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cueball1950
09-03-2002, 10:31 PM
Charlie. Do you realize what your actions are doing to the pool world as we know it. or is it that you just do not care? You are turning every fan i know of against the UPA. Pool cannot survive if this keeps up. You will have fans boycotting UPA sanctioned events and most likely their sponsors. You are ruining the US OPEN itself. Is or was that your intention all along. What ever did Barry do to you to deserve this kind of treatment. I know you are trying to put rules into place to protect the players and i can even understand that. I have been around pool for over 40 years and i can tell you that i have never sen such going's on in my whole life. Please read not just this board. But read all the boards. Do these players that are boycotting the Open this year because of your not sanctioning it realize also how turned off the fans are. I for one am a big fan of many of them and i am slowly losing my respect for them over this. And i will bet alot of other fans are also. I know that if this is the kind of action is what i can expect from the UPA then i will never attend a UPA event again. I guess there are alot of fans that feel the same way i do. I have alot of respect for your playing ability but to be honest Charlie, i am losing my respect for you as a person and a promoter. I know that it will not bother you one bit how i feel but there are quite a few who feel as i do. Please reconsider giving Barry the time he needs as i requested in my other post. Which up to now you have not answered. I also realize that you may not even answer this one publicaly. Then Just email me @
cueball1950@hotmail.com ,,,with your response. Like i said before. If the basesall players and owners can reach agreement then you could also. If you do not want to sanction it. So be it. But do not let your players ruin it. I know they have a choice. But you should urge them to play and keep the integrity of the game going. You yourself should play also. it would be a big boost for the UPA if you played in it. It would show solidarity. Like i said in my other post, Don Mackey had his players boycott a 14.1 tournament a few years ago and it gave the game a black eye. So again. Please reconsider.....a loyal fan.....mike

Tom_In_Cincy
09-03-2002, 10:37 PM
Not only the fans.. but the sponsers.. something has got to give.. and it has to be the UPA.. and soon..

09-04-2002, 12:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cueball1950:</font><hr> Charlie. Do you realize what your actions are doing to the pool world as we know it. or is it that you just do not care? You are turning every fan i know of against the UPA. Pool cannot survive if this keeps up. You will have fans boycotting UPA sanctioned events and most likely their sponsors. You are ruining the US OPEN itself. Is or was that your intention all along. What ever did Barry do to you to deserve this kind of treatment. I know you are trying to put rules into place to protect the players and i can even understand that. I have been around pool for over 40 years and i can tell you that i have never sen such going's on in my whole life. Please read not just this board. But read all the boards. Do these players that are boycotting the Open this year because of your not sanctioning it realize also how turned off the fans are. I for one am a big fan of many of them and i am slowly losing my respect for them over this. And i will bet alot of other fans are also. I know that if this is the kind of action is what i can expect from the UPA then i will never attend a UPA event again. I guess there are alot of fans that feel the same way i do. I have alot of respect for your playing ability but to be honest Charlie, i am losing my respect for you as a person and a promoter. I know that it will not bother you one bit how i feel but there are quite a few who feel as i do. Please reconsider giving Barry the time he needs as i requested in my other post. Which up to now you have not answered. I also realize that you may not even answer this one publicaly. Then Just email me @
cueball1950@hotmail.com ,,,with your response. Like i said before. If the basesall players and owners can reach agreement then you could also. If you do not want to sanction it. So be it. But do not let your players ruin it. I know they have a choice. But you should urge them to play and keep the integrity of the game going. You yourself should play also. it would be a big boost for the UPA if you played in it. It would show solidarity. Like i said in my other post, Don Mackey had his players boycott a 14.1 tournament a few years ago and it gave the game a black eye. So again. Please reconsider.....a loyal fan.....mike <hr></blockquote>

Mike - Consider this scenario and if you could please give me an honest answer ...

What if all the players came, played, and then were not paid again?

What do you think?BS

Brady_Behrman
09-04-2002, 12:41 AM
CAN NOT, WILL NOT, AND WON'T HAPPEN..To sum it up..Sorry about the CAPS!

Thats All...

More to come soon..:-)

09-09-2002, 10:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cueball1950:</font><hr> Charlie. Do you realize what your actions are doing to the pool world as we know it. or is it that you just do not care? You are turning every fan i know of against the UPA. Pool cannot survive if this keeps up. You will have fans boycotting UPA sanctioned events and most likely their sponsors. You are ruining the US OPEN itself. Is or was that your intention all along. What ever did Barry do to you to deserve this kind of treatment. I know you are trying to put rules into place to protect the players and i can even understand that. I have been around pool for over 40 years and i can tell you that i have never sen such going's on in my whole life. Please read not just this board. But read all the boards. Do these players that are boycotting the Open this year because of your not sanctioning it realize also how turned off the fans are. I for one am a big fan of many of them and i am slowly losing my respect for them over this. And i will bet alot of other fans are also. I know that if this is the kind of action is what i can expect from the UPA then i will never attend a UPA event again. I guess there are alot of fans that feel the same way i do. I have alot of respect for your playing ability but to be honest Charlie, i am losing my respect for you as a person and a promoter. I know that it will not bother you one bit how i feel but there are quite a few who feel as i do. Please reconsider giving Barry the time he needs as i requested in my other post. Which up to now you have not answered. I also realize that you may not even answer this one publicaly. Then Just email me @
cueball1950@hotmail.com ,,,with your response. Like i said before. If the basesall players and owners can reach agreement then you could also. If you do not want to sanction it. So be it. But do not let your players ruin it. I know they have a choice. But you should urge them to play and keep the integrity of the game going. You yourself should play also. it would be a big boost for the UPA if you played in it. It would show solidarity. Like i said in my other post, Don Mackey had his players boycott a 14.1 tournament a few years ago and it gave the game a black eye. So again. Please reconsider.....a loyal fan.....mike <hr></blockquote>

Again I'll ask you the question -

What happens if they play and don't get paid ... again?BS

MikeM
09-09-2002, 10:39 PM
OK I'll type this slowly so you can follow...

They WERE paid, just less because due to an unprecedented tragedy so few fans came out the gate was too low to meet the guaranteed amounts.

To sum up:

They WERE paid.

Do you want to ask the question again?

Now this year with a chance to get Men's pro pool on more solid footing and enter new territory with PPV, the UPA instead of working with the promoter has dug it's feet in and jeopardized the success of the tournament on their own. They may have valid reasons to be upset, but sabotaging the tournament can in NO WAY help the UPA. They gain nothing, zip, zilch.

MM

09-09-2002, 11:11 PM
Howdy Folks,
Based on various postigs,it appears that CW is themost hated man in the pool world right now.Based on what I read in the posts,I deduce,that it is his personality that people are not liking.It is his tactic of playing slow,I did not like.I do not care for him.cheers
vagabond

ted harris
09-10-2002, 12:00 AM
Relax cueball...they cannot ruin the US Open. There are only a small number that are supposedly not going. Don't believe everything you read! This years open is going to have plenty of talent, along with, in my prediction, about 225 players.

09-10-2002, 01:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MikeM:</font><hr> OK I'll type this slowly so you can follow...

They WERE paid, just less because due to an unprecedented tragedy so few fans came out the gate was too low to meet the guaranteed amounts.

MM <hr></blockquote>

Look closely at what you say

they were paid, just less /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif this is ok?what's preventing this from happening again?

did you attend last year's event?probably not.check the archives for Brady's statement concerning the gate,I seem to remember the words 'well attended the last couple of days'
Oh that's right ... you're new to this board and had no idea what 9ball even was this time last year /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

what does 'guaranteed' mean to you? maybe, possibly?

guaranteed means that the funds are already there and not dependent upon anything.ask your banker if you're still not sure.

please do as you once said and not respond to anonymous posts.with your new found friends /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif,you're much better at talking key chains and such because it's obvious that you know little of pool.BS

09-10-2002, 02:45 AM
As long as the UPA sticks by their guns and sticks together they will be around for a long time. As the saying goes; United we stand, Divided we fall. As long as they stay united they will be fine. By trying to keep pool respectable they will eventually catch on with promotors and the general public who just want to see pool without sharking and headcases a la Earl Strickland. Stick to your guns UPA and prove all of these groupies with no lives wrong.

Lester
09-10-2002, 06:13 AM
Look closely at what you say

they were paid, just less /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif this is ok?what's preventing this from happening again?

did you attend last year's event?probably not.check the archives for Brady's statement concerning the gate,I seem to remember the words 'well attended the last couple of days'
Oh that's right ... you're new to this board and had no idea what 9ball even was this time last year /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

what does 'guaranteed' mean to you? maybe, possibly?

guaranteed means that the funds are already there and not dependent upon anything.ask your banker if you're still not sure.

please do as you once said and not respond to anonymous posts.with your new found friends /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif,you're much better at talking key chains and such because it's obvious that you know little of pool.BS

<hr></blockquote>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;BS, last years Open was a financial disaster. The terrorist attacks on 9/11 caused everyone to not want to travel at all. I understand ticket buyers who cancelled, were refunded some of their money. The players who won - still were paid. The event took a bath financially, and Barry ate the loss. I gotta tell ya, if I was running the Derby, I'd tell Charlie that the UPA is not welcome. Any individual player can play, but I wouldn't even enter into negotiations for UPA sanctioning, based on what he's done here with the Open. And BS, if you're so short-sighted as to not see what this does to our game, I don't blame you for posting as anonymous. ***Lester***

Wally_in_Cincy
09-10-2002, 07:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> As long as the UPA sticks by their guns and sticks together they will be around for a long time. As the saying goes; United we stand, Divided we fall. As long as they stay united they will be fine. By trying to keep pool respectable they will eventually catch on with promotors and the general public who just want to see pool without sharking and headcases a la Earl Strickland. Stick to your guns UPA and prove all of these groupies with no lives wrong. <hr></blockquote>

You're the one who sounds like a groupie.

MikeM
09-10-2002, 10:10 AM
BS (very appropriate),

As has been posted numerous times, by myself and others, Barry Behrman made a mistake by guaranteeing the purse for the 2001 Open. His rosy outlook of the US Open last year did not take into account a terrorist attack that would throw the world into shock. He had to break his agreement in order to stay solvent.

And YES, under the circumstances, less is OK. If the UPA had ANY class they would have worked with the promoter instead of crying like babies.

And this really isn't about pool, in case you hadn't noticed. It's a business matter. Do you understand the difference between a long term business relationship and short term gain? Do you know the history of the US Open and how Barry Behrman built it up over the years into the premier 9-ball tournament (my newfound friends had to tell me about this)? Can you see the wisdom of partnering with such a promoter of your sport? I know people from Manassas are slow so take your time and think it over.

Nothing is preventing this from happening again. Once again I ask you, how does a boycott improve this situation? What is the worst that could happen to UPA players if they play? They could perform well and get less than the stated payouts? What's the worse that can happen if they boycott? They could destroy the biggest and best 9-ball tournament in the country and alienate many, many pool fans. What do they have to gain? Will Cahrlie Williams jump on his soapbox and proclaim "See what power I have, now no one will ever try to take risks and get pool on pay-per-view again"?

If the Open is gone next year who is going to fill that void? The UPA? Their first attempt should be ample evidence that they need the Barry Behrmans of the world to help them make a living.

BTW, anytime you want to crawl out of your anonymous hole in Manassas, I have a keychain for you, maybe you can even teach me something about 9 ball./ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

MM

Wally_in_Cincy
09-10-2002, 10:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>
they were paid, just less /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif this is ok?
<hr></blockquote>

Considering the extraordinary circumstances that week, yes, less is OK. In case you forgot what happened that week you might want to turn on the TV tomorrow. I'm sure the subject might come up.

09-10-2002, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Anonymous:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;
they were paid, just less /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif this is ok?
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Considering the extraordinary circumstances that week, yes, less is OK. In case you forgot what happened that week you might want to turn on the TV tomorrow. I'm sure the subject might come up. <hr></blockquote>

I agree with you Wally but imo there were large problems with the Open before 9-11.The sh_t was about to hit the fan regardless of any world event.

Take this into consideration,there were 280? some players at the 2000 event.Why were there maybe 200 players in 2001.Did these 80 players know what was about to happen the week of 9-11?Of course not.Many already knew of problems with the promoters of the Masters and the Open.You can speculate all you want why Efren hasn't been back since the Masters but it took quite a while to satisfy his check.Did 9-11 have something to do with this?

I'm torn as well over this matter of the Open and the UPA.This is definitely huge with the PPV but all CW ultimately wanted was to insure that 'Barry's Guaranteed' was indeed guaranteed.

Guess what?No can do.He didn't want to post and probably didn't have it imo.All the UPA asked was to put up the money so that under any circumstances this would not happen again?

What's wrong or right about that?

So where's the guarantee?It's obviously just a promise and promises,I hear,are made to be broken.

Some of the non-business people need to wake up and smell the coffee because imo it's simply just that ...a matter of business.BS

09-10-2002, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MikeM:</font><hr>
As has been posted numerous times, by myself and others, Barry Behrman made a mistake by guaranteeing the purse for the 2001 Open. He had to break his agreement in order to stay solvent.

Nothing is preventing this from happening again. <hr></blockquote>

Well for once you're correct.Nothing is preventing this from happening again because they are not posting as the UPA asked and as Barry had originally agreed to earlier in the year.

I hate to bring this to your attention but didn't he 'guarantee' this years event also /ccboard/images/icons/crazy.gifBS

cheesemouse
09-10-2002, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> As long as the UPA sticks by their guns and sticks together they will be around for a long time. As the saying goes; United we stand, Divided we fall. As long as they stay united they will be fine. By trying to keep pool respectable they will eventually catch on with promotors and the general public who just want to see pool without sharking and headcases a la Earl Strickland. Stick to your guns UPA and prove all of these groupies with no lives wrong. <hr></blockquote>

If I was putting on my 27th annual pool event and then some infintile pinheads presented me with a ten page contract manifesto that in effect gives them control of 'my' tournament, a tournament with prestige world wide and that took years of blood, sweat and tears to build I would bust out in fit of laughter that only paramedics could bring me out of...when the pinheads left my office I would say who "who farted?"......

MikeM
09-10-2002, 01:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>
I hate to bring this to your attention but didn't he 'guarantee' this years event also /ccboard/images/icons/crazy.gifBS
<hr></blockquote>

No, he did not. The word guarantee is not in this year's promotions. Lesson learned. That was the word the UPA was hung up on last year.

I wish that Barry had kept his word and been able to post up the money this time around. It would have made things so much easier. But, if you read between the lines, an opportunity to get the final on PPV came up and he went for it. This led to a shortage of cash to post to escrow and he missed the deadline.

Now if you're the UPA what would you do? If you were interested in the long term interest of the sport you might try to work out a deal whereby you would waive the escrow requirement in return for, oh say, a cut of the PPV and give your organization's full support to the promoter so that the PPV has the best chance to succeed. This shows goodwill, a willingness to be flexible and cooperate for the good of the game. It sends a message to anyone who might be interested in investing in the sport that there is some intelligence and business savvy in the pool community. It gets you great PR among the fans and shows your members that you know what you're doing.

Or...you could cry and take your stick and go home.

There is a definite need for the players to have a voice in the business side of pool, but it has to be an intelligent one or it's just a waste of time.

I don't deliver to Manassas, but you know where to find me./ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

MM

Vicki
09-10-2002, 02:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Anonymous:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; As long as the UPA sticks by their guns and sticks together they will be around for a long time. As the saying goes; United we stand, Divided we fall. As long as they stay united they will be fine. By trying to keep pool respectable they will eventually catch on with promotors and the general public who just want to see pool without sharking and headcases a la Earl Strickland. Stick to your guns UPA and prove all of these groupies with no lives wrong. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If I was putting on my 27th annual pool event and then some infintile pinheads presented me with a ten page contract manifesto that in effect gives them control of 'my' tournament, a tournament with prestige world wide and that took years of blood, sweat and tears to build I would bust out in fit of laughter that only paramedics could bring me out of...when the pinheads left my office I would say who "who farted?"...... <hr></blockquote>

You hit the nail on the head here. I think the UPA did get laughed out of the US Open. I don't think the Behrman's ever wanted sanctioning by the UPA. I think they were trying to have good realtions but to the best of my knowledge, the UPA went to the US Open, not the other way around. The UPA announced that they would not be sanctioning the US Open but did the US Open ever ask for that, so called, privilege? Not that I recall.

Vicki