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LWW
01-04-2011, 03:13 PM
Why won't these greedy US capitalist pig dogs understand that dear leader only has their best interests at heart?

Why can't they be happy with the table scraps the state allows them to receive from the bankrupt cupboard?

Don't they notice the citizens of Greece who are in the streets protesting their love for the state?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People’s retirement savings are a convenient source of revenue for governments that don’t want to reduce spending or make privatizations. As most pension schemes in Europe are organised by the state, European ministers of finance have a facilitated access to the savings accumulated there, and it is only logical that they try to get a hold of this money for their own ends. In recent weeks I have noted five such attempts: Three situations concern private personal savings; two others refer to national funds.

The Adam Smith Institute is the UK's leading innovator of free-market economic and social policies. Politically independent and non-profit, the Institute promotes its ideas through reports, briefings, events, media appearances, and its website and blog.

The most striking example is Hungary, where last month the government made the citizens an offer they could not refuse. They could either remit their individual retirement savings to the state, or lose the right to the basic state pension (but still have an obligation to pay contributions for it). In this extortionate way, the government wants to gain control over $14bn of individual retirement savings.

The Bulgarian government has come up with a similar idea. $300m of private early retirement savings was supposed to be transferred to the state pension scheme. The government gave way after trade unions protested and finally only about 20% of the original plans were implemented.

A slightly less drastic situation is developing in Poland. The government wants to transfer of 1/3 of future contributions from individual retirement accounts to the state-run social security system. Since this system does not back its liabilities with stocks or even bonds, the money taken away from the savers will go directly to the state treasury and savers will lose about $2.3bn a year. The Polish government is more generous than the Hungarian one, but only because it wants to seize just 1/3 of the future savings and also allows the citizens to keep the money accumulated so far.

The fourth example is Ireland. In 2001, the National Pension Reserve Fund was brought into existence for the purpose of supporting pensions of the Irish people in the years 2025-2050. The scheme was also supposed to provide for the pensions of some public sector employees (mainly university staff). However, in March 2009, the Irish government earmarked €4bn from this fund for rescuing banks. In November 2010, the remaining savings of €2.5bn was seized to support the bailout of the rest of the country.

The final example is France. In November, the French parliament decided to earmark €33bn from the national reserve pension fund FRR to reduce the short-term pension scheme deficit. In this way, the retirement savings intended for the years 2020-2040 will be used earlier, that is in the years 2011-2024, and the government will spend the saved up resources on other purposes.

It looks like although the governments are able to enforce general participation in pension schemes, they do not seem to be the best guardians of the money accumulated there.

The table below is a summary of the discussed fiscal-retirement situations (source):

*These figures do not include the costs of higher taxes, price inflation and low interest rates, which additionally devaluate retirement savings. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Adam-Smith-Institute-Blog/2011/0102/European-nations-begin-seizing-private-pensions)

LWW

Sev
01-04-2011, 05:34 PM
Got to love government theft.

Qtec
01-05-2011, 01:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Hungarian government Wednesday approved a set of measures to force Hungarians back into the state’s pension scheme and make life more difficult for any surviving private pension funds. The measures are aimed at helping the country meet strict budget deficit targets set by the European Union.

Those Hungarians who decide not to return fully to the state’s pension scheme from their private pension funds <span style='font-size: 14pt'>will lose their right to the portion of the state pension they would have received based on future contributions,</span> Economy Minister Gyorgy Matolcsy said.

Hungarians will have until Jan. 31, 2011, to decide whether they opt to return fully to the state’s pay-as-you-go pension regime. Only the private pension fund members who wish to remain in their respective pension funds will need to express their wish. Those who don’t do that will automatically return to the state scheme.

“They have two options: they either stay or decide to return, [and] both decisions have their consequences,” Matolcsy said at a press conference in parliament after a government meeting.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>The assets of those who decide to return to the state scheme will be kept in individual accounts and will remain inheritable by the spouse, Mr. Matolcsy said.</span>

Hungary has a pay-as-you-go state pension scheme with a mandatory private pension-fund regime complementing it, as a result of a pension-system reform in 1997. Voluntary payments into private pension funds are also possible, but they have been negligible compared with the rest of the system.

Most Hungarians of working age are members of a private pension fund. The savings of those three million or so people total 2.8 trillion forints ($14.2 billion), or about 10% of Hungary’s gross domestic product. One half of the amount is invested into foreign and Hungarian stocks and the other half in government bonds.

<u>Under the current regime, private pension fund members were to receive 70% of their future pension from the state and 30% from the proceeds based on personal savings in private pension funds.</u> The system was designed to boost domestic savings and produce a sense of higher personal self-sustainment. The government guaranteed to top up the amount to be received from the private pension fund should that amount fall short of the 30% portion of the 100% pension amount </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got to love government theft. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>The assets of those who decide to return to the state scheme <span style="color: #990000">will be kept in individual accounts and will remain inheritable by the spouse</span>, Mr. Matolcsy said.</span> </div></div>


Q.........not that I agree with it.

eg8r
01-05-2011, 08:06 AM
I don't agree with it at all. It is theft no doubt.

eg8r

Chopstick
01-05-2011, 12:17 PM
<span style="color: #000099">I'm surprised you missed this one.</span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Argentina nationalizes "401(k)" private retirement accounts--is the USA next?</span>


I am voting for Obama, but I can easily see this happening someday in the USA--confiscation of private assets by the US government to "protect" the citizen. Of course, there would be no violation of the constitution (technically) since the assets will still be "yours" but "managed" (spent) by Congress. You read it here first. Don't laugh, it's very, very possible. A.S.

OCTOBER 22, 2008
Argentina Makes Grab for Pensions Amid Crisis
By MATT MOFFETT (Wall Street Journal)

BUENOS AIRES -- Hemmed in by the global financial squeeze and commodities slump, Argentina's leftist government has seemingly found a novel way to find the money to stay afloat: cracking open the piggybank of the nation's private pension system.

The move came as wealthy nations unveiled fresh steps to fight the credit crunch. The U.S. Federal Reserve said it would bolster money-market funds, which have faced withdrawals, by lending as much as $540 billion to the industry. France said it would inject $14 billion into six banks on condition they agree to increase their lending. In a sign banks were a little more willing to lend to each other, the London interbank offered rate, a benchmark for many business and consumer loans, again declined.

Argentine President Cristina Kirchner said the move to take over the private pension system was aimed at protecting investors from losses resulting from global market turmoil. Funds in the system, which is parallel to a government pension system, are administered by financial firms. The private system has about $30 billion in assets and generates about $5 billion in new contributions each year.

While no one knows for sure what the government would do with the private system, economists said nationalization would let the government raid new pension contributions to cover short-term debts due in coming years.

It's not your money. It's the states money. (http://www.marketwatch.com/Community/groups/usgeopolitics-solutions/topics/argentina-nationalizes-401k-private-retirement)

<span style="color: #000099">I came across this when the former democratic congress,(you know, the group that just got the collective boot in their nether regions) was discussing proposals to do the same thing and they wanted your bank accounts too.</span>

Qtec
01-06-2011, 02:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BUENOS AIRES -- Hemmed in by the global financial squeeze and commodities slump, Argentina's leftist government has seemingly found a novel way to find the money to stay afloat: cracking open the piggybank of the nation's private pension system. </div></div>

Hasn't the US Govt been doing that for years?

LWW
01-06-2011, 04:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>The assets of those who decide to return to the state scheme <span style="color: #990000">will be kept in individual accounts and will remain inheritable by the spouse</span>, Mr. Matolcsy said.</span> </div></div>


Q.........not that I agree with it. </div></div>

Why are you saying you don't agree with it ... you have been the biggest advocate of an inheritance tax.
Or are you disagreeing with the state allowing the funds to be inherited?

Yes, the doublethink is strong in you Snoopy.

LWW

Chopstick
01-06-2011, 01:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BUENOS AIRES -- Hemmed in by the global financial squeeze and commodities slump, Argentina's leftist government has seemingly found a novel way to find the money to stay afloat: cracking open the piggybank of the nation's private pension system. </div></div>

Hasn't the US Govt been doing that for years?

</div></div>

Only Social Security. What Argentina did and what the democrats wanted to do is take over everyone's personal retirement 401Ks and IRAs. The state would just leave an IOU in your account and spend the money as they wanted to.

LWW
01-06-2011, 03:43 PM
This has been discussed by the statists here.

Another leftist tax scam that is on the drawing board is imputed income.

The way that works is if you have a $100K home and a $20K car paid for, then you are "SAVING" about $1,200.00 monthly from someone who acted lest responsibly ... hence you would be forced to pay income tax on the $14,400.00 a year you aren't spending.

LWW

Chopstick
01-07-2011, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been discussed by the statists here.

Another leftist tax scam that is on the drawing board is imputed income.

The way that works is if you have a $100K home and a $20K car paid for, then you are "SAVING" about $1,200.00 monthly from someone who acted lest responsibly ... hence you would be forced to pay income tax on the $14,400.00 a year you aren't spending.

LWW </div></div>

I haven't heard about that one. I'll check it out.