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View Full Version : A conservative view of thanksgiving.



LWW
11-24-2010, 05:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"On August 1, 1620, the Mayflower set sail. It carried a total of 102 passengers, including forty Pilgrims led by William Bradford. On the journey, Bradford set up an agreement, a contract, that established just and equal laws for all members of the new community, irrespective of their religious beliefs. Where did the revolutionary ideas expressed in the Mayflower Compact come from? From the Bible," and this is what's not taught. This is what's left out. "The Pilgrims were a people completely steeped in the lessons of the Old and New Testaments. They looked to the ancient Israelites for their example. And, because of the biblical precedents set forth in Scripture, they never doubted that their experiment would work. But this was no pleasure cruise, friends. The journey to the New World was a long and arduous one. And when the Pilgrims landed in New England in November, they found, according to Bradford's detailed journal, a cold, barren, desolate wilderness. There were no friends to greet them, he wrote. There were no houses to shelter them. There were no inns where they could refresh themselves. And the sacrifice they had made for freedom was just beginning. During the first winter, half the Pilgrims -- including Bradford's own wife -- died of either starvation, sickness, or exposure.

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"When spring finally came, Indians taught the settlers how to plant corn, fish for cod and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but they did not yet prosper! This is important to understand because this is where modern American history lessons often end. Thanksgiving is actually explained in some textbooks as a holiday for which the Pilgrims gave thanks to the Indians for saving their lives, rather than as a devout expression of gratitude grounded in the tradition of both the Old and New Testaments. Here is the part that has been omitted: The original contract the Pilgrims had entered into with their merchant-sponsors in London called for everything they produced to go into a common store, and each member of the community was entitled to one common share. All of the land they cleared and the houses they built belong to the community as well."</span> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>They were collectivists! Now, "Bradford, who had become the new governor of the colony, recognized that this form of collectivism was as costly and destructive to the Pilgrims as that first harsh winter, which had taken so many lives.</span>

"He decided to take bold action. Bradford assigned a plot of land to each family to work and manage, thus turning loose the power of the marketplace. ... <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Long before Karl Marx was even born, the Pilgrims had discovered and experimented with what could only be described as socialism. And what happened? It didn't work! Surprise, surprise, huh? What Bradford and his community found was that the most creative and industrious people had no incentive to work any harder than anyone else, unless they could utilize the power of personal motivation! But while most of the rest of the world has been experimenting with socialism for well over a hundred years -- trying to refine it, perfect it, and re-invent it -- the Pilgrims decided early on to scrap it permanently. What Bradford wrote about this social experiment should be in every schoolchild's history lesson," every kid gets. "If it were, we might prevent much needless suffering in the future." Here's what he wrote:</span> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>"'The experience that we had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years...that by taking away property, and bringing community into a common wealth, would make them happy and flourishing -- as if they were wiser than God,' Bradford wrote.

"'For this community [so far as it was] was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For young men that were most able and fit for labor and service did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children without any recompense...that was thought injustice.'"</span> That was thought injustice. "Do you hear what he was saying, ladies and gentlemen? The Pilgrims found that people could not be expected to do their best work without incentive. So what did Bradford's community try next? They unharnessed the power of good old free enterprise by invoking the undergirding capitalistic principle of private property. Every family was assigned its own plot of land to work and permitted to market its own crops and products. And what was the result?" 'This had very good success,' wrote Bradford, "for it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been." Bradford doesn't sound like much of a Clintonite, does he? Is it possible that supply-side economics could have existed before the 1980s? ... In no time, the Pilgrims found they had more food than they could eat themselves. ... So they set up trading posts and exchanged goods with the Indians.

"The profits allowed them to pay off their debts to the merchants in London. And the success and prosperity of the Plymouth settlement attracted more Europeans and began what came to be known as the 'Great Puritan Migration.'" Now, aside from this program, have you heard this before? Is this "being taught to children -- and if not, why not? I mean, is there a more important lesson one could derive from the Pilgrim experience than this?" What if Bill and Hillary Clinton had been exposed to these lessons in school? Do you realize what we face in next year's election is the equivalent of people who want to set up these original collectivists communes that didn't work, with nobody having incentive to do anything except get on the government dole somehow because the people running the government want that kind of power. So the Pilgrims decided to thank God for all of their good fortune. And that's Thanksgiving. And read George Washington's first Thanksgiving address and count the number of times God is mentioned and how many times he's thanked. None of this is taught today. It should be. Have a happy Thanksgiving, folks. You deserve it. Do what you can to be happy, and especially do what you can to be thankful, because in this country you have more reasons than you've ever stopped to consider.</div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_112310/content/01125111.guest.html)

LWW

cushioncrawler
11-24-2010, 02:54 PM
So how kum finance-prix who dont own land nor work any land end up owning all the corn and all the land????

So how kum the injuns were thrown off their land -- land the injuns had payd-off thousands of years ago??????

So how kum Indians are now prospering and the usofa iz going down?????

To where will the next great puritan migration be to -- India???????
mac.

Deeman3
11-24-2010, 02:59 PM
Mac,

Sort of like the Austrailians did with the lands of their native people?

At least we let them have casinos and all the fire water they could possibly use.

cushioncrawler
11-24-2010, 03:45 PM
Yes -- same story here too -- the natives were systematikally shoted and poizoned and reserved and diseased -- and children stoled and Goded.
mac.

Nearly forgot -- this iz good -- Ozz outdid theusofa here -- get this....
..... In ozz, bands of "wandering" aborigines found themselves nuked -- this woz at maralinga -- during joint british/ozz atom bomb tests.

Did theusofa nuke any injuns????????

cushioncrawler
11-24-2010, 04:10 PM
An Indian reservation is an area of land managed by a Native American tribe under the United States Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs. There are about 310 Indian reservations in the United States, meaning not all of the country's 550-plus recognized tribes have a reservation — some tribes have more than one reservation, some share reservations, while others have none. In addition, because of past land allotments, leading to some sales to non-Indians, some reservations are severely fragmented, with each piece of tribal, individual, and privately held land being a separate enclave. This jumble of private and public real estate creates significant administrative and political/legal difficulties.[1]

The collective geographical area of all reservations is 55.7 million acres (225,410 kmē), representing 2.3% of the area of the United States (2,379,400,204 acres; 9,629,091 kmē). Twelve Indian reservations are larger than the state of Rhode Island (776,960 acres; 3,144 kmē) and nine reservations larger than Delaware (1,316,480 acres; 5,327 kmē). The territory of the Navajo Nation compares in size to West Virginia. Reservations are unevenly distributed throughout the country; the majority are west of the Mississippi River and occupy lands that were first reserved by treaty or 'granted' from the public domain.[2]

Deeman3
11-24-2010, 04:17 PM
No doubt we both mistreated the original inhabitants almost every dominant culture has and some still do.

sack316
11-24-2010, 04:57 PM
no worries... the meek shall inherit the Earth.... when we're done with it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYE9ZkvlXg

Sack

hondo
11-25-2010, 07:05 AM
I saw a cartoon about the first Thanksgiving.
The indian said, " Me bringum elk, maize, beans. What you um bring?"
The pilgrim said, " Smallpox."

cushioncrawler
11-25-2010, 03:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"On August 1, 1620, the Mayflower set sail. It carried a total of 102 passengers, including forty Pilgrims led by William Bradford. On the journey, Bradford set up an agreement, a contract, that established just and equal laws for all members of the new community, irrespective of their religious beliefs. Where did the revolutionary ideas expressed in the Mayflower Compact come from? From the Bible," and this is what's not taught. This is what's left out. "The Pilgrims were a people completely steeped in the lessons of the Old and New Testaments. They looked to the ancient Israelites for their example. And, because of the biblical precedents set forth in Scripture, they never doubted that their experiment would work. But this was no pleasure cruise, friends. The journey to the New World was a long and arduous one. And when the Pilgrims landed in New England in November, they found, according to Bradford's detailed journal, a cold, barren, desolate wilderness. There were no friends to greet them, he wrote. There were no houses to shelter them. There were no inns where they could refresh themselves. And the sacrifice they had made for freedom was just beginning. During the first winter, half the Pilgrims -- including Bradford's own wife -- died of either starvation, sickness, or exposure.

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"When spring finally came, Indians taught the settlers how to plant corn, fish for cod and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but they did not yet prosper! This is important to understand because this is where modern American history lessons often end. Thanksgiving is actually explained in some textbooks as a holiday for which the Pilgrims gave thanks to the Indians for saving their lives, rather than as a devout expression of gratitude grounded in the tradition of both the Old and New Testaments. Here is the part that has been omitted: The original contract the Pilgrims had entered into with their merchant-sponsors in London called for everything they produced to go into a common store, and each member of the community was entitled to one common share. All of the land they cleared and the houses they built belong to the community as well."</span> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>They were collectivists! Now, "Bradford, who had become the new governor of the colony, recognized that this form of collectivism was as costly and destructive to the Pilgrims as that first harsh winter, which had taken so many lives.</span>

"He decided to take bold action. Bradford assigned a plot of land to each family to work and manage, thus turning loose the power of the marketplace. ... <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Long before Karl Marx was even born, the Pilgrims had discovered and experimented with what could only be described as socialism. And what happened? It didn't work! Surprise, surprise, huh? What Bradford and his community found was that the most creative and industrious people had no incentive to work any harder than anyone else, unless they could utilize the power of personal motivation! But while most of the rest of the world has been experimenting with socialism for well over a hundred years -- trying to refine it, perfect it, and re-invent it -- the Pilgrims decided early on to scrap it permanently. What Bradford wrote about this social experiment should be in every schoolchild's history lesson," every kid gets. "If it were, we might prevent much needless suffering in the future." Here's what he wrote:</span> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>"'The experience that we had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years...that by taking away property, and bringing community into a common wealth, would make them happy and flourishing -- as if they were wiser than God,' Bradford wrote.

"'For this community [so far as it was] was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For young men that were most able and fit for labor and service did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children without any recompense...that was thought injustice.'"</span> That was thought injustice. "Do you hear what he was saying, ladies and gentlemen? The Pilgrims found that people could not be expected to do their best work without incentive. So what did Bradford's community try next? They unharnessed the power of good old free enterprise by invoking the undergirding capitalistic principle of private property. Every family was assigned its own plot of land to work and permitted to market its own crops and products. And what was the result?" 'This had very good success,' wrote Bradford, "for it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been." Bradford doesn't sound like much of a Clintonite, does he? Is it possible that supply-side economics could have existed before the 1980s? ... In no time, the Pilgrims found they had more food than they could eat themselves. ... So they set up trading posts and exchanged goods with the Indians.

"The profits allowed them to pay off their debts to the merchants in London. And the success and prosperity of the Plymouth settlement attracted more Europeans and began what came to be known as the 'Great Puritan Migration.'" Now, aside from this program, have you heard this before? Is this "being taught to children -- and if not, why not? I mean, is there a more important lesson one could derive from the Pilgrim experience than this?" What if Bill and Hillary Clinton had been exposed to these lessons in school? Do you realize what we face in next year's election is the equivalent of people who want to set up these original collectivists communes that didn't work, with nobody having incentive to do anything except get on the government dole somehow because the people running the government want that kind of power. So the Pilgrims decided to thank God for all of their good fortune. And that's Thanksgiving. And read George Washington's first Thanksgiving address and count the number of times God is mentioned and how many times he's thanked. None of this is taught today. It should be. Have a happy Thanksgiving, folks. You deserve it. Do what you can to be happy, and especially do what you can to be thankful, because in this country you have more reasons than you've ever stopped to consider.........</div></div>Dubb -- This iz mostly bullshit.
Whats this bullshit about the rest of the world experimenting with socializm for a 100 yrs -- there woz little or no socializm in the world -- kapitalizm woz everywhere in the world -- mostly forms of slavery in fakt.
Whats this bullshit about free enterprise -- all the world had free enterprise -- and i dont think it woz Bradford's idea in New Plimouth anyhow.
And i dont think Bradford's wife died in New Plimouth -- didnt she fall overboard (pushed????).
And, were they happy and flourishing after getting their own plots??? -- no!!!!!! -- famine and hardships continued.
Enuff food left over to trade with the natives -- bullshit -- it woz the natives who had food -- for this the natives got a few shitty allmost useless tools.

No mention here of the newcomers and the poor and the widows and orphans all being given a fair share of food etc.
No mention here of the continuation of the system that a portion of produktion go into a common store.
No mention here of the continuation of the system that half of one's excess produktion go into a common pool -- for the good government -- ie a tax.
No mention here that the land woznt aktually owned by u -- u koodnt sell it etc.
No mention that they inkreeced their big-gov from 1 man to 7 men.
No mention that later they had to hav a division of cattle etc, to help produktion and efficiency.

In the first years they had bad seed, bad ground, bad seasons, bad health -- they lost houses to fire -- they had no good equipment (eg for grinding corn) -- many newcomers brort no food with them -- they had food theft.
They stole food (corn) from the natives.

Even in the early "bad" years, they sent shiploads of goods back to England -- but most of theze were pirated by the Turks and French -- or koodnt be landed at the proper ports koz England woz at war.
Oh -- yes -- and the rest of the commentary iz bullshit too.
mac.

Qtec
11-26-2010, 01:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dubb -- This iz mostly bullshit.
Whats this bullshit about the rest of the world experimenting with socializm for a 100 yrs -- there woz little or no socializm in the world -- kapitalizm woz everywhere in the world -- mostly forms of slavery in fakt.
Whats this bullshit about free enterprise -- all the world had free enterprise -- and i dont think it woz Bradford's idea in New Plimouth anyhow.
And i dont think Bradford's wife died in New Plimouth -- didnt she fall overboard (pushed????).
And, were they happy and flourishing after getting their own plots??? -- no!!!!!! -- famine and hardships continued.
Enuff food left over to trade with the natives -- bullshit -- it woz the natives who had food -- for this the natives got a few shitty allmost useless tools.

No mention here of the newcomers and the poor and the widows and orphans all being given a fair share of food etc.
No mention here of the continuation of the system that a portion of produktion go into a common store.
No mention here of the continuation of the system that half of one's excess produktion go into a common pool -- for the good government -- ie a tax.
No mention here that the land woznt aktually owned by u -- u koodnt sell it etc.
No mention that they inkreeced their big-gov from 1 man to 7 men.
No mention that later they had to hav a division of cattle etc, to help produktion and efficiency.

In the first years they had bad seed, bad ground, bad seasons, bad health -- they lost houses to fire -- they had no good equipment (eg for grinding corn) -- many newcomers brort no food with them -- they had food theft.
They stole food (corn) from the natives.

Even in the early "bad" years, they sent shiploads of goods back to England -- but most of theze were pirated by the Turks and French -- or koodnt be landed at the proper ports koz England woz at war.
Oh -- yes -- and the rest of the commentary iz bullshit too.
mac. </div></div>

OH DEAR!

Thanks Mac for taking that piece of garbage from Limbaugh to pieces. Saved me the time.

Can't wait for LWW's reply. Bet its a one liner. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Q

Qtec
11-26-2010, 02:12 AM
LOL. Shame on you for posting this piece of crap.

Like I said before, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. If you believe the crap that Rush spouted then you are not as bright as Deeman thinks you are.

Mac just shot you down.

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/pacificwar/265.jpg


http://www.critical-hits.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/RPG_plane_2.jpg


Q /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

LWW
11-26-2010, 03:25 AM
Actually, it doesn't deserve a reply.

That being said, it was a typical leftists rant against the hard facts of history.

But ... why trust the words of those who were there when you can listen to a leftists rant from centuries away in time?

LWW