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bluewolf
09-01-2002, 08:41 AM
i know this is controversial, but here goes.whitewolf taught me eye movements and locking onto the ob last.

i just had a lesson with scott lee last week.he is such a good player, he is awesome.he mentioned that he looks at the cb last.he also explained that if you are off on the cb even less than a millimeter,it can cause you to miss the shot.there is no doubt that this method works very well with scott.

whitewolf is a good player so feel his method works well for him too.

while scott and i worked mainly on stroke, follow through, bridge, ball control ie fundamentals, i have been wondering about this looking at the cb last business. right now when i play pool i am practicing my stroke and followthrough and ball speed (i did not even have a followthrough before scott). it seems it is worth a try anyway.

bluewolf

Tom_In_Cincy
09-01-2002, 11:34 AM
Bluewolf,
I am not a big believer that this CB or OB last is a MUST.. to accomplish making the shot.

I believe that the process of looking at the CB and OB and back to the CB, at least 3 times is a MUST.

On close shots (less than 3 feet) I always look at the cue ball last, on long shots (3+feet to 8 feet or more) its usually the OB.. this just works better for me.

I would suggest mixing it up.. OB last CB last and see what you like and become confident.

stickman
09-01-2002, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Bluewolf,
I am not a big believer that this CB or OB last is a MUST.. to accomplish making the shot.

I believe that the process of looking at the CB and OB and back to the CB, at least 3 times is a MUST.

On close shots (less than 3 feet) I always look at the cue ball last, on long shots (3+feet to 8 feet or more) its usually the OB.. this just works better for me.

I would suggest mixing it up.. OB last CB last and see what you like and become confident. <hr></blockquote>

I'm like you Tom, I mix it up. I tried using the CB last and found it to work good for me on some shots, but not all. Of course, the same is true of the other method. LOL

I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong, it's what works best for you. There are good shooters using both methods. I don't choose one method, I use the one that feels right at the time. I find, at least for me, the CB last method works best for the close shots, the same as you have stated.

09-01-2002, 05:16 PM
Do any of you ever look from the object ball to the pocket? I haven't played for a couple months. But I thought I was making more long shots looking from the object ball to the pocket. And I did see some of the women pros doing this on some shots on tv. But I haven't seen a tv match in over a month either. I was getting notified by email of tv matches. But I haven't received any email notifications in about 3 weeks or longer. Have there been any tv matches lately? Hoping to see the US Open on ppv if it's available on direct tv.

stickman
09-01-2002, 05:59 PM
I always look from the object ball to the pocket to determine where I want to strike the object ball. After lining up on it, I concentrate on the the point of contact in most cases and on the cueball in short range instances on the final stroke. My eyes move back and forth on the warmup strokes to verify my aim.

Q-guy
09-02-2002, 12:23 AM
I don't think one is better then the other, but it is more natural to look at the object ball last. I don't think the percentage of players that look at the cueball last would even be close. I feel you should do what comes naturel in regard to this. I know you were impressed by Scott and would be inclined to take his advice (if that is what he was suggesting). But you should do what comes natural to you. If it was the best way, all the top players would have forced themselves to do it. I only know of one that looks at the cueball last although there maybe a few more. Give it a try but don't become obsessed with it.

bluewolf
09-02-2002, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> I don't think one is better then the other, but it is more natural to look at the object ball last. I don't think the percentage of players that look at the cueball last would even be close. I feel you should do what comes naturel in regard to this. I know you were impressed by Scott and would be inclined to take his advice (if that is what he was suggesting). But you should do what comes natural to you. If it was the best way, all the top players would have forced themselves to do it. I only know of one that looks at the cueball last although there maybe a few more. Give it a try but don't become obsessed with it. <hr></blockquote>

thanks for everybodys suggestions.whitewolf taught me to look at the ob last. my natural way in the beginning was to look at the cb last. now looking at the ob is pretty ingrained. but scott is so good, i thought it was worth a try. also on long straight shots and rail shots, i usually get in but that is stroke. i have slight noncorrectable astigmatism so the numbers on the long balls are kind of funny.so maybe looking at the cb would keep me from trying to see clearly what i cant see.

bluewolf

MikeM
09-02-2002, 09:11 AM
Since I am a right handed stick and left eye dominant I often have trouble hitting the CB in the center. So I most often look at the CB last to make sure I'm in the right spot.

On really long shots I will also pick a spot somewhat nearer to the CB that is on the intended line and aim for that as opposed to aiming for the OB waaaay up there. I guess this is a holdover from my bowling days when I would roll the ball along a certain board once I knew the line my ball would take. Does anyone wlse do this?

MM

John in NH
09-02-2002, 09:54 AM
Hi Bluewolf,

I break every shot down into two parts prior to execution, first I look at the path from the object ball into the pocket and second the path of the cb from the ob to the spot on the table where I want the cb to end up, taking into account how much english to apply to the cb to complete the shot, in the upright position I take a practice stroke and picture completing the shot, then I swing down to the cueball keeping my focus on the ob, then back to the cb at the spot on the cb and apply english and follow through to the spot on the ob, this happens very quickly and becomes routine, usually when I miss a shot it's because I have not completed both steps properly.

Good luck,

John

TonyM
09-02-2002, 11:16 AM
I think that as long as you have the alignment correct (the stick is on the correct line) then you could look at either the cueball or the object ball. In some cases, depending on what is the critical factor for the shot (the object ball contact or the cueball contact), then it might make sense to look at one more than the other.

I also think that the exact contact on the cueball is less important than some people think. Squirt actually is self correcting for errors at the cueball. This is how backhand english works after all. So if you can pivot your back hand and add 1/2" of english and still make the ball, why would you not also make it if you accidentally added only 1mm?

The key is to have the cue aligned correctly BEFORE you stroke the ball. If you can do that, then it shouldn't really matter what your eyes are looking at.

I do think that for potting purposes, it makes sense to look at the object ball lest in order to get immediate feedback.

Tony

heater451
09-02-2002, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TonyM:</font><hr> I think that as long as you have the alignment correct (the stick is on the correct line) then you could look at either the cueball or the object ball. In some cases, depending on what is the critical factor for the shot (the object ball contact or the cueball contact), then it might make sense to look at one more than the other.<hr></blockquote>If your stroke is so on that you can do the shot with your eyes closed, then it won't matter. As it seems that OB last is somewhat more natural, then looking there shouldn't be any different that closing your eyes. However, if you find that your stroke is 'off', or you're missing shots, and can't quite figure out why, then looking at the CB last is a good way to dial back in (and once you're potting normally, you will probably snap back to your standard style, without even noticing that you did).

It's also possible to figure out your aim point on the OB, transfer it to the CB, and then only concentrate on striking the CB correctly. This is similar to putting a golf ball by finding the aimline to the cup, and then stroking through the ball along that line.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TonyM:</font><hr> I also think that the exact contact on the cueball is less important than some people think. Squirt actually is self correcting for errors at the cueball. This is how backhand english works after all. So if you can pivot your back hand and add 1/2" of english and still make the ball, why would you not also make it if you accidentally added only 1mm?

The key is to have the cue aligned correctly BEFORE you stroke the ball. If you can do that, then it shouldn't really matter what your eyes are looking at. . . .<hr></blockquote>I also believe in a 'margin for error' when it comes to the aim point on the OB. Here's the idea:

Imagine the two endpoints of the area/line in which the ball can be pocketed (from "robbing the pocket" on one side to the other), and then imagine two lines from the endpoints, crossing through the center of the OB, and stopping at the equator of the ball. The arc section defined between the two points on the ball is the general area in which the OB may be struck, and still pocket the ball. (You must account for speed/power of hit and any added spin seperately.)

Diagram: http://heater451.tripod.com/ (Click on the "Margin for Error" link.)

This just allows room for the OB aim, or the CB strike to be off a bit.--Although, I do think that even 1 mm is can still be a lot, especially if you strike hard.



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09-03-2002, 09:54 AM

Jay M
09-03-2002, 10:10 AM
Personally, I find that looking at the waitresses provides the most enjoyment in the game.

Jay M

bluewolf
09-03-2002, 10:45 AM
this discussion has revealed that people have different styles regarding this. this leads me to think that if the shot is lined up and the stroke is sure,it doesnt matter which one you look at last.&lt;G&gt;

bluewolf

bluewolf
09-03-2002, 10:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> I used to shoot looking at the cue ball last, for 2 years. There is one danger in that. It is human nature to focus more on the cue ball too much during your practice strokes. Thus, the ‘focus’ of your eye will be more suited for things closer than for far away items. The object ball WILL GET SMALLER if you do this. <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>

in art, this is called vanishing point.of course far away things look smaller. that is why they invented binoculars and zoom lenses.&lt;g&gt;

bluewolf