View Full Version : Religious Freedom May Not Count For Muslims

07-27-2010, 04:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey, currently running third in the state's Republican gubernatorial primary race, says he's not sure if Constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion apply to the followers of the world's second-largest faith, Islam.

At a recent event in Hamilton County, Ramsey was asked by a man in the audience about the "threat that's invading our country from the Muslims." Ramsey proclaimed his support for the Constitution and the whole "Congress shall make no law" thing when it comes to religion. But he also said that Islam, arguably, is less a faith than it is a "cult."

"<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Now, you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion,</span> or is it a nationality, way of life, cult whatever you want to call it," Ramsey said. "Now certainly we do protect our religions, but at the same time this is something we are going to have to face.</div></div>

Another moronic TP candidate. link (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/tennessee-lt-gov-religious-freedom-doesnt-count-if-youre-muslim-video.php)


07-27-2010, 04:28 AM
How lame was that?

Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Jainism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Paganism, and followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster have a constitutional right to peacefully practice their religion.

None have a protected right to commit murder and mayhem, crash planes into buildings, strap bombs to their children and send them onto city buses, operate car bombs, slaughter Jews/Infidels/Crusaders, throw acid in women's faces, or any of the other atrocities against humanity committed by radical Islam in the name of Allah and his prophet.

Just remember ... look up more often.


07-27-2010, 07:19 AM
Its a cult. Period.

07-27-2010, 12:00 PM
While I disagree with this guy, it seems like the definition of the occult in religious terms has so many definitions it is impossible to use accurately.


07-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Maybe a good place to insert my thoughts about my dinner with a couple on Saturday evening without Hondo having to read all of it.

I was supposed to have dinner with a friend who was to meet and escort a Muslim couple to their new home in Florida. I do not know the exact what and how of all this as my friend missed a flight and I volunteered to host them for a meal until he could show up. He never did and I put them on a flight to Atlanta where he would meet them and take them to their eventual destination, Orlando.

He spoke German and she spoke both a little German and a little English. They were very new to America and had spent the last 24 months in Frankfurt Am Main (where I had lived for 6 years) in Germany, before that he had lived in London her in Pakistan. The most obvious thing about them was, of course, her dress, full on Burka and while he wore an inexpensive business suit and tie. It was obvious that she was very self-conscience and apprehensive about talking about anything other than causal conversation. One other thing I noticed was her constant looking to her husband as if seeking approval before saying even the most innocuous things. He was probably 30 or a bit older. I had absolutely no idea her age from outward appearances but he said she was 23 when I asked. He had degrees from two European Universities in business and industrial agriculture. She had almost no formal education outside primary girl’s school in her home country of Pakistan. His parents were small business people in Pakistan but they had originally come from Turkey in the 1980’s.

At first he was reluctant to discuss politics but seemed to get a little more at ease as the evening went on, after our meal. We ended up sitting in the terminal for about 3 hours until their flight was called. I may have seemed like an intelligence officer, I thought afterward, and now feel I was fortunate that they discussed anything at all. We had a long exchange but I won’t make this terribly long so that Hondo does not struggle too much with his reading length challenge.  I’ll cover the things that stood out to me and anything else that just told me more about them that I might not have guessed.

They are both faithful Muslims by their description, really his mostly. She would defer to his answering all questions unless I pressed her or her had some trouble understanding my question, which happened a lot. I did ask a couple of questions of her that I won’t discuss right here.

He said they don’t hate Americans but did say they really believe that the American government Bush, Obama, etc. are out to destroy the Muslim faith. They see it more as a cultural assault than even a military attack. One of the few direct answers I got from her was on why we see the Burka as a hardship on their women. While she would not use a term like breasts, she made it clear that it would be the same as someone insisting that my wife bare her body to strangers. It sort of made sense when I thought of it that way. It was HER embarrassment as much as her husband’s to be seen naked or not covered and that even extends to her shape showing through her clothes.

IN a way, they resent Obama more than Bush as he is, by their thinking a Muslim who rejected Islam. He said that, in effect, the West was forcing their values in Islam, that promoting homosexuality, sex out side of marriage was a strategy by the West, as he saw it, to degrade their culture and history. I did ask why it was o.k. for Muslims to drink and go to strip clubs but he said that those people were not true Muslims, like our preachers who “lay down with men” and molested children. Might be a good point.  I asked about the reports of men abusing women in Islam but again he said, that is a very big exception that most women are treated with the respect they deserve but did point out that Islamic Law in clear on how to handle those who flaunt themselves in the God’s eyes. The issue of the stoning of the woman came up and he said that three good Muslim men had to testify about the unfaithful woman and that, in his opinion, they would not lie in the eyes of God to do harm to a woman. I was not aware they had a need for three witnesses but his opinion that they were actually doing the offender a favor by stoning them did surprise me a bit. He says our justice system really contains no justice just long and drawn out punishment but never redemption of the offender in God’s eyes.

When I asked if he had ever considered a violent act in the man of Islam he said he was not called to do that. His faith was strong enough but his calling was different. He then made a little fun of us as he said that we go to war and then are surprised, for instance, when they behead a soldier or kill them on other ways. In essence he said, “It is war on the battlefield. It is not negotiations or talking that everyone came there for. That is for before or after war!”

His view of Jews was about what you hear from Mel Gibson but he did make sure I was not Jewish before he was frank with me about anything. He just wants them to go away, I guess like Helen Thomas does. He thinks that Iran wants Israel to attack them so they can drive them out of the Middle East and that all the true Muslim nations would then attack the Jews at the same time, the only way to defeat them once and for all. He thinks all the negotiations for land is not for the good of the Palestinians, just a method to an end. He is very doubtful of the Holocaust and hinted that it was staged. We discussed Buchenwald, as we had both been there but he still doubted the pictures, accounts and even movies as doctored and part of the “Jewish Control” of history and the media. He used that term often. He didn’t seem wild eyed or particular in any sense to me but I think he probably held back some of his thoughts as he seemed to be measuring many responses.

As they walked from place to place, I had expected her to walk behind him, like the Japanese for some reason, as I remember that in my international travels especially with larger groups of Muslim men and women but he was helping her with luggage and seemed affectionate by comparison with other closed cultures.

No, there was much more conversation but I just decided to share some of the unusual with you. It almost seemed he enjoyed my interest in his faith and culture but not quite ready to really open up with me. By comparison, I was amazed at his forthrightness and relative ease of talking pretty intimately with an almost complete stranger. I did say, as they walked to the gate my normal, “Nice meeting you and I hope to talk to you more another time.” He said, “Really?” My friend called on Sunday night saying they really enjoyed our visit and would invite me to visit them when they got settled.

I know, no big deal but it was interesting to me. O.k if Hondo is just joining in now, for him, “And the bartender said, We don’t serve girls from West Virginia here!”

07-28-2010, 07:08 AM
I got through half of this before I nodded off.
Good post. I'll try again later.

07-28-2010, 07:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got through half of this before I nodded off.
Good post. I'll try again later. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Hondo,

Congratulatins on getting that far. As I promised, it was not earth shaking but had some revelations for me about Muslims, at least some Muslims.

I don't need the jump on the bandwagon of folks that do battle with you so I'll stop the questioning of your attention span. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

It seems that there is only you, from the left, still hanging around this site now. Has something gone on that I am not aware of and if it is just that all on the left abandoned the site, why are you still posting? I am posting far less and probably should quit altogether as there are pitifully few persons to argue with now.

I anyone runs across a site that has open discussion from both sides let me know. Don't point me the AZ as that is just too much a circus for me to wade through each time.

Take care and thanks to all for all the time I have enjoyed the discusions here. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</span>

07-28-2010, 06:29 PM
Dee, you do know I was kidding about the too long post.
It appears that Gayle is gone too.
The only reason I still hang around is because Steve is so easy.

I would never point you at AZ. There are like 2 libs on AZ who run the gauntlet every time they post. If they do let me back on, I'll strictly post about pool. No NPF for me.

I post on a music forum and a boxing forum and that's it.
Been enjoying retirement and hoping my wife doesn't toss me.

07-29-2010, 08:32 AM
Best to you. I did think you were kidding but had to rib you on it.

I'll find another place to post I am sure. Have fun with the time that is left for this forum.

Good luck.