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Qtec
11-11-2010, 05:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In polite circles, among our political and financial classes, this is known as “the free market at work.” No, it’s “wage repression,” and it’s been happening in our country since around 1980. I must invoke some statistics here, knowing that statistics can glaze the eyes; but if indeed it’s the mark of a truly educated person to be deeply moved by statistics, as I once read, surely this truly educated audience will be moved by the recent analysis of tax data by the economists Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez. They found that from 1950 through 1980, the share of all income in America going to everyone but the rich increased from 64 percent to 65 percent. Because the nation’s economy was growing handsomely, the average income for 9 out of l0 Americans was growing, too – <span style='font-size: 14pt'>from $17,719 to $30,941. That’s a 75 percent increase in income in constant 2008 dollars.</span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>But then it stopped. Since 1980 the economy has also continued to grow handsomely, but only a fraction at the top have benefitted. The line flattens for the bottom 90% of Americans. Average income went from that $30,941 in 1980 to $31,244 in 2008. <u>Think about that: the average income of Americans increased just $303 dollars in 28 years.</span>

That’s wage repression.</u> </div></div>

link (http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/americans-overwhelmingly-support-wealth-red)

...........and the GOP want more tax cuts for the rich.

Q

Gayle in MD
11-11-2010, 06:01 AM
And anything else the rich would like, nothing is too much for Republicans assure, includng a bye for hit and run....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


From Tuesdays' democracynow.org:

A wealthy hedge fund manager in Colorado has avoided facing felony charges for a hit-and-run accident because the local district attorney felt the charge could impact his high-paying job. Martin Erzinger, a fund manager at Smith Barney, allegedly ran over a cyclist with his Mercedes and then fled the scene. The cyclist suffered spinal cord injuries and bleeding from his brain. To the shock of cycling advocates, the local prosecutor, Mark Hurlbert, decided to charge Erzinger only with misdemeanors. Hurlbert said, “Felony convictions have some pretty serious job implications for someone in Mr. Erzinger’s profession, and that entered into it."


...and that's how the game is played.


<span style="color: #CC0000">From your link: </span>





Just as a reference point, here's the data they were polling about:

The gap between the wealthiest Americans and the poorest is bigger than at any time since the 1920s — just before the Depression. According to an analysis this year by Edward Wolff of New York University, the top 20% of wealthy individuals own about 85% of the wealth, while the bottom 40% own very near 0%. Many in that bottom 40% not only have no assets, they have negative net wealth.

There is a lesson here for the President and Democrats, and the rest of us. Start framing your tax cut message as something ALL Americans want. Point out that the wealth disparity curve looks like it did just before we were plunged into the Great Depression. Hammer home the idea that the stimulus bill saved us from the brink of it but if we don't start following through with some policies that actually help the poor and middle class climb out of their repression, we're heading back into an abyss.

It's time to say the corporate emperor has no clothes.





</div></div>

G.

LWW
11-11-2010, 06:04 AM
WOW!

Since 1980 the democrooks have held the congress for 18 of 30 years ... why haven't they stopped this?

The democrooks have held the White House for 10 of the last 18 years ... why haven't they stopped this?

The democrooks have held both for the last 2 years ... why haven't they stopped this?

The democrooks are a party filled with uber wealthy old money types that have benefitted from what you lament, as well as being full of ex Goldman-Sachs and other ex Wall Street big wigs ... why is that?

Do you ever look to inspect what is on the spoon?

Of course you don't.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/lww/ONLINE%20ARGUMENTS/Snoopy.jpg

LWW

Qtec
11-12-2010, 02:29 AM
Who the hell cares who's fault it is, its just a sad fact which you completely ignore. So does the GOP.

Another fact is that GW's tax cuts for the rich- which he had to borrow for- produced an all time low in job creation. Now the GOP want to do it again. ie more wealth redistribution to the top 2%.



Q

LWW
11-12-2010, 03:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the hell cares who's fault it is


Q </div></div>

Obviously you do since you started the thread by pointing a finger at one side and then followed up by sacrificing your dignity by deflecting ... lamely ... the conversation away from the truth.

No, can you for once ... just <u><span style='font-family: Arial Black'><span style='font-size: 26pt'>ONCE</span></span></u> ... actually address the issue at hand?

LWW

Gayle in MD
11-12-2010, 08:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the hell cares who's fault it is, its just a sad fact which you completely ignore. So does the GOP.

Another fact is that GW's tax cuts for the rich- which he had to borrow for- produced an all time low in job creation. Now the GOP want to do it again. ie more wealth redistribution to the top 2%.



Q </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The gap between the wealthiest Americans and the poorest is bigger than at any time since the 1920s — just before the Depression. According to an analysis this year by Edward Wolff of New York University, the top 20% of wealthy individuals own about 85% of the wealth, while the bottom 40% own very near 0%. Many in that bottom 40% not only have no assets, they have negative net wealth.

There is a lesson here for the President and Democrats, and the rest of us. Start framing your tax cut message as something ALL Americans want. Point out that the wealth disparity curve looks like it did just before we were plunged into the Great Depression. Hammer home the idea that the stimulus bill saved us from the brink of it but if we don't start following through with some policies that actually help the poor and middle class climb out of their repression, we're heading back into an abyss.

It's time to say the corporate emperor has no clothes.


</div></div>

If a total econmic collapse after eight years of Bush, didn't open their eyes, but instead, they rushed out to order his BS book as fast as they could, and vote the SOB's who destroyed the economy, his blank check, earmark loving, corrupted poor excuses for human beings, back into office AGAIN, Nothing will Ever open their eyes, they prefer blind partisanjnship, and slander, to truth.

eg8r
11-12-2010, 08:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the hell cares who's fault it is</div></div>Since when did you get all high and mighty and quit caring about who is at fault?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-12-2010, 08:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the hell cares who's fault it is</div></div>Since when did you get all high and mighty and quit caring about who is at fault?

eg8r </div></div>

What does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

BTW, Congrats on your Las vegas win. Hope you enjoyed the twinkie. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif How come you didn't post about it on the pool side, too?
G.

eg8r
11-12-2010, 09:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

</div></div>I replied to his comment. If he did not want it to be discussed then he did not need to bring it up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, Congrats on your Las vegas win. Hope you enjoyed the twinkie. How come you didn't post about it on the pool side, too?
</div></div>Thanks. I had a smile on my face all day. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif The twinkie was great. Thank goodness I don't have access to that kind of stuff. I never thought about posting the video on the pool side though, there really was no reason to not do it.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-12-2010, 09:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

</div></div>I replied to his comment. If he did not want it to be discussed then he did not need to bring it up.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> Oh, OK then... </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, Congrats on your Las vegas win. Hope you enjoyed the twinkie. How come you didn't post about it on the pool side, too?
</div></div>Thanks. I had a smile on my face all day. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif The twinkie was great. Thank goodness I don't have access to that kind of stuff. I never thought about posting the video on the pool side though, there really was no reason to not do it.

eg8r </div></div>

LWW
11-12-2010, 10:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the hell cares who's fault it is</div></div>Since when did you get all high and mighty and quit caring about who is at fault?

eg8r </div></div>

That usually follows him crashing and burning.

LWW

Qtec
11-12-2010, 08:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously you do since you started the thread by pointing a finger at one side </div></div>

Nothing in what I quoted or said pointed the finger at one side for the present inequality.

My point is that YOU have been whining for 2 years about how Obama wants to redistribute the wealth when its been happening for long before Obama. Silently and going in the wrong wrong direction.

Q

Qtec
11-12-2010, 08:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since when did you get all high and mighty and quit caring about who is at fault?

eg8r </div></div>

All I am trying to do is establish ONE TRUTH that we can all agree on based on REAL facts.

ie,


Over the last 30 years , the rich have got richer and they are against a minimum wage.

The middle class are getting foreclosed on false docs fabricated by the banks but the super rich are in for a great pay day if they can keep their huge Tax Cuts , paid for by borrowing from the Chinese!

So much for the deficit they were all whining about.





Q

wolfdancer
11-12-2010, 09:24 PM
I think we can all agree on that !!!!
$$$ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7wKHIYysjY&feature=related)

eg8r
11-13-2010, 01:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Over the last 30 years , the rich have got richer and they are against a minimum wage.

</div></div>There is a quote that I am sure you would have trouble arguing against and it goes a little like this...The rich continue to do the things that made them rich while the poor continue to do the things that made them poor. Would you not agree? Why do you find fault with it?

As far as mininum wage is concerned, I don't think it should just be raised and raised and raised. I think the pay should be based on the work performed, NOT whether you can support a family of 4 on it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The middle class are getting foreclosed on false docs fabricated by the banks</div></div>What about the middle class that are getting foreclosed because they borrowed money at a rate which they could not repay?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but the super rich are in for a great pay day if they can keep their huge Tax Cuts , paid for by borrowing from the Chinese!

</div></div>What about going to thing Chinese to pay for all the gross negligent federal spending?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-13-2010, 12:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously you do since you started the thread by pointing a finger at one side </div></div>

Nothing in what I quoted or said pointed the finger at one side for the present inequality.

My point is that YOU have been whining for 2 years about how Obama wants to redistribute the wealth when its been happening for long before Obama. Silently and going in the wrong wrong direction.

Q </div></div>

<span style="color: #CC0000">Ha ha ha, he knew right away which party is resposible for wage repression, and took offense, LMAO! </span>

wolfdancer
11-13-2010, 01:24 PM
$300 plus, in 28 years, while prices rose steadily in that same time frame, thus reducing an individual's buying power......
It's a minor miracle that we are not in a depression....
The redistribution of the wealth in this country....is alarming.
If the trend continues, I may have to seek out an old pool hall character, "Nebraska", and learn from him some new OTJ skills, to supplement my income, which will soon be less then my outcome.
Nebraska was a "legendary" pick pocket, who as those skills eroded over time, became a pretty good "booster"...shoplifter.
But, sadly I believe he has passed on and is now stealing the wings off the angels....

Qtec
11-13-2010, 08:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a quote that I am sure you would have trouble arguing against </div></div>

You must be joking, right?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rich continue to do the things that made them rich while the poor continue to do the things that made them poor. </div></div>

Things have changed. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Its noteworthy to mention you seem to totally ignore the shift in wealth distribution. Like it doesn't matter. </span>[ In the 60,s, the poor were 15% of the pop, now its 50%. ]

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The less Americans have to spend, the less demand for products. Does that make sense? </span>

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Money has to circulate.</span> The more money concentrated in a very select few is bad for the economy and gives the super rich the ability to buy politicians for their OWN profit, the good of the country doesn't come into it.

The most obvious examples of politicians working for the elite and not Joe sixpack is the insistence of GOP to keep the Bush Tax Cuts for the rich and this constant whine about the estate tax.


Q


Q. Lets say you have a business and you make 2 M $.
On the first M you pay the going rate but on the next M you pay 80% tax.

ie, you can take 200,000 cash and the rest goes to the Fed or you can invest that M in a new business and you don't have to pay any tax.

If its the other way around you would just take the 800 grand and buy no risk bonds and pay the 200 Grand.

Which scenario encourages risk?

Qtec
11-13-2010, 09:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the middle class that are getting foreclosed because they borrowed money at a rate which they could not repay? </div></div>

You still hang on to the mantra,

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"its all the poor peoples fault."</span>

The American economy, the banks, were on the brink of disaster because Joe Six Pack couldn't meet his payments!



Read this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When credit markets froze up in fall of 2008, many economists pronounced the crisis inexplicable and unforeseeable. Lawyers who specialize in financial regulation, and especially the small cadre who specialize in derivatives regulation, knew better. (Some had even predicted the crisis; see the Readings below.) That's because the roots of the catastrophe lay not in changes in the markets, but changes in the law. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>In particular, the credit crisis can be traced to Congress's 2000 passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which radically altered the traditional legal approach to financial derivatives.</span>

<span style="color: #3333FF">ie under the Law, these new derivatives that were considered to be gambling, were given an exception.</span>

This shift in the legal treatment of financial derivatives has brought the banking system to its knees. The leading cause of the credit crisis was widespread uncertainty over insurance giant AIG's trading losses in the new and rapidly growing market for credit default swaps (CDSs), a kind of derivative bet that issuers will not default on their bond obligations. Because AIG was part of an already enormous and poorly understood web of CDS bets and counter-bets among the world's largest banks, investment funds, and insurance companies, when AIG collapsed, many of those firms worried that they too might soon be bankrupt. Only a massive $180 billion government-funded bailout of AIG prevented the entire system from imploding.

This could have been avoided if we had kept the traditional approach to derivatives regulation.

Wait a minute, some readers might say. What do you mean, traditional approach to derivatives regulation? Aren't derivatives some new, modern financial "innovation" that has never been regulated?

This was allowed because wagers can be useful for hedging against risk. For example, if you own a corporate bond and you are worried the issuer might default, you can hedge that risk by entering a CDS contract, essentially betting against the issuer's creditworthiness. If the bond decreases in value, the CDS increases. Similarly, if you own a $500,000 home, you can hedge the risk your home will burn down by making a bet with a fire insurance company to pay you $500,000 if the home actually burns. (Most of us call these wagers "insurance," although a Wall Street derivatives dealer might label them "home value swaps.") Using derivatives this way is truly hedging, and it serves a useful social purpose by reducing risk.

But as common-law judges recognized for centuries, derivative bets are also ideally suited for pure speculation. Speculation is the attempt to profit not from producing something, or even from providing investment funds to someone else who is producing something, but from predicting the future better than others predict it. A speculator might, for example, try to make money predicting wildfires by buying fire insurance on houses in Southern California without actually owning the houses themselves. Similarly, a speculator might hope to profit from betting on a company's fate by buying CDSs on the company's bonds without buying the bonds themselves.

Speculation is a zero-sum game where one party's trading gains always mirror the other's trading losses. But at least when a speculator trades with a hedger, the trade reduces the hedger's risk. When a speculator trades with another speculator, however (one speculator thinks prices or interest rates or credit ratings are going up, the other thinks they're going down), <span style='font-size: 17pt'>speculation increases speculators' risks, much the same way gambling increases gamblers' risks. Highly speculative markets are also historically associated with asset price bubbles, reduced returns, price manipulation schemes, and other economic ills.</span> </div></div>

link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb262/is_3_32/ai_n39250227/?tag=content;col1)



Q...read this, this is reality.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matt Taibbi: <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Courts Helping Banks Screw Over Homeowners
Retired judges are rushing through complex cases to speed foreclosures in Florida</span>

Foreclosure lawyers told me one other thing about the rocket docket. The hearings, they said, aren't exactly public. "The judges might give you a hard time about watching," one lawyer warned. "They're not exactly anxious for people to know about this stuff." Inwardly, I laughed at this — it sounded like typical activist paranoia. The notion that a judge would try to prevent any citizen, much less a member of the media, from watching an open civil hearing sounded ridiculous. Fucked-up as everyone knows the state of Florida is, <span style='font-size: 20pt'>it couldn't be that bad. It isn't Indonesia. Right?</span></div></div>




read it! (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/232611)

eg8r
11-14-2010, 03:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its noteworthy to mention you seem to totally ignore the shift in wealth distribution. Like it doesn't matter. [ In the 60,s, the poor were 15% of the pop, now its 50%. ]

</div></div>OK, it is time that you go next door and ask the neighbor to borrow his common sense. The rich do the things that make them rich and this has little to nothing to do with government.

eg8r

eg8r
11-14-2010, 03:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You still hang on to the mantra,

"its all the poor peoples fault."

</div></div>As long as your are hung up on the mantra that the only responsible party is the bank I will continue to offer the other side. You like your tunnel vision and I refuse to allow that to be the only voice.

eg8r