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View Full Version : custom cues makers??????????



08-26-2002, 01:41 PM
why is it that many cue builders claim to have custom made cues when they only build the butt. the shaft is usually bought unfinished from a "shaft maker" and then finished to match the custom butt. shouldn't these folks be called "custom butt makers". many custom cue makers will give you a choice of shafts. i have a custom butt with a predator on it, does this make my predator shaft a custom shaft? i'm always happy to show my butt. when i'm at the PH everyone admires my butt however i never hear anyone say "you should see that guys shaft".
is predator, meucci red dot & black dot shafts considered a "custom made shaft". who builds custom shafts? if i buy a "custom cue" am i just getting someones butt while he gives me the "shaft"

Q-guy
08-26-2002, 01:55 PM
I don't know any cuemakers that don't turn their own shafts. What gives you that idea. There are suppliers that do supply pre turned shafts for hobbyists but that is about it. No cuemakers I know buy pre turned shafts. Most work from one inch dowels or squares. I tried cutting from boards once, but there was so much waste it was not worth it. I prefer paying the price for pre selected dowels form a supplier that knows what a cuemaker wants. Predator shafts are another deal. They build a unique shaft and if that is what the player wants the cuemaker may put one on. How are you being screwed?

08-26-2002, 02:34 PM
1,,,what custom cuemaker are you talking about

2,,,no...you're wrong

08-26-2002, 02:50 PM
I don't think he really thinks he's getting screwed. I think we were supposed to be amused by all the "butt" and "shaft" puns. What I want to know is ... how come I can buy a brand new set of Mizuno MP-33 irons for $799 retail (I actually paid $550 for a brand new set on E-Bay), but $799 won't get me too far if I want a nice cue. It seems odd that top-of-the-line pool cues would be more expensive than top-of-the-line golf clubs (irons, anyway) when the target consumers of golf clubs have much more money to spend than the target consumers of pool cues.

BLACKHEART
08-26-2002, 03:14 PM
To the "BUTT & SHAFT" person, I can only say that Qguy is right. Most of us Qmakers have a taper that is somewhat our own. I turn my shafts on a lathe with a taper bar( from a 1 inch dowel). Then when it's slightly oversized I HAND SAND the shaft to my "CUSTOM" taper. There isn't another shaft(from any other Qmaker), like it, so I guess BLACK HEART CUES shafts are custom made. I never thought of them as such before. Custom is a word thrown around a lot in the Q business. My Qs are one of a kinds. I think that makes them custom. They are not mass produced & they are not made by a computer. I don't make 66 inch Qs or Qs with any taper other than mine so what could it be, but a CUSTOM Q & SHAFT...JER

Q-guy
08-26-2002, 03:20 PM
I am sure there is a number of potential answer. But the first thing that comes to mind is the clubs can be manufactured in an unlimited quantity based on demand. Whereas a cuemaker is only going to build so many cues in his lifetime no matter what he does. As many cuemakers as there seems to be, if you check you will find most don't produce more then 100 cues a year. Many more like 50 or 60. With the large number of players well in the millions. The small total production of high quality cues does not keep up with the demand. I guess it is supply and demand. That is for moderately priced cues I am talking $600. to maybe $1200. When a cuemaker builds a very high end cue. If it is not built for a particular customer, it may not sell for a while. I know cuemakers that have cues in their inventories that they have had for years. I am sure there is some other answers to your question.

SpiderMan
08-26-2002, 03:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: simsd:</font><hr> i'm always happy to show my butt. when i'm at the PH everyone admires my butt however i never hear anyone say "you should see that guys shaft
<hr></blockquote>

Story of my life. Always showing my butt. Never being asked for the rest.

SpiderMan

BLACKHEART
08-26-2002, 03:44 PM
Not all CUSTOM Qs are priced out of reach. You can get a BLACK HEART Q with 4 points &amp; 2 vaneers around each point. An ivory diamond in each of the points &amp; 4 ivory diamonds in the butt for $815. That's pretty close to the $799 price tag you qouted...JER
SORRY, that was an out &amp; out commercial, but I didn't want everyone to think that custom made Qs are untouchable.

Voodoo Daddy
08-26-2002, 04:49 PM
Cover that up man...geez! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

griffith_d
08-27-2002, 06:19 AM
Barringer Cues will let you create your own cue online for around $1k. Nice wood and it should hit good as they seem to be a good cue maker and some people I have written who have hit with them said so.

To me, custom means, made to an original specification. Not some mass produced cue making 1000's. It usually means, one of a kind. Kinda like a thumbprint of the person requesting such a cue.

Griff

Griff

Fred Agnir
08-27-2002, 07:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: griffith_d:</font><hr> To me, custom means, made to an original specification. <hr></blockquote>
I'm not meaning to rag on you, but I will address the above statement. I'm not sure why, but it seems to be that the only people who have confusion as to what "custom" means is cue stick consumers.

The word "custom" in the manufacturing world simply means "not standard." That could mean a whole lot of things which may include but is not limited to one-of-a-kind or mass-produced. When cuemakers started making jointed, balanced, and wrapped cues, these were considered "custom" as opposed to standard one-piece full-splice I suppose. An obvious example is the auto industry calling certain production lines as "custom..." So, in pool cues that are mass-produced, the word "custom" simply means that there are enough differences in each stick that suits an individual, be it aesthetics, sound, weight, balance etc. You just don't go to McDermott and grab. You pick one that suits you individually. That's "custom."

The terms "production" and "custom" are *not* opposites. You can most definitely mass-produce a custom item. There a million examples in every other industry which might include custom temporary tattoos to custom ink (gallons upon gallons).

Another example is if someone wants to make, say, a fender for a car no longer in production. Well, that wouldn't be an "original specification", but it most certainly would be a "custom" piece of compound metal work.

Recently, I had to order some steel washers. About 2 million of them. They are an off-the-shelf standard size and material, but the quantities dictate that only certain manufacturing companies are readily able to make them. So, if I go with a stamping company that doesn't normally make them, they are "custom" for that particular manufacturer.

These are all within standard understanding of the manufacturing term "custom." I'm not sure why cue buyers want to equate "custom" with "one-of-a-kind" or "original specification." It just isn't so. Even the more specific "custombuilt" doesn't equate to these definitions.

Fred &lt;~~~ knows that "M" companies mass-produce custom cues.

08-27-2002, 08:24 AM
i am still waiting on 2 "custom cues" that i ordered at the BCA Expo in New Orleans. i ordered from who i thought was a reputable custom cue maker. his cues &amp; workmanship are very well known &amp; respected. we set down and designed these cues picking out type of inlays (64 ivory inlays) joint type &amp; ivory ferule. shaft taper and diameter, each cue wts &amp; balance point. these cues will be unique and signed by the cue maker. recently when checking on the finish dates i was told that these cues would be delayed because "the guy who makes his shafts has been sick but will finished them asap". when i questioned this i was told that "this is commom pratice, only a few cue makers take the time to make they'er own shafts from scratch but get shaft blanks &amp; re-finish to specs". I will NOT call any names but will say " I ORDERED 2 BLOODY CUSTOM CUES &amp; NOT A CUSTOM BUTT WITH A CUSTOMIZED SHAFT"!!!!! we are now both miffed, him because i said this is NOT what i ordered and wanted my deposit $$$$ back and me because of NO REFUNDS due to cues being made to specs.
2 ? CUSTOM CUES ? FOR SALE MAKE OFFER

SpiderMan
08-27-2002, 08:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: BLACKHEART:</font><hr> To the "BUTT &amp; SHAFT" person, I can only say that Qguy is right. Most of us Qmakers have a taper that is somewhat our own. I turn my shafts on a lathe with a taper bar( from a 1 inch dowel). Then when it's slightly oversized I HAND SAND the shaft to my "CUSTOM" taper. There isn't another shaft(from any other Qmaker), like it, so I guess BLACK HEART CUES shafts are custom made. I never thought of them as such before. Custom is a word thrown around a lot in the Q business. My Qs are one of a kinds. I think that makes them custom. They are not mass produced &amp; they are not made by a computer. I don't make 66 inch Qs or Qs with any taper other than mine so what could it be, but a CUSTOM Q &amp; SHAFT...JER <hr></blockquote>

JER,

I think we're confusing the term custom a little here. I'd agree that your cues, "one of a kind", are custom. But you said that your shafts, while made to a unique standard, are all the same. If they can't be customized, they aren't custom, are they?

BTW, I think making them all the same (as opposed to custom) is a good idea, provided it's a taper I like. I wouldn't mind discriminating between cuemakers according to whether I like their tapers.

SpiderMan

Fred Agnir
08-27-2002, 08:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: simsd:</font><hr> when i questioned this i was told that "this is commom pratice, only a few cue makers take the time to make they'er own shafts from scratch but get shaft blanks &amp; re-finish to specs". I will NOT call any names but will say " I ORDERED 2 BLOODY CUSTOM CUES &amp; NOT A CUSTOM BUTT WITH A CUSTOMIZED SHAFT"!!!!! we are now both miffed, him because i said this is NOT what i ordered and wanted my deposit $$$$ back and me because of NO REFUNDS due to cues being made to specs.
2 ? CUSTOM CUES ? FOR SALE MAKE OFFER <hr></blockquote>
Maybe there's some miscommunication as to what the "shaft blanks" look like. Anyway, not to belittle your post as it's obvious you are pissed off. But, so far, you haven't described anything that sounds out of the realm of possibility for reputable high-end cuemakers.

I mean, it's not cost effective if you're expecting him to cut blanks out of boards. Maybe you can tell us what work you *do* expect from a cuemaker when it comes to shaftwork. Do you expect one man to do all the work, even if he has a team of workers? There's enough cuemakers in here to set the record straight.

Fred

Fred Agnir
08-27-2002, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SpiderMan:</font><hr> But you said that your shafts, while made to a unique standard, are all the same. If they can't be customized, they aren't custom, are they?<hr></blockquote>
They are his "standard", but they are "custom" when compared to the industry "standard." OTOH, if there isn't a true pool industry standard, then all shaft tapers might be considered "custom" when compared to a straight taper.

That should be confusing enough. I wouldn't get to hung up on the term "custom." It's entirely too vague and encompassing.

Fred &lt;~~~ custom cue user

Q-guy
08-27-2002, 09:30 AM
You can't get a custom cue from any cue maker in a month. If you are bugging the guy already about the cue, he should send you back your money and be glad to do it.

bluewolf
08-27-2002, 09:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SpiderMan:</font><hr> Quote: simsd: i'm always happy to show my butt. when i'm at the PH everyone admires my butt however i never hear anyone say "you should see that guys shaft
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Story of my life. Always showing my butt. Never being asked for the rest.

SpiderMan <hr></blockquote>

ever read the book 'under the grandstand' by i c butts
rofl

bluewolf

bluewolf
08-27-2002, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> You can't get a custom cue from any cue maker in a month. If you are bugging the guy already about the cue, he should send you back your money and be glad to do it. <hr></blockquote>

i guess my cues are semi-custom. i could pick from various butt styles,shafts ie 12.5 or 13.0 and pick the colors i wanted. the joints were standard.it took about a month to get them.

bluewolf

bluewolf
08-27-2002, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimmyTheD:</font><hr> I don't think he really thinks he's getting screwed. I think we were supposed to be amused by all the "butt" and "shaft" puns. What I want to know is ... how come I can buy a brand new set of Mizuno MP-33 irons for $799 retail (I actually paid $550 for a brand new set on E-Bay), but $799 won't get me too far if I want a nice cue. It seems odd that top-of-the-line pool cues would be more expensive than top-of-the-line golf clubs (irons, anyway) when the target consumers of golf clubs have much more money to spend than the target consumers of pool cues. [/quote

supply vs demand. and how many golfers are ordering custoom golf clubs?

bluewolf

Q-guy
08-27-2002, 10:10 AM
What kind of cues are they? In regard to the guy asking the question, he ordered a cue from scratch with custom inlay, woods and so forth. This does not come out of a bin &amp; barrel, where you just pick out pieces and mix and match to box up. There is months of turning alone, before you even begin to have what resembles a cue. Trust me, no one builds a cue in a month from scratch.

Rich R.
08-27-2002, 10:37 AM
I agree with you Q-guy. I ordered a cue in May and the estimated delivery time is September or October.
The cue I am currently using, I picked out of cues that where already in process. It still took almost two months to complete.
You just can't rush quality.
Cue makers do not have back orders for months and years because they do not want to fill them and get paid.
Rich R.

griffith_d
08-27-2002, 10:42 AM
I am sorry you are confused, but the dictonary says:

Main Entry: cus.tom-made
Pronunciation: 'k&amp;s-t&amp;(m)-'mAd
Function: adjective
Date: 1855
: made to individual specifications

http://www.yourdictionary.com/cgi-bin/mw.cgi

Fred Agnir
08-27-2002, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: griffith_d:</font><hr> I am sorry you are confused, but the dictonary says:

Main Entry: cus.tom-made
Pronunciation: 'k&amp;s-t&amp;(m)-'mAd
Function: adjective
Date: 1855
: made to individual specifications <hr></blockquote>
But that's not what you wrote. You wrote "original specifications." The dictionary definition is closer to the examples that I wrote.

Fred

griffith_d
08-27-2002, 11:09 AM
I think you are picking apart words,...Original specs would refer to the "first" specs of its kind,..the word individual specs refer to singular, meaning "one",...one would refer to only,...do you get it now?

Fred Agnir
08-27-2002, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: griffith_d:</font><hr> I think you are picking apart words,...Original specs would refer to the "first" specs of its kind,..the word individual specs refer to singular, meaning "one",...one would refer to only,...do you get it now? <hr></blockquote>
I'm not sure why you think I'm the one who doesn't get it.

"Individual" in this case means "pertaining to an individual." That "individual" could very well be an "individual group." Those "individual specifications" do not necessarily have to be "original." This is common in "custom manufacturing." I'm sure you can think of a multitude of examples.

"Individual" in this context does not mean "one-of-a-kind." Case in point, you can certainly have two identical custom cues made to order with your very own individual specifications. Or you could have copied/borrowed/stolen your best friends ideas for your very own individual, albiet un-original, specifications.

Fred &lt;~~~ not my first paper route

griffith_d
08-27-2002, 11:28 AM
I think you brain is leaking

08-27-2002, 12:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> You can't get a custom cue from any cue maker in a month. If you are bugging the guy already about the cue, he should send you back your money and be glad to do it. <hr></blockquote>

DID YOU READ MY POST? IT SAID I CALLED TO "CHECK" ON FINISHED DATE!!! i was told to give him a call in a month for so for a time frame. I'm sure this guy sold many Custom Butts with a Customized shaft while at NO.

Q-guy
08-27-2002, 01:08 PM
I stick by what I said. He should be glad to give you back your money and be done with you, if you think what he told you was so unreasonable. You are saying the only delay is the shafts. You are so far from the cue being finished if it is a custom cue. The shafts are the least of your problems. I am curious what you thought the target date was going to be? If he tells you 9 months are going to be satisfied to wait. I can't help but wonder what is you are mad at him about?

08-27-2002, 01:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: simsd:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; when i questioned this i was told that "this is commom pratice, only a few cue makers take the time to make they'er own shafts from scratch but get shaft blanks &amp; re-finish to specs". I will NOT call any names but will say " I ORDERED 2 BLOODY CUSTOM CUES &amp; NOT A CUSTOM BUTT WITH A CUSTOMIZED SHAFT"!!!!! we are now both miffed, him because i said this is NOT what i ordered and wanted my deposit $$$$ back and me because of NO REFUNDS due to cues being made to specs.
2 ? CUSTOM CUES ? FOR SALE MAKE OFFER &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Maybe there's some miscommunication as to what the "shaft blanks" look like. Anyway, not to belittle your post as it's obvious you are pissed off. But, so far, you haven't described anything that sounds out of the realm of possibility for reputable high-end cuemakers.

I mean, it's not cost effective if you're expecting him to cut blanks out of boards. Maybe you can tell us what work you *do* expect from a cuemaker when it comes to shaftwork. Do you expect one man to do all the work, even if he has a team of workers? There's enough cuemakers in here to set the record straight.

Fred <hr></blockquote>

Ok, maybe i misunderstood BUT wouldn't you think a Custom Cue, key word is cue", is the butt &amp; shaft, what is one without the other? A custom made cue that i designed, &amp; for some unknown reason would expect to be one of a kind, will have a shaft made by someone other than my butt maker. doesn't a shaft blank look like a shaft? if all i have to do is add taper, a ferrule , tip &amp; a joint is it now considered custom CUE or just a custom made butt with a customized shaft.
and yes i'm pissed i'm paying over 7 grand for 2 custom butts. guess i should of ordered red butts huh!!!

08-27-2002, 01:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


supply vs demand. and how many golfers are ordering custoom golf clubs?


<hr></blockquote>

I'm not really complaining about high cue prices. I was just pointing out the fact that there is more money in golf, as an industry, than pool, but pool equipment is, in many cases, more expensive. Since you asked, I'll answer, many people order custom clubs. In fact, I'm sure that more people order custom golf clubs than they do custom pool cues.

Fred Agnir
08-27-2002, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: simsd:</font><hr> Ok, maybe i misunderstood BUT wouldn't you think a Custom Cue, key word is cue", is the butt &amp; shaft, what is one without the other? A custom made cue that i designed, &amp; for some unknown reason would expect to be one of a kind, will have a shaft made by someone other than my butt maker. doesn't a shaft blank look like a shaft? <hr></blockquote>

If you're asking me if I think that my cuemaker must be the guy who turns every piece of sawdust off of a maple dowel to form the final shaft, then I'd say, "no." I personally don't find anything wrong with a cuemaker farming out shaft blanks to an outside source if it's cost effective.

If you visit a shop like South West for example, they have shafts in various turning stages, hanging around resting. Each shaft isn't specific to any butt until nearly the end when it finally gets matched-up. Until then, any of the South West workers could have had their hands on them. I suspect this is the same for any small shop.

Fred

08-27-2002, 01:48 PM
i'm pissed i'm paying over 7 grand for 2 custom butts. guess i should of ordered red butts huh!!! <hr></blockquote>

never met a fire what couldn't use a little more gasoline so......

you're spending that kind of money and you're suprised at how they're made? oh boy.

for everyone else out there, let's get something straight. in most cases, what you are buying is art. after they get the basics down most cuemakers are selling butt-art and your decisions should be around the quality of that art...to you...and the resale-value-reputation of the cuemaker.

a shaft blank is something like a 1" square dowell. there is craftsmanship in selecting the blank, how to turn it down and what taper is best for the final. the last part is pure machine work and a decent cuemaker should be able to spec the taper and have a qualified, trusted person do it for them.

i assume that you have shot with this guys cues and like the hit. don't worry, that's the hit you'll get.

a cuemaker i know has a customer trying to back out of a deal 'cause there are little brown (worm poop is the technical term) lines in the shaft wood. just a couple. well, that's what he says. the truth is he personally designed the butt-art and it looks like dog poop.

accpet the butts if they are well crafted. throw away the shafts and replace 'em with predators. that's what a lot of people are doing anyway. have your guy remove the 314 decal and noone will know.


dan...and that's the real poop.

08-27-2002, 02:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> I stick by what I said. He should be glad to give you back your money and be done with you, if you think what he told you was so unreasonable. You are saying the only delay is the shafts. You are so far from the cue being finished if it is a custom cue. The shafts are the least of your problems. I am curious what you thought the target date was going to be? If he tells you 9 months are going to be satisfied to wait. I can't help but wonder what is you are mad at him about? <hr></blockquote>

as i said i sat down with this guy &amp; discussed everything i wanted in this custom cue and also how HIS cues would play as good as any other cue made. If i knew that he was not going to build the whole thing i would have just ordered a Predator blank and have him customize it. this guy is known as one if the best custom cue maker out there. I guess his work butt work is top notch. since both cues will be signed i would expect them to increase in value over the years. i guess i'm just disappointed that these cues are not totally 100% custom work.
as for the finished date i was asked to call because he was going to make these cues as early as possible in his schedule because 1 cue will be sold at an auction as a fund raiser for an orphanage that the fraternal organization i belong to helps sponsor (during our discussion i found that he is also a member of the same organization). i intend to buy these cues and never thought otherwise. again this guy has a reputation as one of the best, he makes &amp; markets an excellent Custom Made Cue at what i guess is standard acceptable pratice. i will be happy with what i get, if its good enough for you its gotsa be good for me.

p.s.
i typed this real slow hoping that you will better understand what i'm trying to say

08-27-2002, 02:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr> i'm pissed i'm paying over 7 grand for 2 custom butts. guess i should of ordered red butts huh!!! &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

never met a fire what couldn't use a little more gasoline so......

you're spending that kind of money and you're suprised at how they're made? oh boy.

for everyone else out there, let's get something straight. in most cases, what you are buying is art. after they get the basics down most cuemakers are selling butt-art and your decisions should be around the quality of that art...to you...and the resale-value-reputation of the cuemaker.

a shaft blank is something like a 1" square dowell. there is craftsmanship in selecting the blank, how to turn it down and what taper is best for the final. the last part is pure machine work and a decent cuemaker should be able to spec the taper and have a qualified, trusted person do it for them.

i assume that you have shot with this guys cues and like the hit. don't worry, that's the hit you'll get.

a cuemaker i know has a customer trying to back out of a deal 'cause there are little brown (worm poop is the technical term) lines in the shaft wood. just a couple. well, that's what he says. the truth is he personally designed the butt-art and it looks like dog poop.

accpet the butts if they are well crafted. throw away the shafts and replace 'em with predators. that's what a lot of people are doing anyway. have your guy remove the 314 decal and noone will know.


dan...and that's the real poop. <hr></blockquote>

the guys cues play very well but if i had know what i do known i would have ordered a Predator shaft. by the way ypu can get a predator blank without the 314

BLACKHEART
08-27-2002, 02:48 PM
I'm confused. I think I'm going to start selling lawnmowers.(but not custom lawnmowers). There's pretty good money in it &amp; if there's anything wrong with them, when they bring them back..... you charge them AGAIN...JER

heater451
08-27-2002, 04:23 PM
Have you tried asking the cuemaker if he will work with the Predator shaft?
(It might also speed up the delivery times, if he/you can get it before "his" shafts are in.)

Also, just curious. . .Did you pay by check?--In which case you could stop payment on it. Of course, this action normally causes very ill feelings. . . .

9 Ball Girl
08-27-2002, 06:08 PM
I too agree with Q-guy. Most custom cuemakers make everything from scratch. My cuemaker friend, Paul Delillo, has his own shop in his home and if you order a custom cue from him, it will take several months. Hell, you can even bring him your own wood if you'd like! I have a friend that's in the guitar making business, and he had Pauly make him a cue out some of the wood that he uses to make guitars. Oh man was it sweet!

Chris Cass
08-27-2002, 06:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Not all CUSTOM Qs are priced out of reach. You can get a BLACK HEART Q with 4 points &amp; 2 vaneers around each point. An ivory diamond in each of the points &amp; 4 ivory diamonds in the butt for $815. That's pretty close to the $799 price tag you qouted...JER
SORRY, that was an out &amp; out commercial, but I didn't want everyone to think that custom made Qs are untouchable. <hr></blockquote>

Karla's got one sweet Blackheart, for sure.

C.C.

08-28-2002, 03:31 AM
I think Balabushka cues were considered custom cues. And I know Burton Spain sold the butts or butt blanks or something like that to Balabushka. And I think Balabushka bought some from a couple other cue makers. So maybe it is a common practice for some custom cue makers to buy parts from others and do all the finishing and customizing themselves. I bought a custom cue from Spain in 81. When I went to his house/shop he had several bins filled with blocks of wood in various stages. Some were only a couple months old. Some were aged for years I think. And he helped me pick out one from a bin that could be completed in a few months or so. I think I got my cue in about 6 months. But if I would have wanted wood from some of the bins, I would have had over a year wait.

griffith_d
08-28-2002, 05:54 AM
I was reading that some Balabushkas were made by Adam and another cuemaker,...correct me if I am wrong.

Griff

Fred Agnir
08-28-2002, 06:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: griffith_d:</font><hr> I was reading that some Balabushkas were made by Adam and another cuemaker,...correct me if I am wrong.<hr></blockquote>
Just slightly misinformed. The Adam Cue Company (Richard Helmstetter) bought the rights to the designs of George Balabushka cues and makes replicas called the Balabushka line of Adam Cues. These are not to be confused in any way with the original Balabushka cues.

The original cues made by George Balabushka were made by George himself. However, he did use or purchase pre-made blanks from other cuemakers including Burton Spain and Gus Szamboti.

Fred

griffith_d
08-28-2002, 10:44 AM
The Originals are obviously the good ones,..when I was looking at the current "new" ones, they said that they were made by Adams,...so therefore I did not buy one.

Griff

bluewolf
08-28-2002, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: griffith_d:</font><hr> I think you are picking apart words,...Original specs would refer to the "first" specs of its kind,..the word individual specs refer to singular, meaning "one",...one would refer to only,...do you get it now? <hr></blockquote>

ditto. if someone thinks their cue is custom, i dont have time to argue about what the word custom means.

as for me, i guess mine are semis...and i dont mean the trucks. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

bluewolf

Cueless Joey
08-28-2002, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: griffith_d:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; I was reading that some Balabushkas were made by Adam and another cuemaker,...correct me if I am wrong.&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Just slightly misinformed. The Adam Cue Company (Richard Helmstetter) bought the rights to the designs of George Balabushka cues and makes replicas called the Balabushka line of Adam Cues. These are not to be confused in any way with the original Balabushka cues.

The original cues made by George Balabushka were made by George himself. However, he did use or purchase pre-made blanks from other cuemakers including Burton Spain and Gus Szamboti.

Fred <hr></blockquote>...
Fred, I believe Adams just bought the name and the cosmetic designs. Pete Tascarella bought his equipment and his drawings/blueprints I believe.

Ryan
08-28-2002, 12:05 PM
I've read through several of the threads here, and this topic of "custom" is getting ridiculous.

If I go to a cuemaker and give that cuemaker a set of specifications (i.e. types of wood, points, inlay designs, ring work, etc.) and that maker produces that cue, I'm a happy guy.

The purpose of purchasing a "custom" cue is to receive a better quality product than those offered by the mass-production makers that is either:

A. A personalized design manufactured to your own specifications.

B. A cuemaker's existing design that meets your own personal taste.

We all know that many "custom" cuemakers manufacture cookie cutter designs, and they should accurately be described as limited production manufacturers rather than "custom" cuemakers, but what difference does it make.

If I am able to look at a cuemakers catalog and order Model XXX, I know darned well that it is not going to be a one of a kind cue. However, I am going to be pleased since it will be something of a higher qualtity than what is produced by McDermott or Viking.

As for the custom shaft issue, I could care less about whether the cuemaker went out and chopped the maple for the shaft himself or bought a high quality blank from somewhere else. I am spending my money for a quality end product, and as long as the entire cue satisfies that requirement, I am pleased.

Bickering over Webster's definition of custom is just as silly as bickering over the source of shaft wood. It is simply argument for the sake of argument, and we should be above that.

Ryan
- watching as a dead horse keeps getting beaten over and over again for no apparent reason.

Fred Agnir
08-28-2002, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ryan:</font><hr> Bickering over Webster's definition of custom is just as silly as bickering over the source of shaft wood. It is simply argument for the sake of argument, and we should be above that.<hr></blockquote>
If we were above the silly bickering, we wouldn't be wasting our precious time here. Discussion is what these boards is all about.

Fred &lt;~~~ speaking for myself, of course

Ryan
08-28-2002, 12:42 PM
I never said that there was anything wrong with sharing an opposing position on a subject. I had just hoped that we would show a bit more restraint in selecting those topics which to debate.

When the bottom line has the equivilent level of relevence as the price of tea in China, I see no point in entering a heated discussion on the matter.

08-28-2002, 01:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ryan:</font><hr> I've read through several of the threads here, and this topic of "custom" is getting ridiculous.

If I go to a cuemaker and give that cuemaker a set of specifications (i.e. types of wood, points, inlay designs, ring work, etc.) and that maker produces that cue, I'm a happy guy.

The purpose of purchasing a "custom" cue is to receive a better quality product than those offered by the mass-production makers that is either:

A. A personalized design manufactured to your own specifications.

B. A cuemaker's existing design that meets your own personal taste.

We all know that many "custom" cuemakers manufacture cookie cutter designs, and they should accurately be described as limited production manufacturers rather than "custom" cuemakers, but what difference does it make.

If I am able to look at a cuemakers catalog and order Model XXX, I know darned well that it is not going to be a one of a kind cue. However, I am going to be pleased since it will be something of a higher qualtity than what is produced by McDermott or Viking.

As for the custom shaft issue, I could care less about whether the cuemaker went out and chopped the maple for the shaft himself or bought a high quality blank from somewhere else. I am spending my money for a quality end product, and as long as the entire cue satisfies that requirement, I am pleased.

Bickering over Webster's definition of custom is just as silly as bickering over the source of shaft wood. It is simply argument for the sake of argument, and we should be above that.

Ryan
- watching as a dead horse keeps getting beaten over and over again for no apparent reason. <hr></blockquote>

ok, let's see if i've got this right. you think the subject is stupid and not worth comment so you just gotta get your comments in.

you think they're beating a dead horse so you just gotta beat that dead horse while telling everyone else to quit.

have i got that pretty much right???

dan

Ryan
08-28-2002, 01:32 PM
Dan,

Since you are asking for a response, I will gladly provide you with one.

The topic posting had an obvious "tongue in cheek" quality to it, and the nature of the resulting discussion was the reason why I posted.

If I had intended to beat a dead horse, I would have found an alternate dictionary and presented that my definition of "custom" was superior to those presented previously. I'm sorry, but that's not my style.

08-28-2002, 02:08 PM
McDermott has been building cues for 27 years, Viking has been building them for 40 years. There are Custom Cuemakers out there that have been building cue's for as short as 3 months.

So your saying because it's "custom" that means it's going to be better quality than a McDermott or Viking? This may be a common perception but that doesn't mean its right.

Alfie
08-28-2002, 02:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ryan:</font><hr> I've read through several of the threads here, and this topic of "custom" is getting ridiculous. [snip]<hr></blockquote> I don't know what to say.

Alfie
08-28-2002, 02:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> Bickering over Webster's definition of custom is just as silly as bickering over the source of shaft wood. It is simply argument for the sake of argument, and we should be above that. <hr></blockquote>

If we were above the silly bickering, we wouldn't be wasting our precious time here. Discussion is what these boards is all about. <hr></blockquote> Isn't there a black box we can put a cue into that will tell us whether or not it is a custom cue?

SPetty
08-28-2002, 02:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ryan:</font><hr> When the bottom line has the equivilent level of relevence as the price of tea in China, I see no point in entering a heated discussion on the matter. <hr></blockquote>Hi Ryan,

I don't know what the price of tea in China is, but the price of Chinese tea in Japan is 500 yen - 700 yen:

http://www.rouran.net/e/

Hope that helps /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Rod
08-28-2002, 03:10 PM
ha ha ha, will you convert that to american. I need to see if I can afford it before I go.

bluewolf
08-28-2002, 05:13 PM
LOL. as long as people want to talk about this, the tread will stay alive. when people are sick of it, the thread will die. personally, i think it has gotten kind of silly, but what the heck, i am only one person

bluewolf

08-28-2002, 05:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


You can get a BLACK HEART Q with 4 points &amp; 2 vaneers around each point. An ivory diamond in each of the points &amp; 4 ivory diamonds in the butt for $815. That's pretty close to the $799 price tag you qouted...JER


<hr></blockquote>

I'm going to bring up another point here. There are so many custom cue makers out there now that it is hard to keep up with all the names. Many of the custom cue makers are either 1) relatively new on the scene, or 2) not as well known as people like Bill Stroud, Joey Gold, Ernie Gutierrez (sp), Tad Kohara, Paul Mottey, etc. However, these cue-makers are still charging fairly competitive prices for their products. Not to say that the cues are not quality work, or that hard work goes into making them, but shouldn't the high prices be reserved for those cue-makers who have been out here for a long time, and have earned a name for themselves? Since this particular sub-thread started with a comparison to golf equipment prices, I'm going to make the comparison once more. If a person spends, say, $1000 on irons, they are probably purchasing irons that are made by a very reputable and established company. The clubs that I mentioned at $799 are made by the #1 manufacturer of irons being played on the PGA tour. You can buy an OVERPRICED set of Nike forged blade irons for $899, and that is STILL less than MANY custom cues (and yes, you can order from the manufacturer with your own "custom" specs for the same price (custom loft, lie, length, etc.), unless you want more expensive shafts or grips). However, you can order pretty nice irons, that aren't made by a big name brand for considerably cheaper. While it may be like this to some degree with pool cues, I still see relatively unknown cue-makers charging pretty substantial amounts of money for their cues. While they may be quality cues, I don't think that they have earned the right to come out of the gate charging what they charge.

BLACKHEART
08-28-2002, 07:50 PM
JimmytheD, I"m not sure where you think I fit into your train of thought about Qmakers. Did you think that my quote was high or that maybe I was one of those upstarts, that haven't earned the right to charge a fair price for my Qs. I have been making Qs since 1986 &amp; most would think that the Q I described is more than fair, for the price...JER

rackmup
08-29-2002, 05:53 AM
Although not designed and employed for this purpose, I believe you can take your cue to the airport and have it analyzed by one of the Airport Security Screeners to determine if it is a true "custom" cue.

During a recent inquiry about a flight to Arizona, I asked if I could bring my "custom" (I used this term hoping to sway them into letting me carry my Schon LTD on board) cues on board and they said "No custom cues or any other type of pool cue can be brought inside the cabin."

This indicates to me they are trained to be able to tell a mass-produced cue from a custom cue.

Regards,

Ken (they did say I am now allowed to bring my custom nail clippers on board)

08-29-2002, 10:36 AM
To be quite honest, I don't know where you fit into my train of thought. I haven't been around pool much for the past 6 years or so, and played mostly on the west coast. This isn't meant to be an insult, but 6 years ago or so when I was playing all the time, I don't recall ever hearing of your cues. However, I admit that a lot of cues are generally more popular in a geographic area that is closer to where the cues are made. As an example, even with the popularity of Tad cues, you see more of them in California than you do in Michigan. So, depending on where you are located, that could be the reason I have never seen any of your cues. My previous comments weren't aimed directly at you. My point was simply that, just because someone has a lathe and some ivory doesn't mean they can come out charging $1000 for a cue, even if it is quality work, and there are many, relatively unknown, cue-makers out there doing just that.