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Sid_Vicious
07-23-2010, 02:04 PM
I was watching a movie last night about world banks about a giant world bank inner mingled into global wars and generally mahem. There was a statement made that impressed me during the last part of the movie when the star(good guy) seriously asked one of the banks under cover launderer's how he could promote such a bad thing since it was so catastropic to everything and everybody except for the banks, and we are talking about MADE UP wars here! The old guy casually stated than it was the debt from these actions, and the key was, THOSE who controlled the debts, which was actually the prime reason of gain and power. If you think about it, we did the same thing with Fred and Fannie, along with giving college kids CCs like candy while knowing they'd soon just be making the minimum payments and stacking huge debts...be it any of these things, or an Iraq war, even a less than monitored oil spill after the fact...that debt comment in that move make me understand a lot about some of the nonsense of events since 911 until now. If you are like me, it's always been frustrating to watch the logical being avoided in real life, world events. Well, it kinda all comes together because of the debt statements made in a movie of fiction. Saddest part is that there's almost no way to correct this, because when shit does hit the financial institution's fans holding the debt,,,we bail them out. It is lose-lose for all, except for the banks and controllers of the debt. You and I will never win, unless we can sneak between the gaps in the stock market to play the dips, but that takes being very reverse-tactful in understanding. You have to understand that the market behavior isn't as it once was,,,it's a debt dominated atmosphere, very "muddy for the common investor's minds." Sure you see spikes on earnings, certain on failed products. Those understanding the big boys and the debt handlers are really the baseline on wealth. jm2c...sid

Deeman3
07-23-2010, 02:44 PM
Sid,

Aside form a few things, perhaps gold, guns and food, there is no protection from what you have said. Even in that, it is mostly a fools comfort as in the distant past, most economic issues were local and the world population was not as out of control. Those who think changing the gas supply, the food systems that have, unfortunately allowed this unfettered growth are not really prepared, as most of us are not, to see millions starving in the streets, mass killing to protect the feeble power of the state in a state of anarchy.

In the end, with people reverting to animal nature and instincts, all these discussions on fairness and equity of humanity will be forgotten very quickly and even those of us who think we are prepared will only last a bit longer than the "victims" waiting for someone is chopper to swoop down and rescue them. Sustainability is a joke. While we pretend that we can house and feed 4 billion people, we are still manufacturing them and teaching them that "we' need them, we will care for them, we have their best interest at heart.

"We" will be running down the same streets with the rest of them, albeit, a little better armed for a whirt while.

Otherwise, about half those "people living on the edge" will have to agree to jump off.

Sid_Vicious
07-23-2010, 06:53 PM
Do we live it up while times are still relatively good? I've generally looked at the great depression in it's building back in 1910, as a parallel, and there ain't that much difference overall in the basics of the lead up to the big event back then in the 20s. Everything we should have learned from that era, seemingly is lost due to big money greed and loss of sensibility with those who are REALLY om charge. Those in charge, IMO, ain't an American president, nor the Bushs, Rockefellers or Saudi elites.

If it is coming to a second depression, no stopping it, how does that dictate the best actions from our measly parts for ourselves during the lead up? Something to chew on when you allow yourself to accept the inevitable. If you keep on doing the same, day in and day out, working for the man, saving in 401Ks, dragging your butt to the job like an anchor around the neck...doesn't that sound a bit depressing for when all shit hits the fan? maybe it's time to simply lay back and party out asses off, with some bit of conservativeness, yet not enough to lose the opportunity we each have to enjoy what part of the American dream we can actually get to today. Wouldn't it make being miserable in a full blown depression even worse to realize that we wasted the chances to enjoy things in these better times, instead of saving and over working for "the man" just to end up in an expected, dismal place when the shoe actually falls? I think so.

But, there was money made during the last depression, books are written on making money in hard times. That really doesn't offer much for that first half living on the edge, cuz those logically the wealth sector who doesn't or can't do better than live week to week as it is already. To capitalize and make money off of bad times, means you really need to be in the second half living on the edge, who has old or new money, or assets, be it silver-spoon money, gold or whatever. Now we are talking about those more fortunate than the 1st group who has already jumped. Some of those, being complacent, never worked a real job, somewhat stupid, will probably suffer the most, mentally and physically, because they are just waiting for bewilderment. Like Lindsey in that jail cell, these people will crater when it all hits them. Sounds terrible, doesn't it.

It could be the best time to lay back, take a drink, a toke, a cigarette, a day off of work, most anything we've put off due to understood seriousness in life until now, and enjoy. Sid

Deeman3
07-24-2010, 07:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do we live it up while times are still relatively good? I've generally looked at the great depression in it's building back in 1910, as a parallel, and there ain't that much difference overall in the basics of the lead up to the big event back then in the 20s. Everything we should have learned from that era, seemingly is lost due to big money greed and loss of sensibility with those who are REALLY om charge. Those in charge, IMO, ain't an American president, nor the Bushs, Rockefellers or Saudi elites.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well, first, the great depression was in the late 1920's through the end of the 1930's. There are some very similar things going on now but it is always exuberance that gets us in a position for a fall. Problem is, we need personal frugality but to sustain the large population and an ever growing economy, we need people to spend beyond their means, even the government somewhat, but not to the extent they are now. The returns are just too little in jobs and market growth. It does seem counterproductive to think tax cuts stimulated spending but it is the very folks who can and couild spend that excessive taxes slow down. For instance, it is popular to call Bush's tax cuts, "Tax breaks for the wealthy". However, two thirds of business fall into that category and if they don't spend and build business, we don't grow. You are correct, except for monetary policy and deficit spending, the President has little to dowith the economy. Right now, faith in the dollar and businesses waiting to expand just happens to be a pretty big part of the pie. </span>

If it is coming to a second depression, no stopping it, how does that dictate the best actions from our measly parts for ourselves during the lead up? Something to chew on when you allow yourself to accept the inevitable. If you keep on doing the same, day in and day out, working for the man, saving in 401Ks, dragging your butt to the job like an anchor around the neck...doesn't that sound a bit depressing for when all shit hits the fan? maybe it's time to simply lay back and party out asses off, with some bit of conservativeness, yet not enough to lose the opportunity we each have to enjoy what part of the American dream we can actually get to today. Wouldn't it make being miserable in a full blown depression even worse to realize that we wasted the chances to enjoy things in these better times, instead of saving and over working for "the man" just to end up in an expected, dismal place when the shoe actually falls? I think so.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> It is the lay back and party with everyone else that can cause us to become completely dependent on the government for our subsistence, not a pleasant thought unless that is all you have ever known. Those with 401K will probably lose almost everything, I have a substancial amount in those type accounts but am not sure what esle to do with them for tax reasons, etc. However, I have a lot of diversity in metals and property. Will I go under? Perhaps but I will be one of the later ones but still stand to lose a lot of paper money like everyone. I always look at things like my age and how much I have been blessed with in case it does all come down. At 58. I don't have that long to worry about it most likely. My goal is to help protect my kids and grandkids. They are in pretty good shape and have options that most other families do not by virtue of their international lifestyle and property in other places. Almost 10 years ago, I gave them what I had in Europe and will soon give them property in South America as it could benefit them but, in my case, probably never me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

But, there was money made during the last depression, books are written on making money in hard times. That really doesn't offer much for that first half living on the edge, cuz those logically the wealth sector who doesn't or can't do better than live week to week as it is already. To capitalize and make money off of bad times, means you really need to be in the second half living on the edge, who has old or new money, or assets, be it silver-spoon money, gold or whatever. Now we are talking about those more fortunate than the 1st group who has already jumped. Some of those, being complacent, never worked a real job, somewhat stupid, will probably suffer the most, mentally and physically, because they are just waiting for bewilderment. Like Lindsey in that jail cell, these people will crater when it all hits them. Sounds terrible, doesn't it.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well, I guess it could be terrible but in a way, but most don't know the impact of a collapse or want to know. I almost became a survivalist and probably have a years worth of d=food for my wife and I as well, as you very well know, enough fire power to pretend to protect it. However, I have lived a great life, been blessed with the most stable period in human history and do i really want to sit in my house and shoot kids as they come beggin for food? No. At this point inmy life I'd much rather give a chance to a younger family and just enjoy the blessing God has given a poor guy like me. I fit all coms apart, the dead in many ways may be the lucky ones. I still have faith that a good and decent society could emerge one day and that hope makes me a little less hateful and a lot less angry. If your definition of humanity is saving a few white kids to tear at scraps of food and somehow, perpetuating one race or one group, you'd probably not be deserving of a place at the table anyway.

Perfect solution, for the planet anyway, is a large plague or other event that reduced the population by 90%. Not pretty, certainly, but if you are willing to say, "I don't particularily care if I am among that 10%" We might could start over. The best would be a mixed race that had a little of all of us and not enough difference to make race an issue, the power class an issue and start the whole thing over. Now, how is that for a solution? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</span>

It could be the best time to lay back, take a drink, a toke, a cigarette, a day off of work, most anything we've put off due to understood seriousness in life until now, and enjoy. Sid
</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Sid, honestly, that is the most profound and thoughful thing I have ever heard you say. Let's you and I, the old farts, enjoy what we have left and hope and pray that the kids in the future have it even a fraction of how good we have. God has blessed me on my worst day on this earth. Every day is a gift and life is certainly much too short for hate, envy and what it might be tomorrow.

You'll be fine. You are a good man and will get along well. I look forward to having that last smoke with you buddy! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

Chopstick
07-24-2010, 12:46 PM
Sounds like you are starting to catch on Sydney. The reason we never learn our lesson is because the financial system is run by a bunch of over-educated idiots. The economy is like the environment. There are plenty of people that will talk all day about how much they know about it but they actually know almost nothing. They are both infinitely complex. They both have natural cycles and the worst thing you can do is mess with them.

"Everything that happens in the market has happened before, and it will happen again."

The big thing that is changing everything now is computers. Debt is not real money anymore. It is just information. The Fed creates money out of thin air by updating a field on a screen. It is completely detached from reality. Flash trading computers, like giant leeches siphon billions out of world markets and governments turn a blind eye.

How is it that we pass a financial reform bill that exempts the organizations that caused the problem? Obama says the big banking institutions can no longer have prop trading desks. So, what did the banks do? Fire all those big money makers? Nope. They changed their job titles and put them into a different money pool to trade with. The prop traders are no longer trading with the banks capital. They put them into the client pools. They are trading with your money now and the bank is keeping all profits. Fannie and Freddie, the creators of over 90% of all the bad paper in existence are totally exempt from the new law. Obama also nationalized them. All those bad mortgages are now backed by the full faith and credit of your, and future generations tax dollars.

It all goes back to the Fed and the international banking system. They are not going to take a loss. Why do think they want open borders? More citizens, more taxes. They could care less what overpopulation does to the quality of life.

Deeman3
07-26-2010, 07:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How is it that we pass a financial reform bill that exempts the organizations that caused the problem? Obama says the big banking institutions can no longer have prop trading desks. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Follow the contributions to Obama's campaign, then look and seewho was protected in the bill. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

LWW
07-26-2010, 08:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How is it that we pass a financial reform bill that exempts the organizations that caused the problem? Obama says the big banking institutions can no longer have prop trading desks. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Follow the contributions to Obama's campaign, then look and seewho was protected in the bill. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span> </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 26pt'><u>****DING-DING-DING-DING****</u></span>

LWW

hondo
07-26-2010, 04:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How is it that we pass a financial reform bill that exempts the organizations that caused the problem? Obama says the big banking institutions can no longer have prop trading desks. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Follow the contributions to Obama's campaign, then look and seewho was protected in the bill. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span> </div></div>

Yep. I imagine you're right.