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dr_dave
07-14-2010, 03:45 PM
Mike Massey gave an exhibition at Match Ups in Fort Collins this past weekend (7/10/10) and he agreed to let me record and post video for many of the shots. We also recorded some things with my high-speed camera for super-slow-motion playback. Here are all of the videos:

finger pool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwtwmne8Wds)
power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg)
trick shot collection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diWd0UfWZHk)
frozen-to-cushion-and-snookered shot options (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELMako3tlwI)
jump shot variations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fuBjebKaW4)
draw with English off frozen balls for three-rail billiard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zCVKz0cs8)

I apologize for the poor lighting, background noise, and limited camera angle. I didn't get much alone-time with Mike, and I didn't want to disrupt or cause distractions during his exhibition.

It was a real pleasure to meet Mike and watch his show. He seemed to really like the high-speed-camera stuff, even though the bright lights can be very annoying. He seemed particularly happy and proud to capture the finger pool stuff on video.

Enjoy the clips. Be sure to at least check out the finger pool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwtwmne8Wds) and power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg) videos. The high-speed camera made these particularly revealing and interesting.

Mike and I look forward to seeing which shots you guys like the best, and why. I'm also curious to see what people think about his elbow drop in the power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg) video. Mike sure seemed surprised by what he saw.

Thanks,
Dave

dr_dave
07-17-2010, 07:08 AM
Has anybody tried the finger pool yet, and have you gotten it to work to your satisfaction?

I've tried it, and I'm not satisfied, and my fingers hurt. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Dave

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike Massey gave an exhibition at Match Ups in Fort Collins this past weekend (7/10/10) and he agreed to let me record and post video for many of the shots. We also recorded some things with my high-speed camera for super-slow-motion playback. Here are all of the videos:

finger pool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwtwmne8Wds)
power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg)
trick shot collection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diWd0UfWZHk)
frozen-to-cushion-and-snookered shot options (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELMako3tlwI)
jump shot variations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fuBjebKaW4)
draw with English off frozen balls for three-rail billiard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zCVKz0cs8)

I apologize for the poor lighting, background noise, and limited camera angle. I didn't get much alone-time with Mike, and I didn't want to disrupt or cause distractions during his exhibition.

It was a real pleasure to meet Mike and watch his show. He seemed to really like the high-speed-camera stuff, even though the bright lights can be very annoying. He seemed particularly happy and proud to capture the finger pool stuff on video.

Enjoy the clips. Be sure to at least check out the finger pool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwtwmne8Wds) and power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg) videos. The high-speed camera made these particularly revealing and interesting.

Mike and I look forward to seeing which shots you guys like the best, and why. I'm also curious to see what people think about his elbow drop in the power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg) video. Mike sure seemed surprised by what he saw.

Thanks,
Dave </div></div>

cushioncrawler
07-17-2010, 06:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm also curious to see what people think about his elbow drop in the power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg) video. Mike sure seemed surprised by what he saw.</div></div>Hi Dr Dave -- What exaktly woz Mike surprized at. Me myself i woz very surprized at 4 things.

1..... If u just watch the cue itself, the butt deskribes a big U in the vertical plane. When i say big, it iz big, but,
2..... the radius iz aktually small, ie a very sharp big U. I would hav thort that to get lots of cue speed that the U would hav a very large radius. And that it would be a very shallow U, closer to a straight line. Javelin throwers dont exaggerate their U.

3..... Part of the reason for the big small U might be that Mike likes to get some down moovment in the Qtip, ie to help the skrewy aktion. But this aint necessary. In fakt Mike would probly get more skrew if he lifted the stick throo the ball, ie if Mike finished with the stick in the air rather than on the table. But i suppoze that due to peculiaritys some players would skrew better by dropping the Qtip throo the ball. But i am sure that most would do better by lifting.

4..... Mike's bridge iz very short. I think it iz shorter than what most pool players would uze for any shot. For a power shot i would hav thort that Mike would hav inkreeced hiz bridge length to the max.

5..... In fakt a super'long'bridge would allow elbow-drop on the backSwing, and elbow'rize on the forwardSwing. The most powerfull skrew aktion known to man'woman. Its a bit like throwing a javelin under'hand.
madMac.

cushioncrawler
07-17-2010, 07:02 PM
Re fingerPool, its amazing how much spin etc Mike gets. I had a go just then and once i allmost got a ball to go 2ft and turn at 90dg and go 2ft. Mike sends it 4ft to turn 3ft.

Horace Lindrum (died 1973) woz possibly even better at fingerSpin than Mike. I hav some flix of hiz trix on a 12ft table.
madMac.

mstng81
07-18-2010, 04:39 AM
I seem to remember a video where Mike said the only way he could get that kind of draw was to drop his elbow like that. It obviously works, I can't argue that. It looks like he's standing right on the cue ball, not wasting any good 'focused' forward motion on getting the tip to the cue ball. Maybe a combination of leverage and practice? What I wouldn't give to be able to pull a shot like that out on a league night...

dr_dave
07-18-2010, 07:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm also curious to see what people think about his elbow drop in the power draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59amcNEN0Tg) video. Mike sure seemed surprised by what he saw.</div></div>Hi Dr Dave -- What exaktly woz Mike surprized at.</div></div>I think he was mostly surprised that the large elbow drop didn't occur until well after the ball was gone, and after the cue had already come to a stop. It almost looks like the flex of the cue (because the tip is driven down into the table after the hit) is the primary force that drives the elbow down (and moves the cue forward again). It doesn't appear that the large elbow drop is helping to create power, which Mike thought was the case.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me myself i woz very surprized at 4 things.

1..... If u just watch the cue itself, the butt deskribes a big U in the vertical plane. When i say big, it iz big, but,
2..... the radius iz aktually small, ie a very sharp big U. I would hav thort that to get lots of cue speed that the U would hav a very large radius. And that it would be a very shallow U, closer to a straight line. Javelin throwers dont exaggerate their U.</div></div>This sounds like the pendulum vs. piston stroke (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/stroke.html#pendulum) argument. Mike's stroke is certainly more like a pendulum stroke than a piston stroke, until the large elbow drop well after the forward pendulum part of the stroke is complete.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3..... Part of the reason for the big small U might be that Mike likes to get some down moovment in the Qtip, ie to help the skrewy aktion.</div></div>I think Mike's tip is coming into the ball fairly level (close to the contact with the ball), as you would expect with a pendulum stroke. After contact, due to the upward motion of the grip hand on the upward pendulum swing (and partly due to cue elevation), the tip does go down into the table, but the CB is already well gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4..... Mike's bridge iz very short. I think it iz shorter than what most pool players would uze for any shot. For a power shot i would hav thort that Mike would hav inkreeced hiz bridge length to the max.</div></div>Mike obviously has fast-twitch muscle fibers and lots of strength. He doesn't need extra bridge length (which would probably just add inaccuracy for him).

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
07-18-2010, 07:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mstng81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I seem to remember a video where Mike said the only way he could get that kind of draw was to drop his elbow like that.</div></div>Here it is:
Mike's video with elbow drop advice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI1Q-8nfiBk)

Regards,
Dave

pooltchr
07-18-2010, 07:58 AM
Dave,
The videos you provide give us a great opportunity to analyze what exactly is happening as he shoots. I suspect there are quite a few "elbow droppers" who would be surprised to see what a slow motion video actually reveals about when it happens.

But, everyone should do themselves a favot and watch again, not with an analytical eye, but just enjoy the videos for the entertainment factor. Mike puts on a great show!

Steve

dr_dave
07-18-2010, 09:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave,
The videos you provide give us a great opportunity to analyze what exactly is happening as he shoots. I suspect there are quite a few "elbow droppers" who would be surprised to see what a slow motion video actually reveals about when it happens.</div></div>I look forward to filming more "elbow droppers" in the future. I suspect Mike's technique is not representative of all "elbow droppers."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But, everyone should do themselves a favot and watch again, not with an analytical eye, but just enjoy the videos for the entertainment factor. Mike puts on a great show!</div></div>Well stated! Agreed.

Regards,
Dave

Sid_Vicious
07-18-2010, 02:36 PM
Wish he'd had the slo-mo in close up at 90 degrees for the stroke. He addresses CB at near cloth level, but you never get to see if he really finds enough meat on the CB that low to avoid "the hop" and miscue. IMO, he has to hit some higher at-final-stroke, and you never get to see it. I'd enjoy y'alls feedback on this.

Another analyzing question here. Could Massey perform that shot with a wall stick, or is his cue tailored for the shot? It means a lot for players seeing this to know, because if the equipment/tip has some keys to making such a power draw, then it doesn't pay to even dwell on a big shot like this for most of us here. You can beat your brains out trying this shot, and just flub up in a ugly fashion...sid

Alex Berger
07-18-2010, 08:53 PM
nice game...........................

dr_dave
07-19-2010, 06:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wish he'd had the slo-mo in close up at 90 degrees for the stroke. He addresses CB at near cloth level, but you never get to see if he really finds enough meat on the CB that low to avoid "the hop" and miscue. IMO, he has to hit some higher at-final-stroke, and you never get to see it. I'd enjoy y'alls feedback on this.</div></div>The video doesn't have a close-up of the tip, but the super-slow-mo of the forearm and elbow tell the whole story. If you pause the replay of the forward stroke, you will see that the elbow is only slightly lower at CB contact (when the forearm is near vertical) than at address, so the tip if very close to the same place on the CB (i.e., he hits the CB very low, on the verge of a miscue).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another analyzing question here. Could Massey perform that shot with a wall stick, or is his cue tailored for the shot? It means a lot for players seeing this to know, because if the equipment/tip has some keys to making such a power draw, then it doesn't pay to even dwell on a big shot like this for most of us here. You can beat your brains out trying this shot, and just flub up in a ugly fashion...sid</div></div>Mike was using his normal playing cue on this shot, and I'm sure he could have made the shot with practically any cue in the house, as long as the tip could hold chalk.

FYI, lot's of good advice on how to achieve good draw action can be found here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#advice
However, even if one follows all of this advice and practices, one might not be able to hit the shot as well as Mike ... with any cue. It's all about hitting the CB low with enough cue speed. Most people can't generate as much cue speed as Mike. It also helps to play on slick and fast cloth. A draw shot like this is much more difficult on sticky and slow cloth.

Regards,
Dave

cushioncrawler
07-19-2010, 04:18 PM
Dang, had another go at finger'pool this morning, and now i hav a blood blister. But i went better throwing'kurving left'to'right, instead of mike's right'to'left -- once, i sent the ball over 2ft and it turned at 90dg and went 5ft. Trouble with LtoR iz that the ball haz check'side along the top rail, instead of running'side.

Revizited that power draw -- dang, mike just uzes a short little sawn'off jab of a stroke -- but in the slo'mo i did notice that mike uzed some wrist aktion too. I will giv that a go next time i praktis.
On the other hand (pun intended), throwing some wrist into the equation wouldnt really help much unless mike inkreeced the L of hiz bridge to giv the wrist some additional space to work, otherwize, if not inkreecing the L, the wrist aktion will be robbing some L from the hand (pendulum) aktion.
madMac.