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LWW
08-30-2010, 05:11 AM
After hundreds of millions put their money into the SS system, and it fails, causing them at a bare minimum to face a negative return on investment combined with an extended retirement age and payments slashed from what they had been promised, would you feel sympathy for them?

Would you laugh at them?

Would you help them?

What would you say to them?

How will you explain to them that your right to early retirement and a return of many times what you paid in was greater than their right to be treated fairly?

What will you tell them when they figure out that your generation inherited the cumulative wealth of many generations of Americans who struggled to ensure that the next generation lived better ... and that your generation squandered it all?

Will you be proud?

Will you hide from the truth and blame those in the gubmint who gave you what you wanted?

Will you even care?

LWW

Qtec
08-30-2010, 05:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After hundreds of millions put their money into the SS system, and it fails, </div></div>

Who says its going fail?

The difference between the US Govt and private enterprise is that the Govt always pays. It has never failed to pay its debts. It will honour its debt to SS, it has to.

How many people paid in to their employer's scheme and got shafted when they went bust? Or when the hedge fund went bust? Or there was massive fraud and the money disappeared?

Q

pooltchr
08-30-2010, 06:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The difference between the US Govt and private enterprise is that the Govt always pays. It has never failed to pay its debts. It will honour its debt to SS, it has to.


Q


</div></div>

Yes, but the question is, what will they use to pay for it? The government has no money. The government does not produce anything, so they have no income, other than what they take from the taxpayers, or borrow from some other government, who also doesn't have any money of their own.
Oh, there is a third option. Since they control the treasure, they can always just print up some more money. Of coures, the more they print, the less value it has.

One of the most difficult things to understand for some people is that the government is not a bottomless pit of money. In fact, the government has nothing! They can't pay anything, unless the take it from somebody first.

Steve

Qtec
08-30-2010, 07:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, but the question is, what will they use to pay for it? The government has no money. </div></div>

The Govt has an income that it gets from taxes.

How much money does the Pentagon make? The US spends as much as the rest of the world [ almost] on defence. Cut the defence budget by half for 3 years and the US is again in profit.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/adc63976335c241e1e1a089580f071bd.png



or this link (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm)

For the most of Americans, their Govt pension is the one thing they can rely on. Why should people be against something that is in their own interest? This is HC all over again.
Q

http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/us_vs_world.gif

Be afraid.

pooltchr
08-30-2010, 07:26 AM
Q. Try using common sense for a change. Anything the government spends, it has first taken from the taxpayers. The more they spend, the more they have to have taken from the taxpayers.

Our economy doesn't function due to government spending. It functions because of private business producing a product that can be sold. If our government is outspending the rest of the world, it is only because they are taking more from the economy in the first place.

It ain't brain surgery, if you stop and really think about it.

Steve

Deeman3
08-30-2010, 07:57 AM
Q,

You make a very good point. There are many here in this country even some of us on the right who feel we spend way too much on the military and projecting our power around the world.

However, even the most left of American governments keep doing it. This would be a good area to start but not even Obama will willing to take on the task. Too much in political contributions and too many lobbiests. We are still protecting Germany, Japan and many other countries. This is a big waste of my money and our countrie's resources.

pooltchr
08-30-2010, 08:22 AM
And we do manage to waste an awful lot of tax money!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100829/ap_on_bi_ge/ml_iraq_us_reconstruction_legacy

Steve

Chopstick
08-30-2010, 08:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How many people paid in to their employer's scheme and got shafted when they went bust? </div></div>

Every adult member on my family going back two generations. MT grandfather worked for a company twenty years, lost his pension and had to go back to work for another twenty years to get another pension.

No problem from me about cutting Pentagon spending. If it were up to me, all foreign military bases would be closed and all our soldiers would be home guarding our own borders like they are supposed to.

Deeman3
08-30-2010, 09:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chopstick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Qtec]

No problem from me about cutting Pentagon spending. If it were up to me, all foreign military bases would be closed and all our soldiers would be home guarding our own borders like they are supposed to. </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Is it not funny that we have no problem guarding a dozen other countrie's borders but file lawsuits when a state suggests we guard our own? Someone must want the hispanic vote pretty bad to seel out the border states so cheaply.</span>

bobroberts
08-30-2010, 09:36 AM
What you guys fail to realize if they cut defense, there would be repercussion's from thousands being unemployed and towns that rely on our bases would fail. For every ying there is a yang, That's why balancing the economy is so hard.
In theory cutting defense sounds great but in practicality it doesn't work.

LWW
08-30-2010, 03:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After hundreds of millions put their money into the SS system, and it fails, </div></div>

Who says its going fail?
Q


</div></div>

It already has.

The gubmint is like the guy who makes $100K per year and has a $400K mortgage on a $350K house, a $50K car loan on a ride worth $40K, 6 credit cards that are all over the limit, $8.37 in the checking, no savings, and a 401K with $1.2K in it ... but since he just received another $10K credit card in the mail he convinces himself he's still solvent.

SSI already has slightly cut monthly payments, extended retirement age, and is running in the red. Payments are being made now with borrowed money. The SSI "TRUST FUND" was a criminal scheme.

LWW

LWW
08-30-2010, 03:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The difference between the US Govt and private enterprise is that the Govt always pays. It has never failed to pay its debts. It will honour its debt to SS, it has to.

Q


</div></div>

So did the Weimar Republic. So has Zaire. A check for the $1,500.00 you were promised means little when it takes $100,000,000,000,000.00 to buy dinner.

Do yourself a favor ... buy a history book and then read it.

LWW

LWW
08-30-2010, 03:44 PM
Steve, you are arguing with a statist who believes the wealth belongs to the state.

LWW