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08-30-2002, 11:59 PM
Please view the following posts. They're on the right track. It's not hard to decipher why the UPA is doing what they are doing. Just calm your emotions and your attachments to the US Open and you'll see the light.


Nostroke
(enthusiast)
08/30/02 09:25 AM
152.163.189.129
Re: UPA web CRAP "U.S. Open is not endorsed" [re: Doctor_D] Reply Quote




See insidepool.com for the reasons.

The money isnt posted. What i suspected has been verified. After the negotiations closed and sanctioning withdrawn, Barry has offered to post a little now and the balance next week or vice versa. i hope there can be some type of compromise but i am not expecting it.
(newbie)
08/30/02 10:26 AM
64.12.96.200
Re: UPA web CRAP "U.S. Open is not endorsed" [re: SPetty] Reply Quote




You are absolutely correct, IMO.

Here's how it works: For a couple of decades, Barry has had a formula in place that for the most part, has worked. The formula is to guarantee a nominal amount and use the gate money to complete the guaranteed amount. However, over the last several years, perhaps due to pressure from players and competing events, I believe Barry has been pressured to raise his guaranteed amount which now made him more dependent on a successful gate. This year, he is now changing the mix of his formula again by adding PPV where he doesn't know how much money he will make (or lose)from that. His old formula has now become compromised and the players do not feel the same sense of confidence that they used to have. Barry is the last of the promoters who has been allowed to get away with not posting guaranteed money. I think the players allowed this out of loyalty to him and the U.S. Open. But the situation is not consistent anymore and the money needs to be there up front in all fairness to the players.

I think the UPA has been more than generous in not pulling it's players from the tournament. Usually under these circumstances it could elect to do that. I see that as a compromise where this year represents a "warning," ro the Berman team, and next year may be a different story.

Also, probably the reason for not publically stating the reason for not sanctioning the event is that there is still a slight chance that things can work out the last minute. My guess is that negotiations came to a dead halt, Barry refused to post the added money and called the UPA's bluff. By not disclosing the details to the public, the UPA is allowing Barry an opportunity to regroup and reconsider.

I hope he does.

Fran

Post


Am I the only one that sees it this way?:

The UPA was created, and put in place some rules to protect its members. "These are our rules, would you like to join?" If a tournament doesn't abide by these rules that are put in place to protect our members, we won't sanction the tournament. "Yes, I'll join - looks like good rules."

Then a tournament doesn't/can't abide by the rules for whatever reason. The rules hold firm. Standards are kept high. The UPA players are not forbidden to play. They may play, but will play unprotected by the umbrella of the UPA because the good rules that everyone liked when they signed up that were put in place initially are not being adhered to, so the tournament cannot be sanctioned by the UPA.

I don't see why all the CW/UPA bashing is happening. It seems to me he's doing a hard job - upholding the previously agreed to rules that the players supported when joining the UPA. He's not being petty or having a hissy fit - he's simply upholding the high standards that were set for UPA tournament sanctioning.

Do we suddenly think the initial rules put in place by UPA are no good? If the UPA membership agrees, then the rules will likely be changed. But to sanction the tournament that doesn't meet the sanctioning criteria would be breaking the rules that the members agreed to.

I think CW/UPA is unfairly getting a lot of grief for doing a good job at attempting to protect the UPA players and keeping the standards high.

SPetty

Nostroke
(enthusiast)
08/30/02 02:08 AM
205.188.209.80
Re: UPA web CRAP "U.S. Open is not endorsed" [re: Tom_In_Cincy] Reply Quote




Look $40K was promised to be added. It was supposed to in escrow thirty days before the Open. The Berhmans knew this 8 months ago and couldnt come up with the cash. The excuse this time is that the Pay Per view is costing them so much they dont have it. The last Masters tournament, the Berhmans checks bounced and they had an excuse. The last Open, the "Guantranteed" money was suddenly not there and the prizes were cut. They had an excuse. Anyone see a pattern?.

Most succesful businesses would get a short term loan if they had to.


Charlie is trying to protect the players from getting stiffed. How can he do this if the money isnt up? Would u gamble with someone who stiffed you in the past at all? If you were dumb, you MIGHT play if you at least saw that he had the money on him. Charlie doesn't even see that because it isnt there and you want him to sanction the event and hope????. Can you imagine if he did without ever seeiing the money and the players got stiffed again?? What would they say about the UPA leadership then?

I think he made the only move he could.

Still in all im hoping everyone shows (and gets paid) because its a great tournament otherwise.I'd hate to see it lose its stature.

Post Extras

08-31-2002, 03:39 PM
“I hope to get the contact resolved as soon as possible,” said Behrman. “There are still issues to be discussed. As for the main issues, I have no problem having the guaranteed added money ($40,000) in escrow 30 days out. As for last year’s prize fund, I’m willing to put $10,000 in a fund for the 24 players who didn’t get the full payout last year, but that’s as much as I can do.”
-Billiards Digest August Issue page 12

I believe that Barry verbally agreed to the UPA terms and then later defaulted on the main issues. You have to give credit to the UPA for sticking to their guns. Check out Barry’s quote on page 12 of the August 2002 issue of Billards Digest -

Warren_Lushia
09-01-2002, 01:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Please view the following posts. They're on the right track. It's not hard to decipher why the UPA is doing what they are doing. Just calm your emotions and your attachments to the US Open and you'll see the light.

<hr></blockquote>

why is it when i check the i.p. of this post it comes up as a dialup service from orlando, florida to a company called level3.net, the SAME EXACT service charlie williams posts from? interesting, eh? please don't quote multiple posts unless you are replying to them, your wasting space, the posts are all here for us to read. btw, i think alot of people "see the light".

warren..

09-01-2002, 02:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Warren_Lushia:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Anonymous:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Please view the following posts. They're on the right track. It's not hard to decipher why the UPA is doing what they are doing. Just calm your emotions and your attachments to the US Open and you'll see the light.

&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

why is it when i check the i.p. of this post it comes up as a dialup service from orlando, florida to a company called level3.net, the SAME EXACT service charlie williams posts from? interesting, eh? please don't quote multiple posts unless you are replying to them, your wasting space, the posts are all here for us to read. btw, i think alot of people "see the light".

warren.. <hr></blockquote>

Hmmmm /ccboard/images/icons/blush.gif BS

TomBrooklyn
09-01-2002, 02:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Warren_Lushia:</font><hr> please don't quote multiple posts unless you are replying to them, your wasting space, the posts are all here for us to read. <hr></blockquote>I found it convienent to read the posts there. I don't see any problem with lack of space on this board. You do not speak for me.

09-01-2002, 02:59 AM
Yuck! Stalker!
(You are such a loser)

bluewolf
09-01-2002, 08:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Warren_Lushia:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; please don't quote multiple posts unless you are replying to them, your wasting space, the posts are all here for us to read. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I found it convienent to read the posts there. I don't see any problem with lack of space on this board. You do not speak for me. <hr></blockquote>

care to put that to a vote, warren? i am only one person but happy here. no desire to change anything.

bluewolf

bluewolf
09-01-2002, 08:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: LisaLove:</font><hr> Yuck! Stalker!
(You are such a loser) <hr></blockquote>

dont get this. what makes warren a stalker or a loser. granted i dont agree with many of his posts but i have never met him in person.

for all i know he could be very successful or a bum, a good pool player or a crappy one.

bluewolf

Warren_Lushia
09-01-2002, 11:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: TomBrooklyn:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; &amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font class="small"&amp;gt;Quote: Warren_Lushia:&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;hr&amp;gt; please don't quote multiple posts unless you are replying to them, your wasting space, the posts are all here for us to read. &amp;lt;hr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;I found it convienent to read the posts there. I don't see any problem with lack of space on this board. You do not speak for me. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

care to put that to a vote, warren? i am only one person but happy here. no desire to change anything.

bluewolf <hr></blockquote>

i think you two would feel differently if each day 50-100 ccb regulars posted a group of recent posts to summarize what they agree with. the post served no purpose, since at the time everyone of the posts was right there on the first page, they did not need to be repeated in a separate post. just like the person who decided to post the same quote about barry behrman about 15 times here and on azbilliards. that is senseless. regarding space, the board is busy enough without people repeating posts.

now if someone wanted to dig up some posts from 3 months ago, and doesn't want to drag the whole thread to the homepage, that would be different. repeating posts already on the first page is wasting people's time. that's my opinion anyway.

warren..

Warren_Lushia
09-02-2002, 04:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: LisaLove:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Yuck! Stalker!
(You are such a loser) &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

dont get this. what makes warren a stalker or a loser. granted i dont agree with many of his posts but i have never met him in person.

for all i know he could be very successful or a bum, a good pool player or a crappy one.

bluewolf <hr></blockquote>

i am the rare combo who is both a bum and a crappy pool player.

as to what makes me a stalker or loser, it's a little thing called "practice". it also helps with me being a moron and a dork. lots of hard work!! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif makes me think lisa has met me /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

warren..&lt;-- has no problem with people having a laugh at my expense

bluewolf
09-02-2002, 08:37 AM
care to put that to a vote, warren? i am only one person but happy here. no desire to change anything.

bluewolf &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

i think you two would feel differently if each day 50-100 ccb regulars posted a group of recent posts to summarize what they agree with. the post served no purpose, since at the time everyone of the posts was right there on the first page, they did not need to be repeated in a separate post. just like the person who decided to post the same quote about barry behrman about 15 times here and on azbilliards. that is senseless. regarding space, the board is busy enough without people repeating posts.

now if someone wanted to dig up some posts from 3 months ago, and doesn't want to drag the whole thread to the homepage, that would be different. repeating posts already on the first page is wasting people's time. that's my opinion anyway.

warren.. <hr></blockquote>

warren,

i have seen some of the posts you are referring too. they seemed kind of silly.also posts which dont talk about anything seem silly too.

i think the reason it doesnt bother me as much is because i look at a couple of posts in a thread and if it doesnt interest me i skip the whole thread.the threads i am interested in i usually read every post. so the jest is that if you are reading most posts then me, you may see more of this kind of thing than i.

also this board was tolerant when downtown and i were bantering in an off color way..we were both having fun and it was humerous to us but it irritated others so we stopped.anyway,since the board was tolerant,i tend to be more tolerant of things people do here that i dont like.

bluewolf