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Pacifist
08-12-2010, 03:33 PM
Has anyone seen any scientific evidence of phenolic tips on break cues causing cracks in the cueball? If anyone has could you post a link or give me some contact information for whoever did the study. I find it a little disturbing that I can't seem to find any real proof to support the ban on phenolic tips for break cues. Am I really expected to take this one on faith? If I saw some real proof of damage I would of course stop all use of phenolic tips on my break cue. I currently only use a phenolic tip to practice my break. I find that by not chaulking that tip I am forced to hit closer to the center of the cueball or else I will miscue. Training this way with a phenolic tip has really improved my accuracy and contol on my break shot. I am ok with giving this training up if what I am doing is damaging the equipment I use, I would just like to see the proof.

cushioncrawler
08-12-2010, 08:18 PM
I allways thort that u didnt need to chalk a phenolik tip. Do some players chalk?????

Anyhow, ball meeting ball will surely allways rezult in more stressing (and hencely cracks) than tip meeting ball.
But i hav never seen a newish ball with any cracking of any sort.
But i hav seen very old balls with cracks or crazing.

Or iz the problem that phenolik givs more ball meeting ball stress, ie more qball speed.
Or iz the problem that phenolik abrades the qball more, or that the abrazion then leads to cracking.

I guess that its the vitreous that cracks, not the bakelite.
The solution iz simple. Get balls with no vitreous.
mac.

Pacifist
08-13-2010, 05:19 PM
Main Entry: 1vit·re·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈvi-trē-əs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, from vitrum glass
Date: 14th century
1 a : resembling glass (as in color, composition, brittleness, or luster) : glassy <vitreous rocks> b : characterized by low porosity and usually translucence due to the presence of a glassy phase <vitreous china>
2 : of, relating to, derived from, or consisting of glass
3 : of, relating to, or constituting the vitreous humor <vitreous surgery>

Thats the definition of vitreous. I believe they use that term in reference to the polished surface of the ball, I don't think it is a special coating on the ball just how they polish the phenolic resin the balls are made of.

I think problems would come from the tip contacting the cueball. The cue itself weighs more than the cueball and if the tip on the cue was made of a harder substance than the cueball I would imagine some chipping would occur.

Both the phenolic tip and the cueball are made of phenolic resins. I know the phenolic tip has fibers in it but I'm not sure if the cueballs do. Perhaps the resins are different or the fibers increse the hardness of the phenolic, either way I would like to see what data the BCA used to make the decision to ban phenolic tips. As a player who supports the BCA through leagues and tournaments I feel I have a right to see the evidence supporting a ban on the equipment I choose to use.

BCA Master Instr
08-14-2010, 06:41 AM
Write Bill Stock a letter.

cushioncrawler
08-14-2010, 10:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pacifist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Main Entry: 1vit·re·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈvi-trē-əs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, from vitrum glass
Date: 14th century
1 a : resembling glass (as in color, composition, brittleness, or luster) : glassy &lt;vitreous rocks&gt; b : characterized by low porosity and usually translucence due to the presence of a glassy phase &lt;vitreous china&gt;
2 : of, relating to, derived from, or consisting of glass
3 : of, relating to, or constituting the vitreous humor &lt;vitreous surgery&gt;

Thats the definition of vitreous. I believe they use that term in reference to the polished surface of the ball, I don't think it is a special coating on the ball just how they polish the phenolic resin the balls are made of.

I think problems would come from the tip contacting the cueball. The cue itself weighs more than the cueball and if the tip on the cue was made of a harder substance than the cueball I would imagine some chipping would occur.

Both the phenolic tip and the cueball are made of phenolic resins. I know the phenolic tip has fibers in it but I'm not sure if the cueballs do. Perhaps the resins are different or the fibers increse the hardness of the phenolic, either way I would like to see what data the BCA used to make the decision to ban phenolic tips. As a player who supports the BCA through leagues and tournaments I feel I have a right to see the evidence supporting a ban on the equipment I choose to use.
</div></div>Krappamith hav a vitreous surface layer (coating).
No, aktually i am wrong. Krappamiths are a vitreous ball, with a bakelite center.
If u draw a line of some sort on the ball, and hav a close look under a good light, u can see the depth of the vitreous, its about 0.5mm say.
Of course krappamith wont tell u what the vitreous iz or iznt.
They are happy to tell u that dumbsuck dezigned the krappamith, and they are happy to tell u how good their bakelite center iz, but they wont tell u what the vitreous iz or iznt. Not that this matters, krapp iz krapp, and krapp by any other name would smell az sweet.

Re collisions. The wt of the cue and ball iz irrelevant.
The kontakt time tween ball and ball iz much shorter than kontakt time tween ball and tip.
Hencely, the forces are greater and smaller.
And, it iz force that counts.
mac.

Icon of Sin
08-16-2010, 11:36 AM
Out of curiousity, I assume you like Brunswick Centennials?

You do know aramith and the cents are both made by the same parent company, Saluc?

Heath&lt;-----likes them both.

cushioncrawler
08-16-2010, 04:50 PM
I uze the 2-1/16" Tournament Champions, english billiards, on a 12' table.
I dont really know about 2-1/4" aramiths, nor cents.
But i assume that the modern ball iz lighter and softer, and vitreous -- and thusly plays trix, ie kix.
mac.

Sev
08-27-2010, 08:49 PM
Mac you kill me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

cushioncrawler
08-27-2010, 09:51 PM
Sev i hav balls, of all sorts and sizes, and materials.
1-7/8" 2" 2-1/16" 2-3/32" 2-1/8" 2-1/4" 2-7/16".
Vitreous (krappamith). Polyester. Melamine. Ivory. Cellulose. Bakelite.

But i havnt got a proper set of modern vitreous krappamith 2-1/4" pool balls (ie with a bakelite center) -- i just hav some spare cheap white qballs, probly chineze (possibly similar to krapps).
mac.