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Qtec
08-23-2010, 04:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Fareed Zakaria highlights further proof of the al Qaeda hatred of the Sufis with the July attack on a Lahore, Pakistan Sufi shrine during prayers, which killed 41 and injured 175 more. What gets lost in the amped-up "fear of the Other" rhetoric of Gingrich and Palin and driven by media like Fox News, is that this is not a battle of Islam vs. the US.

Why would al Qaeda attack a holy place at a time of prayer? Because it is a Sufi shrine, part of a sect that al Qaeda despises and regards as a deadly foe in the real battle it is fighting, the battle within Islam.

The Sufis are a sector of Islam originating in South Asia. They're all about mysticism, love, brotherhood and devotion, with very little attention to dogma. They believe in saints, shrines, music, dance, and follow a very liberal interpretation of the Koran.

Sufi poets routinely extol the virtues of wine and song, both forbidden in the purer versions of Islam. Sufism has always believed in tolerance towards other people and religion, and in peace. You can see why al Qaeda views it as its mortal enemy. The more Muslims accept some version of Sufi Islam, the more dangerous for al Qaeda and its extreme jihadist philosophy.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>It can't be said enough, with all the misinformation out there: Islam doesn't hate us. This is a battle between al Qaeda and everyone else that doesn't follow their own narrow vision of Islam, which includes other Muslims.</span><span style='font-size: 17pt'> <u>The opposition to the Cordoba House is exactly what al Qaeda wants to see.</u></span></div></div>

with video (http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/fareed-zakaria-gps-al-qaeda-vs-islam)

To oppose the Mosque/ cultural centre is to help Al Q achieve its aims.

Q

LWW
08-23-2010, 05:02 AM
A basic tenet of leftism is still being followed I see ... always blame the victim.

LWW

Gayle in MD
08-23-2010, 06:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Fareed Zakaria highlights further proof of the al Qaeda hatred of the Sufis with the July attack on a Lahore, Pakistan Sufi shrine during prayers, which killed 41 and injured 175 more. What gets lost in the amped-up "fear of the Other" rhetoric of Gingrich and Palin and driven by media like Fox News, is that this is not a battle of Islam vs. the US.

Why would al Qaeda attack a holy place at a time of prayer? Because it is a Sufi shrine, part of a sect that al Qaeda despises and regards as a deadly foe in the real battle it is fighting, the battle within Islam.

The Sufis are a sector of Islam originating in South Asia. They're all about mysticism, love, brotherhood and devotion, with very little attention to dogma. They believe in saints, shrines, music, dance, and follow a very liberal interpretation of the Koran.

Sufi poets routinely extol the virtues of wine and song, both forbidden in the purer versions of Islam. Sufism has always believed in tolerance towards other people and religion, and in peace. You can see why al Qaeda views it as its mortal enemy. The more Muslims accept some version of Sufi Islam, the more dangerous for al Qaeda and its extreme jihadist philosophy.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>It can't be said enough, with all the misinformation out there: Islam doesn't hate us. This is a battle between al Qaeda and everyone else that doesn't follow their own narrow vision of Islam, which includes other Muslims.</span><span style='font-size: 17pt'> <u>The opposition to the Cordoba House is exactly what al Qaeda wants to see.</u></span></div></div>

with video (http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/fareed-zakaria-gps-al-qaeda-vs-islam)

To oppose the Mosque/ cultural centre is to help Al Q achieve its aims.

Q </div></div>

One thing we can depend on, friend, is that the ignorant and misinformed, will continue to be used by the Republicans, as they fail to speak against their radical element, and seek to use demogogary and hatred, ignorance and fear mongering.

Do they even know that the Imam who is building the mosque in NYC has been a faithful ally of the United States, worked with the Bush Administration after 9/11, has a wife who works tirelessly to generate firm oposition among Muslims against al Q., our true enemy? Nope, they only know the lies on RW radio, and Fox Noise.

This is a clear case of Republicans doing what they always do, fomenting fear, hatred and anger over some completely illogical, unrelated incident, which in the end, hurts America, and foments more hatred in the world. It's their forte' as we have watched for decades.

Their hatred and ignorance is exactly what al Qaeda relies upon.

It's simple, yet it escapes them completely, since they have no ability to think in terms of principles.

McConnell really proved his gross ignorance on Meet The Press, calling this nothing more than a zoning issue. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This is about our Constitution. American principles. This is about the fact that America lacks enough intelligent and educated people among it's citizens, with the courage to stand against lies and hatred.

The radical hatred of the RW will hurt our campaign against al Qaeda, and their divisive rhetoric aids the cause of al Qaeda.

Republicans have failed to address the radical element of their party, and call them out, just as we expect the Muslim community to work against the damaging efforts of their own hate filled, ignorant, radicals.

In truth, there is very little difference between the dangers inherent in the exclusionary ideology of the radical right, which constantly singles out various groups to attack, with their own hatred, as they seek to eliminate the rights of those who are committed to equality, and they, too, fail to take a stand and against the demonizing written in the Christian Bible, which radical Christians use and twist, to commit murder against innocent people, just like Al Qaeda does.

One is as dangerous as the other, IMO.

G.

Qtec
08-23-2010, 06:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This is a clear case of Republicans doing what they always do, fomenting fear, hatred and anger over some completely illogical, unrelated incident, which in the end, hurts America, and foments more hatred in the world. It's their forte' as we have watched for decades.

Their hatred and ignorance is exactly what al Qaeda relies upon.</div></div>

Now, if only the blind could see that........!

Good post.

Q

Deeman3
08-23-2010, 08:14 AM
They can put it there. Just because you can do something is not a reason to do so. They would serve their purpose, if indeed, their purpose is healing by selecting a site not so close to the 9/11 memorial spot.

Given the choice, I support their right to do so. My hope is they will select not to do it and that act might show some of the families they are earnest in wanting to build bridges.

As I have said ealrier, if we were, indeed, a country of hateful people, there would have been many acts of revenge against Muslims in this country. We all know that it was not every Muslim and, therefore, most are able to live in more peace here than their home countries.

You know, if this was even some of the moderate muslim contries where this attacks occured and extreamist Jews were even mildly involved, they would not even be considering allowing a Jewish Temple being constructed near there. It says something wonderful about our country that we allow this but it would say much more about the intent of the Muslims if they decided to move it elsewhere.

bobroberts
08-23-2010, 10:06 AM
This was a no brainer 30 years ago. As far as i'm concerned they can take their mosque and go back to the Middle East with it.
If they had any compassion knowing how Americans feel they would never of brought this up to begin with. Their long term goal is to come multiply,get into politics and introduce sharia laws and eventually get away from the constitution.
Sure there are moderate Muslims now but the fanatics will threaten there women first and the men will follow and before long we will look like Syria or Iran.

Stretch
08-23-2010, 10:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobroberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was a no brainer 30 years ago. As far as i'm concerned they can take their mosque and go back to the Middle East with it.
If they had any compassion knowing how Americans feel they would never of brought this up to begin with. Their long term goal is to come multiply,get into politics and introduce sharia laws and eventually get away from the constitution.
Sure there are moderate Muslims now but the fanatics will threaten there women first and the men will follow and before long we will look like Syria or Iran. </div></div>

WOW! That's the most rediculous statement yet. Does anyone but your white supremist buddies actually believe this scenerio? St.

Gayle in MD
08-23-2010, 11:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobroberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was a no brainer 30 years ago. As far as i'm concerned they can take their mosque and go back to the Middle East with it.
If they had any compassion knowing how Americans feel they would never of brought this up to begin with. Their long term goal is to come multiply,get into politics and introduce sharia laws and eventually get away from the constitution.
Sure there are moderate Muslims now but the fanatics will threaten there women first and the men will follow and before long we will look like Syria or Iran. </div></div>

WOW! That's the most rediculous statement yet. Does anyone but your white supremist buddies actually believe this scenerio? St. </div></div>

Stunning, isn't it? Just goes to show the power of hate mongering which our own radicals insist on spewing.

I'd just love to accompany some of our own hate mongers through Arlington National Cematory, and give them a tour of all the Muslim/American graves.

Interesting how often those who do not respect a strict adherance to our own Separation of Chruch and State, here, yet those same people do not see the link between the theocracies in the Middle East, and the disastrous results of inhumanity. Yet, at the same time, they denounce allowing Muslim/Americans equal rights of religion.

Do any of those who condemn the location of the Mosque, realize that Muslim/Americans pray, inside the Pentagon, daily?

Do they know of the goal of religious understanding, and peace, and dedication to stand against radical Islamists, to which this Imam, and his wife, have been devoted for many years?

Even George Bush, stated over and over again, we are not at war with Islam. Too bad there are so many grown ups, here in America, who do not understand the difference between automatic emotional responses, and the ability to think in terms of principles.

They compare our President to Hitler, yet they think like Hitler, themselves.

BTW, hats off to Bloomberg, for taking the honorable and correct stand, and adhering to the principles upon which our great nation was founded. This situation brings to mind the thoughts of another great leader, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."

G.

Chopstick
08-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Religious freedom is a right. Building a building for whatever purpose, is not. You can drive a car with your feet. That doesn't make it a good idea. There was a guy down in Pompano Beach, on the north side of Ft. Lauderdale, had a 15 foot concrete sculpture erected in his front yard. It was a hand shooting the bird facing the road. The neighborhood considered it offensive and they made him move it. He moved it into his backyard which happens to be on the inter-coastal waterway. So now he's shooting the bird at all the yachts that go by, which no one seems to mind because they all do it anyway. I heard the story in the news. They never said what he did with it. I saw it when I went fishing down there a few years ago.

These people openly admit they want that building because the landing gear of one of the 9/11 planes crashed through the roof of that building. Building a mosque on that site is insulting to all Americans, no different than if they built a giant bird finger there. They may have a right to religious freedom but we have a right to honor our dead.

bobroberts
08-23-2010, 01:38 PM
Actually it was the owner of Hustler magazine.Forgot his name. The city made him remove it.

Gayle in MD
08-23-2010, 02:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They can put it there. Just because you can do something is not a reason to do so. They would serve their purpose, if indeed, their purpose is healing by selecting a site not so close to the 9/11 memorial spot.

Given the choice, I support their right to do so. My hope is they will select not to do it and that act might show some of the families they are earnest in wanting to build bridges.

As I have said ealrier, if we were, indeed, a country of hateful people, there would have been many acts of revenge against Muslims in this country. We all know that it was not every Muslim and, therefore, most are able to live in more peace here than their home countries.

You know, if this was even some of the moderate muslim contries where this attacks occured and extreamist Jews were even mildly involved, they would not even be considering allowing a Jewish Temple being constructed near there. It says something wonderful about our country that we allow this but it would say much more about the intent of the Muslims if they decided to move it elsewhere. </div></div>

Deeman,
It's my understanding that the Imam, and his wife, have been two of the most high profile objectors against radical Islamists.

The man is currently on a mission on behalf of the United States, and has served, both under President Obama, and President Bush, as a roving ambassador on behalf of our country, and against those who seek to radicalize his religion.
I know of no instance where he has spoken against the same values which most Americans embrace.

Even Ted Olsen, former solicitor General, under Bush, who lost his lovely wife on 9/11, in the plane which crashed into the Pentagon, has spoken against those who seek to paint the intentions of this Imam, and his selection of the building, as a symbol of hate, when it is not the intentions of the many Islamist/Americans, who wish to join in his stated purpose of building of a mosque, dedicated to building religious understanding, and fighting against radical Islam, within his religion.

The building, was partly chosen as hallowed ground because his stated mission is to build religious understanding, and to honor those Americans lost on 9/11, not as a punch in America's face.

Do you think that spreading hatred, and suspicion, against all Muslims is the best path for America? Do you not think that to do so is to give al Qaeda exactly the propaganda which they try to use in order to call more to their sick and cowardly cause?

Can we not fight the radical Islamists, without condemnation of all Islamists?

Do we really want to be on the side of radicalism?

We do have "Christian" fundamentalists right here in this country, who praise those same kinds of cowards who commit murder, in the name of their God, yet right on this forum, some here allow that kind of dangerous hate speak to fly without speaking up against it.

My point, is that all religions include divisive, hateful rhetoric. There is surely plenty of it in the Bible. Fundamentalism is radical in and of itself, regardless of which country allows it to exist, and plenty of it exists right here, among many of our religions.

I've always thought it is up to those practitioners, within each religion, to work to remove any justification within their religion for inhumane, demonizing, and divisive actions, among themselves, against any of their flock who spread hate against any, or commit muder, and justifying it by using God's name.

That is just what this man is all about, and what he intends to promote, unlike the hate speak of many of the well known American clergy, like Falwell, and Graham's son, both of whom we have heard, spreading fear and divisive hate-speak all over our own country.

As I say, Americans need to visit Arlington Cematary, and see for themselves the many Muslim/American graves, and understand that the Muslim religion, has it's moderate, honorable practitioners, just as any other religion has. And that there are many Muslim American who love this country just as much as we do.

Hate is the enemy, not the correct route. America is strong enough to fight radical Islam, withhout giving up our long cherished principles.

IMO, this is nothing more than a political wedge grown by the right, the same kind which the same RW nutjobs who try to promote the lie that our President is a Muslim, or that he is not an American, for political pusposes, just as they write praise for cowardly "Christian" murderers, to justify going against everything which our Constitution stands for, personal freedom, while professing to embrace it, and they are a far more dangerous element in our society, than moderate Muslims, because they actively seek to destroy the principles insured in our own Constitution, turn us against one another, and all for their twisted and sick vesion of right and wrong.

In the final analysis, Hate is the enemy, always. What is practiced in the Middle East, should not be the measure for what Americans subscribe and commit to doing.


G.

Sev
08-23-2010, 02:50 PM
Perhap. Perhaps not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awISCKJzVtE&feature=player_embedded

Deeman3
08-23-2010, 02:51 PM
Still, I defend thier right to build the thing but think they might be better served to do it in another place. None of us know how this will turn out. It is, aside from two things; the feelings of the famnilies of 9/11 and the rights of the Muslims to build it, an issue of little importance. I wish I was wise enough to know the "right thing to do" but I don't.

Again, they have the right but is it a good idea to push it in the face of the opposition of the families. There are some moderate Muslim groups that oppose them building it as well.

Gayle in MD
08-23-2010, 03:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still, I defend thier right to build the thing but think they might be better served to do it in another place. None of us know how this will turn out. It is, aside from two things; the feelings of the famnilies of 9/11 and the rights of the Muslims to build it, an issue of little importance. I wish I was wise enough to know the "right thing to do" but I don't.

Again, they have the right but is it a good idea to push it in the face of the opposition of the families. There are some moderate Muslim groups that oppose them building it as well. </div></div>

Yes, and there are some families who oppose forbidding the building of the mosque, who believe that we must adhere to the principles upon which our country was founded, equal rights under the law, and religious freedom for all.

I think that any time someone's equal rights are question on the basis of public opinion, we are going in the wrong direction.

I think that any time we chose hatred, over acceptance and inclusion, we lose.

The intent in building there, is to honor those lost, and build a bridge between Muslims and Christians, not to poke a finger in the eyes of the survivors.

G.

Deeman3
08-23-2010, 03:22 PM
Of course, we don't know the full intent of those who want to build at Ground Zero but to show I am not a hater of Muslims, I'll side with anything this young lady says, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif



One of the United States’ most visible Muslim-Americans has taken sides in the debate on whether to build a 13-story community center and mosque near the site of the former World Trade Center in New York City. Lebanese-born, New York-raised Miss USA Rima Fakih said she is against the plan.

Following President Obama’s comment in favor of the proposed mosque project last week, Fakih was asked her thoughts on the hot national debate by a reporter for “Inside Edition.”

“I totally agree with President Obama with the statement on constitutional rights of freedom of religion,” Fakih, 24, said from Las Vegas, where she is scheduled to represent the USA at the Miss Universe pageant tonight.

However, she added: “I also agree that it shouldn’t be so close to the World Trade Center. We should be more concerned with the tragedy than religion.”

In New York City, sides have been divided — with tempers occasionally flaring — over the proposed mosque and community center, which would be located just two blocks north of the site of the worst domestic terror attack in the nation’s history.

While New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg and a variety of religious organizations have backed the mosque plan, President Obama weighing in on the issue has stirred the debate nationally.

A recent Time magazine poll showed 61 percent of those polled were against a mosque being erected near ground zero. The poll also famously had 24 percent of respondents believing the president himself is Muslim.

While Miss USA Fakih disagrees with the president on the issue, she’s made it clear she is nonetheless a big Obama fan. She showed off a gold lame costume depicting the golden eagle on the presidential seal that she plans to wear at the Miss Universe competition tonight.

“The symbolism of this costume is a tribute to your work to bring peace to the world,” Fakih said in a promotional video for the Miss Universe pageant.

Sev
08-23-2010, 03:30 PM
While I agree that they have the right to do with the proper as they choose if within the codes and zoning laws they should also take into account the opinion of the citizens of NYC.

This has turned into a lightning rod.

Communities decide all the time about what they are willing to have built in their neighborhoods.

This concerns the people of NYC. They will decide what they want in their community.

Gayle in MD
08-23-2010, 03:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We should be more concerned with the tragedy than religion.”
</div></div>

A very narrow view, given the fact that the radicalization of the Islamist religion, by a small percentage of Islamists, given there are over a billion of them, had everything to do with 9/11, and the war we are now fighting against radical Islamists.

What I can assure you is that if the people behind the mosque decide to move the location, the radical RW will continue to demonize all Muslims, regardless.

And, BTW, I think that former Solicitor General, Ted Olsen, who lost his own wife on 9/11, would have a far more intelligent view behind his opinion on the subject, than a twenty-something beauty queen.

G.

Sev
08-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Tell us Gayle.
How many people from MD died on 9/11???

LWW
08-23-2010, 03:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would have a far more intelligent view behind his opinion on the subject, than a twenty-something beauty queen.

G. </div></div>

Unless she agreed with the far left agenda ... then she would be a courageous young woman speaking truth to power.

LWW