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LWW
11-26-2010, 03:44 AM
Another social democracy crashes on the shoals of fiscal reality:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Belgium joins financial markets' hit list

Traders push cost of insuring Belgium's debts to record levels in situation made worse by broken political system

Talk in the cafes of Bruges is less of Christmas markets than the rising cost of financing Belgium's national debt.

Hold the moules et frites: Belgium has joined Portugal, Spain and Italy on the hit list of countries that may be heading for financial crisis.

In the bars of Antwerp and the cafes of Bruges, the talk is less of Christmas markets and hot chocolate than of the rising cost of financing a national debt which stands at 100% of annual national income.

Like Ireland, struggling to fend off criticism of its austerity package, there are signs that international bond investors are starting to view Belgium as living on borrowed money and borrowed time.

To make matters worse, it has a broken political system and is without a government since April. International money market traders today pushed the cost of insuring Belgium's debts to record levels. The interest payments still fall short of those charged for Spain's government the Portuguese, but analysts said the gap was narrowing quickly.

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"Belgium is having to pay a political risk premium, because it still doesn't have a government in place to make decisions over how to curb its spending and its debts, which is what the market wants to see,"</span> said one analyst.

While the rest of the continent has wrestled with the question of what to cut and when in an effort to control government spending, the 10 million Belgians have been locked in a three-year row between Flemings and Walloons over how to govern a constituency encompassing Brussels and its suburbs, focus of a dispute over voting rights among the language groups.

In April the government of two times prime minister Yves Leterme collapsed when he failed to resolve what had become a constitutional crisis centred on the linguistically at odds constituency of Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde. An election in June split the country. The majority of Flemish voters want a dose of British-style austerity, a range of socialist parties from both parts of the country - which as a group did fairly well in the election and form the largest bloc - refuse to agree any cuts.

In the febrile atmosphere of trading in government debt, any country without a coherent plan can be seen as irresponsible or with something to hide.

In short, the next Ireland.

The premium to insure Belgium's debts rose 5% today: it now costs £155,000 to insure £10m of Belgian bonds against the possibility of default. The cost for Spain and Portugal The cost of insuring Spanish and Portuguese debt also rose again, £312,000 and £510,000 respectively.

A government spokesman denied that Belgium was in trouble, saying makes the character of our debts very different to the UK.

"We are net savers. So our government does not need to refinance its debts in the same way as the UK, which has borrowed more internationally."

He conceded the political situation was unresolved, but Belgium was stable.

"It's unfortunate we must wait to form a new government, but it's a democratic process and we'll resolve it in time."

• This article was amended on 24 and 25 November. The original said that Flemish Christian Democrats (CD&V) made the biggest seat gains in June's elections, and referred to BHV as an ethnically divided constituency on the outskirts of Brussels. This has been corrected.</div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/24/belgium-financial-markets-hit-list)

LWW

cushioncrawler
11-26-2010, 04:16 AM
This iz bullshit.
This iz krappynomix.
mac.

Qtec
11-26-2010, 04:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>Traders</span> push cost of insuring Belgium's debts to record levels </div></div>

Traders. The stock market ie the most Capitalistic entity in the entire universe.

Iceland, Greece, Rep of Ireland...have all gone broke. Was that their fault or was it the BANKS???

What caused the economic crisis, the bailouts and the recession....socialism......... or the BANKS?????

Unregulated Capitalism has failed miserably. That's a fact.


Q

LWW
11-26-2010, 04:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>Traders</span> push cost of insuring Belgium's debts to record levels </div></div>

Traders. The stock market ie the most Capitalistic entity in the entire universe.

Iceland, Greece, Rep of Ireland...have all gone broke. Was that their fault or was it the BANKS???

What caused the economic crisis, the bailouts and the recession....socialism......... or the BANKS?????

Unregulated Capitalism has failed miserably. That's a fact.


Q </div></div>

Spoken by a man defending the socialist economy of a nation with a King.

LWW

Qtec
11-26-2010, 05:00 AM
Spoken like the one liner King.

Again..........the smart one has no answer to a simple question.

Q

LWW
11-26-2010, 05:35 AM
That's because you didn't ask a coherent question ... merely absolved a state controlled economy of all wrongdoing because of unfettered capitalism which, in this day and age, is simply a myth.

Do you even understand the economics of your own nation?

Do you even know what capitalism means?

I can lead you to knowledge ... I can't make you think.

LWW

Chopstick
11-26-2010, 10:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>Traders</span> push cost of insuring Belgium's debts to record levels </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">Finish the sentence:

Traders push cost of insuring Belgium's debts to record levels in situation made worse by <span style='font-size: 14pt'>broken political system</span>

Traders do not create uncontrollable debt. Broken political ideologies do.</span>



Traders. The stock market ie the most Capitalistic entity in the entire universe.

<span style="color: #000099">Bless their greedy little hearts.</span>

Iceland, Greece, Rep of Ireland...have all gone broke. Was that their fault or was it the BANKS???

<span style="color: #000099">Yes. And their banks played along with it.</span>

What caused the economic crisis, the bailouts and the recession....socialism......... or the BANKS?????

<span style="color: #000099">Socialism. And it will continue until we get rid of it.</span>

Unregulated Capitalism has failed miserably. That's a fact.

<span style="color: #000099">That is your opinion. It does not make it a fact.</span>


Q </div></div>

LWW
11-26-2010, 12:08 PM
Have you ever noticed how Q sees unfettered capitalism as the reason for the failure of all these socialist/fascist economies?

Doublethink can, and does, make it's practitioners believe anything.

LWW

pooltchr
11-26-2010, 12:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The stock market ie the most Capitalistic entity in the entire universe.

Q </div></div>

The stock market is a result of the capitalist system. If it the thing that allows individuals and groups of people to invest their money in businesses they believe will be profitable and offer a return on their investment (stock dividends)
It is also the best way for businesses to raise capital for growth and expansion.
Individuals actually have the opportunity to own a piece of a company that they might otherwise never be able to own.
How many of us have the means to own a company like Coca Cola, or Ford? Very few of us. But stock ownership lets us all participate, not just the wealthy. Now isn't that what you all have been crying over? How the rich can invest as a tax shelter, while the poor and middle class get left out in the cold? So how is an entity that allows everyone to participate in business ownership be such a bad thing?

Of course, there is always a risk attached to a potential reward, so people who don't know what they are doing are better off letting someone else handle their investments. And people who do that for a living deserve to get paid for their knowledge, don't they?

So tell us, please, how the stock market is a bad thing.
Steve

Sev
11-26-2010, 05:05 PM
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Let them eat cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!</span>

Chopstick
11-29-2010, 08:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And people who do that for a living deserve to get paid for their knowledge, don't they?
</div></div>

And put their cash on the line and assume the risk. Wanna play some 9 ball for 250K a game? Even the small traders will make trades like that. How's your nerve? The first time you do it, it feels like your eyeballs are going to pop out of your head.

Qtec
11-30-2010, 02:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And put <span style='font-size: 17pt'>their cash</span> on the line and assume the risk. </div></div>

is it their own money?

Q

LWW
11-30-2010, 03:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And put <span style='font-size: 17pt'>their cash</span> on the line and assume the risk. </div></div>

is it their own money?

Q </div></div>

If you believe in free markets the answer is yes.

If you believe in statism the answer is no.

LWW

Qtec
11-30-2010, 06:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever noticed how Q sees unfettered capitalism as the reason for the failure of all these socialist/fascist economies?
</div></div>

What failure? Iceland, Ireland, the UK and the USA are all in trouble because <span style='font-size: 17pt'><u>they had to bail out the banks.</u></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Irish deficit balloons <span style='font-size: 14pt'>after new bank bail-out</span>

If Anglo Irish had failed, it would have done huge damage to the economy, the government said.


The cost of bailing out the Republic of Ireland's stricken banks has risen to 45bn euros (£39bn), opening a huge hole in the Irish government's finances.

The increased cost will see the government run a budget deficit equivalent to 32% of GDP this year.

The cost includes a bill of up to 34bn euro to rescue the worst-hit lender, Anglo Irish Bank. </div></div>

Another.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Michael Noonan, Fine Gael's finance spokesman, second left, with (foreground) Enda Kenny, the party's leader, considering the government's four-year budget blueprint in Dublin last week. Photograph: Niall Carson/PA

Ireland was plunged into fresh turmoil today amid fierce recriminations over the terms and conditions of the €85bn (£72bn) bailout of the Republic's public finances and banks.

Fine Gael, the main opposition party, said it has not yet decided whether to back next week's crucial budget after reports that it was prepared to torpedo the swingeing €6bn in cuts tabled by its Fianna Fáil/Green coalition rivals.

Fine Gael's finance spokesman, Michael Noonan, denounced the conditions imposed by the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank on Sunday. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Noonan was particularly angry over the IMF/EU insistence that Ireland pay €17bn out of its national pension fund to shore up the country's banks and drive down its national debt.

"I believe that the negotiators on the Irish side were soft," he told the Irish Times. "They have given up €17.5bn of our own resources in sacrificing all of the national pension reserve fund. The fund has been cleaned out </span></div></div>






<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$144 Billion in Wall Street Bonuses: How Much Is That, Really?

When people talk about symbols of frustration during the recession, exorbitant employee paydays on Wall Street are a target of choice.

A report from The Wall Street Journal Tuesday morning won't help Wall Street dodge any more bullets. A survey of about 35 top financial institutions -- comprising banks, investment banks, hedge funds, money-management firms and securities exchanges -- estimates distribution of $144 billion in compensation and benefits for 2010. This amounts to a 4 percent increase from the $139 billion paid out in 2009, and potentially a whole lot more billionaire contenders for the title of wealthiest Americans.

The value of the compensation is certainly striking and begs the question: Where is the new financial reform and improved regulation of Wall Street? </div></div>


........and the GOP want to give them a tax cut!


Q.................GOP.......party of Joe-Six pack....?

Q

Stretch
11-30-2010, 07:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever noticed how Q sees unfettered capitalism as the reason for the failure of all these socialist/fascist economies?
</div></div>

What failure? Iceland, Ireland, the UK and the USA are all in trouble because <span style='font-size: 17pt'><u>they had to bail out the banks.</u></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Irish deficit balloons <span style='font-size: 14pt'>after new bank bail-out</span>

If Anglo Irish had failed, it would have done huge damage to the economy, the government said.


The cost of bailing out the Republic of Ireland's stricken banks has risen to 45bn euros (£39bn), opening a huge hole in the Irish government's finances.

The increased cost will see the government run a budget deficit equivalent to 32% of GDP this year.

The cost includes a bill of up to 34bn euro to rescue the worst-hit lender, Anglo Irish Bank. </div></div>

Another.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Michael Noonan, Fine Gael's finance spokesman, second left, with (foreground) Enda Kenny, the party's leader, considering the government's four-year budget blueprint in Dublin last week. Photograph: Niall Carson/PA

Ireland was plunged into fresh turmoil today amid fierce recriminations over the terms and conditions of the €85bn (£72bn) bailout of the Republic's public finances and banks.

Fine Gael, the main opposition party, said it has not yet decided whether to back next week's crucial budget after reports that it was prepared to torpedo the swingeing €6bn in cuts tabled by its Fianna Fáil/Green coalition rivals.

Fine Gael's finance spokesman, Michael Noonan, denounced the conditions imposed by the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank on Sunday. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Noonan was particularly angry over the IMF/EU insistence that Ireland pay €17bn out of its national pension fund to shore up the country's banks and drive down its national debt.

"I believe that the negotiators on the Irish side were soft," he told the Irish Times. "They have given up €17.5bn of our own resources in sacrificing all of the national pension reserve fund. The fund has been cleaned out </span></div></div>






<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$144 Billion in Wall Street Bonuses: How Much Is That, Really?

When people talk about symbols of frustration during the recession, exorbitant employee paydays on Wall Street are a target of choice.

A report from The Wall Street Journal Tuesday morning won't help Wall Street dodge any more bullets. A survey of about 35 top financial institutions -- comprising banks, investment banks, hedge funds, money-management firms and securities exchanges -- estimates distribution of $144 billion in compensation and benefits for 2010. This amounts to a 4 percent increase from the $139 billion paid out in 2009, and potentially a whole lot more billionaire contenders for the title of wealthiest Americans.

The value of the compensation is certainly striking and begs the question: Where is the new financial reform and improved regulation of Wall Street? </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>........and the GOP want to give them a tax cut!


Q.................GOP.......party of Joe-Six pack....?

Q </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

GOP is the Party of Joe-six figure. St.

Gayle in MD
11-30-2010, 11:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever noticed how Q sees unfettered capitalism as the reason for the failure of all these socialist/fascist economies?
</div></div>

What failure? Iceland, Ireland, the UK and the USA are all in trouble because <span style='font-size: 17pt'><u>they had to bail out the banks.</u></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Irish deficit balloons <span style='font-size: 14pt'>after new bank bail-out</span>

If Anglo Irish had failed, it would have done huge damage to the economy, the government said.


The cost of bailing out the Republic of Ireland's stricken banks has risen to 45bn euros (£39bn), opening a huge hole in the Irish government's finances.

The increased cost will see the government run a budget deficit equivalent to 32% of GDP this year.

The cost includes a bill of up to 34bn euro to rescue the worst-hit lender, Anglo Irish Bank. </div></div>

Another.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Michael Noonan, Fine Gael's finance spokesman, second left, with (foreground) Enda Kenny, the party's leader, considering the government's four-year budget blueprint in Dublin last week. Photograph: Niall Carson/PA

Ireland was plunged into fresh turmoil today amid fierce recriminations over the terms and conditions of the €85bn (£72bn) bailout of the Republic's public finances and banks.

Fine Gael, the main opposition party, said it has not yet decided whether to back next week's crucial budget after reports that it was prepared to torpedo the swingeing €6bn in cuts tabled by its Fianna Fáil/Green coalition rivals.

Fine Gael's finance spokesman, Michael Noonan, denounced the conditions imposed by the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank on Sunday. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>Noonan was particularly angry over the IMF/EU insistence that Ireland pay €17bn out of its national pension fund to shore up the country's banks and drive down its national debt.

"I believe that the negotiators on the Irish side were soft," he told the Irish Times. "They have given up €17.5bn of our own resources in sacrificing all of the national pension reserve fund. The fund has been cleaned out </span></div></div>






<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$144 Billion in Wall Street Bonuses: How Much Is That, Really?

When people talk about symbols of frustration during the recession, exorbitant employee paydays on Wall Street are a target of choice.

A report from The Wall Street Journal Tuesday morning won't help Wall Street dodge any more bullets. A survey of about 35 top financial institutions -- comprising banks, investment banks, hedge funds, money-management firms and securities exchanges -- estimates distribution of $144 billion in compensation and benefits for 2010. This amounts to a 4 percent increase from the $139 billion paid out in 2009, and potentially a whole lot more billionaire contenders for the title of wealthiest Americans.

The value of the compensation is certainly striking and begs the question: Where is the new financial reform and improved regulation of Wall Street? </div></div>


........and the GOP want to give them a tax cut!


Q.................GOP.......party of Joe-Six pack....?

Q </div></div>

<span style="color: #CC0000">GOP, Grand Opportunist Perpetrators.

They're crooks, who protect crooks, and who get votes form Americans who admire Crooks. BUUUUUUT, ah hem, They're all Christian Crooks, so it's all good, LMAO!

After all of the proof of corporate corruption in the financial industry, which has hurt all of us here, and others around the world, yet the right STILL denies what everyone else in the world knows.

Too dumb to know the diference between stealing, and honor. Thieves are their heroes.

And you know, it was all because of Fannie and Freddie, and the poor! BWA HA HA HA!

That's about as stupid as it gets!</span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Chopstick
11-30-2010, 01:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And put <span style='font-size: 17pt'>their cash</span> on the line and assume the risk. </div></div>

is it their own money?

Q </div></div>

Yes. At least $25K minimum to be allowed to trade.