because they have their illegals at a disadvantage BECAUSE they are illegals.

The cheap labor costs American Citizens in the form of less tax revenues, and lower wages they must compete with. IOW, like everything else Republicans do, the playing field is not level.

Learn to use the dictionary before you accuse the President incorrectly. He is NOT offering Amnesty. ONLY a REPUBLICAN president, did that!

G.

Gayle in MD
07-05-2010, 03:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

After all, they are a new source of a precious resource, voters.</span>


The Great Taxer
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: June 8, 2004
Over the course of this week we'll be hearing a lot about Ronald Reagan, much of it false. A number of news sources have already proclaimed Mr. Reagan the most popular president of modern times. In fact, though Mr. Reagan was very popular in 1984 and 1985, he spent the latter part of his presidency under the shadow of the Iran-Contra scandal. Bill Clinton had a slightly higher average Gallup approval rating, and a much higher rating during his last two years in office.

We're also sure to hear that Mr. Reagan presided over an unmatched economic boom. Again, not true: the economy grew slightly faster under President Clinton, and, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, the after-tax income of a typical family, adjusted for inflation, rose more than twice as much from 1992 to 2000 as it did from 1980 to 1988.

But Ronald Reagan does hold a special place in the annals of tax policy, and not just as the patron saint of tax cuts. To his credit, he was more pragmatic and responsible than that; he followed his huge 1981 tax cut with two large tax increases. In fact, no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people. This is not a criticism: the tale of those increases tells you a lot about what was right with President Reagan's leadership, and what's wrong with the leadership of George W. Bush.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The first Reagan tax increase came in 1982. By then it was clear that the budget projections used to justify the 1981 tax cut were wildly optimistic. In response, Mr. Reagan agreed to a sharp rollback of corporate tax cuts, and a smaller rollback of individual income tax cuts. Over all, the 1982 tax increase undid about a third of the 1981 cut; as a share of G.D.P., the increase was substantially larger than Mr. Clinton's 1993 tax increase. </span>
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The contrast with President Bush is obvious. President Reagan, confronted with evidence that his tax cuts were fiscally irresponsible, changed course. President Bush, confronted with similar evidence, has pushed for even more tax cuts. </span>
Mr. Reagan's second tax increase was also motivated by a sense of responsibility -- or at least that's the way it seemed at the time. I'm referring to the Social Security Reform Act of 1983, which followed the recommendations of a commission led by Alan Greenspan. Its key provision was an increase in the payroll tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare hospital insurance.

For many middle- and low-income families, this tax increase more than undid any gains from Mr. Reagan's income tax cuts. In 1980, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent -- but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down.

Nonetheless, there was broad bipartisan support for the payroll tax increase because it was part of a deal. The public was told that the extra revenue would be used to build up a trust fund dedicated to the preservation of Social Security benefits, securing the system's future. Thanks to the 1983 act, current projections show that under current rules, Social Security is good for at least 38 more years.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>But George W. Bush has made it clear that he intends to renege on the deal. His officials insist that the trust fund is meaningless -- which means that they don't feel bound to honor the implied contract that dedicated the revenue generated by President Reagan's payroll tax increase to paying for future Social Security benefits. Indeed, it's clear from the arithmetic that the only way to sustain President Bush's tax cuts in the long run will be with sharp cuts in both Social Security and Medicare benefits.</span>
<span style='font-size: 20pt'>
I did not and do not approve of President Reagan's economic policies, which saddled the nation with trillions of dollars in debt. And as others will surely point out, some of the foreign policy shenanigans that took place on his watch, notably the Iran-contra scandal, foreshadowed the current debacle in Iraq (which, not coincidentally, involves some of the same actors). </span>
Still, on both foreign and domestic policy Mr. Reagan showed both some pragmatism and some sense of responsibility. These are attributes sorely lacking in the man who claims to be his political successor.



http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/opinion/the-great-taxer.html

Sid_Vicious
07-05-2010, 09:29 PM
The thing that should have really pissed off even the hardest right her(for sure if it'd been a Democrat as a lame duck) was the f#cking pronouncement by Bush two months ahead of the election that we were near a second Great Depression, hence our budget was IMMEDIATELY sucked out of billions, hardly any House or Senate discussions at all! If that wasn't a last minute money grab by Bush and the republicans in general, I don't know what one is. Imagine the flack Clinton would have incurred with an action like that? Allz he did was get a BJ in the WH. You righties really need to open up your eyes and see the real evils here. It's big money and stupid puppet presidents, i.e. GWB. He screwed everyone, except the wealthy. I have a real hard time understanding how you folks here who are in my relative, same economic class, keep the blinders on like you do. Until y'all do that...open your minds and eyes a little...this country is screwed all over again.

That event with Bush quickly shelling out the billions two months before leaving office, was a true burglary, and you don't seem to care at all about that. sid

Sid_Vicious
07-05-2010, 09:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks to Obama we have added 3 million people to that soup line. Pretty sad that you support that type of horrendous change.

eg8r </div></div>

Is Obama responsible for paying for the Bush tax cuts for the rich that are responsible for the greater part of the rising deficit?
The Iraq war that would pay for itself?
The Credit Crisis/Bank bailout?

Bush was warned about 9/11 and did nothing.
He was warned about the impending disaster in the housing market.......he did nothing.
He handed Obama a country on the brink of financial disaster, end of story.

Q </div></div>

Great post Q. Too bad we don't have a few unclosed minds on the right to listen to what you said. That truly troubles me, as it aids the demise of this country. I gave Bush my support after his election,,,well the first anyway, BUT he was so stupid and obviously just stealing from this country, he lost all respect. it's a shame he isn't in prison or hung yet for treason. Nuff said..sid

Sid_Vicious
07-05-2010, 09:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Obama is getting ready to tax the crap out of the middle and low income wage earners.

<span style="color: #FF0000">MORE LIES. </span>

</div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">No, it isn't. Effective today 20% of all my trading profits will be taken right off the top and I still have to pay income taxes on them as if I received them. That is nothing compared to the telephone pole suppository that is on the way in the financial reform initiative. If they get away with the financial transaction tax, how long do you think it will be before they apply it to all transactions?

Trading shops all over the country are closing up this week. Obama will not be satisfied until he puts us all out of business.</span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF6666">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.

Forgive me, if I cannot muster any sympathy for stock traders.... Trading shops closing up all over? GOOD! Most of them are thieves. Let them find another way to make money other than bilking the public. What do they produce? NOTHING!</span> </div></div>

In my opinion, the day traders, including the giant MM traders( actually big day traders themselves), are ruining the true valuation of stocks in this country. There needs to be federal regs in place that cause a strain on same day trades. Otherwise there will be no recovery in the stock market to make a difference at all. Day trader, today, are just about as much a problem for the stock market, as Freddie and Fannie was to the housing market when they loaned to every Jose out there. We are F'ked as long as the same day trades are left unbridled. sid

ghdfans2010
07-06-2010, 02:45 AM
I agree, many of us are "freeloaders" but as we were just forced to raise (double) our out of pocket money for drugs and medical services it is probably my employees, unlike those of us fortunate enough to be freeloaders who will bear the brunt of these tax increases as well as the increased health care costs. Most of them are middle income who were promised that their health care plans would not be impacted and more directly that their taxes, if making less than $250K would not go up.


That's a good reply!haha!

pooltchr
07-06-2010, 06:50 AM
Sid,
I think if you look back, you will see where several of us often expressed our displeasure with the fiscal policies of GWB.

I also think claiming that GW did nothing to prevent 9/11 is off the mark. There are countless groups even today that are planning attacks on our country. Even if we are able to stop 99 out of 100 of them, that one that is successful is going to be the one that gets all the attention.

As for your comment on day traders, I couldn't agree more. They have turned the stock market into a financial game board, playing it for the short term. The idea of buying stock is ideally for long term investments. You buy a stock, with the hope that the company will do well, and you will profit. Playing the up and down game simply destablized the entire system. But I don't see any way of closing that door now that it is open. We now have schools that teach people how to play the system.

Steve

Gayle in MD
07-06-2010, 07:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Obama is getting ready to tax the crap out of the middle and low income wage earners.

<span style="color: #FF0000">MORE LIES. </span>

</div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">No, it isn't. Effective today 20% of all my trading profits will be taken right off the top and I still have to pay income taxes on them as if I received them. That is nothing compared to the telephone pole suppository that is on the way in the financial reform initiative. If they get away with the financial transaction tax, how long do you think it will be before they apply it to all transactions?

Trading shops all over the country are closing up this week. Obama will not be satisfied until he puts us all out of business.</span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF6666">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.

Forgive me, if I cannot muster any sympathy for stock traders.... Trading shops closing up all over? GOOD! Most of them are thieves. Let them find another way to make money other than bilking the public. What do they produce? NOTHING!</span> </div></div>

In my opinion, the day traders, including the giant MM traders( actually big day traders themselves), are ruining the true valuation of stocks in this country. There needs to be federal regs in place that cause a strain on same day trades. Otherwise there will be no recovery in the stock market to make a difference at all. Day trader, today, are just about as much a problem for the stock market, as Freddie and Fannie was to the housing market when they loaned to every Jose out there. We are F'ked as long as the same day trades are left unbridled. sid </div></div>

Yes, and check it out, Wall Street has turned against the Democratics, financially supporting only their partners in sin in the next election, Republicans. The same Wall Street pigs who bilked all of us are only sending money to the Republican campaigns. Follow the money, makes it pretty clear which party they know will legislate, and s legislated to prevent their Ponzi schemes from continuing into the future.

I'm sure we'll see the same thing with the oil industry. Republicans have defended BP, and voted in a group to block tightening up financial regulations. The Party of deregulationm defends BP, and Defends Wall Sstreet Pigs. We now have the proof of what we lefties have been saying all along.

This next election will show proof positive how much the crooks in this country rely on Republicans to help them continue their grand theft against the Middle Class in this country.

But then when we see what kind of intellectually compromised people vote Republican, and run as Republicans, and the reaction to such statements such as..... rape and incest is part of God's plan, followed up by Angle's other remarks, bashing Harry Reid, and then saying that she can understand why people turn to the second amendment for solutions to solve their anger, this woman is defended here by our resident nutjobs. Whata is her message to her nutjobs, go get your gun and shoot Harry.

What is wrong with this country comes from Palin's so called "Real America" ignorance and hatred, that has been so divisive and damaging to our interests since REagan, for they watched and heard it all when peoople like Rove emerged, and remember when he stated to the Republican campaign, after 9/11, that that event....and our collective fear of terrorism attacks, "We can ride this horse through the next elections"

The right watched it, and approved of the fear mongering.

Bush not only did nothing, after all the "Unprecedented" warnings, for eight months, beginning with Clinton standing in the Oval Office, telling him on no uncertain terms where his attention should be, "Don't take your eye off al Qaeda" yet Bush did not one thing to prevent 9/11, just as he he did nothing, not one thing, to prevent the Wall Street Crash that he knew was coming, but never spoke about, wanting to make sure that all of his crony crooks had time to steal as much as they could from the Middle Class before the **** hit the fan.

What a bunch of crimnial Pigs! Yet, do you recall a single post of outrage over Bush flying around in Ken Lays jet???? Palin around with one of the biggest crooks in this country. I stiloll wouldn't be surprised if that SOB is still alive and hiding somewhere.

The right now denies how firmly up Bush's rear end they kept their noses throughout his administration of lies, spending and incompetence, but none can come up with a single post of outrage, not one post....it's called rewriting hhistory, it's their forte'...

G. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

LWW
07-06-2010, 07:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right on Gayle! Democracy is being dismantled by the Corpratization of our sociaty with the Republicans leading the charge!</div></div>

If only that were the truth.

Let's review the facts however:

1 - The US was never intended to e a democracy.

2 - The COTUS did not set up a democracy.

3 - The D of I did not set up a democracy.

4 - The founders did not desire a democracy.

5 - Democracies always implode.

6 - Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on who's for dinner.

LWW

Chopstick
07-06-2010, 08:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="color: #FF6666">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.

Forgive me, if I cannot muster any sympathy for stock traders.... Trading shops closing up all over? GOOD! Most of them are thieves. Let them find another way to make money other than bilking the public. What do they produce? NOTHING!</span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #000099">Unless you call producing the market that drives the entire US economy nothing. I am not surprised that you would tell someone what they can and cannot do for a living. As far as bilking the public, your crew are the real experts at that game. No one put a gun to peoples heads and forced them to enter the market. Everyone faces the same risk that we do. We are just better at than they are. </span>

Gayle in MD
07-06-2010, 08:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sid,
I think if you look back, you will see where several of us often expressed our displeasure with the fiscal policies of GWB.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Yet not one of you can come up with a single post of outrage over the Republican drunekn spending OR Bush's spending. You weren't angry about it, you were atacking those of us who were angry about it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Clearly, unemployment benefits help to stimulate the economy. Virtually every economist agrees to that much. Republicans are blocking that.

Virtually every economist stated back when Bush began to dismantle America, that we had NEVER cut taxes during war time, and that is was dangerous to do so.
</div></div></span>



I also think claiming that GW did nothing to prevent 9/11 is off the mark.

<span style="color: #FF6666">BWA HA HA HA! Name one thing he did! Just one. he didn't even suspend his vacation! Cheney had thrown out al Qaeda efforts, and told the entire anti-terrorism organization, created by Clinton, that he didn't want to hear about al Qaeda, he wanted to get everything that could be pasted together on Iraq, where the oil was. Rice told the Senate Investigating committee, and the 9/11 investigating panel that the "President didn't want to swat at Flies!!!! Flies!!!! That is how much attention they gave al Qaeda, after unpreendented WARNINGS! Bush refused to vene mett with Richard Clarke. Stop spreading your usual uneducated BS on here. Name one thing Bush did to prevent 9/11! Show one post of outrage from you righties about the spending spree! Just one! </span>

There are countless groups even today that are planning attacks on our country. Even if we are able to stop 99 out of 100 of them, that one that is successful is going to be the one that gets all the attention.

<span style="color: #FF6666">LMAO! Su you are suggesting that Bush stopped attacks previous to 9/11???? BWA HA HA HA. Whata a crock! If we were attacked right now, you'd be on here caliming it was all Obama's fault! Keep on twisting the reality of what you righties overlooked under Bush, and exaggerated under Clinton annd Obama, but don't expect those of us who you were bashing throughout, to remain silent! You said our debts didn't matter! Now, every penny spent to re-buid this economy, according to you, has been wasted. What an exercise in denial. Economists had stated that unemployment could go as high as 30%!!!! The Bush Depression could last as long as a decades, according to Bush's own words. Cut the lies and exaggerations! That dog won't hunt! </span>

As for your comment on day traders, I couldn't agree more. They have turned the stock market into a financial game board, playing it for the short term. The idea of buying stock is ideally for long term investments. You buy a stock, with the hope that the company will do well, and you will profit. Playing the up and down game simply destablized the entire system. But I don't see any way of closing that door now that it is open. We now have schools that teach people how to play the system.

Steve </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF6666">More Lies! The Democratic majority has tried to strengthen regulations, Republicans have voted against it in a block!

I have paid taxes on every dollar that was spent to pay for my health insurance my entire adult life. Why should the people who cash in on the jobs with corporatations which supply them with health insurance, not have to be taxed just like the rest of us. This isn't an increase, it is an affort to finally charge people for what they have been getting all along, that was tax free.

Ignorance and greed can be stunning! </span>

Gayle in MD
07-06-2010, 09:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="color: #FF6666">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.

Forgive me, if I cannot muster any sympathy for stock traders.... Trading shops closing up all over? GOOD! Most of them are thieves. Let them find another way to make money other than bilking the public. What do they produce? NOTHING!</span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #000099">Unless you call producing the market that drives the entire US economy nothing. I am not surprised that you would tell someone what they can and cannot do for a living. As far as bilking the public, your crew are the real experts at that game. No one put a gun to peoples heads and forced them to enter the market. Everyone faces the same risk that we do. We are just better at than they are. </span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF6666">LMAO!!!! If you're so much better at it than they are, then how come you're working for THEM!

The unregulated Stock Market is nothing but a massive Ponzi scheme, but this thread is about people with free health care from their corporate employers, whining over having to pay taxes on the dallar value of that money, spent to pay for their health care, just like the rest of us who buy our own, have alwasy had to do.

GREED! Deeman thinks the government is stealing from him, when he has to pay taxes on the money that pays for his health care, like the rest of us have always done!

Ha ha h...good one.

G. </span>

eg8r
07-06-2010, 09:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.</div></div>So your company went under? Or are you still lying?

Chop proves you were the one lying granny, and all you can do is change the subject. Hypocrite.

eg8r

Chopstick
07-06-2010, 09:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In my opinion, the day traders, including the giant MM traders( actually big day traders themselves), are ruining the true valuation of stocks in this country. There needs to be federal regs in place that cause a strain on same day trades. Otherwise there will be no recovery in the stock market to make a difference at all. Day trader, today, are just about as much a problem for the stock market, as Freddie and Fannie was to the housing market when they loaned to every Jose out there. We are F'ked as long as the same day trades are left unbridled. sid </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">Sydney, you do not understand how the market works. It is the arbitrageurs that keep stock valuations honest. They are the only ones that understand what fair valuations are. It is the giant high frequency flash trading systems that are destroying the markets and robbing the public out of billions every week. So, what is the government doing about them? Nothing.

So, you propose to make everyone hold their trades overnight and get hammered on the gap down the next morning? I bought a Randall knife at a gun show because I believed that it was under priced and a good deal. Three guys offered to buy it from me while I was walking out of the building with it. I could have made a profit on it right then. According to your logic, that should be illegal. If you want to buy stock in a company who are you going to buy it from? If you want to sell your stock, who is going to buy it from you? Suppose the company whose stock you own doubles in size and profits. Who makes the stock increase in value? Without traders, that IBM stock you bought 20 years ago $5 would still be worth $5. Actually it would be worth nothing because there would be no one to buy it.

Are the markets evil? How would companies raise money for growth and expansion without stocks and bonds? Most people are unaware of how old the markets really are. The stock market as we know it today is over twice as old as the United States. In previous forms it goes back thousands of years. It is the foundation of every economy.

Is the trader evil? Does someone have a right to make a profit and feed their family? I was at a party the other night when these guys were talking about they needed to invent something and make some money. I said, "It doesn't matter who invented it, it's who bought it and who sold it." That is literally where the money is. That invention is not going to make you any money sitting in your garage.

People always like to say traders produce nothing. Yeah, I saw that movie too. That guy who sold you your car, did he make it? If he wasn't there to sell it to you where would you get one? Make it yourself? Is he supposed to provide this service for free? If he buys your old car from you and sells it to someone he knows is looking for one that same day, is that supposed to be illegal?</span>

pooltchr
07-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Alright Granny! If that's your position, answer this.

Why didn't Obama stop the attack on our military base right here in this country? There were plenty of warning signs, so he had ample opportunity!

Why didn't he stop the boxer bomber from getting on a plane in the first place? They sure as hell knew who he was before he ever boarded the plane.

How much luck do we need. The times square bomb could have been devistating, had they known how to rig it to explode. Stupidity is the only thing that prevented a disaster.

You are so blind it's pittiful. You will never see what is really happening with this administration until you take off the partisan blinders. Until then, you are just a waste of perfectly good oxygen.

Steve

Gayle in MD
07-06-2010, 09:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.</div></div>So your company went under? Or are you still lying?

Chop proves you were the one lying granny, and all you can do is change the subject. Hypocrite.

eg8r </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF6666">Chop didn't prove a damned thing, Ed, nor do you. Ever heard of insider trading? Day traders are a big part of the problem. The crux of our economic problems is the growth in the financial industry, away from manufactruring. These prople do not produce anything.

Now make your insulting comeback, and prove onece again how ignorant you are.

cho9p made some ridiculous statements. I'm not dictating to anyone what job thay can or can't have...more lies from the right!

And no, none of my companies have gone under? I paid for my health insurance, and I paid taxes on the money that paid for it.
</span>

pooltchr
07-06-2010, 09:39 AM
Why did you pay the taxes? Why not let your company pay the taxes? Didn't you argue when I pointed out that businesses don't pay taxes, only individuals pay taxes?

Keep your money. Let your business pay it's own taxes.

Steve

Gayle in MD
07-06-2010, 10:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="color: #FF6666">You're a little late, Bush already put everyone out of business.

Forgive me, if I cannot muster any sympathy for stock traders.... Trading shops closing up all over? GOOD! Most of them are thieves. Let them find another way to make money other than bilking the public. What do they produce? NOTHING!</span> </div></div>


<span style="color: #000099">Unless you call producing the market that drives the entire US economy nothing.

<span style="color: #FF6666">That's the problem, IMO. Day traders don't produce our economy. That's bull. Manufacturing should drive the entire US economy, not an overgrown financial industry, that produces absolutely nothing, and as we have seen, many scam investors out of their money!

That's why we're in the mess we're in now. </span>
I am not surprised that you would tell someone what they can and cannot do for a living. As far as bilking the public, your crew are the real experts at that game.

<span style="color: #FF6666"> Republicans are the deregulation GURU's Chop, and the crash was all about not enough regulations, and the L. Faire&lt; the mjarket will solve verything on it's onw, BS. Welol, we've seen what the people on the inside of the "market' can do to us when we allow them unbridled tactics, and while Greenspan stated unequivically, thata he wan't concerned about fraud in the markets, how dumb is that!!!! Now, he's backed off that philosophy, now that he has seen that their greed superceeded even common sense.

As far as bilking the public, Bush is the one who did that for eight years, and Republicans broke all records on earmark spending, while Bush launched two wars, finished neither of them, cut taxes, grew the government, and paid for nothing!

You righties expect us to not even accouunt for the fact that regardless of what we might have faced after Bush, the state he left this country in was worse than anything we've seen since the great Depression, and he held the veto pen throughout, and he appointed the overseereers, and left us broke. While trying to prop up our economy, under economically disastrous conditions, was a result of Bush and Republican policies, and much harder to turn things around given the state this country was left in after Bush! No amount of denial can fly, to remove those facts.

You're still denying all of that? </span>


No one put a gun to peoples heads and forced them to enter the market.

<span style="color: #FF6666">That is no excuse for fraud! </span>


Everyone faces the same risk that we do.
<span style="color: #FF6666"> BULL! Insider trading is one of our problems. </span>

We are just better at than they are. </span> </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF6666">Again, if you're so much better at it, then how come you work for "Them" </span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not surprised that you would tell someone what they can and cannot do for a living. </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF6666"> That's a lie, Chop. Show me where I told you, or anyone else, what they can and cannot do for a living. You righties like to twist the act of having an opinion, with an effort to dictate, not the same thing. Just another Rightwing attempt to twist facts.

G.</span>

eg8r
07-06-2010, 12:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chop didn't prove a damned thing, Ed, nor do you. Ever heard of insider trading?</div></div>You never could admit it when you were wrong but you are the champ at changing the subject.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-07-2010, 02:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chop didn't prove a damned thing, Ed, nor do you. Ever heard of insider trading?</div></div>You never could admit it when you were wrong but you are the champ at changing the subject.

eg8r </div></div>


You're the pro at changing the subject. That's what you do constantly, you ignore the issue, and move to the personal insults. But, generally you twist what was written to give your own self fodder for your insults. What a convoluted load of crap you create.

You're irrelevant....just like Steve, and LWW.

LWW
07-07-2010, 04:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF6666">Chop didn't prove a damned thing, Ed, nor do you. Ever heard of insider trading? Day traders are a big part of the problem.</span> </div></div>

Fess up ... you don't know what "INSIDER TRADING" or "DAY TRADING" even means, much less the difference between the two.

LWW

Deeman3
07-10-2010, 09:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD
GREED! Deeman thinks the government is stealing from him, when he has to pay taxes on the money that pays for his health care, like the rest of us have always done!

Ha ha h...good one.

G. [/color</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

<span style="color: #C0C0C0"> Gayle,

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about taxing of health care benefits, mine are already taxed. If you had read the post, it was talking about the increases in out of pocket expenses for my hourly employees that is effectively a tax on their wages, while Obama was claiming, A) Not to impact private plans B) not to increase taxes on those making less than $250K per year.

Even the few moderates who once supported this plan now see how hopelessly it is increasing costs to the middle class and working poor. Just approiating $175 million help convince the American people it is not a disaster won't change the facts it is even uneffective at doing what it intended, stealing billions of Medicare dollars our retired folks have earned and shoving it over into Medicade to join the further waste of money on people who won't take care of themselves at even the most modest levels.

Now they are making a last ditch to pass lame duck legislation on the tax and trade pryamid scheme. November may change some of this. We can all hope for it anyway. </span>

Qtec
07-10-2010, 05:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It is the giant high frequency flash trading systems that are destroying the markets and robbing the public out of billions every week. So, what is the government doing about them? Nothing. </div></div>
Exactly. When the Govt bailed them out did they start lending again? No. They can make more money with less risk by being first to receive the data.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many Wall Street firms have made great strides to reduce data latency internally by reorganizing data distribution within the enterprise to reduce bottlenecks or by investing in tick-data systems designed to process data quickly. But recently, an external option for reducing data latency has emerged. Firms are beginning to colocate servers armed with algorithmic strategies <span style='font-size: 17pt'>near or at market centers or electronic communications networks</span> </div></div>

They are still playing the same games that took America, and the rest of the world, down.

Q......... link (http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/advancedtrading/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=169500452)

Qtec
07-10-2010, 05:34 PM
Also.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Firms are beginning to colocate servers <u>armed with algorithmic strategies</u> </div></div>

ie nothing to do with jobs or the US economy, the good of the country etc......

The Stock Exchange, when it started, dealt in real things. When you bought a share, you had a real piece of that company. You bought shares/invested in companies who you thought would use that money to become more successful and increase the value of the shares and the dividend.
These days, stock is often bought to drive the price down, sometimes killing a company just for profit. Look at the banks that have failed.

These days , the stock market is like a casino where ALL customers can bet on credit. Whether they have the money or not.

Q

Gayle in MD
07-11-2010, 10:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD
GREED! Deeman thinks the government is stealing from him, when he has to pay taxes on the money that pays for his health care, like the rest of us have always done!

Ha ha h...good one.

G. [/color</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

<span style="color: #C0C0C0"> Gayle,

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about taxing of health care benefits, mine are already taxed. If you had read the post, it was talking about the increases in out of pocket expenses for my hourly employees that is effectively a tax on their wages, while Obama was claiming, A) Not to impact private plans B) not to increase taxes on those making less than $250K per year.

Even the few moderates who once supported this plan now see how hopelessly it is increasing costs to the middle class and working poor. Just approiating $175 million help convince the American people it is not a disaster won't change the facts it is even uneffective at doing what it intended, stealing billions of Medicare dollars our retired folks have earned and shoving it over into Medicade to join the further waste of money on people who won't take care of themselves at even the most modest levels.

Now they are making a last ditch to pass lame duck legislation on the tax and trade pryamid scheme. November may change some of this. We can all hope for it anyway. </span> </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">From your own original post:

</span> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Starting in 2011—next year—the W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be
increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are provided. It doesn't matter if you're retired. Your gross income WILL go up by the amount
of insurance your employer paid for So you’ll be required to pay taxes on a larger
sum of money that you actually received. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Do you have an employer? </span>

<span style="color: #FF6666">Those who pay for their own health insurance, pay taxes on the income that buys it.

You post is about those whose employers provide HCI, being taxed on the value of the employer paid health insurance, is it not?

G. </span>

pooltchr
07-11-2010, 10:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You post is about those whose employers provide HCI, being taxed on the value of the employer paid health insurance, is it not?

G. [/color] </div></div>

And that would be the great majority of Americans, would it not?

Steve