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View Full Version : Conflicting Online Versions of BCA 8-Ball Rules



SpiderMan
08-10-2010, 11:49 AM
At the playbca.com web site, there is available for download a "complete rule book" at 8-BALL RULES #1 (http://playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx).

On page 7, the rules for foul on the break have been changed from ball-in-hand behind the head string to ball-in-hand anywhere on the table.

At the home.bca-pool website, the relevant rules download is 8-BALL RULES #2 (http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/EightBall_January2008.pdf).

On page 2 of this document, the penalty for foul on the break is still ball-in-hand behind the head string.

The playbca version of the rules is called 2010-2011 rules, while the home.bca-pool version is dated January 2008.

Is this just a case of one web site being extremely behind on updating its material, or are we seeing two separate "BCA" factions each creating their own version of "the rules"?

SpiderMan

BCA Master Instr
08-10-2010, 05:48 PM
Marty:

The BCA Trade Organization has it's own Rule Book from the WPA.
The BCAPL has it's own Rule Book.

Two different books....randyg

Sid_Vicious
08-10-2010, 11:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCA Master Instr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marty:

The BCA Trade Organization has it's own Rule Book from the WPA.
The BCAPL has it's own Rule Book.

Two different books....randyg</div></div>

So what's the rule on that foul going to be here in Dallas this fall within Doc's league? Behind the line or anywhere? Soounds like it is anywhere on the table to me, but like Spiderman, I am still confused with WPA and BCA and BCAPL...acronym city. sid

BCA Master Instr
08-11-2010, 06:23 AM
D.E.L is sanctioned by the BCAPL. Which is not the BCA or WPA.

We could play:APA-TAP-VNEA-ACS, they use their own rules....

SpiderMan
08-11-2010, 10:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCA Master Instr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">D.E.L is sanctioned by the BCAPL. Which is not the BCA or WPA.
</div></div>

Following up ... which web site, and which set of rules (2008 or 2010) is BCAPL?

And is the national 8-ball tourney we all attend each may BCA or BCAPL?

SpiderMan

Brian in VA
08-11-2010, 10:46 AM
2010 is the newest set of rules, Spidey! That little tournament in Vegas is BCAPL, too. So the new rule for scratching on the break is BIH anywhere, not necessarily in the kitchen.

Not sure where the World Standardized rules will come down on this one. I believe the BCAPL outlawed phenolic tips on break cues, too, didn't they?

Brian in VA

BCA Master Instr
08-11-2010, 10:52 AM
http://www.bca-pool.com is the Trade Show website.

http://www.playbca.com is the League website.

National Tournament is now BCAPL.........

SpiderMan
08-11-2010, 01:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCA Master Instr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">www.bca-pool.com is the Trade Show website.

http://www.playbca.com is the League website.

National Tournament is now BCAPL......... </div></div>

Interesting ... makes you wonder, why does a trade show organization have it's own set of "BCA rules", different from the ones that will be used by the leagues? Maybe they should just link to the up-to-date version at playbca?

SpiderMan

Fran Crimi
08-11-2010, 01:58 PM
Well, if you ask BCA Chairman Ivan Lee, he'll tell you that the BCA is more than just trade, although trade is it's backbone. They are the North American member in the World Pool-Billiard Association and have been paying $10,000 dues every year for the last 27 years so that the North American Players can compete in global events, such as World Championships and other internationally sanctioned events which are increasing in number every year.

There is a section of rules in the BCA rule book that are called World Standardized Rules, which were composed by a joint effort of all of the continents so that players who compete internationally can all play and practice by the same rules.

The BCA Pool League (BCAPL) is the league that was sold by the BCA several years ago (previously known as the BCA league), and the present owner kept the BCA part, but it is a privately owned organization with no relation to the BCA. That private league chooses to have it's own rules and it is not connected to the WPA global structure. However, CSI,(Cue Sports International) owned by the same owner has had events using World Standardized Rules, and in the past has qualified players for international play.

tatcat2000
08-11-2010, 02:25 PM
My standard disclaimer contains most of what you need to know regarding the situation...

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

<span style='font-size: 8pt'>* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. <u>The Official Rules of the BCAPL</u> is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.</span>

SpiderMan
08-11-2010, 03:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tatcat2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My standard disclaimer contains most of what you need to know regarding the situation...

The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.</div></div>

Hilarious /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

These "random" letters weren't chosen to imply a relationship?

SpiderMan

tatcat2000
08-11-2010, 03:59 PM
No, and Mr. Griffin does not generally engage in hilarious behavior. They were chosen to maintain familiarity. The rights to use the letters were negotiated during the purchase of the league system. No rational business person would have done otherwise. If, by "relationship" you intended to say "familiarity", then yes.

The simple fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of league players or prospective league players, neither now nor in the past when the sale was effected, have any idea of the purpose or functions of the Billiard Congress of America, so familiarity with them is of little value to a league. If you do not believe that, just take a random sample of league players, say 20 or so, in your local area, and ask them to describe what the function of the BCA is. I feel safe in predicting that less than 5 or six will be able to give you an accurate answer that takes in the true functions on the BCA. If it's an APA, TAP or VNEA league, I would boldly predict the numbers would be even lower.

tatcat2000
08-11-2010, 10:07 PM
Jeez, I can't even get my own post right. *groan*

Edit please..."functions of the Billiard Congress of America, so <u>knowledge of a relationship </u>with them is of little value to a leauge system..."

That was what I meant - my fingers were typing ahead of my brain. Sorry about that.

And by familiarity, I don't mean familiarity with the purpose of function of the BCA. I simply mean familiarity in the sense that a league already existed that used the letters BCA, and the new entity was essentially a continuation. Even in the old BCA league (pre-BCAPL), very few members knew why the BCA existed.

Sid_Vicious
08-12-2010, 11:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tatcat2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, and Mr. Griffin does not generally engage in hilarious behavior. They were chosen to maintain familiarity. The rights to use the letters were negotiated during the purchase of the league system. No rational business person would have done otherwise. If, by "relationship" you intended to say "familiarity", then yes.

The simple fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of league players or prospective league players, neither now nor in the past when the sale was effected, have any idea of the purpose or functions of the Billiard Congress of America, so familiarity with them is of little value to a league. If you do not believe that, just take a random sample of league players, say 20 or so, in your local area, and ask them to describe what the function of the BCA is. I feel safe in predicting that less than 5 or six will be able to give you an accurate answer that takes in the true functions on the BCA. If it's an APA, TAP or VNEA league, I would boldly predict the numbers would be even lower.</div></div>

"If you do not believe that, just take a random sample of league players, say 20 or so, in your local area, and ask them to describe what the function of the BCA is. I feel safe in predicting that less than 5 or six will be able to give you an accurate answer"

And the point is? If players can't relate to some definitive standards of authority, be it KNOWN or IMPLIED, them there isn't much use for an authority figure at all. IMO, you made my, and several other's, point. This ain't very conducive for recruitment to leagues with the flippy rule sets without much if any consistency. Seems to me as a downhill slide to rules at all. sid

BCA Master Instr
08-12-2010, 02:50 PM
I wonder if we surveyed the Retail sector, how many would explain the BCA.......

pooltchr
08-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Or maybe a couple of instructors....

Steve