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Gayle in MD
10-13-2010, 10:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The recent spate of gay teen suicides has captured the attention of the entire nation and forced parents and schools to confront the issue of anti-gay bullying and the vulnerability of gay adolescents.

In September 2010 alone, at least six gay youth -- all of whom endured a relentless stream of taunts by their classmates -- ended their own lives. Among those bullied to death: Rutgers University freshman Tyler Clementi, who committed suicide after his sexual encounter with another man was broadcast on the internet (pictured right); Justin Aaberg, 15 (middle) and Asher Brown, 13 (left), who killed themselves following severe harassment by their peers.

Sexual orientation aside, all youth are at risk: According to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, suicide is the third leading cause of death for young people between the ages of 15 and 24. That means that more than 5,000 U.S. teens and young adults take their own lives every year. Among university students, the statistics are even more sobering: The Centers for Disease Control identifies suicide as the second leading cause of death on college campuses.

Coming out as gay -- or simply being perceived as homosexual -- can exacerbate the stresses of adolescence. The Trevor Project -- an organization that operates the only 24/7 crisis line for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth -- reports <span style='font-size: 17pt'>that gay teens are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers; nine out of 10 teen LGBT students have experienced harassment at school.[/size[size:17pt]]"Youth of every sexual orientation are at risk for suicide -- but a young person who's struggling with his or her sexual identity is at a much greater risk," </span>says the Trevor Project's East Coast call center manager, Kelli Peterman, who has talked to dozens of gay teens reaching out for help via the hotline.
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>
"Especially for those who live in conservative communities, there's the constant stress of, 'Who can I come out to?'</span> Even before a teen gathers the courage to come out, he or she may often hear comments like, 'If I had a gay friend, I wouldn't hang out with him.' When you're 13 or 14 years old, that's a tremendous amount of stress." Dr. Daniel Carlat, a psychiatrist at Tufts University of School of Medicine and AOL Health's mental health expert, adds this: "Feeling suicidal is usually about depression and isolation, and while many teens feel isolated, being gay makes that feeling much worse."

With all of the media attention surrounding the surge in gay teen suicides, many have wondered if the media itself is partly to blame for encouraging more teens to take their lives. "I doubt it," says Carlat. "I think more media attention has been focused on the issue of late, giving the appearance that it is more common," he says. Peterman agrees: "The slew of deaths in such a short time caught us all by surprise -- and we're deeply saddened by the news," she says. But does all this coverage somehow encourage bullying or even incite copycat suicides? "Not necessarily -- bullying of gay teens was pervasive long before any of these reports. It's our hope that all of this media attention will create safer schools."

In our Twitter-happy culture, openly identifying as gay is particularly fraught with danger for gay teens. As in the case of Clementi, bullying can take the form of technological shaming. "In the age of social media," says Carlat, "a teen's sexual orientation can become public very quickly." And while there's not much Clementi could have done to prevent his roommates from secretly taping and broadcasting his intimate encounter, all teens are encouraged to seek help when they're verbally victimized by classmates. "Gay teens who feel bullied should talk to the principal, their teacher or the school counselor," says Carlat. "Most schools now have anti-bullying policies in place, and they will usually take some action.

Since isolation is one of the worse outcomes of being bullied, it's important to find organizations for emotional support."
Carlat adds that parents and friends can best support gay teens by talking openly about the topic. "If there is another family member or a family friend who is openly gay, bring that person up in conversation in a normal way," says Carlat. "Discuss openly gay celebrities like Ellen Degeneres and Adam Lambert. If someone in the family uses the 'f word' to describe someone who is gay, make sure to talk about how insulting that is and how damaging it can be to a young person's self-esteem."

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Perhaps just as significant as the recent wave of suicides is the social climate that gave birth to them: A May 2010 Gallup poll shows that 43 percent of Americans still call gay relations "morally wrong." While that's the lowest number in Gallup's decade-long research on the topic, that statistic nonetheless sheds light on why teens like Clementi, Lucas and Brown were snubbed by their classmates -- by other children who took on the attitudes of their parents and of the society at large. <span style='font-size: 26pt'>"Parents should realize that most of the scientific community believes that sexual orientation is genetic and that being gay is not a choice," says Carlat. "Stigmatizing someone for being gay is like criticizing them for having brown hair. It is really a relic of another era."</span></span> </div></div>

sack316
10-14-2010, 06:05 AM
Dr. Phil actually did a very good show about this recently. The message many of his guests got across (who had been through this themselves) was to ensure like-minded teens that they are not alone and that there are a lot of support groups out there that can be turned to. I'm not sure if he posts his episodes online or not, but if you can find it I'm sure you'd enjoy that episode. Very informative and full of good information.

Sack

eg8r
10-14-2010, 07:45 AM
We get it gayle, this is the absolute worst time in history for someone to come out. Oppression has never been its highest.

eg8r &lt;~~considers gayles rants on this subject a joke

Deeman3
10-14-2010, 08:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We get it gayle, this is the absolute worst time in history for someone to come out. Oppression has never been its highest.

eg8r &lt;~~considers gayles rants on this subject a joke </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Ed, Thank-you! As we are rounding up thousands of gays and packing them into camps and torturing them in the streets most of us had not noticed that this is such a horrible place and time to be gay. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks for reminding me who I am arguing with. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

Gayle in MD
10-14-2010, 10:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dr. Phil actually did a very good show about this recently. The message many of his guests got across (who had been through this themselves) was to ensure like-minded teens that they are not alone and that there are a lot of support groups out there that can be turned to. I'm not sure if he posts his episodes online or not, but if you can find it I'm sure you'd enjoy that episode. Very informative and full of good information.

Sack </div></div>


Yes, I did see it Sack, and it was an excellent show.

Bashing Gays, and Lesbians, ridiculing them by making fun of them, demonizing them, and spewing irrational judgements upon them, religiously based, or otherwise, contributes largely to their plight, and is surely a huge factor which inceases threats to their personal safety.

The emotional adjustments which these very young people must endure, to survive, considering their ability, as young people, to get through the most dangerous time of their lives, when they are truly not yet mature enough to understand the vast ignorance behind homophobic rejection of their unchosen, human condition, should not be minimized in the minds of those who participate in such despicable behavior.

There is absolutely no rational excuse, particularly for ADULTS, to engage in ridiculing, demonizing or embracing opinions which promote the idea that it is correct to deny the same human rights that heterosexuals expect, and take for granted, for homosexuals.

It is among the most despicable acts one can commit, IMO. And, to me, it is completely unjustifiable, on any level, and the mark of irrational ignorance and pomposity. An automatic emotional response of bigotry, and ignorance, which says far more about the attacker, than their target.

G.

pooltchr
10-14-2010, 11:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is among the most despicable acts one can commit, IMO.
G. </div></div>

Yeah...ranks right up there with killing unborn babies!

Steve

eg8r
10-14-2010, 11:21 AM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-14-2010, 01:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We get it gayle, this is the absolute worst time in history for someone to come out. Oppression has never been its highest.

eg8r &lt;~~considers gayles rants on this subject a joke </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Ed, Thank-you! As we are rounding up thousands of gays and packing them into camps and torturing them in the streets most of us had not noticed that this is such a horrible place and time to be gay. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks for reminding me who I am arguing with. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Parents should realize that most of the scientific community believes that sexual orientation is genetic and that being gay is not a choice," says Carlat. "Stigmatizing someone for being gay is like criticizing them for having brown hair. It is really a relic of another era." </div></div>

You can minimize the negative consequences of what you are doing, Deeman, but you can't change the Scientific Facts, and those facts, are what is important to understand about this issue.

Of course, as long as you choose to deny that being Gay/Lesbian, is not a choice, you can make a joke out of the many young Gay and Lesbian people who are committing suicide because we have people in our society, who CHOOSE to deny the Scientific facts, and continue to BASH nd ridicule others, for being who they are.

I have thought better of you. What you are doing, is wrong.

G.

Deeman3
10-14-2010, 01:22 PM
I don't know if being gay is environmental or a born disability, I really don't. I think there is probably a little of both involved.

Being gay is not a crime, at least here in America. Making fun of them is also not a crime. Have you not seen that in both the left and right? If not, you have not been paying attention. As a comedic subject, you have no problem if it is gay republican, like the foot tapper, if you remember?

So, to you, if Jon Stewart puts up a sign below him that says, "Don't Ass, Don't tell!" it is funny. If I do it you consier it homophobic. Strange that a perversion like crossdressing is allowed to be fully on MASH or on Saturday Night Live but any of us on the right make a statement and we are homophobic. I know you can't grasp that. It is too easy for you to use this as some sort of flag that our opinions are somehow less worthy than yours. That is just not the case.

If I tried to live up to your standards, I would, first of all, be a left wing nut case.

When you see me actually persecuting gays I'll let you lecture me.

Talking about Barney bending his Fanny Mae boyfriend over a desk is not abusing him or other gays. In fact, he may like it. Was he as evil as the Republicans before he "came out?" Of course not! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r
10-14-2010, 01:24 PM
LOL, who else cracks up when gaylio starts talking about "scientific facts"?

eg8r

llotter
10-14-2010, 01:36 PM
It is the homo community that is outing itself and forcing their perverted lifestyle in everyone's face. It should be unsurprising that that the majority would react negatively. And no doubt that the conspicuous moral conflict is troubling for the minority but staying in the closet could help then deal with the dilemma.

Deeman3
10-14-2010, 01:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, who else cracks up when gaylio starts talking about "scientific facts"?

eg8r </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well, what are the scientific facts that must make Hillary and Barak homophobes when they oppose gay marriage. If they are, indeed, for equal rights for this opprressed minority, does not wanting them to marry make than homophobic? Naw, see they are Democrats and can't be homophobic!

My opposition, of course, is based in my obvious hate of al Muslims and gay folks. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Who is going to enter my "Draw your best image of Mohammad" Contest? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </span>

eg8r
10-14-2010, 05:28 PM
You are too funny. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-14-2010, 09:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if being gay is environmental or a born disability, I really don't. I think there is probably a little of both involved.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> You equate it with disability? Yet another unfair remark, directed at homosexuals. </span>

Being gay is not a crime, at least here in America. Making fun of them is also not a crime. Have you not seen that in both the left and right? If not, you have not been paying attention. As a comedic subject, you have no problem if it is gay republican, like the foot tapper, if you remember?

<span style="color: #FF0000">My comments regarding Republican closeted Gay Men, of the Congress and Senate, have been directed at their hypocracy, in attacking others, who are also Gay, for what they, themselves, are, in secret, while voting consistantly, for decades, against the rights of others, who are Gay, just like them.

I do not fault them for being Gay, I fault them for adding to the plight of Gay people, when they, of all people, should live lives which do not add to the plight of others who are like them, while publically attacking Gays, for being who they are.

I did not write the definition of homophobia, is was written by psychologist, and many other doctors and scientists in the Medical Profession, after many decades of behavior analysis and scientific studies by Psychiatrists, and Scientists who are experts in DNA, Chromosome studies, and scientific studies of evolution, which led to more revelations about the Gay phenomenon.

Their conclusions, match my real life, common sense, experiences and observations of homosexuals, young and old, rich and poor, honest and deceitful, over the course of my lifetime.




It is the frequency of your ridicule of homosexuals, in general, and in the world of politics, always of the openly Gay Democratics, who do not hide whom and what they are, along with statements that incorrectly equate homosexuality, with the crime and perversion of pedophelia, which is incorrect, according to scientific studies, both physiological and psychological studies. To me,, doing so, is morally wrong, far more so that for a person to be born Gay, and, IMO, it is also, grossly unfair.

It doesn't matter to me whom it is who adds or contributes, to the kind of homophobic actions and statements, of homophobic degradation, and ridicule, whether it is you, or John Stewart, or even some friend or aquaintance, that is doing it, it is unfair, incorrect and damaging, considering the number of tragedies among our youth, and among adults, as well.

What matters to me, is that I take a stand, against it, where ever I find it, and that I point out the scientific facts, and particularly now, at a time when we are reading of as many as six young students, committing suicide, in a weerk, after being targetted by hateful and degrading homophobic remarks, and violent attacks.

Such a sad disaster, becoming more frequent, should be cause enough for those who make those kind of statements, to re-think their own motives, and address the medically out dated ideology, regarding the homosexual condition.</span>


So, to you, if Jon Stewart puts up a sign below him that says, "Don't Ass, Don't tell!" it is funny. If I do it you consier it homophobic.

<span style="color: #FF0000">No, to me, neither statements are funny, and neither are responsible, nor fair. </span>


Strange that a perversion like crossdressg is allowed to be fully on MASH or on Saturday Night Live but any of us on the right make a statement and we are homophobic.

<span style="color: #FF6666"> Again, Deeman, I did not write the definition of homophobia. Professionals, far more intelligent, and educated, than I, wrote the definition of homophobia, after decades of study, and analysis. </span>

I know you can't grasp that. It is too easy for you to use this as some sort of flag that our opinions are somehow less worthy than yours. That is just not the case.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well no, to me it has nothing to do with you, or with myself,.... to me it has to do with reading about six young students, who committed suicide in the same week, and my feelings about discrimination, and bigotry, and all of the suffering they cause in the world.


When we have Gay youth, band grown Gay Men, being attacked and brutally beaten, and students, across the country, committing suicide, because they have been bullied by other students, harrassed, and even murdered, for being who they are, it is time for adults, and particularly parents, to re-think their own outdated views, and at least look into the fact that views, such as linking pedophelia, to homosexuality, have been scientifically proven, to be false assumptions.

Hence, I've taken a good deal of my time to find and post those results, on this forum, over the years, not so that I can be right, nor because I wish to prove you wrong, but because I have sincere concerns about the plight of the Gay/Lesbian people in the world, and particularly the young G/L kids, who deserve to be who they are, without having their professions ruined, their honor, or their worthiness, questioned, or to be sujected to being bashed, attacked, psyically beaten, and even murdered, for something over which which they have no choice.

I expect you will reject my sincerity regarding this subject, as you have done a number of times, but my first duty is to myself, and I cannot live with myself, if I fail to speak against what I believe, is a very damaging, negative, and grossly unfair phenomenon, which is damaging to a whole group of vulnerable people, who were dealt, what seems to me, was a bad hand in the gene pool, and given how difficult so many issues in life, are, for the Gay and Lesbian population, it is impossible for me to understand, how anyone could possibly think that people choose to be Gay. </span>


If I tried to live up to your standards, I would, first of all, be a left wing nut case.

When you see me actually persecuting gays I'll let you lecture me.

Talking about Barney bending his Fanny Mae boyfriend over a desk is not abusing him or other gays. In fact, he may like it. Was he as evil as the Republicans before he "came out?" Of course not! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Communicating with you is difficult, but I do wish you would try to understand, that I have to do what I have to do, in order to live with myself. It has nothing to do with you, personally.

G. </span>

LWW
10-15-2010, 02:30 AM
What about teen boy buggerers who preach against gays yet practice it in hiding ... and back democrook candidates with cash and jet planes?

LWW

Deeman3
10-15-2010, 07:35 AM
I was shocked, as I know Gayle was, that Obama's administration is fighting the ruling against Don't ask, don't tell, by a Federal Judge!

How homophobic can this administration be? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
10-15-2010, 07:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was shocked, as I know Gayle was, that Obama's administration is fighting the ruling against Don't ask, don't tell, by a Federal Judge!

How homophobic can this administration be? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

You apparently haven't read the legal strategy involved in this issue.

G.

Deeman3
10-15-2010, 08:08 AM
Are you saying that the Obama Administration is playing this as a political ploy to not appear to be gay friendly?

If so, that might be putting politics ahead of the good of the gay agenda.

As with the gay marriage issue, Obama appears to be even to the right of me in his policy, wouldn't you say?

It seems I am against gay marriage as is he and Clinton. ON Don't ask, don't tell, I have not come down hard on either side but think the rank and file, along with their leadership should decide this. If it does not impact readiness, and it may not, I see no reason to keep them out of open service. Like straight soldiers, they should be expected to not practice their sexual advances toward non-gay soldiers. of course, the military has it's own way of policing this at least in the combat situations.

eg8r
10-15-2010, 08:18 AM
As long as the Dems can use homophobia strategically to get there way then it must be fine.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-15-2010, 08:39 AM
Did I say anything about politics? NO. I said, LEGAL strategy.

G.

Deeman3
10-15-2010, 09:09 AM
Gayle,

No, I have not studied the legal strtategy of the Obama Administration on thie issue.

If I have time, over the weekend, I will. If you want to clue me in now, I will listen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
10-15-2010, 09:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle,

No, I have not studied the legal strtategy of the Obama Administration on thie issue.

If I have time, over the weekend, I will. If you want to clue me in now, I will listen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

If the issue is addressed, and is passed in Congress, with the Military fully supporting, there is far less chance of things being held up endlessly in the Appeal Courts...

Sotomayor, for example, would have to recuse hweself from any S.C. decision, if there were to be appeals, all the way to the S.C.

G.

Deeman3
10-15-2010, 09:49 AM
So, Obama may not be as homophobis as we protray him, you and I? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Well, let's hope it all ends with the best decision for the country, whatever that may be.

Gayle in MD
10-15-2010, 10:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, Obama may not be as homophobis as we protray him, you and I? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Well, let's hope it all ends with the best decision for the country, whatever that may be. </div></div>

Actually, Dee, I have given you the definition of homophobia.

Nothing the president has done, really fits it.

Also, I do not agree with religious views, your view, or President Obama's view, that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.

People feel the way they feel about that, and IMO, it's wrong thinking, unfair, and unConstitutional, regardless of who thinks that way, but all have a right to their opinions, just as I do.

I don't agree either, that organized religion is a good thing, for anyone, from a psychological standpoint, but I respect the rights, and views of others, who apparently, find comfort in organized religion.

As I have said, often, to each his own, unless or until you hurt someone, or force somthing on them, or actively seek to discriminate against them in ways that deprive them of all of the saje rights that you, yourself, enjoy.... Which, again, is not the same thing as just having a personal opinion.

However, that is a different matter entirely, from bashing and ridiculing Gay and Lesbian people, making fun fo them for who they are, which definitely IS homophobic.

I hope we're now clear on the subject.

G.

pooltchr
10-15-2010, 11:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As I have said, often, to each his own, unless or until you hurt someone, or force somthing on them, or actively seek to discriminate against them in ways that deprive them of all of the saje rights that you, yourself, enjoy.... Which, again, is not the same thing as just having a personal opinion.

G.

</div></div>

Unless you are talking about a child in it's mother's womb. Then you would have no problem denying that child the same rights to life that you yourself enjoy!

Steve