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Gayle in MD
10-20-2010, 07:01 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/opinio...n%2Findex.jsonp (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/opinion/20friedman.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fo pinion%2Findex.jsonp)


Op-Ed Columnist
Just Knock It Off
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: October 19, 2010



Some of Israel’s worst critics are fond of saying that Israel behaves like America’s spoiled child. I’ve always found that analogy excessive. Say what you want about Israel’s obstinacy at times, it remains the only country in the United Nations that another U.N. member, Iran, has openly expressed the hope that it be wiped off the map. And that same country, Iran, is trying to build a nuclear weapon. Israel is the only country I know of in the Middle East that has unilaterally withdrawn from territory conquered in war — in Lebanon and Gaza — only to be greeted with unprovoked rocket attacks in return. Indeed, if you want to talk about spoiled children, there is no group more spoiled by Iran and Syria than Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite militia. Hezbollah started a war against Israel in 2006 that brought death, injury and destruction to thousands of Lebanese — and Hezbollah’s punishment was to be rewarded with thousands more missiles and millions more dollars to do it again. These are stubborn facts.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>And here’s another stubborn fact: Israel today really is behaving like a spoiled child.</span>

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Please spare me the nonsense that President Obama is anti-Israel. At a time when the president has made it one of his top priorities to build a global coalition to stop Iran from making a nuclear weapon, he took the very logical view that if he could advance the peace process in the Middle East it would give him much greater leverage to get the Europeans and U.N. behind tougher sanctions on Iran. At the same time, Obama believed — what a majority of Israelis believe — that Israel can’t remain a Jewish democracy in the long run if it continues to control 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank. </span>


<span style='font-size: 14pt'>On top of it all, while pressing Israel to stop expanding settlements for as little as 60 days, Obama ordered his vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. James E. “Hoss” Cartwright of the Marines, to lead a U.S. team to work with Israel’s military on an unprecedented package of security assistance to enable Israel to maintain its “qualitative edge” over its neighbors. And, for all this, Obama is decried as anti-Israel. What utter nonsense. </span>Given what Obama has done, and is trying to do, it is hardly an act of hostility for him to ask Israel to continue its now-expired 10-month partial moratorium on settlement-building in the West Bank in order to take away any excuse from the Palestinians to avoid peace talks. Israel’s prime minister, Bibi Netanyahu, has been either resisting this request or demanding a payoff from the U.S. for a brief continuation of the freeze. He is wrong on two counts.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>First — I know this is a crazy, radical idea — when America asks Israel to do something that in no way touches on its vital security but would actually enhance it, there is only one right answer: “Yes.” It is a measure of how spoiled Israel has become that after billions and billions of dollars in U.S. aid and 300,000 settlers already ensconced in the West Bank, Israel feels no compunction about spurning an American request for a longer settlement freeze — the only purpose of which is to help the United States help Israel reach a secure peace with the Palestinians. Just one time you would like Israel to say, “You know, Mr. President, we’re dubious that a continued settlement freeze will have an impact. But you think it will, so, let’s test it. This one’s for you.” </span>


Yes, I know, Netanyahu says that if he did that then the far right-wingers in his cabinet would walk out. He knows he can’t make peace with some of the lunatics in his cabinet, but he tells the U.S. that he only wants to blow up his cabinet once — for a deal. But we will never get to that stage if he doesn’t blow it up now and construct a centrist coalition that can negotiate a deal.

Second, I have no idea whether the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, has the will and the guts to make peace with Israel. In fact, when you go back and look at what Ehud Olmert, Netanyahu’s predecessor, offered Abbas — a real two-state compromise, including a deal on Jerusalem — and you think that Abbas spurned that offer, and you think that Netanyahu already gave Abbas a 10-month settlement freeze and Abbas only entered serious talks in the ninth month, you have to wonder how committed he is.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>But the fact is that the team of Abbas and Prime Minister Salam Fayyad have built a government that is the best the Palestinians have ever had, and, more importantly, a Palestinian security apparatus that the Israeli military respects and is acting as a real partner. Given this, Israel has an overwhelming interest to really test — that is all we can ask — whether this Palestinian leadership is ready for a fair and mutually secure two-state solution.

That test is something the U.S. should not have to beg or bribe Israel to generate. This moment is not about Obama. He’s doing his job. It is about whether the Israeli and Palestinian leaders are up to theirs. Abbas is weak and acts weaker. Netanyahu is strong and acts weak. It is time for both to step it up. And it is time for all the outsiders who spoil them to find another hobby. </span>

sack316
10-20-2010, 10:24 AM
Brace yourself.... agreed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Deeman3
10-20-2010, 12:33 PM
I don't see a lot wrong with that. I just can't see a situation where anyone from the Palistinian side can make any assurances to the Jews and keep them. If a two state solution is to work, there will have to be real penalties for the one that breaks to peace, not UN Sanctions which are about as enforced and feared as an American, "This will not stand!" statement.

What would any of you do if you were Israel when Iraq gets a nuke? Wait and see what happens? Ask America to interviene?

Light the candle?

Qtec
10-21-2010, 12:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would any of you do if you were Israel when Iraq gets a nuke? </div></div>

Nothing.
For Iran to fire a nuke at Israel would mean their own destruction.

Q

pooltchr
10-21-2010, 06:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For Iran to fire a nuke at Israel would mean their own destruction.

Q </div></div>

You are assuming that leadership in Iran will always think rationally.
If radical people can give up their own lives for a cause fueled by hatred, it's entirely possible they would consider setting aside their own well being for the "cause"
It's the same mentality that lets people strap bombs to themselves, or plan to crash airliners into skyscrapers.


Steve

Qtec
10-21-2010, 10:28 AM
Its not only the Islamic extremists you should fear.

rapture ready (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unautho_b_57826.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself. </span> </div></div>

Q

Deeman3
10-21-2010, 12:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not only the Islamic extremists you should fear.

rapture ready (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unautho_b_57826.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself. </span> </div></div>

Q </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Q, even if what you quoted was true or by a reputable source, it might not occur to you that the First baptist Church is not and has not tried to build it's own nukes! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Iran has said they will blow the Jews off the face of the earth. Is it just because your country has given up and turned itself over to the Muslims that you want others to? When we start seeing Methodists strapping on anything more deadly than a dildo, we'll give your report morte credit. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</span>

Gayle in MD
10-22-2010, 03:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not only the Islamic extremists you should fear.

rapture ready (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unautho_b_57826.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself. </span> </div></div>

Q </div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Q, even if what you quoted was true or by a reputable source, it might not occur to you that the First baptist Church is not and has not tried to build it's own nukes! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Iran has said they will blow the Jews off the face of the earth. Is it just because your country has given up and turned itself over to the Muslims that you want others to? When we start seeing Methodists strapping on anything more deadly than a dildo, we'll give your report morte credit. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</span> </div></div>


America, is not, The Jews. The Netherlands, is not Islam.

You, don't even check out the credentials of "the Source" before you decide it isn't a reliable source.


Is it ever possible for you to address reasonable views, without resorting to extremist sarcastic remarks, which have nothing to do with anything?

Q is correct, IMO, the Religious right wing of the Republican Party, represent a far greater threat to the U.S., than Iran.

How many Tea Party Candidates have stated their desire to change the Constitution? Or use certain Amendments to kill off their competitors,.... Angle? Want's to use the second Amendment resolution, if Democratics win? She'[s saying, go kill off Democratics, if we don't take over.

You take Iran's rhetoric serious, but not a contender right here in America?

Rand Paul, against the Civil Rights Amendment?


Corporate socialism is fine, but don't do anything to give aid to our Veterans, our educational system, our police, teachers, firemen. But go vote Republican, so that the corporations have carte blanche, to skip out on taxes, while they outsource our jobs, steal our retirement investments, pollute the environment, make us all ill, and then dump us after they fill our environment will poison and chemicals, thank you KOCH Brothers, and the Anti-Amerian Chambere Of Commerce! .....

Unbelievable!


Q is right, your response is irrelevant.

G.

Qtec
10-22-2010, 05:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q, even if what you quoted was true or by a reputable source, it might not occur to you that the First baptist Church is not and has not tried to build it's own nukes! \:\) </div></div>

Doesn't have to. Just have to have the right man/woman in the WH.

Q

Gayle in MD
10-22-2010, 05:29 AM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
10-22-2010, 05:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see a lot wrong with that. I just can't see a situation where anyone from the Palistinian side can make any assurances to the Jews and keep them.

<span style="color: #FF0000">One could say the very same thing about Israel, AND the Palestinians don't have a powereful lobby in Washington D,C,, buying our Candidates, and interfering with out foreign policies.</span>

If a two state solution is to work, there will have to be real penalties for the one that breaks to peace, not UN Sanctions which are about as enforced and feared as an American, "This will not stand!" statement.

What would any of you do if you were Israel when Iraq gets a nuke? Wait and see what happens? Ask America to interviene?

Light the candle? </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Pefrhaps, the question should be, what di any of you expect to happen in the Middle East,
AFTER Israel got nukes?

"Words" are no defense to use or acquire, NUKES, IMO.

I lost all respect for the Israel of today, after they used inhumane actions against another ethnic group. Even ,more so, once I traced the connections between the American Enterprise Institute, the Israeli Lobby, and the owners of America's so called, "Free Press" and that was even before I checked out who made the most money off the latest Wall Street Ponzi Scheme, aka, Bush's Great Recession, nearly Great Depression, if not for President Obama...

G.</span>

bobroberts
10-22-2010, 09:05 PM
Those darn israelis are at it again
1. Scientists in Israel found that the brackish water, drilled from underground desert aquifers hundreds of feet deep, could be used to raise warm-water fish. The geothermal water, less than one-tenth as saline as sea water, free of pollutants, and a toasty 98 degrees on average, proves an ideal environment..

2. Israeli-developed designer-eyeglasses, promise mobile phone and iPod users, a personalized, high-tech video display. Available to US consumers next year, Lumus-Optical's lightweight and fashionable video eyeglasses, feature a large transparent screen, floating in front of the viewer's face that projects their choice of movie, TV show, or video game.

3. When Stephen Hawkins recently visited Israel , he shared his wisdom with scientists, students, and even the Prime Minister. But the world's most renowned victim of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), or Lou Gehrig's disease, also learned something, due to the Israeli Association for ALS' advanced work in both embryonic and adult stem cell research, as well as its proven track record with neurodegenerative diseases. The Israeli research community is well on its way to finding a treatment for this fatal disease, which affects 30,000 Americans.

4. Israeli start -up, Veterix, has developed an innovative new electronic capsule that sits in the stomach of a cow, sheep, or goat, sending out real-time information on the health of the herd, to the farmer via email or cell phone. The e-capsule, which also sends out alerts if animals are distressed, injured, or lost is now being tested on a herd of cows, in the hopes that the device will lead to tastier and healthier meat and milk supplies.

5. The millions of Skype users worldwide will soon have access to the newly developed KishKish lie-detector. This free internet service, based on voice stress analysis (a technique, commonly used in criminal investigations) will be able to measure just how truthful that person on the other end of the line, really is.

6. Beating cardiac tissue has been created in a lab from human embryonic stem cells by researchers at the Rappaport Medical Faculty and the Technion - Israeli institute of Technology 's biomedical Engineering facility. The work of Dr. Shulamit Levenberg and Prof. Lior Gepstein, has also led to the creation of tiny blood vessels within the tissue, making possible its implantation in a human heart.

7. Israel 's Magal Security Systems, is a worldwide leader in computerized security systems, with products used in more than 70 countries around the world, protecting anything from national borders, to nuclear facilities, refineries, and airports. The company's latest Product, DreamBox, a state-of-the-art security system that includes Intelligent video, audio and sensor management, is now being used by a major water authority on the US east coast to safeguard the utility's sites.

8. It is common knowledge that dogs have better night vision than humans and a vastly superior sense of smell and hearing. Israel 's Bio-Sense Technologies recently delved further and electronically analyzed 350 different barks. Finding that dogs of all breeds and sizes, bark the same alarm when they sense a threat, the firm has designed the dog bark-reader, a sensor that can pick up a dog's alarm bark, and alert the human operators. This is just one of a batch of innovative security systems to emerge from Israel which Forbes calls 'the go-to country for anti-terrorism technologies.'

9. Israeli company, BioControl Medical, sold its first electrical stimulator to treat urinary incontinence to a US company for $50 Million. Now, it is working on CardioFit, which uses electrical nerve stimulation to treat congestive heart failure. With nearly five million Americans presently affected by heart failure, and more than 400,000 new cases diagnosed yearly, the CardioFit is already generating a great deal of excitement as the first device with the potential to halt this deadly disease.

10. One year after Norway 's Socialist Left Party launched its Boycott Israel campaign, the importing of Israeli goods has increased by 15%, the strongest increase in many years, statistics Norway reports.

In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed?
Gayle i feel sorry for your small mind.

LWW
10-23-2010, 04:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not only the Islamic extremists you should fear.

rapture ready (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unautho_b_57826.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself. </span> </div></div>

Q </div></div>

You can watch far more extreme examples on virtually any news channel on almost any day.

Mumbai.

Pentagon.

Twin Towers I.

London ... twice.

Spain.

The African Embassies.

Khobar Towers.

Lebanon marine barracks.

USS Cole.

Achille Lauro.

I could go on ... but you wouldn't get it.

LWW

Qtec
10-23-2010, 04:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not only the Islamic extremists you should fear.

rapture ready (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unautho_b_57826.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself. </span> </div></div>

Q </div></div>

You can watch far more extreme examples on virtually any news channel on almost any day.

Mumbai.

Pentagon.

Twin Towers I.

London ... twice.

Spain.

The African Embassies.

Khobar Towers.

Lebanon marine barracks.

USS Cole.

Achille Lauro.

I could go on ... but you wouldn't get it.

LWW </div></div>

Which one of these attacks was meant to bring on the end of the world?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Journalist Max Blumenthal took his cameras to the CUFI's Washington-Israel Summit held July 2007, in Washington DC. The result was a documentary entitled, Rapture Ready: The Unauthorized Christians United for Israel Tour. It opens with a dialogue with former Republican House Majority Leader Tom Delay, who was <span style='font-size: 17pt'>asked how important is the Second Coming is in his support of Israel. "Obviously, it is what I live for. <u>Really, I hope it comes tomorrow. </u>Obviously, we need to be connected to Israel to enjoy the Second Coming of Christ."</span> </div></div>

Q.........

LWW
10-23-2010, 05:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would any of you do if you were Israel when Iraq gets a nuke? </div></div>

Nothing.
For Iran to fire a nuke at Israel would mean their own destruction.

Q </div></div>

That's what a sane person concerned with survival would think.

OTOH, if you were a raving Islamofascist such as Ahmadiddlyjihad who:

- Had the streets of Tehran widened so that the Twelfth Imam and Jesus could have plenty of room for their victory parade after saving Islam from total destruction at the hands of the Jews, infidels, and crusaders.

- Believed that his purpose in life was to instigate the final battle between Islam and the Jews, infidels, and crusaders.

the logic math skews significantly.

Realists such as myself realize this.

Dhimmis, America haters, liberty haters, western culture haters, capitalism haters, and apologists for radical Islam will ... of course, and as always ... disagree.

LWW

LWW
10-23-2010, 05:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which one of these attacks was meant to bring on the end of the world?

Q......... </div></div>

If you read the writings of UBL, Arafat, Ahmadiddlyjihad, and the Grand Mufti you would realize that they all were.

LWW